This Malay feels no love from S'pore

[Jah_rastafar_I]

Without the race quota, Woodlands might become a Malay enclave like Harlem for Negros in Manhattan.

They don't buy high and sell low, they buy below value and sell below value.

Like it or not, population transmigration is common throughout human history, no land is owned by nobody, it's all darwinian.

You know how dangerous that would be for non malays ESPECIALLY the evil chinese majority. If this HDB quota had not been set in who knows stories of chinese ppl would whacked by a gang of malay teens would surface.

U know there are parts of paris is white frenchman cannot just walk into simply because of his race, that part of paris has been taken over by the muslim immigrants from other countries and they have turned it into their enclaves.


Now okay, like one bro scrobal said this is their homeland. All right, despite being born in this country i am not from their race so okay it IS their homeland. Not anyone else from another race. Okay. Yet this particular country is the richest country in this region and the 2nd richest in Asia. And in this very thread another Bro mentioned that malays from malaysia whom form a majority in their own country actually are envious of the poor malay minority here whom are bullied by the evil chinese???????

So what does this say when ur a minority and are bullied by the evil majoirty here and yet get envied????




As a member of the so-called majority no one in my family has ever had government assistance. The majority race do not have anyone to help them, ppl thrive here or fail either due to their competence or incompetence.

THis is a very tolerant society. One of the most peaceful in the world. One where no one will harrass you especially if u do not belong to the majority race which is chinese. This is something you will never ever find in a western country.

 

[guy2100]

THis is a very tolerant society. One of the most peaceful in the world. One where no one will harrass you especially if u do not belong to the majority race which is chinese. This is something you will never ever find in a western country.

I agree with you about that though. Minorities in Singapore seem to be the most protected in the world. I doubt anyone of them can claim to be physically or verbally harassed in the street. The goverment takes a very hard stand against racist actions. As to the person who wants the national anthem change to Chinese, I think he has to consider migrating elsewhere(preferably China) before bloodshed is spilled here. The demographic change in Singapore(as the darwinian theory goes) shows the minorities to double their population within 100 years while the Chinese population will be halved. As they claim, the huge import of PRC are non-racist after all and its purely for economic purposes. A change in mindset and ego is what I propose for you.

 

[annexa]

I want to ask is, if LKY they all no trust malays, then they will lagi not put malays in polis. Because during war times, the polis will hold your family ransom while you point your guns at the invaders.

So the malays should not feel this way. Maybe is last time they talk to malay leaders, and the malay leaders is tell LKY, put my people to polis pls. And LKY listen. So unless we know details, we never know the real truth!

 

[pia]

IF we look at history, how the Ang Mohs beat the pulp out of the indigenous people in their "homeland" to almost extinction eg. aborigines in Aus, Indians in N. America, the Mayans etc., I have to agree we are head above the rest in racial harmony.

 

[peasantJUDGE]

Thanks for putting this up. Excellent article and spells the issues that have been simmering under the surface for years. I always enjoyed the way she covered her story -warts and all.

Do you get the feeling that our Malays somehow secretly cherish/prefer the bumi-type policy of our northern neighbour? And the Taufik matter...that's a sure sign of seige mentality, isnt it? One thing about Malays, they are a tighter community than, say, the Chinese.

 

[The_Latest_H]

IF we look at history, how the Ang Mohs beat the pulp out of the indigenous people in their "homeland" to almost extinction eg. aborigines in Aus, Indians in N. America, the Mayans etc., I have to agree we are head above the rest in racial harmony.

That doesn't mean we cannot do better. Superficially supressing racism is not the same as addressing the problem of racism.

And then afterwards, there's the pretense that racism doesn't exist, no matter how subtle it is, and then say that just because we are less means we can now relax.

That's wrong and that's ourselves sinking into complacency.

