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Unsupporting WP -- The Lost of confidence in WP has started

Goh Meng Seng

Alfrescian (InfP) [Comp]
Generous Asset
This is a very good article that spells out the exact sentiments of the middle ground, which I have been warning WP and WP people all this while.

FMSS will become WP's F-MESS and it will also become the hanging rope that may eventually kill WP off. I have made that warning moons before but it is apparent that WP leaders are blinded by their own misguided faith and trust in those in FMSS.

For example, there is ABSOLUTELY NO OBJECTIVE BASIS for WP leaders to say "no money is lost" or "no illegal transactions" when the auditors started to casting doubts on the TC accounts. They are placing alot of faith and trust, rightfully or wrongfully, on the few people who are running the TC which in fact, constitute a lot of conflict of interests in the very first place. Even PM or any PAP Ministers won't dare to state categorically 100% that there are no corruptions in the ministries or departments under their charge, though they are running their ministries FULL TIME! But WP leaders ARE NOT involved in the daily running of their TC but yet, they dare to claim with 100% confidence that there are no money lost or illegal transactions?

I fear for the worse happenings coming down on WP in the coming months...


Goh Meng Seng

http://petulantchild.wordpress.com/2014/02/25/unsupporting-you-2/

l don’t usually write about politics in my blog, unless it is something really significant. And this time it is because l want to state for the record that I am unsupporting the Workers’ Party.

Those readers who have been following my blog since the beginning would know that I supported them during the last General Election. I went to their rally at Bedok Stadium, bought their merchandise, and of course voted for them. That night, during the announcement of the results, I was there at Hougang stadium to show my support. It was an amazing experience; there was a feeling of patriotism that I never felt before, and most present would swear that we were all unified as Singaporeans then, something that not even the National Day Parade could invoke in me.

I had a lot of hope for WP, especially for Chen Show Mao, one of the elected Members of Parliament for the Aljunied GRC. His credentials are impeccable; better than most cabinet ministers of the ruling government, including the PM. When he gave his maiden speech in Parliament, I was even more impressed and was expecting to see credible challenges to the ruling party. I thought Mao would be able to form think tanks to provide alternative government policies, and that he would be able to attract talents of similar caliber to join WP to set up a shadow government. Once that happened, WP would be able to form a cabinet team if they took over power. Yes, I held the naive hope that the opposition party would take over the rein from the ruling PAP in the next election, or the one after. Very naive, but I guess I got emotional over the wrong policies that the government has been implementing for the past 10 years, and wasn’t rational in my thinking. All I was concerned then was that we needed a change in government, without thoughts of the consequences.

Today there are still a number of opposition supporters who are calling for a change in government in the next GE supposedly in 2016. But not me. It’s not that I have switched support to the ruling party because I’m still not going to, but I will not support WP if they contest again in my constituency which is very likely. I’ve been disappointed with the WP’s performance in Parliament for some time. Mao hasn’t said anything significant since that first speech. The other WP MPs are even worse. There have not been a single alternative policy paper presented; and when important issues are discussed in Parliament, other than superficial differences, the WP MPs mostly agreed with the PAP proposals. Case in point, the ministerial compensation. In fact the quality of political discourse in Parliament is appalling.

During these past two years since 7 WP MPs were elected into parliament and 2 non-elected MPs joined them, there have been a number of faux pas and scandals, but like other supporters I had excused them because they were newbies (except for the Secretary-General, Low Thia Khiang), booby traps laid by PAP, and tried to rationalize that such problems are inevitable. And I made the mistake of thinking that since PAP has problems and scandals, we shouldn’t get too hanged up over those from WP. But I have since realized that I had allowed emotion to cloud my judgements; and I meant the emotion of disliking the PAP to the extend of not thinking clearly. Why should we attack the ruling party viciously whenever there are any lapses or problems, and yet excuse those from WP? Are we settling for an opposition party without regards to the competency of the leadership team because we hate the PAP? Should we have a lower expectations of the opposition? Isn’t this a case of having double standards? Seriously if WP is going to be PAP-like, why should we accept an unproven wannabe?

Also during these two years since the last election, the Singapore Democratic Party (SDP) has been publishing alternative policy papers on health care and housing. A number of people dismissed them, including the WP supporters, calling them useless since nobody reads them. Well, at least SDP has a think tank of professionals to propose alternative ideas, as a counter to those from PAP. This is what an opposition party should do, not just being a highly paid town councillors, which is what WP MPs seem to be. And the same goes for most of the PAP MPs as well. Without such alternatives I don’t know whether WP has credible proposals, or even know what their views on the current economic structure are. People may not agree with the SDP papers but at least they are worth a debate.

