$20K reached, thank you!

[iFARKurMADER]

The only way for that to happen is for them to stand in 3 cornered fights which all the opposition members are avoiding. There was an interesting article a while back when the guy argued that this will force a natural selection and weaker and useless party will be forced out thus creating a single creditable and strong opposition party.

I think this is a good idea however it will take very long for this to happen, it'll take at least the next 4-5 elections for this to evolve. It would easily take at least 2 -3 elections to eliminate most of the ojokers and another 1-2 election to establish the reputation of the emerging new opposition. The question here is anyone willing to wait that long

The problem we face now is that the opposition parties are avoiding 3 corner fights at all cost and this is stopping the natural selection process. The alternative is for all the opposition to form a coalition and fight the PAP as a single huge party, I don't need to highlight the problems the oppositions have with each other(some within their own freaking party) to say that it's not possible right now

it's amazing to see people picking on opposition members when we know there is only less than 5 opposition in the parliament and

1) ERP keeps rising
2) PRC keeps coming
3) cost keeps rising
4) salary keeps dropping

it's like...we have a choice not to vote for opposition?

it's like you are living beside an about to erupt volcano and someone offers a car to fetch you away, and you say "i want to have a Royce to fetch me, if not, I RATHER STAY BESIDE THE VOLCANO AND DIE"

amazing...

 

[patrickv]

it's amazing to see people picking on opposition members when we know there is only less than 5 opposition in the parliament and

1) ERP keeps rising
2) PRC keeps coming
3) cost keeps rising
4) salary keeps dropping

it's like...we have a choice not to vote for opposition?


amazing...

this is exactly the reason why pap dogs are here. always trumpeting & repeating : oppo not good dun vote for them. oppo no good pls spoil your vote. now the newest pap doggie tagline : we want 3 corner fights.

 

[iFARKurMADER]

this is exactly the reason why pap dogs are here. always trumpeting & repeating : oppo not good dun vote for them. oppo no good pls spoil your vote. now the newest pap doggie tagline : we want 3 corner fights.

like what i always tell my friends, dun ever complain to me about costs, ERP, chinamen this and that, because when I ask who u vote for and your answer is "PAP" or "Spoilt vote"

i will fcuking point my finger at you and laugh.

 

[Char_Azn]

it's amazing to see people picking on opposition members when we know there is only less than 5 opposition in the parliament and

1) ERP keeps rising
2) PRC keeps coming
3) cost keeps rising
4) salary keeps dropping

it's like...we have a choice not to vote for opposition?

it's like you are living beside an about to erupt volcano and someone offers a car to fetch you away, and you say "i want to have a Royce to fetch me, if not, I RATHER STAY BESIDE THE VOLCANO AND DIE"

amazing...

And it's even more amazing how pple can complain about everything and don't use their brains before they talk

Does it mean that even if and opposition party puts a Monkey in that Ward you will be voting for that Monkey. Whats the point.

Scenario 1, 1 Monkey gets elected and makes a fool of himself in Parliament. The only end result would be he/she would totally destroy the reputation of all the opposition party and make it even harder for the opposition to ever get elected

Scenario 2. Even in the case of a freak result and the ruling party gets kicked out, what we have left is a bunch of Monkeys. How long do U think a bunch of Monkeys can stay in charge? They will be promptly disposed of in the next election, that's if most of us is lucky enough to still have a job, still have an economy and still have something to complain about. An economy takes decades to build up and as proven by the recent global economy crisis, takes just weeks to be destroyed. The public will lose even more confidence in them, subsequent elections would be even harder for them to win in the future that's if they were not already kicked out the country.

Singaporeans are no idiots. Which is why only opposition party members whom they deem competent gets elected. Jokers like Chee lose more votes every election. Only idiots would vote for oppositions if they field a bunch of jokers.

 

[kukubird58]

Only idiots would vote for oppositions if they field a bunch of jokers.

hahaha....I will be one of the idiots.

 

[patrickv]

Does it mean that even if and opposition party puts a Monkey in that Ward you will be voting for that Monkey. Whats the point.