And as I said, the best gauge level of judging the level of racism is to see whether are there sufficient Malay passing numbers in maths and science in primary and secondary levels; whether are there sufficient number of Malays in Poly and JC schools after the O levels; the number of Malays becoming officers in SAF and being trusted in the highest level despite their race, and of course, the number of Malays who have went through University level, pass well and becoming professionals in the highest knowledge industries- such as in law, management, business, economics, finance, IT, engineering, science, maths and even politics and public service.

If the numbers are rising and the individual average marks of a malay is on par with his chinese and indian counterparts, then we can say that Singapore is on the way. If not, we are still nowhere near the goal.

Criticising about racist attitudes is a tiny step, and while we should be happy about it- well we are supposed to criticise those who are racist anyway. Its like when someone over-congratulate someone for passing PSLE- you are supposed to pass PSLE, and go on to secondary school. So you shouldn't celebrate too much- there's more that you have to go on.

 

[scroobal]

That doesn't mean we cannot do better. Superficially supressing racism is not the same as addressing the problem of racism.

And then afterwards, there's the pretense that racism doesn't exist, no matter how subtle it is, and then say that just because we are less means we can now relax.

That's wrong and that's ourselves sinking into complacency.

And as I said, the best gauge level of judging the level of racism is to see whether are there sufficient Malay passing numbers in maths and science in primary and secondary levels; whether are there sufficient number of Malays in Poly and JC schools after the O levels; the number of Malays becoming officers in SAF and being trusted in the highest level despite their race, and of course, the number of Malays who have went through University level, pass well and becoming professionals in the highest knowledge industries- such as in law, management, business, economics, finance, IT, engineering, science, maths and even politics and public service.

If the numbers are rising and the individual average marks of a malay is on par with his chinese and indian counterparts, then we can say that Singapore is on the way. If not, we are still nowhere near the goal.

Criticising about racist attitudes is a tiny step, and while we should be happy about it- well we are supposed to criticise those who are racist anyway. Its like when someone over-congratulate someone for passing PSLE- you are supposed to pass PSLE, and go on to secondary school. So you shouldn't celebrate too much- there's more that you have to go on.

Excellent argument. If all citizens in Singapore no matter what their race are firing on all cylinders, we will be shining star on this earth.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Her grouses appear to have some basis and legitimacy, alot of which is probably due to historical baggage. However I think perhaps she should consider the other ethnic minority groups positions first before appearing to claim that the Singapore Malays are the "least favourite child", particularly in 2008.

She had a lot of valid points and she is the one that raised the Taufik issue. It was a very balanced article. Imagine despite the decades and years rolling by, they are still considered as the 5th column. They are treated like lepers on their own native soil.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Quite the racist and bigot eh?

Native soil???? Anyway if not because of the chinese here this would just be a fishing village the not the richest country in this region.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Good post

I agree and sympathise with most of her points but feel a little hurt about her failure to mention the fact that many chinese including yours truly and my family voted for both eventual winners. And I would like to point out that it takes two hands to clap or high five.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Good post

I don't think she's being racist. Being honest about her race and her religion, and pointing out the perceptions that are being handled out to her, is an important aspect on why we should maintain an honest talk about religion and race.

Remember the context of the speech that Sen. Obama said about race and religion in March, and know that his speech can be adapted in any country. The point is this: as a majority race, we should not impose our cultural view on other people. We maybe a majority race, but it doesn't mean we have become a superior race. It only means that we have more responsibility to maintain the equilibrium in society. So its wise that when we are the majority, we exercise our powers properly and with sensitivity. As long as other people don't get left out of the discussion, and they all play a part as well, then we are all better off.

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

That doesn't mean we cannot do better. Superficially supressing racism is not the same as addressing the problem of racism.

And then afterwards, there's the pretense that racism doesn't exist, no matter how subtle it is, and then say that just because we are less means we can now relax.

That's wrong and that's ourselves sinking into complacency.

And as I said, the best gauge level of judging the level of racism is to see whether are there sufficient Malay passing numbers in maths and science in primary and secondary levels; whether are there sufficient number of Malays in Poly and JC schools after the O levels; the number of Malays becoming officers in SAF and being trusted in the highest level despite their race, and of course, the number of Malays who have went through University level, pass well and becoming professionals in the highest knowledge industries- such as in law, management, business, economics, finance, IT, engineering, science, maths and even politics and public service.

