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$20K reached, thank you!

I am thinking for the next generation. This ten tribal chiefs fighting not only a giant party but also among themselves rubbish must be stopped before any truly sane democracy can be founded in Singapore with two or three parties with roughly comparable influence. How can there be ten different ideas on how to run a small country like Singapore? Singapore has ten or more small opposition parties not because of ideas, but because of egoistic idiots wanting to be secretary-generals or chairmen.

Maybe you should also consider the fact that by the time your above scenario comes, singapore could already be 70% PRCS, 30% true blue singaporeans.

look around you now and compare that 4 years ago, how many chinese swarmed here in just 4 years.

would you, a true blue singaporean, even be considered a majority the next time you are given a chance to vote??

are you so sure the next time you can vote is 4 years later and not 12 years later?

think again.
 
Maybe you should also consider the fact that by the time your above scenario comes, singapore could already be 70% PRCS, 30% true blue singaporeans.

look around you now and compare that 4 years ago, how many chinese swarmed here in just 4 years.

would you, a true blue singaporean, even be considered a majority the next time you are given a chance to vote??

are you so sure the next time you can vote is 4 years later and not 12 years later?

think again.
Hehe,good point,but I am praying that M LKY would suddenly have a dream and order the whole FT strategy be changed.

Dreaming?but fr his track record,it is above 50% possibility.
 
Hehe,good point,but I am praying that M LKY would suddenly has a dream and order the whole FT strategy be changed.

Dreaming?but fr his track record,it is above 50% possibility.

did you see the post in TR about the advertisement in China ? they are almost like begging chinese to come take up CITIZENSHIP (NOT PR) and its not hard. 2 years of working here! thats what that advert promised

I dun really think LKY will change this policy. these new citizens would more likely to vote for the PAP, and of coz, the richer PRCs are here to buy the HDB flats, condos etc to maintain high GDP. if you examine why this FT policy is in place in the first place, a "U turn" is very unlikely.

now if what that advert say is true, and by the time we can vote again, are we still majority? would china chinese HAVE THEIR OWN PARTY AND POPULAR AMONG THE NEW IMMIGRANTS?

Would a heavy weight minister even be a born and grew up in Shanghai china man in 4 years time?
 
did you see the post in TR about the advertisement in China ? they are almost like begging chinese to come take up CITIZENSHIP (NOT PR) and its not hard. 2 years of working here! thats what that advert promised

I dun really think LKY will change this policy. these new citizens would more likely to vote for the PAP, and of coz, the richer PRCs are here to buy the HDB flats, condos etc to maintain high GDP. if you examine why this FT policy is in place in the first place, a "U turn" is very unlikely.

now if what that advert say is true, and by the time we can vote again, are we still majority? would china chinese HAVE THEIR OWN PARTY AND POPULAR AMONG THE NEW IMMIGRANTS?

Would a heavy weight minister even be a born and grew up in Shanghai china man in 4 years time?
LKY is a very clever man,no doubt he wayangs hell of a lot,but basically he maintains a logical mind.And of course at this stage he & his family is above every one & every thing else.

As I said,I wouldnt rule out he should change but we shall see.

In fact,to get 1 million out of 1300 millions is not so difficult!If no change in policy,Sinkies would become below 30% in Sinkapore.
 
That has always been my thinking on the matter too. Have never been really sold to the idea that any opposition is good. That idea will hurt the opposition in the long run.

You have to think of elections as a marathon and not a sprint. No point winning the first 400 meters but screwing up the remaining 41.7 km so badly people actually get turned off from politics altogether.

At least you're honest as to what parties u will and will not vote for.



I think it is such a mindset that is causing more and more splits in the opposition.

People rejected by NSP, SDP, WP etc. or reject them because they cannot be Chairman or Sec-Gen, end up forming their own parties exactly because a lot of people like me and us say any opposition is good.

The result is 8 to 10 opposition parties contesting against PAP and more 3-corner possibilities.

After hearing that yet another new party may be registered by this year, I'm changing my mind and spoil my vote if my ward is contested by a kuchi kurap opposition.
 