Scenario 1, 1 Monkey gets elected and makes a fool of himself in Parliament. The only end result would be he/she would totally destroy the reputation of all the opposition party and make it even harder for the opposition to ever get elected

Scenario 2. Even in the case of a freak result and the ruling party gets kicked out, what we have left is a bunch of Monkeys. How long do U think a bunch of Monkeys can stay in charge? They will be promptly disposed of in the next election, that's if most of us is lucky enough to still have a job, still have an economy and still have something to complain about. An economy takes decades to build up and as proven by the recent global economy crisis, takes just weeks to be destroyed. The public will lose even QUOTE]

talk so much for what. i help u summarise. see the letters in red.

 

[Char_Azn]

hahaha....I will be one of the idiots.

I can actually come up with a really good example of a Joker who got elected, coincidentally, from my "favorite party" SDP. Ling How Doong

He was elected for 1 term and promptly got kicked out the next election losing by a significant margin. He barely got back his deposit in the last 2 elections.

So what did he managed to do during his time in Parliament, no one can remember any significant issue he brought up for the opposition, but everyone did remember his "Don't Talk Cock" comment in Parliament made towards, strangely enough, Chiam See Tong, a fellow opposition member who FYI is still incumbent, and still very well respected despite his age and illness

The most significant thing he did last election which I am sure is still fresh in many pple's minds is his complain on national TV that the lights at the counting stations are too bright

 

[iFARKurMADER]

And it's even more amazing how pple can complain about everything and don't use their brains before they talk

Does it mean that even if and opposition party puts a Monkey in that Ward you will be voting for that Monkey. Whats the point.

Scenario 1, 1 Monkey gets elected and makes a fool of himself in Parliament. The only end result would be he/she would totally destroy the reputation of all the opposition party and make it even harder for the opposition to ever get elected

Scenario 2. Even in the case of a freak result and the ruling party gets kicked out, what we have left is a bunch of Monkeys. How long do U think a bunch of Monkeys can stay in charge? They will be promptly disposed of in the next election, that's if most of us is lucky enough to still have a job, still have an economy and still have something to complain about. An economy takes decades to build up and as proven by the recent global economy crisis, takes just weeks to be destroyed. The public will lose even more confidence in them, subsequent elections would be even harder for them to win in the future that's if they were not already kicked out the country.

Singaporeans are no idiots. Which is why only opposition party members whom they deem competent gets elected. Jokers like Chee lose more votes every election. Only idiots would vote for oppositions if they field a bunch of jokers.

the thing is

1) you have never see that "monkey" in parliament before. you DO NOT KNOW if he is DEFINITELY going to make a fool of himself. and as much as people wants to condemn pple like CHee and GMS, how are they compared to Hairdo? WKS? Cow? LKY?

but something is for sure, and that is if PAP won majority again this time, you will have more monkeys not in parliament, but in your neighbourhood, in your office, in your HDB...china monkeys.

2) scenario 2: your points are valid IF the current government is already doing a good job, then there is grounds for comparison. but is the PAP doing a good job for us? or only for themselves? have we seen their books? have we seen the numbers in GIC and temasek? our CPF? how esle to open those books unless we have a more than 50% votes in the parliament?

to be frank, look at the PAP in the parliament now, how many monkeys do u see? how many people sleeping? how many silent monkeys? are they ALL REALLY BETTER OFF THAN CHEE? GMS? and whoever you guys wanna pick on?

 

[Char_Azn]

the thing is

1) you have never see that "monkey" in parliament before. you DO NOT KNOW if he is DEFINITELY going to make a fool of himself. and as much as people wants to condemn pple like CHee and GMS, how are they compared to Hairdo? WKS? Cow? LKY?

See post I just made

I can actually come up with a really good example of a Joker who got elected, coincidentally, from my "favorite party" SDP. Ling How Doong

He was elected for 1 term and promptly got kicked out the next election losing by a significant margin. He barely got back his deposit in the last 2 elections.

So what did he managed to do during his time in Parliament, no one can remember any significant issue he brought up for the opposition, but everyone did remember his "Don't Talk Cock" comment in Parliament made towards, strangely enough, Chiam See Tong, a fellow opposition member who FYI is still incumbent, and still very well respected despite his age and illness

The most significant thing he did last election which I am sure is still fresh in many pple's minds is his complain on national TV that the lights at the counting stations are too bright

 

[iFARKurMADER]

I can actually come up with a really good example of a Joker who got elected, coincidentally, from my "favorite party" SDP. Ling How Doong

He was elected for 1 term and promptly got kicked out the next election losing by a significant margin. He barely got back his deposit in the last 2 elections.