If the numbers are rising and the individual average marks of a malay is on par with his chinese and indian counterparts, then we can say that Singapore is on the way. If not, we are still nowhere near the goal.

Criticising about racist attitudes is a tiny step, and while we should be happy about it- well we are supposed to criticise those who are racist anyway. Its like when someone over-congratulate someone for passing PSLE- you are supposed to pass PSLE, and go on to secondary school. So you shouldn't celebrate too much- there's more that you have to go on.

I beg to differ are you insinuating here that the reason why there are fewer malays passing subjects and getting into teritary education is due to racist policies here???? Or due to the fact that more of them simply are not academically inclined or are just simply not interested in scholaristic pursuits???


Maybe we need some kind of affirmiative action put into place like up north???

Anyway any pupil here irregardless of race has to work hard to get good results. Of course there are quite a small minority who get in due to connections but overall u are where u are in this society based on how good ur results are more or less.

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

Quite the racist and bigot eh?

I have been trying to understand why this particular country which is so small and so young compared to say many of the neighbouring regions is so successfully economically??????



Look i could have written something PC, yet what for???? This entire country has always gone along the lines of being PC. For once why not try a different approach. You mention that what i have written is bigoted. I guess i must be wrong. Care to explain why i might be wrong???????

Maybe it is just pure conincidence. If the 75% majority were replaced with say thai ppl for eg it would still be the same SG?

 

[scroobal]

Her grouses appear to have some basis and legitimacy, alot of which is probably due to historical baggage. However I think perhaps she should consider the other ethnic minority groups positions first before appearing to claim that the Singapore Malays are the "least favourite child", particularly in 2008.

Having spoken to the Malays over the years, friends, colleagues, acquaintences and those that allow me the opportunity to touch sensitive areas, the single biggest issue/gripe is National Service. No other minority face this issue. Commandoes which is a sensitive unit is full of Indians. NS is a prominent scar for the race.

In mid 80s, Mahathir stoked the locals on this issue. To counter, LHL who was minister of Defence rounded up all Malay Officers in the SAF. I think he paraded 8 or so with highest ranks of Lt Col. This is probably the frontrunner to the Mee Siam Mai Hum Gaffe because its was identical in context - every single one of the paraded "Malay" Officer were not pure Malays. Like the proverbial hum, which should not be iun the mee seam. All had Indian, Pakistani or some other blood mixed. They even had to yank one or two from the Uni to make the numbers.

After many moons they finally got Lt Zaki as a Pilot but the chap's late father was a well respected ISD officer. Something the Malay community is aware.

Despite they rising to the occasion at the Battle of Pasir Panjang Ridge during WWII over all other local races, their entry to the Army has been cursory.

I had 2 mates who never did NS but they are outstanding citizens and Singaporeans to the core. One is a Sr Banker in one of the largest bank in the world and the other is an Academic. Yet, they have come across many Singaporeans who were not aware that many Malays of high education were barred from NS. Not even the Police. Something they cannot explain to their kids. I take great pains not to accidently mention my time in OCS etc as I can feel their hurt. The word "pariah" in their own soil comes to mind.

Now you know why her article went into details of NS and covered significant part of her piece when she is a female in the first place.

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

Having spoken to the Malays over the years, friends, colleagues, acquaintences and those that allow me the opportunity to touch sensitive areas, the single biggest issue/gripe is National Service. No other minority face this issue. Commandoes which is a sensitive unit is full of Indians. NS is a prominent scar for the race.

In mid 80s, Mahathir stoked the locals on this issue. To counter, LHL who was minister of Defence rounded up all Malay Officers in the SAF. I think he paraded 8 or so with highest ranks of Lt Col. This is probably the frontrunner to the Mee Siam Mai Hum Gaffe because its was identical in context - every single one of the paraded "Malay" Officer were not pure Malays. Like the proverbial hum, which should not be iun the mee seam. All had Indian, Pakistani or some other blood mixed. They even had to yank one or two from the Uni to make the numbers.