The last straw from WP is the recent audit report on its combined town council of Aljunied, Hougang and Punggol East, when its appointed auditors expressed a disclaimer of opinion on the financial statement and refused to sign off on it completely because of lack of information. There are 13 issues raised in the report, such as the town council didn’t provide details to the auditors of the project management service fee paid to related party, the inability to determine the accuracy and validity of various items in the accounts, the unexplained differences of the Goods and Services Tax (GST) payable of more than S$500,000, and the Town Council didn’t deposit monies into the Sinking Fund, etc.

This is the second year the auditor has issued the disclaimer. For the first year, I guess I can still excuse the Town Council since there would be lots of mess after taking over from the ruling party. But you would think the WP MPs have learned since, and able to better prepare for the audit the following year. Yet, this is not the case. The Chairman of the party, Sylvia Lim, who is also one of the MPs, claimed that the issues raised by the auditors were due to handover problems. But not depositing monies into the Sinking Fund, as required by law, has nothing to do with handover issue. Now these monies are conservancy charges paid by the residents in the constituencies under WP, as well as grants given by Ministry of National Development, basically taxpayers’ money, and used for capital investment within the constituencies. Hence the stringent audit and requirements.

In the statement issued by Sylvia Lim, she admitted to the lapse and claimed that the issue had since been rectified and no monies were lost. Whether the monies were lost is a different matter. What is more important is why were the monies not deposited in the first place. It’s not as if WP didn’t know when the audit would be conducted. It’s amazing that the supporters take Sylvia Lim’s words for it and don’t think there is anything wrong. They don’t realize that the lapse is like a company President not transferring the sale proceeds into the bank account. And only after auditors flagged the problem did the President then issued a statement that monies have since been deposited. But what happened to those monies in the first place? And even if they were sitting in some safe somewhere, something is wrong with the accounting/financial process. WP has many years of experience managing the Hougang constituency and so should be aware of the Sinking Fund. If they had hired an idiotic finance person, then it also points to poor leadership. It just doesn’t reflect well on the party.

I am also disappointed with the WP supporters, who don’t seem to be any different from the PAP ones. Both sides are hurling vitriol at each others, and bringing up the failings of the other party as if they justify the problems or mistakes made within their own. (Though for the PAP, it’s really about the problems or lapses with the government/public service, and not so much the party.) The blind faith in their political masters is scary, everything is accepted at face value. The supporters don’t even question the validity of the statements made or even look deeply into the issues raised. Sylvia Lim insinuated in her statement that the qualified opinion of the WP audit was better than the adverse opinion given for the audit on the financial statement of a government’s organization, People’s Association (PA). (To me this smacks of throwing a red herring out as a distraction.) Firstly the PA report was signed off by the auditor but they gave it an adverse opinion because PA didn’t provide financial information on its operating companies, which is like General Electric company not providing financial statement on its subsidiary, GE Healthcare, to its auditors. (BTW, GE doesn’t have to do it since the subsidiary is not listed, and in fact many conglomerates provide a consolidated statement.) From what I understand, these operating companies of PA are self sustainable and don’t receive grants from the government. In view of this, the Ministry of Finance exempted them from having to provide financial statements to the auditors, though you can obtain them from ACCRA, the business/company registry board, for a fee. But since it’s stated in the auditing procedure to provide the information, the auditors are basically following the books. So in the case of PA, the auditors are clear what the issue is and hence they are able to sign off the report. But for the town council of WP, the auditors don’t even have the full picture of the accounts and naturally refuse to sign off. If the town council is a listed company, it’s shares would be suspended from trading, and shareholders would demand to know what the hell is going on. Well, the Ministry of Finance has instructed the Auditor-General to investigate the accounts, so let’s see.

What I hope to see in a political party is one where it’s leadership is above board and set an example of being transparent and ethical. I don’t see this in WP. By the way it’s ridiculous to issue a challenge to the corrupt investigation bureau or police to investigate the WP. There are actions which may not be illegal, but are unethical.