As a politician,Kenneth Jeyaretnam did the right thing in supporting Dr.Chee.

This admirable act reflects the courage and integrity of someone who dares to help the cause without fear of incurring the wrath of the “authority” when other opposition leaders choose to look away.

It is about whether one should be punished so harshly as in heavy fines just merely for selling one’s political party newsletter “without a permit”.Especially when such sales have been conducted by various political parties in Singapore since time immemorial.

As a former opposition candidate with the SDP and later NSP,I had been through countless such sales.However,we were mostly free of trouble(despite some “sales pitching”during sales).

So the question is why this time round when Dr.Chee of SDP is charged and fined a hefty amount,the other opposition parties (except RP) have decided to keep silent or steer clear.
What if they are next to be charged similarly and barred from the General Elections just like Dr.Chee?

Instead of standing in solidarity against any act of unreasonable punishment by the police or courts,the opposition parties have restrained their due response.

Could it really due to fear of the all powerful incumbent PAP government? If so,then they should not even pretend to oppose at all.If it is due to differences in ideologies or approach, the excuse becomes lame because no true politician should
overlook an unreasonable treatment just simply because he is glad to be “left off the hook”.

Just like the analogy of some sheperds in a village being rampaged by a fox which hunts their sheep for food.The sheperds have only two options: one is to protect its sheep from being seen around,the next is to cooperate among themselves to hunt down the fox to stop the menace.

I sincerely hope that all opposition parties realise the power of standing together for a greater common cause to serve Singaporeans instead of trying to get into parliament by “playing safe” in not offending PAP.

Politics is afterall about “standing up” when things are not right and definitely not just “shutting up” all the time…

.

Lim Tung Hee

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http://www.temasekreview.com/2011/0...am-did-the-right-thing-in-supporting-dr-chee/
 
Maybe you should also consider the fact that by the time your above scenario comes, singapore could already be 70% PRCS, 30% true blue singaporeans.

That's exactly why we must get rid of these tribal chiefs. They're there to ensure PAP win all the time. Once all of them are out with one or two better opposition parties remaining, then will there be a better future.
 
You claim to support democracy and yet you deny the rights of others for freedom of expression

is that how SDP really works?

So actually SDP is not Singapore Democratic Party but Singapore Domination Party?


I don't agree with your view on SDP but as far as tonychat is concerned I think we both can agree he is F.O.S. I wish he were a PAP supporter. Imagine how many PAP supporters he will put off.
 
I don't agree with your view on SDP but as far as tonychat is concerned I think we both can agree he is F.O.S. I wish he were a PAP supporter. Imagine how many PAP supporters he will put off.

Power Quote.... place him in PAP.... 50% vote will go haywire!!!:p
 
LKY is a very clever man,no doubt he wayangs hell of a lot,but basically he maintains a logical mind.And of course at this stage he & his family is above every one & every thing else.

As I said,I wouldnt rule out he should change but we shall see.

In fact,to get 1 million out of 1300 millions is not so difficult!If no change in policy,Sinkies would become below 30% in Sinkapore.

Of course LKY is a clever man, but he clever for himself, not for me and you

you should search on the web about an article about KY's fallacies, and think about the things he have done (not say, because its all bullsh*t) since he join PAP.

it's always his interests first, then make it sounds like its for us. its always not just a one man job by him, but always say until he is the singapore's savior

i put myself in his shoes now, and mimicking his behavior and thinking since the time he is still a handsome young man, i can only see more and more PRCs coming to singapore
 
Power Quote.... place him in PAP.... 50% vote will go haywire!!!:p
There are many Harbans Singhs in this forum lah,even Dr Chee also could be one,but so far as I think,Dr Chee is not!

But of course I cannot be sure,cannot rule out anything.

Never trust politicans any politician!
 
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Of course LKY is a clever man, but he clever for himself, not for me and you

you should search on the web about an article about KY's fallacies, and think about the things he have done (not say, because its all bullsh*t) since he join PAP.

it's always his interests first, then make it sounds like its for us. its always not just a one man job by him, but always say until he is the singapore's savior

i put myself in his shoes now, and mimicking his behavior and thinking since the time he is still a handsome young man, i can only see more and more PRCs coming to singapore
My friend,searching for the fallacies of MM LKY?