After many moons they finally got Lt Zaki as a Pilot but the chap's late father was a well respected ISD officer. Something the Malay community is aware.

Despite they rising to the occasion at the Battle of Pasir Panjang Ridge during WWII over all other local races, their entry to the Army has been cursory.

I had 2 mates who never did NS but they are outstanding citizens and Singaporeans to the core. One is a Sr Banker in one of the largest bank in the world and the other is an Academic. Yet, they have come across many Singaporeans who were not aware that many Malays of high education were barred from NS. Not even the Police. Something they cannot explain to their kids. I take great pains not to accidently mention my time in OCS etc as I can feel their hurt. The word "pariah" in their own soil comes to mind.

Now you know why her article went into details of NS and covered significant part of her piece when she is a female in the first place.

U cannot put your own personal experience and you knowing a couple of malays whom are outstanding citizens. Unless you know every single malay in Singapore or a very large majority at least can you make statements like this about them.


The fact is many of them have relatives, family etc in neighbouring indonesia and malaysia. The fact is our greatest threat is also our neighbours. In ww2 the enemies were japanese a ppl that originate very very far from this region. Didn;t the chinese fight them very hard as well?? Lim bo seng's name is well remembered. The japanese hated the chinese the most.


Fast forward to today we can see that japanese are obviously not the threat. Like i wrote above which countries are most likely to be a threat. One particular country can even use us as boogeyman to garner support during election times.

What race did Sg's most dangerous terrorist belong to and escaped recently???

Were there any racist remarks made about malays despite having a couple incidents of detainees escaping that belonged to that race?? From my side i didn't hear anything. The forums i went to like this one and HWZ also did not make any mention.

Sg society did display a lot of maturity in this instance.

 

[zack123]

U cannot put your own personal experience and you knowing a couple of malays whom are outstanding citizens. Unless you know every single malay in Singapore or a very large majority at least can you make statements like this about them.


The fact is many of them have relatives, family etc in neighbouring indonesia and malaysia. The fact is our greatest threat is also our neighbours. In ww2 the enemies were japanese a ppl that originate very very far from this region. Didn;t the chinese fight them very hard as well?? Lim bo seng's name is well remembered. The japanese hated the chinese the most.


Fast forward to today we can see that japanese are obviously not the threat. Like i wrote above which countries are most likely to be a threat. One particular country can even use us as boogeyman to garner support during election times.

What race did Sg's most dangerous terrorist belong to and escaped recently???

Were there any racist remarks made about malays despite having a couple incidents of detainees escaping that belonged to that race?? From my side i didn't hear anything. The forums i went to like this one and HWZ also did not make any mention.

Sg society did display a lot of maturity in this instance.

Some of the points need to be addressed separately:

1) Yes i agree with you that sweeping statements on the Malay society based on limited knowledge /contacts can be said to be generalizing.

2) So what if many of the Malays has relatives living in the region? Does that make them less patriotic? In a scenario where Malaysia bombs Singapore and those fatalities include Malay families, would the Malays who survived support the Malaysians who killed their family?
And related to the Jap occupation, the reason for hatred for the Chinese stems from their experience with the Chinese in China. And we have many heroes of that era not just from 1 race.

3) What happended in the era where Communist elements tried to infiltrate in Singapore? Did we identify them with a specific race or do we term them as communists? Similarly a terrorists can be of any colour, race or religion. So there is no point linking race to terrorism as it transcends all races.

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

Some of the points need to be addressed separately:

1) Yes i agree with you that sweeping statements on the Malay society based on limited knowledge /contacts can be said to be generalizing.

2) So what if many of the Malays has relatives living in the region? Does that make them less patriotic? In a scenario where Malaysia bombs Singapore and those fatalities include Malay families, would the Malays who survived support the Malaysians who killed their family?
And related to the Jap occupation, the reason for hatred for the Chinese stems from their experience with the Chinese in China. And we have many heroes of that era not just from 1 race.