(Updated on 26 Feb)
I didn’t explain earlier why I don’t see the possibility of a change in government or hope to see one happening in the near future. There are many opposition supporters who are calling for this without really understanding what they wish for. They reason that with the current inadequacy and incompetency of the incumbent government, we should give the other guys a chance. After all the PAP leaders were given a chance in the 1960s and they did a good job. Well, you are dead wrong with this thinking. Yes the pioneer leaders did well, but Singapore economy then was much less complex. Now, you can describe the economy as a finely – tuned F1 car. Yes Singapore is very small In size, but its economy is very complex. Any change to one policy like housing will affect the others because they are all interlinked. In fact any changes have to be enacted in a calibrated manner and in parallel.

So do you think any Ah Beng or Ah Seng can drive an F1 car? If we want to kick out the PAP, we’ve better find a Sebastian Vettel to take over the driver seat, and not just having him alone, we need the entire Renault F1 team. Are there people of such caliber ready to take over? If we disregard this criteria, we would end up with a situation of either the car won’t start or it would crash in one nanosecond. Honestly, we have to ask ourselves, can we take this risk. I’m not happy with the PAP government too, and I’m pissed with their dictatorial rein that crushes any political opponents whom they regard as threats. The current lack of an alternative is due in a large part to them, though Singaporeans are also to blame for not standing up in the early days for their political rights. But I guess, most Singaporeans then were lowly educated and had no idea they needed to have a strong voice in politics. So we should be careful what we wish for. But it is not too late now for the people to find their voices and to demand for policies that would benefit the people in the sustainable manner. We just have to do it in a rational way.
 
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The_Hypocrite

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Hey the PAP supporter is here,,,Got More Shit is sprouting more shit again,,,guess he is gearing up for the next erection......will he join the PAP? i mean since he so pro PAP,,why even bother to call himself opposition?
 

tanwahp

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
No one expects her to be the last and only one to become unhappy with the WP.

Tan Cheng Bock, someone a lot more prominent, became unhappy with the PAP.

Mohd Ghazali beats them all. From wanting to burn Vivian and joining the SDP with all its "alternative policy papers" ended up becoming a SDP critic, and ended up with the PAP under Zaqy.

However, there was no claim from the author that she is or speaks for the "middle ground". The claim was made by Goh Meng Seng. He hasn't made up his mind as to whether WP already lost the ground (which makes it pointless to put up such articles) or deserves to lose the ground (which means many are still supporting WP).

The aim of a party is to capture a majority, not capture everyone. WP still maintains majority of its supporters and has grown to win PAP supporters over. I also observed that they have won over some who were "pro-opposition anti-WP" folks prior to 2011. The net growth is what counts.

As for the points, those similar to GMS have been largely addressed, rebutted and demolished. If not, GMS would not have fled from those threads (and in some months from the forum itself). Unless someone wants to hear from a parrot, there is no need to repeat.
 

commoner

Alfrescian
Loyal
of course GMS is right when he talked about Png Eng Huat and Lilian Lee when they contested in Hougang and Punggol East or Tan Kim Lian running for president. How they they both win,,,,, GMS is right as always.....
 

Goh Meng Seng

Alfrescian (InfP) [Comp]
Generous Asset
You mean to say when there are people who write or say something that is against your liking, it is "crap"?

Come on lah! There will be more of such sentiments coming, whether or not they put down in words, this sentiment is spreading like fire right after the F-MESS auditor reports began to spread. Last time PAP people are ostriches, now it seems that WP people also turn into ostriches as well.


Goh Meng Seng


What a crap thread! Somebody pls move it to the Rubbish folder.
 

Goh Meng Seng

Alfrescian (InfP) [Comp]
Generous Asset
You can continue to live in your own delusions but the truth is just too much glaring. This author is not your type of rahrah supporter but a thinking one. In fact, a very shrewd and well educated person who can see through and deeper in things. A swing voter, we call middle ground voter.

I believe WP needs a total overhaul of leadership. What can work for a small party with a SMC may just not work for a party with 9 seats in parliament. Worse still, a total show of incompetency in running the TC. F-MESS is real and so is the danger behind it. You can continue to sing and dance in fantasy but the shit will still hit the fan... just a matter of time.

I hate to say this, WP people and hardcore opposition supporters have been shouting "wake up voters" to PAP middle ground supporters but I guess in all ironies, it is time for you to heed your own call. Wake up!

Goh Meng Seng



No one expects her to be the last and only one to become unhappy with the WP.

Tan Cheng Bock, someone a lot more prominent, became unhappy with the PAP.

