Question - A foreigner lived here for 15 years, married a Sg woman and has children..

[DuYunQi]

I have a question.. and I am curious as to how all in this forum think or feel.

Let's say a foreigner married a sg woman, has kids, and has stayed here for over 15 years.
His wife and kids are all Sg citizens, but he is not.

If one day, this foreigner writes or says or puts his thoughts on Sg affairs, whether it's politics or social or whatever.. do you all think he has every right to?

Let's omit profession, but just stick with the above. If this foreigner tried to voice out about the issues Sg people face, has he the right to get involved? Do you think he should?

My stand is, if he still holds his country's citizenship, why poke his fingers around in another country?
So what if he has stayed here for 15 years? If there is any real trouble, will he stay and defend Sg? Or run back to his home country? I don't care or mind if he brings his wife and kids, that's his family.. but if heget's his noes into another country's affairs, especially when he is not a citizen.. I don't see where he think he has got the right to do so.

Try telling an American, or a French citizen about their politics or their country's affairs.. I got my nose "rubbed into the sand", when both (fellow students during my college days) asked, "are you a citizen of (country)? if no, then pls mind your own business cos you may not fully understand.. even if you lived here your entire life".

Serious.. that's what they told me.. and when I thought about it, I realized that culture, history and almost everything played a serious part in what they said. If your roots are not in that country, what right have you to say anything, especially when you are not a citizen of that country?

Citizenship grants you voting rights, among other things.. and this is most important.

Why am I asking this? Well.. I will explain later.. but please share your thoughts and views, thank you.

 

[songsongpunggol]

Re: Question - A foreigner lived here for 15 years, married a Sg woman and has childr

Why he cannot speak up for his singaporeans kids meh?

 

[DuYunQi]

Re: Question - A foreigner lived here for 15 years, married a Sg woman and has childr

Why he cannot speak up for his singaporeans kids meh?

his sg kids nid him to speak up .. meh?
his wife is a sg. She sit around and do ?

 

[Tension68]

Re: Question - A foreigner lived here for 15 years, married a Sg woman and has childr

I noe u toking about peppertail la bro

n NO, I dun think any foreigner has ANY right to haf a say in the affairs of singapore.. they can comment.. but not HAF A SAY.. cos haf a say means that they got rights to tell our govt wat to do.. which in fact hor.. no foreigner has this right.. our govt is paid by singapolang's taxes, rite? n singapolang voted in the ppl into govt, rite?

wat did foreigners do? they got no voting rights. ya they pay taxes, but i hor, dun think they got contribute to building singapo from independence.. till now lor. Our grand parents, or even great grand parents did the hard work.. so that their later generations hor, can enjoy their hard labour.. not for chao foreigners to take anyhow.

if this guy not a citizen, he can talk.. but not haf a say.. n he hor, should be careful where he say things, or where he write things.. cos nobody likes an outsider to meddle in their "house" or "family" affairs. Outsiders.. betta stay out!!

 

[Ash007]

Re: Question - A foreigner lived here for 15 years, married a Sg woman and has childr

And hence the push for more FTs to be citizens. We need more people in Singapore to vote for the ruling party, unlike the ingrats locals.

 

[neddy]

Re: Question - A foreigner lived here for 15 years, married a Sg woman and has childr

I have a question.. and I am curious as to how all in this forum think or feel.

Let's say a foreigner married a sg woman, has kids, and has stayed here for over 15 years.
His wife and kids are all Sg citizens, but he is not.

If one day, this foreigner writes or says or puts his thoughts on Sg affairs, whether it's politics or social or whatever.. do you all think he has every right to?

As a resident of Singapore, and one with vested interests that benefit Singapore (meaning kids), he has every right to speak out.

Based on your logic.
I know of a few Singaporeans who are selling out Singapore jobs to foreigners. I can also ask why are these traitors keeping their Singapore citizenship when they are loyal to their foreigners & money.

Citizenship these days are no longer as valuable because of what PAP did (giving them out for cash) and did not do (openly allow dual citizenships for locals but allow that privilege for the elites and special foreigners).

It is the heart that counts. Foreigners who benefit Singapore long term by producing kids that serve NS is one of them. A lot of Malaysians contribute to Singapore but still do not convert to pink IC for many reasons.

Moreover, I know too many Singaporeans are keeping quiet on the affairs of Singapore. These quiet majority are not doing their national duties.

 

[po2wq]

Re: Question - A foreigner lived here for 15 years, married a Sg woman and has childr

... but please share your thoughts and views, thank you.

u got c dat o man? ... never stay in usa, china b4 ... stil so k-po tel ppl how 2 do tings ... publish book summor ... n like 2 tink dat ppl like 2 listen 2 his views ... how? ... can tel dat burger 2 stfu? ...

 

[Tension68]

Re: Question - A foreigner lived here for 15 years, married a Sg woman and has childr

u got c dat o man? ... never stay in usa, china b4 ... stil so k-po tel ppl how 2 do tings ... publish book summor ... n like 2 tink dat ppl like 2 listen 2 his views ... how? ... can tel dat burger 2 stfu? ...

u try lor.. maybe he so jialat tat he wun notice u.
but u off topic la!!

i jus say dis, if foreigner come, marry sg woman, they haf kids.. (kids not do NS yet ah).. and this guy not citizen.. but want to HAVE A SAY.. not say out loud about things ah.. u mean he really got RIGHTs to meh?

