Is the Coronavirus as Deadly as They Say?

[LaoTze]

This is the ideal solution but if it was mandated governments would be accused of ageism and there is also the practical aspect of actually keeping the young and the old separated. EG a kid is living with his parents and a grandparents who will be forced to leave.

Grandparent will say house is theirs, they've lived there for 50 years and they are not going anywhere.

Kid will say that he is broke and has nowhere to go and can't afford to move out.

Kids will cough at parents and grandparents
problem solved

Forward this on your WhatsApp and make this go viral.
Get this onto the handphones of all in Singapore

VOTE OUT ALL THE MAGGOTS AND MAGGOTESS IN WHITE AND TURN STINKAPORE BACK INTO SINGAPORE
OR OUR KIDS END UP BECOMING SECURITY GUARDS TO BE KICKED IN FACE BY CECAs OR PANDA FOOD DELIVERIES OR PICKING UP CARDBOARDS OR SELLING TISSUE PAPER IN HAWKER CENTERS

And why Stinkapore got the GOLD Standard for wuhan control?

 

[cocobobo]

This is the ideal solution but if it was mandated governments would be accused of ageism and there is also the practical aspect of actually keeping the young and the old separated. EG a kid is living with his parents and a grandparents who will be forced to leave?

Grandparent will say house is theirs, they've lived there for 50 years and they are not going anywhere.

Kid will say that he is broke and has nowhere to go and can't afford to move out.

Then the intensive campaign should be focused on protecting the elderly while BAU for the rest.... how to isolate elderly properly,
risk management, how to monitor, using hotels for elderly, etc

 

[Froggy]

A colleague in Singapore took these photos of Raffles City Mall, Robinson's Departmental Store

 

[Hypocrite-The]

Italy has no choice. Their death rate was even higher than Wuhan - at a national level! What choice do they have?? LOL.

Italy moved too slow and allowed fucked up concepts of democracy and civil rights to undermine the entire operation at the beginning. As a result, they paid with their own lives. This is what libtardism does to societies. People are asked to die for the sake of an abstract concept that exists only in the head.

What is the demographics that died? Is it the old and sick mainly? If yes they would have died of the flu anyway

 

[Hypocrite-The]

Then the intensive campaign should be focused on protecting the elderly while BAU for the rest.... how to isolate elderly properly,
risk management, how to monitor, using hotels for elderly, etc

The world needs to soylent Green the old and the infirmed with critical illness. They are nothing but economic burdens to society and their families

 

[cocobobo]

let's see what happens in brazil. Its the one country left doing the herd-immunity thing.

 

[Leongsam]

What is the demographics that died? Is it the old and sick mainly? If yes they would have died of the flu anyway

The overall death rates may not have moved at all. People die daily. The only difference is that a higher number died at the same time and the system could not cope.

It's like a plane accident vs auto accidents. Plane accidents kill 350 in one go and are front page news. On the other hand auto accidents kill 1.4 million a year but we have become so immune to the sight of crushed bodies and broken skulls on the road that nobody seems to care unless they are directly involved in the crash.

They might make the middle pages if it's a slow news day and just a footnote if there is something more interesting happening at the time.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

What is the demographics that died? Is it the old and sick mainly? If yes they would have died of the flu anyway

There are new reports coming out of the US that the young are also dying from the WuFlu covid-19 disease. But they are still isolated deaths. Vast majority are the old and those with underlying chronic conditions.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

The overall death rates may not have moved at all. People die daily. The only difference is that a higher number died at the same time and the system could not cope.

That is the key difference. All the airplane and automobile deaths do not overwhelm the system. The covid-19 cases come in such a torrent that in all the developed countries (except Singapore -- huat ah!!), the healthcare system has been pushed to the brink or even beyond the brink. That is why ALL governments now agree that we must flatten the curve and address the issue by whatever means necessary - even if it means a partial lockdown or a complete lockdown.

If the healthcare system collapses, the whole country is finished and whatever the country has achieved in the past will be destroyed.