That is not my job,I do pick out some info along my life.

It is the job of the politician who wants his job,he must be more cunning,ruthless and more skilful than LKY,pr else he cant make it.

"Absolutely. This guy(mm lky) has an agenda behind every speech, comment and word that he expresses. If you look hard enough, you will find it."Quote Scroobal.
 
That's exactly why we must get rid of these tribal chiefs. They're there to ensure PAP win all the time. Once all of them are out with one or two better opposition parties remaining, then will there be a better future.

brother, with all due respect.

i am 37 now, i have NEVER voted in my whole fcuking life. i did my NS, combat enginner, thinking i am doing it for my country, but now a city state.

the scenario you are describing, to me it does not matter. why?

voters are not stupid! we have been screwed for far too long to afford to be stupid again.

if you think in a 3 corner fight, someone with no relevent background, no proper ideals and ideas is going to spoil the election for the opposition, then i would say, fellow singaporeans, you deserve to be fcuked for another 4 years. and maybe 12 more years since PAP got another strong mandate for a change into a more creative GRC system.

like i said before in another post in the same thread, singapore govt is BEGGING the chinese to come, please, go search for the TR article about how easy it is for a chinaman to get VOTING RIGHTS in singapore.

many things can happen in 4 years, and that is, if you still get to vote after 4 years. if you still get oppositions who are true blue singaporeans after 4 years.

like you said, any tom dick and harry is forming a party now, what makes you think the PRCs wont form a party? or even parties?

the change has to be this election, unless you want your son's NS buddy to be a PRC, his PC a PRC, his sgt a PRC, his english teacher a PRC, your neighbour a PRC, renting the HDB from another PRC.

maybe so far for all the election, you got to vote. congrats. but remember, this election could be your last. your only opposition choice for the next election (maybe 12 years later), could be a PRC
 
Never vote for people like these:

- GMS, thinks he's cleverer than LTK. Of course sane people in WP showed him their middle fingers and booted him out. Only idiots at NSP want him. Remember what's NSP? The party that tried to gatecrash Marine Parade GRC BE and lost their deposits.

- CTL, thinks he's clever than LKY, booted out of PAP to WP, still thinks he's cleverer than LTK. Booted out from WP to SDP, still thinks he's cleverer than CSJ, booted out with nowhere else to go being undesirable anywhere, except to start another party.

- CSJ, now this is a real clever man with an apparent agenda not to win, just to make noise and cause trouble, fly-trapping those ignorant but indignant against PAP.
 
My friend,searching for the fallacies of MM LKY?

That is not my job,I do pick out some info along my life.

It is the job of the politician who wants his job,he must be more cunning,ruthless and more skilful than LKY,pr else he cant make it.

"Absolutely. This guy(mm lky) has an agenda behind every speech, comment and word that he expresses. If you look hard enough, you will find it."Quote Scroobal.

the reason why i asked you to search for that article is not because i think its your job, its just that it seems like you felt LKY has ever done something for singapore, and is still trying to solve our problem.

he DID NOTHING for us. everything was for himself.
 
the reason why i asked you to search for that article is not because i think its your job, its just that it seems like you felt LKY has ever done something for singapore, and is still trying to solve our problem.

he DID NOTHING for us. everything was for himself.
Ow,That I cannot agree, in all honesty.

I started watching LKY since 1958,when I was in a Chinese primary school


But I agree that he did every thing for himself but there was a time when both(for him and for citizens) were not mutually exclusive,..

Now it seems it is.
 
Ow,That I cannot agree, in all honesty.

I started watching LKY since 1958,when I was in a Chinese primary school


But I agree that he did every thing for himself but there was a time when both(for him and for citizens) were not mutually exclusive,..

Now it seems it is.

haha, i know you wont agree, that was why i suggested you read that article about his fallacies.

but if you think its too much trouble, it's ok. i got many die hard LKY fans who actually supports his china man policies and will vote any PAP in, even WKS
 
haha, i know you wont agree, that was why i suggested you read that article about his fallacies.

but if you think its too much trouble, it's ok. i got many die hard LKY fans who actually supports his china man policies and will vote any PAP in, even WKS
Democracy -agree to disagree
 
Democracy -agree to disagree

Well, i have to let you read it. dun have to agree what it says. some of my friends will still vote for PAP after reading this.