Mohd Ghazali beats them all. From wanting to burn Vivian and joining the SDP with all its "alternative policy papers" ended up becoming a SDP critic, and ended up with the PAP under Zaqy.

However, there was no claim from the author that she is or speaks for the "middle ground". The claim was made by Goh Meng Seng. He hasn't made up his mind as to whether WP already lost the ground (which makes it pointless to put up such articles) or deserves to lose the ground (which means many are still supporting WP).

The aim of a party is to capture a majority, not capture everyone. WP still maintains majority of its supporters and has grown to win PAP supporters over. I also observed that they have won over some who were "pro-opposition anti-WP" folks prior to 2011. The net growth is what counts.

As for the points, those similar to GMS have been largely addressed, rebutted and demolished. If not, GMS would not have fled from those threads (and in some months from the forum itself). Unless someone wants to hear from a parrot, there is no need to repeat.
 

tanwahp

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
You can continue to live in your own delusions but the truth is just too much glaring. This author is not your type of rahrah supporter but a thinking one. In fact, a very shrewd and well educated person who can see through and deeper in things. A swing voter, we call middle ground voter.

I believe WP needs a total overhaul of leadership. What can work for a small party with a SMC may just not work for a party with 9 seats in parliament. Worse still, a total show of incompetency in running the TC. F-MESS is real and so is the danger behind it. You can continue to sing and dance in fantasy but the shit will still hit the fan... just a matter of time.

I hate to say this, WP people and hardcore opposition supporters have been shouting "wake up voters" to PAP middle ground supporters but I guess in all ironies, it is time for you to heed your own call. Wake up!

Goh Meng Seng

You mean supporting WP is a delusion, but if I say WP will cease to exist tomorrow, it is not a delusion. It's time to stop putting labels on everything.

Anyone able to substantiate his position would not be at a loss for words after few posts. People with strong beliefs in a subject can past pages of threads. Is all this genuine or nursing a grudging, envious and bitter heart.

Forummers are right that you have been more wrong than correct in looking at the future. I wouldn't be so cocksure if I were you. 2 years ago, President TKL would have been an ultimate truth.
 
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winnipegjets

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Let's just say you are correct about WP - which I think you are not - how does taking your support for WP benefit the country? PAP has been abusing sinkees for so long and you think it is alright for them to continue to do so? We have lost hundreds of billions and you think this condition should continue.
You are totally illogical! If you are on the PAP payroll, then it makes perfect sense.
 

PAPIB

Alfrescian
Loyal
TS, I do not know who you are but PAP got so many molehills for you to make into a mountain, I do not see your self-righteousness then. As long as WP is not going to jail for TC matters, I take it PAP is just executing routine ICT to smear WP's reputation, character and integrity which PAP had done so for 50 years to all political competitors. It is not new and is tiring.
 

PAPIB

Alfrescian
Loyal
WP will make mistakes along the learning curve but so will SDP, NSP, RP, SDA, SPP etc. Do you want to reboot the growth of an Alternative each time an Opposition party makes mistakes? Let us say WP collapse. Who will rise next and take how long to rise ? Let us say NSP. NSP will make same mistakes as WP as they learn to grapple with Grassroots, Parliament and Town Council. Then bring down NSP too?
 

PAPIB

Alfrescian
Loyal
Then wait again for another party to rise and everything repeats. PAP will remain in power forever. We will all be dead.Singaporeans allow PAP to make many mistakes past 50 years and will allow WP to make mistakes if WP can replace PAP which is the entire point of the Big Picture. Singaporeans are more worry why PAP brushed aside PA Adverse Audit Opinion, YOG accounts, AIMs accounts, EM Services , CPF, GIC, Temasek and many more. These can destroy a nation and not WP's tiny mistake.
 

Huat-Ah

Alfrescian
Loyal
You mean to say when there are people who write or say something that is against your liking, it is "crap"?

Come on lah! There will be more of such sentiments coming, whether or not they put down in words, this sentiment is spreading like fire right after the F-MESS auditor reports began to spread. Last time PAP people are ostriches, now it seems that WP people also turn into ostriches as well.


Goh Meng Seng

The correct word for your this thread is JUNK THREAD :smile:
 

winnipegjets

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Thankfully, there are not so many traitors in the Opposition camp.

Don't worry, Holy Goh, WP will win big in the GE.
 