 

[nayr69sg]

That is the key difference. All the airplane and automobile deaths do not overwhelm the system. The covid-19 cases come in such a torrent that in all the developed countries (except Singapore -- huat ah!!), the healthcare system has been pushed to the brink or even beyond the brink. That is why ALL governments now agree that we must flatten the curve and address the issue by whatever means necessary - even if it means a partial lockdown or a complete lockdown.

If the healthcare system collapses, the whole country is finished and whatever the country has achieved in the past will be destroyed.

Aiyah the healthcare workers should just all go on strike.

Doctors nurses say fuck lah. You all dont appreciate? Want herd immunity. We give you herd immunity. All go home nobody working.

Government should indemnify the healthcare workers.

 

[Leongsam]

That is the key difference. All the airplane and automobile deaths do not overwhelm the system. The covid-19 cases come in such a torrent that in all the developed countries (except Singapore -- huat ah!!), the healthcare system has been pushed to the brink or even beyond the brink. That is why ALL governments now agree that we must flatten the curve and address the issue by whatever means necessary - even if it means a partial lockdown or a complete lockdown.

If the healthcare system collapses, the whole country is finished and whatever the country has achieved in the past will be destroyed.

Flattening the curve prolongs the economic devastation and makes the recovery a lot harder.

It would be better to swallow the bitter pill and by June 2020 it will be all over.

Those who are worried about their old farts can shelter them in safe place. Those who want to get rid of their elderly can do their best to infect them. Make it an individual call don't kill the whole economy.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

Aiyah the healthcare workers should just all go on strike.

My two cousins working in UK were talking about that. Completely insane there already.

 

[Leongsam]

Aiyah the healthcare workers should just all go on strike.

Doctors nurses say fuck lah. You all dont appreciate? Want herd immunity. We give you herd immunity. All go home nobody working.

Government should indemnify the healthcare workers.

It is not just an issue of overwhelming the system the health authorities are making biased calls because they are not the ones that are being put into economic hardship with their call to "flatten the curve". They are the ones who are financially secure and still getting paid.... at least for the time being until the whole system collapses in massive debt.

However there a millions more out there for whom flattening the curve would mean economic calamity ie business and life savings wiped out in a matter of months.

I am one of the fortunate ones who still has rental income, interest income, e-commerce income and sufficient assets to sit this thing out for more than a year. However most are not so lucky. One of my tenants is struggling. She works as a bar manager. I gave her a rent holiday. It will save her for a month but it won't save her forever.

She has no income. She has bills to pay. Electricity bill is $80 per month now. In winter it will shoot up to $200 per month. Where is the money going to come from? If she can't pay her electricity bill she'll freeze to death but of course it may not be classified as a Covid-19 death so I guess that is ok during this period. All other causes of death don't matter as they are not newsworthy.

All the health experts who are advising governments will of course err on the side of caution and forecast massive deaths if nothing is done. Better to make the wrong call and overforecast rather than to under forecast and lose your job.

In NZ the chief advisor came out with a possible figure of 100,000 deaths if a lockdown was not implemented. Of course he'd say that. He has a bob either way. If a lockdown is imposed and the deaths are way lower he takes credit. He can't be faulted for causing unnecessary panic by over forecasting because the actual death toll had nothing been done is unknown.

On the other hand if he tells the government that deaths should be manageable and it turns out he's wrong his ass is on the line and his reputation is stuffed for good in the medical world too.

You're a doctor how would you call it if you were asked to give your assessment of the situation in order guide government policy? I would most certainly present the worst case scenario based upon the existing data even though it is flawed. There are no penalties for you for over estimating. The penalties are paid by other industries that rely on economic activity while your salary relies on health issues which will always be there.

 

[nayr69sg]

It is not just an issue of overwhelming the system the health authorities are making biased calls because they are not the ones that are being put into economic hardship with their call to "flatten the curve". They are the ones who are financially secure and still getting paid.... at least for the time being until the whole system collapses in massive debt.

However there a millions more out there for whom flattening the curve would mean economic calamity ie business and life savings wiped out in a matter of months.

I am one of the fortunate ones who still has rental income, interest income, e-commerce income and sufficient assets to sit this thing out for more than a year. However most are not so lucky. One of my tenants is struggling. She works as a bar manager. I gave her a rent holiday. It will save her for a month but it won't save her forever.