3) What happended in the era where Communist elements tried to infiltrate in Singapore? Did we identify them with a specific race or do we term them as communists? Similarly a terrorists can be of any colour, race or religion. So there is no point linking race to terrorism as it transcends all races.

I'll start from pt 2. The patriotism of every single malay differs from individual to individual, family to family same as every other citizen here. Okay let's say malaysia decides to attack Singapore. what makes you think they will even target the Singaporean malays? Maybe they will onyl target the chinese?? Okay it's pointless to talk about such scenerios since in a war anything goes. The thing is to play it safe. Wans't this the same in the great USA when it was at war with japan? They simply put all japanese citizens in interment camps without caring a hoot if they were patriotic or not. The reason was they could not risk if a japanese american was not loyal to his country and decided to help japan instead although i believe that most of the jap americans were loyal to the US. Same thing in this context. To not risk if a malay singaporean might betray SG why not simply not allow them into certain parts of the army airforce etc. Look you would most likely disagree with me on this, yet i feel that the government has a good reason for doing this. They made the national language as malay and other things why would they simply be racist to the malays for no good reason??

In the end can you gurantee every single malay citizen is patriotic? None of us can so its pointless to argue about this topic.


As for 3. Chinese are mostly the ones considered being communists. Here is another racist incident although towards the chinese. Remember the number of chinese schools shut down by LKY in the 60s? One of the reasons was that they were communists. Yet you said anyone can be a communist irregardless of his race or religion etc so why shut down the chinese schools? This was also done in indonesia and malaysia. It's funny and you shoudl ask yourself this. When something racist like this occurs to the chinese, shutting down chinese schools because chinese are associated with being communists, which is quite racist why have you not spoken up about it? If it were the malays being the one accused of being communists you would be indignant yet if it is done against chinese nobody says anything. This is one thing i always noticed here. As for terrorist no prizes for guessing which religion produces terrorists and which race belongs to that religion and the recently escaped terrorist is what religion and what race.



Anyway i have decided to step down on this sort of argument. Defending the chinese is one of the most thankless things to do in the world. They rather support another race than someone from their own kind. They are fair weather frens and only ask for help when they are in trouble. Yeah generalization but have personal experience and we like to generalize since we are only human.

 

[zack123]

I'll start from pt 2. The patriotism of every single malay differs from individual to individual, family to family same as every other citizen here. Okay let's say malaysia decides to attack Singapore. what makes you think they will even target the Singaporean malays? Maybe they will onyl target the chinese?? Okay it's pointless to talk about such scenerios since in a war anything goes. The thing is to play it safe. Wans't this the same in the great USA when it was at war with japan? They simply put all japanese citizens in interment camps without caring a hoot if they were patriotic or not. The reason was they could not risk if a japanese american was not loyal to his country and decided to help japan instead although i believe that most of the jap americans were loyal to the US. Same thing in this context. To not risk if a malay singaporean might betray SG why not simply not allow them into certain parts of the army airforce etc. Look you would most likely disagree with me on this, yet i feel that the government has a good reason for doing this. They made the national language as malay and other things why would they simply be racist to the malays for no good reason??

The Americans cannot be used as an example as they have a simply atrocious racist record.
Anyway the need to place Malay as the national language was to ensure that we are in sync with the countries in the region.
If we cannot accept that some races as equal, why recite or have a pledge in the first place?

As for 3. Chinese are mostly the ones considered being communists. Here is another racist incident although towards the chinese. Remember the number of chinese schools shut down by LKY in the 60s? One of the reasons was that they were communists. Yet you said anyone can be a communist irregardless of his race or religion etc so why shut down the chinese schools? This was also done in indonesia and malaysia. It's funny and you shoudl ask yourself this. When something racist like this occurs to the chinese, shutting down chinese schools because chinese are associated with being communists, which is quite racist why have you not spoken up about it? If it were the malays being the one accused of being communists you would be indignant yet if it is done against chinese nobody says anything. This is one thing i always noticed here. As for terrorist no prizes for guessing which religion produces terrorists and which race belongs to that religion and the recently escaped terrorist is what religion and what race.