ENjoy.
-------------

Monday, 31 January 2011
Dumping the fallacies LKY created
at 7:15:00 AM
Firstly, let me qualify that LKY did many good things for Singapore. He led a team of capable leaders to bring where Singapore is today. Any other man would have....well, done the same.

It is just that LKY has taken far, far more credit than he deserves. He is no god, nor deity, but just an ordinary man, who outwitted his adversaries. He was at the right place at the right time, and he capitalised those opportunities with shrewdness like a fox.

In other words, a lesser shrewd man would still have brought Singapore to where we are today, but taken much less credit for it.

Here are some of LKY's propagated fallacies that need to be ditched.



Fallacy #1 - LKY was charismatic

Ha ha. Those of you who are old enough to remember Lim Chin Siong, will know what I am talking about. I myself was born after his era, but I managed to dig up some enlightening facts about this fiery man.

There was a documentary aired by Discovery Channel, on the history of Singapore. It was a series of documentaries actually, and the feud between Lim Chin Siong and Lee Kuan Yew was discussed.

In the 1950s, it was Lim Chin Siong who commanded the respect of the masses. LKY was well..., just a spectator. What Lim could do, Lee could not. When Lim wanted the masses to demonstrate against the Brits, they did just that. With fiery speeches, he moved the masses. LKY was a Nobody, spelled with a capital "N".

What tilted the favour for LKY was the merger. It was planned that the only way to get rid of Lim was for Singapore to merge with Malaysia, putting pressure on the Tunku to lock Lim up.

Lee played his cards well. Lee pretended to work for Lim's release (the people's leader) after the merger. But by then, the position of PM of (autonomous) Singapore, under Malaysia, was already filled - by LKY, of course.

So it is really by wit, using the merger as an alibi rather than charisma, that Lee was made the PM of Singapore.

In another parallel event, we are also told that LKY was made PM of Singapore by a single vote by the Party Chairman, Toh Chin Chye. Of course Lee now tries to deny that event happened - because he wants all the glory to himself. Old Man wants all the glory to himself

It can be seen that it was due to his wit and shrewdness that he became PM. It hardly had anything to do with charisma, where he could move the masses on the ground, as what PAPpy would like us to believe.



Fallacy #2 - LKY led Singapore to prosperity even when we don't have natural resources

That's the perfect fairy-tale, isn't it? It is not a lie that Singapore has no natural resources. It is that it is not the whole truth either.

Singaporeans are bombarded since schools that the great LKY brought Singapore to where it is today, even though we lack all the natural resources.

What we are not told is that all the infrastructure that was needed to run and govern the country, was already in place for LKY when he became PM.

When we broke off from the merger, we already had all the infrastructure. We had well-developed roads, hospitals, fire department service, the police, airport, sea ports, schools, judicial courts, the various statutes and laws, even our own currency, and most important of all, the various ministries and govt agencies needed to govern a country - including parliament itself.

Singapore was already a thriving city (thanks to the Brits) in its own right, and LKY simply took over what was already an established city with trade pacts and commercial deals in place, and all the other necessary systems in good working order.

It is not like he and his team brought Singapore from zero to hero. Yet, LKY, being the narcissist he is, makes it look like he was the Great Man who against all odds, pulled this tiny nation that has no natural resources and means, to where we are today.

Besides being overly narcissistic, he is also insulting all the other parties (including the citizens) who have contributed one way or another, to make Singapore a success.



Fallacy #3 - LKY managed to keep Singaporeans united in spite of race tensions -

This is LKY's favourite. He likes to play the race card. He did it when Singapore was part of Malaysia, and he continued to do so decades after we broke off from the Federation.