Goh Meng Seng

Alfrescian (InfP) [Comp]
Generous Asset
Your delusions do not lie in your support of WP but rather the way you try to blindly defend the flaws of WP. I do have friends who are supporters of WP or even party members of WP but it seems that they are,more rational and reasonable than you do. They see the flaws, recognize them as the key problems and will try to solve these at their ends. But it is people like you who gave the leadership the wrong signals and thus blinded them from these real problems. You think you are smart in your delusionary defense of such ills but you are in fact you are stupid in breeding complacency in the leadership.

Goh Meng Seng


You mean supporting WP is a delusion, but if I say WP will cease to exist tomorrow, it is not a delusion. It's time to stop putting labels on everything.

Anyone able to substantiate his position would not be at a loss for words after few posts. People with strong beliefs in a subject can past pages of threads. Is all this genuine or nursing a grudging, envious and bitter heart.

Forummers are right that you have been more wrong than correct in looking at the future. I wouldn't be so cocksure if I were you. 2 years ago, President TKL would have been an ultimate truth.
 

Goh Meng Seng

Alfrescian (InfP) [Comp]
Generous Asset
The problems of WP are getting more obvious and serious with every saga unveiled.It is strange that people just refused to see it as it is. The author is right to criticise WPsupporters of supporting blindly
with such lousy defense of its flaws. Such acts will only worsen the situation and the party will lose its ability to evolve better.

I dont think we expect perfection and understand the limitations of human beings. But the inability to reflect on mistakes done and improve on performance are just unacceptable.We are talking about political party with the potential of running the country here but the kinds of mistakes made coupled with that bad attitude is really hard to convince the educated middle ground that WP is the party they can depend on.

PAP may be bad but WP flaws and most importantly their attitude towards their incompetency is giving these people impression that they could be far worse than PAP. This is the reason why the author has decided to unsupport WP.

Goh Meng Seng



Let's just say you are correct about WP - which I think you are not - how does taking your support for WP benefit the country? PAP has been abusing sinkees for so long and you think it is alright for them to continue to do so? We have lost hundreds of billions and you think this condition should continue.
You are totally illogical! If you are on the PAP payroll, then it makes perfect sense.
 

Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
Asset
Let's just say you are correct about WP - which I think you are not - how does taking your support for WP benefit the country? PAP has been abusing sinkees for so long and you think it is alright for them to continue to do so? We have lost hundreds of billions and you think this condition should continue.
You are totally illogical! If you are on the PAP payroll, then it makes perfect sense.

How do you know we have lost hundreds of billions? A few deals may have turned sour but that doesn't mean the overall portfolio has done badly.
 

tanwahp

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Your delusions do not lie in your support of WP but rather the way you try to blindly defend the flaws of WP.

What's the difference? You think all support is blind support anyway. For someone who thinks WP does everything 100% wrong, even LTK wakes out of bed or brush his teeth is also wrong, why don't you be honest and say there is no such thing as supporting WP since there is nothing worth supporting.

Supporting a party involves defending it when it is framed. Who doesn't know that WP is not perfect, but some try to make them sound like they are worse than what they are. Not all "mistakes" are mistakes, some are exaggerated, distorted. The aim: to cost them votes wherever they can.

If WP supporters recognize everything that PAP supporters say, they wouldn't be WP supporters. Your friends probably think they are WP supporters, you probably think they are, maybe they are not.

In this forum, I am on record to have criticized WP on 6, 7 areas and occasion. Regulars will know.
 
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tanwahp

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
with such lousy defense of its flaws.

I say again that if the defense was "lousy", you would have managed to outlast your debate opponents. You couldn't do it.

I dont think we expect perfection and understand the limitations of human beings. But the inability to reflect on mistakes done and improve on performance are just unacceptable.

In terms of its "ability" to apologize, I don't think WP is below normal standards. For singling out WP, you need to justify that WP is sub-normal but I am sure you can't. Because NSP hasn't apologized for Steve Chia, SDP for the Punggol East boo-boo and the PAP for thousands of things, I don't think you can assert that WP is the worst party in Singapore.
 
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zeebjii

Alfrescian
Loyal
The problems of WP are getting more obvious and serious with every saga unveiled.It is strange that people just refused to see it as it is. The author is right to criticise WPsupporters of supporting blindly
with such lousy defense of its flaws. Such acts will only worsen the situation and the party will lose its ability to evolve better.

You doggedness to discredit the WP is admirable, laughable though. Cant you see that with every 'serious' problem, WP became more and more popular successful? Totally opposite of what you wished for.
 
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