She has no income. She has bills to pay. Electricity bill is $80 per month now. In winter it will shoot up to $200 per month. Where is the money going to come from? If she can't pay her electricity bill she'll freeze to death but of course it may not be classified as a Covid-19 death so I guess that is ok during this period. All other causes of death don't matter as they are not newsworthy.

All the health experts who are advising governments will of course err on the side of caution and forecast massive deaths if nothing is done. Better to make the wrong call and overforecast rather than to under forecast and lose your job.

In NZ the chief advisor came out with a possible figure of 100,000 deaths if a lockdown was not implemented. Of course he'd say that. He has a bob either way. If a lockdown is imposed and the deaths are way lower he takes credit. He can't be faulted for causing unnecessary panic by over forecasting because the actual death toll had nothing been done is unknown.

On the other hand if he tells the government that deaths should be manageable and it turns out he's wrong his ass is on the line and his reputation is stuffed for good in the medical world too.

You're a doctor how would you call it if you were asked to give your assessment of the situation in order guide government policy? I would most certainly present the worst case scenario based upon the existing data even though it is flawed. There are no penalties for you for over estimating. The penalties are paid by other industries that rely on economic activity while your salary relies on health issues which will always be there.

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Doctor always have to be the most conservative.

Because if we did not the fucking lawyers will come after us. Sue. People will complain to the College and want us struck off.

Hey it is the people who decide. Arent we all for "patient centred" care? "Patients First".

These days who the fuck would support doctor who is paternalistic. I am the doctor you listen to me! I say you do.

Fuck lah. People accept that. Instead it is Doctor you fucking listen to me the patient! I know best for my body! Who the fuck are you to tell me what to do?

Doctors are chihuahuas tied to a tree. I have said that for years.

Dont blame the doctors. We are all scared to death of patients. Like I said if you came out and said ok one time offer. Who wants to resign from the frontline now? No penalties. No sanctions.

I think more than half would go home and be with their families.

You want doctors to have the courage and strength to do what is truly best for people? Change the system. Install the paternalistic system again. And abolish colleges. Indemnify doctors from legal suits.

Yes you will then see doctors finally speaking their minds.

 

[ChanRasjid]

Italy total infection about 90,000; out of these, the death is 9000. The articles by the "experts" are silly. We don't care whether there have been other infections going undetected. The 9000 death is from the tested cases of 90,000 infection. So it is silly to try to argue against the mortality rate of 10% based on the Italy data. Of course, Italy might have a higher death figures as they don't have enough respirators.

Wuhan virus cannot be compared to seasonal flu with mortality rate of about 0.01%. How often do you read in the Straits Times people dying from the flu? Why we do not run out of respirators every April/May?

EDIT: There could also be death by corona virus going undetected as well.

Chan Rasjid

 

[ChanRasjid]

Italy total infection about 90,000; out of these, the death is 9000. The articles by the "experts" are silly. We don't care whether there have been other infections going undetected. The 9000 death is from the tested cases of 90,000 infection. So it is silly to try to argue against the mortality rate of 10% based on the Italy data. Of course, Italy might have a higher death figures as they don't have enough respirators.

Wuhan virus cannot be compared to seasonal flu with mortality rate of about 0.01%. How often do you read in the Straits Times people dying from the flu? Why we do not run out of respirators every April/May?

EDIT: There could also be death by corona virus going undetected as well.

Chan Rasjid

The 10% mortality rate for the corona virus is wrong.

The Italy death rate of 9000 is correct as any death with symptoms similar to Covid-19 would have been tested. The 90,000 infections comes only from the tested numbers; there could be many infections that have not been accounted. So the mortality rate of covid-19 should be below 10%, say 3% from other statistics. But a 3% is 300 times that of the seasonal flu at 0.01% mortality rate.

Chan Rasjid.

 

[nayr69sg]

The 10% mortality rate for the corona virus is wrong.