Firstly, there were only two "race riots" where it involved the Chinese and Malays. Secondly, the Chinese were involved in more riots than the Malays. Thirdly, there were more riots in which the govt was the target, than there were riots where particular races were the target. History of Riots in Singapore - LKY's racist version has to be stopped

So why the emphasis that riots in Singapore has always been about race? Isn't this just a fallacy perpetuated by LKY, so that you would believe that he was able to handle a highly explosive situation, hence, elevating his status as a "great leader"?



Fallacy #4 - "We were kicked out"

Really? In LKY's eulogy (when Dr Goh Keng Swee passed away), he unwittingly let the cat out of the bag that it was the Singapore side who planned that we leave Malaysia - hence, putting to rest the lie that we were "kicked out" once and for all. Did LKY Lie We Were Kicked Out of Malaysia?

Besides unwittingly admitting he lied we were kicked out, the above shows that Singapore leaders were well prepared to go alone. So all this talk that we were "left in the lurch suddenly to fend for ourselves" is just humbug.



Fallacy #5 - The Great (Malay) Bogeyman from the North and South is out to get us! -

I leave this to the last because this fallacy is one that has been played the longest. This myth has been played since the 1960s till today. That's a good long half a century! (Hey, Old Man, move with the times!)

LKY and his PAPpy leaders have always said that our neighbours are out to attack us. They cite the tension during the Confrontation Period. But that issue was one Malay country (Indonesia) against another Malay country (Malaysia).

Indonesia was not too happy that Malaysia merged and assimilated Sabah and Sarawak. They saw it as Malaysia's expansionist plan, right at the doorstep of Indonesia's Kalimantan border. Singapore was targeted only because we were also part of Malaysia then.

However, LKY, the racist who always plays the race card, turned that Malay-Malay dispute into "a sea of Malays out to get us" scenario. With a magician's sleight hand, he deceives Singaporeans into believing that the Bogeyman out there is trying to eat us.

When the Confrontation Period was over, LKY would of course need to whip up more bogeymen. So in came the argument that the North will threaten to cut off their water supply to us.

Hello, old man, who are you trying to fool? Isn't it easier for Malaysia (and Indonesia) to just control their air and sea space to choke us? Every time a vessel or plane leaves or lands in Singapore, it somehow has to cross Indonesian or Malaysian air/sea space. All they have to do is to put up a high tax, or put up some security checks (in the guise of controlling terror) and all the best sea and air ports we have will be nothing but nice exhibits to look at.

With a high tax, we have to work hard to earn bucks, while their cash registers keep ringing endlessly. With stringent security checks, they not only slow down our operations, but also have an excuse to tax us for what they can say is needed to cover their security checks cost.

Cutting off water is an international crime which Malaysia would never do. But controlling air and sea space is legal. Yet, this Old Man tries to bluff Singaporeans about the water stuff. Hardy har har.

LKY has long known to be a racist. He played the race card in the 1960s and he is still playing it today, 50 years later.



Conclusion -

LKY is a shrewd politician. That, no one disputes. But when you say that he is a charismatic leader, one who could move the masses, that is hardly the truth. I am sure those from the Lim Chin Siong era will remember LKY as a wimp who stood by the sidelines, watching Chin Siong antagonizing the Brit govt with demonstrations after demonstrations, and riot after riot.

As for LKY's never ending race card play, that's about the only game he knows. He knows of no other way to play politics.

LKY is trying to deify himself before he dies. The hard truth about his book, The Hard Truth, is that in between the hard truths, there are hard lies embedded within.

Let's stop believing his lies before he dies.
 
Lots of people see dr chee and the way he is acting and straight away can identify his evilness, and craziness.

These people are really kids in the world of politics and domination. Under the all powerful and dominating PAP ,you see what they want you to see.

Anyone who is targeted for ISA like dr chee will experience peeing in his underwear. The targeting may be extend to your spouse family ,brothers, close relatives, friends and you will believe and scare that your kids will be next. You can choose to stay and develop craziness , desperation like dr chee or run away like a lot of others.

Dr chee was previously a high rank police superintendent or something,He gotten some kind of national young achiever awad . He clearly demostrated he has the ablilty to organise and win people by ousting mr chiam in SDP.

The dictator went go all out to destroy him, he was a real treat to PAP before.






you either
 
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