These are schools which try to permeate the society with principles of communism. You target the source and it happens to be originating from Chinese schools.
Most mainstream religions preaches peace. It is the fundamentalists that manipulates religions for their own purposes. This is not only visible for Muslims but also Christians, Sikhs, Buddhism etc as world history has shown.

 

[yinyang]

..if there is a fire, a man drowning or if there is a road accident, the first helper, the first to dash or dive to safe someone will be a Malay - most of the time. Have a heart people.

Also, malays have a good community, family spirit. Can't fail to see many in parks partaking their meals with family, friends. Even in offices, social group dynamics? Postive trait ala abang adek style.

But the rough, real world out there still shows prejudices in recruitment. So I do sympathise with writer

 

[The_Latest_H]

I beg to differ are you insinuating here that the reason why there are fewer malays passing subjects and getting into teritary education is due to racist policies here???? Or due to the fact that more of them simply are not academically inclined or are just simply not interested in scholaristic pursuits???


Maybe we need some kind of affirmiative action put into place like up north???

Anyway any pupil here irregardless of race has to work hard to get good results. Of course there are quite a small minority who get in due to connections but overall u are where u are in this society based on how good ur results are more or less.

Well, if we don't know whether are they scholastically inclined until we give them the avenue to, then when would we know? If they think that all they can be is to be drivers in NS, or in civilian life, as mere office assistants, or as hawkers, or as office cleaners or as unemployed young adults smoking in the void decks, being forgotten, then they will NOT be scholastically inclined, and be motivated to go further.

As it is, there are a few more malays who have gone against type and have progressed beyond expectations. But exceptions are few. Many still finish N-levels and go on to ITE and become lowly workers. They don't feel like they can become medical doctors or computer engineers, because the majority race thinks, and they themselves think that they cannot make it.

But I will put in the case, again of Sen. Obama. When he ran for the democrat nomination for President, many black themselves said that while he was a nice candidate, he wasn't black enough to run. And besides, he's black in the first place, and no white will vote for a black candidate for President. They were already resigning themselves to defeat before a single vote was cast.

However, after Obama won Iowa, and fought successfully against Clinton in South Carolina, blacks began to fall in love, and things changed. When they have a role model who can say that being black means that you can succeed despite the odds, it means a lot. It means that your race cannot be the obstacle to success. It must be of your ability and your talent.

So when the handful of malay professionals cannot go further because of subtly racist ceilings imposed in both public and private sectors, and when the rest of the malays who are resigned to blue collar employment or worse still, unemployment, then they believe that because of the ceilings of race, and doubts of their patriotism, they will not try to go further.

Eventually the malays cannot be happy by being 2nd class citizens. You say that they should be happy because we give them bread and water. But when malays see us and Indians eating something else that's way better than bread and water, won't they be unhappy? Won't they want to immigrate to the Middle East or to Indonesia and Malaysia, or even to Australia or Canada, where they have a bigger chance of succeed?

So when we treat them badly, then that's when even previously ultra-patriotic malay Singaporeans might start of moving on, and moving out. And that has repercussions for all of us, as talented people, and potentially talented people will move out. If they succeed in other countries, those countries benefit from their success. Singapore won't. So chase out people, especially in this era, in your own peril.

Which, btw, is also why I said that in this day and age, we cannot simply just chase out people because of their skin colour. In many centuries ago, governments and societies can do that, because these people would have nowhere to go. They go, they die. But now when immigration is such a huge opportunity to leave and succeed elsewhere, they will go, and they will bring their success and ability somewhere else.

So, eventually, as I said in the old forum, when you suspect all malays of being terrorists- and eventually the whole population of being terrorists, and proceed to prosecute them, you will, through your incessant actions, turn them against you.