The Italy death rate of 9000 is correct as any death with symptoms similar to Covid-19 would have been tested. The 90,000 infections comes only from the tested numbers; there could be many infections that have not been accounted. So the mortality rate of covid-19 should be below 10%, say 3% from other statistics. But a 3% is 300 times that of the seasonal flu at 0.01% mortality rate.

Chan Rasjid.

Actually it is even lower.

If your healthcare system is functioning normally the mortality rate is 0.1%

If it is overwhelmed it is 3 to 5%.

 

[nayr69sg]

The virus could mutate as well. Making the mortality rate lower or higher.

Survival wise it is better for a virus to keep its host alive and thus can spread and replicate more.

So hopefully covid19 does that. Then we all can get it and all just have minor cold symptoms no need for ventilators.

 

[syed putra]

The flu and the new coronavirus have similar symptoms, but the coronavirus is far more deadly — here’s how the two compare

Business Insider
March 4, 2020

Medical staff with protective clothing work inside a ward specialized in receiving any person who may have been infected with coronavirus, at the Rajiv Ghandhi Government General hospital in Chennai, India, on January 29, 2020. P. Ravikumar/Reuters

• The flu and the new coronavirus have similar symptoms, but the coronavirus is far more fatal.
• Here’s how the mortality rates compare.
• For the latest case total and death toll, see Business Insider’s live updates here.
• Visit Business Insider’s homepage for more stories.

The coronavirus outbreak came in the middle of flu season in the northern hemisphere.
Because people who get the flu and COVID-19 – the disease caused by the coronavirus – experience some overlapping symptoms, many people are highlighting those similarities. Even President Donald Trump asked pharmaceutical execs if the flu vaccine could be used to stop the coronavirus.

​

But Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, the director-general of the World Health Organization (WHO), warned against taking such comparisons too far.
“This virus is not SARS, it’s not MERS, and it’s not influenza,” Ghebreyesus said in a press conference on Tuesday. “It is a unique virus with unique characteristics.”

​

The most crucial difference between the flu and the coronavirus is that the latter is far more deadly. Whereas approximately 0.1% of people who get the flu die, the coronavirus’ mortality rate is about 3.4%, the WHO confirmed on Tuesday.
How the mortality rates of flu and coronavirus compare
The novel coronavirus originated in Wuhan, China, in December and has since killed over 3,110 people and infected nearly 93,000. It is spread to at least 76 other countries. The US has confirmed more than 120 cases and nine deaths.
Older people are far more likely to die from the coronavirus than younger patients, and the same is true for flu – though not to the same extent.
Here’s how the mortality rates of the two compare, age bracket by age bracket:

Ruobing Su/Business InsiderThe flu kills thousands of people every year, but its mortality rate is low
Last year, 35,520,882 patients contracted the flu and 34,158 died in total. In the US this flu season, an estimated 32 million people have gotten the flu, with 310,000 hospitalizations and 18,000 deaths so far.
The numbers in the chart above come from last year’s data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). The agency estimates the number of flu infections in the US via its influenza surveillance system, which gathers flu data from state and local partners, then projects nationwide totals using infectious-disease models.
During the 2018-2019 season, about one out of every 1,000 people who got the flu died.
However, breaking down the numbers by age range reveals a deeper story. Among children, there is approximately one death in every 10,000 cases. In adults between 50 and 64, about six out of every 10,000 people who get the flu die. For seniors above 65, the rate rises to approximately 83 out of 1,000.
While the flu’s mortality rate is always low, it varies seasonally depending on the strains circulating each year. Flu also mutates rapidly, so people can get infected by different strains, which is why the vaccine isn’t 100% effective.
About 15% of coronavirus patients over age 80 die
The coronavirus is more fatal than the flu across all age ranges, but especially among older people, according to research from the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention. It also more seriously affects people with preexisting health problems.
Among people 10 through 40 who get the coronavirus, about four out of 1,000 patients die, according to the Chinese CDC. But 8% of people between 70 and 79 die, and the rate rises to 15% among for those 80 and over.
Here’s how the coronavirus compares to a handful of other major outbreaks


About 80% of coronavirus cases are mild.

 

[Rogue Trader]

The world will never know the "true" mortality rates of covid19 since governments have political interests in reporting them