So what did he managed to do during his time in Parliament, no one can remember any significant issue he brought up for the opposition, but everyone did remember his "Don't Talk Cock" comment in Parliament made towards, strangely enough, Chiam See Tong, a fellow opposition member who FYI is still incumbent, and still very well respected despite his age and illness

The most significant thing he did last election which I am sure is still fresh in many pple's minds is his complain on national TV that the lights at the counting stations are too bright

please do not tell me you got the above mentioned info from our dear straits
and remember, they do not have any PR advisors like PAP does. i am so sure LKL and LKY has an expert teaching them how to smile in front of camera, what to say, WHAT NOT TO SAY.

maybe he really scuked, and he got voted out, fine

can u vote cow out? can u vote WKS out? can you vote LKY out?

and why can't you?

 

[kukubird58]

I can actually come up with a really good example of a Joker who got elected, coincidentally, from my "favorite party" SDP. Ling How Doong

hahaha...i agree about talk cock Ling....have said that about him before.
I will vote for any clowns for the reasons below:
1. Send signal to Papee.
2. there will not be so many idiots like me to send the clown into Parliament.
3. if fluke result occur, good luck to him but he will be out the next GE.

 

[Char_Azn]

please do not tell me you got the above mentioned info from our dear straits
and remember, they do not have any PR advisors like PAP does. i am so sure LKL and LKY has an expert teaching them how to smile in front of camera, what to say, WHAT NOT TO SAY.

maybe he really scuked, and he got voted out, fine

can u vote cow out? can u vote WKS out? can you vote LKY out?

and why can't you?

I am sure anyone with half a brain will either shut the hell up if they have nothing good to say or say something somewhat, NOT STUPID. The stuff was not "lies of ST" the joker Ling made the stupid Lights too bright comment on freaking national TV when interviewed by reporters

The Don't Talk Cock comment is famous and everyone knows it.

It's not about having scripted politically correct statements. Chiam and Low and sometimes even Sylvia Lim have consistently been able to make the PAP members look stupid. Ling on the other hand manages to make himself look stupid without even trying

 

[iFARKurMADER]

I am sure anyone with half a brain will either shut the hell up if they have nothing good to say or say something somewhat, NOT STUPID. The stuff was not "lies of ST" the joker Ling made the stupid Lights too bright comment on freaking national TV when interviewed by reporters

The Don't Talk Cock comment is famous and everyone knows it.

It's not about having scripted politically correct statements. Chiam and Low and sometimes even Sylvia Lim have consistently been able to make the PAP members look stupid. Ling on the other hand manages to make himself look stupid without even trying

my advice to you is vote for the PAP for more good years...that must be more important than people trying to make a difference looking stupid.

of coz, PAP look smart.

 

[Char_Azn]

my advice to you is vote for the PAP for more good years...that must be more important than people trying to make a difference looking stupid.

of coz, PAP look smart.

U still don't get the point. My point is vote for the opposition only if you think the opposition party member deserve a chance, that they are pple who can make a difference. Voting jokers into Parliament will not only not do any good for the opposition, it will in fact have the opposite effect as shown by Don't Talk Cock Ling.

Chee is another joker who will more likely then not destroy sense of credibility the opposition party members have in the eyes of Singaporeans. If he can do so much damage without actually getting elected, I can't even begin to imagine what he can do if he gets elected.

Politics and election if strip down to it's bare bones is nothing more then a popularity contest. It all boils down to making the other guy look stupid while trying not to look stupid yourself. The above 2 have consistently been able to self pwn with little to no interference from the ruling party. These are jokers who will do more harm then good to the opposition cause.

You need to take a good look at the candidate and think carefully, can this person contribute and not just vote any Monkey into Parliament. Doing so would do more harm then good. Voiding your vote rather then casting one for the Monkey is a wiser move then you make it out to be

 

[patrickv]

my advice to you is vote for the PAP for more good years...that must be more important than people trying to make a difference looking stupid.

of coz, PAP look smart.

no need to waste time trying to convince this charlatan. he is a certified, chop and confirmed pap dog. he will find ways and means to discredit the oppo. just fuck him up good good.

 

[iFARKurMADER]

U still don't get the point. My point is vote for the opposition only if you think the opposition party member deserve a chance, that they are pple who can make a difference. Voting jokers into Parliament will not only not do any good for the opposition, it will in fact have the opposite effect as shown by Don't Talk Cock Ling.

Chee is another joker who will more likely then not destroy sense of credibility the opposition party members have in the eyes of Singaporeans. If he can do so much damage without actually getting elected, I can't even begin to imagine what he can do if he gets elected.

Politics and election if strip down to it's bare bones is nothing more then a popularity contest. It all boils down to making the other guy look stupid while trying not to look stupid yourself. The above 2 have consistently been able to self pwn with little to no interference from the ruling party. These are jokers who will do more harm then good to the opposition cause.

You need to take a good look at the candidate and think carefully, can this person contribute and not just vote any Monkey into Parliament. Doing so would do more harm then good. Voiding your vote rather then casting one for the Monkey is a wiser move then you make it out to be

and you just dont get the point that half the people the parliament now, we did not vote them in? if people like WKS and khaw, hairdo, can be in the parliament, why not any opposition? you mean to tell me they DESERVE their place there?

Chee may made himself look bad to YOU, but saying he make the whole opposition look bad is really an overstatement. Did WKS, Khaw, hairdo made the whole PAP looked bad? it's interesting question is if yes, what happen to them? if no, then why could chee made the opposition look bad?

your ideals of

"can this person contribute and not just vote any Monkey into Parliament."

would be good in places with real long history of REAL democracy. given the

1) limited resources
2) limited funding
3) unable to change the GRC system

etc etc of the opposition, i would say what we have is already a blessing.

like i said,

1) you may not be able to vote ever again in the next election
2) the PRC could be the majority by the next election
3) your only choice of opposition for the next election could a PRC party.
4) your CPF could already be empty
5) ERP in front of your door
6) another few billions invested in funny companies

you want to take your chance and wait till that scenario comes, please.

what you need to understand is do we have the time to wait till your prefect scnarios comes...when our vote still can make a difference

 

[Char_Azn]

and you just dont get the point that half the people the parliament now, we did not vote them in? if people like WKS and khaw, hairdo, can be in the parliament, why not any opposition? you mean to tell me they DESERVE their place there?

Have you notice these are also the same pple who wasn't challenged during the last GE? Is it the voters fault for being stuck with them? It's up to the opposition party to field candidates for us to vote. Whether or not we vote for them is another matter all together

Also these "jokers" happen to have the benefit of being in the ruling party and being ministers. Translation, they have proven that they are able to do the job, whether or not they did a great job is of course subjective. The problem for the opposition however is that they have not proven themselves in the eye of the voters hence they have an extra step to make compared to the above. Having jokers ruin the reputation of the opposition isn't going to help them take that step up

Chee may made himself look bad to YOU, but saying he make the whole opposition look bad is really an overstatement. Did WKS, Khaw, hairdo made the whole PAP looked bad? it's interesting question is if yes, what happen to them? if no, then why could chee made the opposition look bad?

Do yourself a favor and go try this out, go ask your colleagues what they think of Chee. When I showed the link of Chee's 20K drive to a few of my colleagues, everyone's reaction was the same, they asked me it that was a joke, if that was guy crazy? And when I asked them whether they will vote for him, the reaction is all the same, everyone goes LOL!!!!! If that's not bad I don't know what is. And you assume everyone can tell between SDP, SDA or WP. The sad truth is that many of them don't. I've come across a lot of pple who knows CSJ but have no idea what party is from. That is the problem when 1 of them comes up with weird antics, it gets associated with the opposition in general rather then 1 weird party.

your ideals of

"can this person contribute and not just vote any Monkey into Parliament."

would be good in places with real long history of REAL democracy. given the

1) limited resources
2) limited funding
3) unable to change the GRC system

etc etc of the opposition, i would say what we have is already a blessing.

like i said,

1) you may not be able to vote ever again in the next election
2) the PRC could be the majority by the next election
3) your only choice of opposition for the next election could a PRC party.
4) your CPF could already be empty
5) ERP in front of your door
6) another few billions invested in funny companies

you want to take your chance and wait till that scenario comes, please.

what you need to understand is do we have the time to wait till your prefect scnarios comes...when our vote still can make a difference

Like I said, it will take years for a credible and strong opposition to emerge the fact that they are neither trying to compete against each other non banding together to form a stronger coalition translation, neither here nor there isn't helping.

The fastest alternative is for them to form a coalition and go up against the ruling party. This is however a flawed strategy, we just have to look across the causeway to see what happens if they decided to adopt this. The min the election ends, the opposition party in MY started fighting between each other. In the end, nothing has changed.

Political reforms are never something that happens in a day. The Western democracies have centuries to reach where they are now. We just got started. Whether you like it or not, it will still be some time before we see our opposition really challenging the ruling party. The opposition themselves need to figure out how to get there. The hantan kaki stances they've adopted have not worked out for the past 3 elections. They will need to start realizing that and start moving towards a new direction.

 

[Dreamer1]

Ah Char,

Wow,talk like a real expert.

"Political reforms are never something that happens in a day. The Western democracies have centuries to reach where they are now. We just got started. Whether you like it or not, it will still be some time before we see our opposition really challenging the ruling party. The opposition themselves need to figure out how to get there. The hantan kaki stances they've adopted have not worked out for the past 3 elections. They will need to start realizing that and start moving towards a new direction."

I just happen to receive an article that can answer yr points.

Guest Post: The Faulty Economic Development Model Behind America’s Support for Dictators (Instead of Democracies)
→ Washington’s Blog

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011...ort-for-dictators-instead-of-democracies.html

I hope our forummers here do enjoy it.

 

[silverfox@]

This year election is very important. More important than the past few ones. There are many looming issues like housing, inflation, taxes and I can only say that eventually PAP will still win.

However giving them a lower mandate is still possible to keep them in check and make them work harder. 3 notions.

1) Don't vote for PAP.
2) Vote for the right Opposition.
3) Neither are worthy, just spoil your vote.

 

[iFARKurMADER]

Have you notice these are also the same pple who wasn't challenged during the last GE? Is it the voters fault for being stuck with them? It's up to the opposition party to field candidates for us to vote. Whether or not we vote for them is another matter all together

Also these "jokers" happen to have the benefit of being in the ruling party and being ministers. Translation, they have proven that they are able to do the job, whether or not they did a great job is of course subjective. The problem for the opposition however is that they have not proven themselves in the eye of the voters hence they have an extra step to make compared to the above. Having jokers ruin the reputation of the opposition isn't going to help them take that step up



Do yourself a favor and go try this out, go ask your colleagues what they think of Chee. When I showed the link of Chee's 20K drive to a few of my colleagues, everyone's reaction was the same, they asked me it that was a joke, if that was guy crazy? And when I asked them whether they will vote for him, the reaction is all the same, everyone goes LOL!!!!! If that's not bad I don't know what is. And you assume everyone can tell between SDP, SDA or WP. The sad truth is that many of them don't. I've come across a lot of pple who knows CSJ but have no idea what party is from. That is the problem when 1 of them comes up with weird antics, it gets associated with the opposition in general rather then 1 weird party.




Like I said, it will take years for a credible and strong opposition to emerge the fact that they are neither trying to compete against each other non banding together to form a stronger coalition translation, neither here nor there isn't helping.

The fastest alternative is for them to form a coalition and go up against the ruling party. This is however a flawed strategy, we just have to look across the causeway to see what happens if they decided to adopt this. The min the election ends, the opposition party in MY started fighting between each other. In the end, nothing has changed.

Political reforms are never something that happens in a day. The Western democracies have centuries to reach where they are now. We just got started. Whether you like it or not, it will still be some time before we see our opposition really challenging the ruling party. The opposition themselves need to figure out how to get there. The hantan kaki stances they've adopted have not worked out for the past 3 elections. They will need to start realizing that and start moving towards a new direction.

with due respect, have you ever wondered why there are so little oppositions in singapore? and why so MANY people cant wait to jump to a tea session with our PM to join the PAP? dun talk about the GRC system, dun talk about the deposits, dun talk about biased media, dun talk about sueing your pants off when you speak your mind...it's people whom they try to help actually makes fun of them?

and maybe my friends are all different from yours, they are either politically "cold" OR they think Chee raised many good points, just not in the popular way.

of course, PAP ministers can do the job, but the point is are they doing it for you??? they are efficient, but what happens to the saving from the efficency?
are you even thinking that they are doing to job to SERVE you? and not to SCREW you?

political reforms are not formed overnight, but you have to start somewhere, and i said before, why it must be now...we are going to be the minority soon.

you can wait till you have PRC all around you then you start the long process for political reform, but sorry, I can't.