I disagree. he not citizen, how to haf A SAY? He can tok.. he can shout.. (if he not scared neighbour complain la).. but I dun agree that he can HAVE A SAY in sg's affairs.

and if u tok of that old man.. politicians will tok about other countries de la.. u c mahatir.. he olso say SG, Indo.. USA.. say only mah. But he dare to go there and try to HAF A SAY? He dare to go meddle?

even old man olso cant meddle in PRC affairs.. even it SG has vested interests.. rembr Suzhou? the industrial park thing?

old man got go to PRC ma.. got use meh? U not their citizen.. how u fight?

learn from ah tiong! u not their countrymen.. fcuk u upside down u olso cant say anything.

 

[winnipegjets]

Re: Question - A foreigner lived here for 15 years, married a Sg woman and has childr

As a resident of Singapore, and one with vested interests that benefit Singapore (meaning kids), he has every right to speak out.

You depreciate the value of citizenship. Anyone can be a resident in sinkapore, the PAP government gives it out like toilet paper ...and they want to dish out another 2 million of it.

I know of a few Singaporeans who are selling out Singapore jobs to foreigners. I can also ask why are these traitors keeping their Singapore citizenship when they are loyal to their foreigners & money.

Because these traitors don't have other citizenship. If there is some other land that would want to take them, we should strip them of citizenship.

Citizenship these days are no longer as valuable because of what PAP did (giving them out for cash) and did not do (openly allow dual citizenships for locals but allow that privilege for the elites and special foreigners).

It is valuable in many countries. In sinkapore, it is valuable too ...because they can't take it away from you until they can find you another country to move to.

It is the heart that counts. Foreigners who benefit Singapore long term by producing kids that serve NS is one of them. A lot of Malaysians contribute to Singapore but still do not convert to pink IC for many reasons.

Because these Malaysians are here to make their living but not to retire here. Sinkees don't have that option. Even LKY doesn't want foreigners to critique on affairs of sinkapore. We are just following the Emperor's example.

Moreover, I know too many Singaporeans are keeping quiet on the affairs of Singapore. These quiet majority are not doing their national duties.

Kiasi and kaisu. They need to be awaken. Not everyone has the time to learn the realities of life in sinkapore ...government makes sure that you are busy with work, helping your kids with school work and now, to make babies. Where got time for people to follow issues?

 

[Agoraphobic]

Re: Question - A foreigner lived here for 15 years, married a Sg woman and has childr

As long as one is Human, one has the right to speak, about anything, anyone, anywhere. Whether anyone else listens is another thing.

Cheers!

 

[DuYunQi]

Re: Question - A foreigner lived here for 15 years, married a Sg woman and has childr

Ok, so some have posted that this person has a right to post his views on SG's affairs.

Fair. Anybody, and everybody, would have their own opinion on matters.. any matters.. if he or she so wishes to say, write or otherwise any method they want.

Now.. my next question is.. does this person, who is not a SG citizen, have any right to HAVE A SAY in SG's affairs?

I hope I don't have to explain the difference between "have a right to say/write/post/etc ", and "a right to have a say".

What "say" you all?

 

[peppertail]

Re: Question - A foreigner lived here for 15 years, married a Sg woman and has childr

I hope I don't have to explain the difference between "have a right to say/write/post/etc ", and "a right to have a say".

To be honest, i think it would be really helpful for this debate if you could clarify that. Thanks.

 

[DuYunQi]

Re: Question - A foreigner lived here for 15 years, married a Sg woman and has childr

To be honest, i think it would be really helpful for this debate if you could clarify that. Thanks.

... and you mentioned your English was ok..??

Good grief!!! A mod and doesn't uderstand this simple meaning? (I remember this was explained to me when I was in pri 5, when we tried a simple short debate in class)

 

[peppertail]

Re: Question - A foreigner lived here for 15 years, married a Sg woman and has childr

... and you mentioned your English was ok..??

Good grief!!! A mod and doesn't uderstand this simple meaning? (I remember this was explained to me when I was in pri 5, when we tried a simple short debate in class)

Nevermind, this is not the right place to argue. Good luck with your thread.

 

[Tension68]

Re: Question - A foreigner lived here for 15 years, married a Sg woman and has childr

Nevermind, this is not the right place to argue. Good luck with your thread.

Mod can't even answer a simple thing ah?
and get angry hor?
then use authority and power to push aside this and put elsewhere

Good lor. U got mod power, can dun answer and act blur.

wakao.. u win oledi man

And i answer for bro Du ba
haf a right to haf say is like got citizenship.. so got a real document to prove that the country thing he/she can voice not only opinion hor.. but olso cast vote and make a change in govt.

u got a right to say or write anything u feel.. but hor.. hafing a right to haf a say in a country's affairs.. diff la.
lousy English u got la German. Stay in SG n mix only wif Germans hor, u wun improve ur English.
mix more la.. and get to noe mre abt SG ppl.. and stuff.

I think ur 15yrs stay here hor.. wasted.. no cultural exchange.. only got a SG wife n den bo liao.
pity u lor

 

[Agoraphobic]

Re: Question - A foreigner lived here for 15 years, married a Sg woman and has childr

...... does this person, who is not a SG citizen, have any right to HAVE A SAY in SG's affairs?

.........

Under Old School PAP, even citizens do not have a right to have a say.

Cheers!

 

[DuYunQi]

Re: Question - A foreigner lived here for 15 years, married a Sg woman and has childr

Under Old School PAP, even citizens do not have a right to have a say.

Cheers!

Perhaps in the earlier years, not every SG citizen can say that he or she knows what to say or what to suggest, to have any positive effect on the country's future.. but it's not the same in current day's SG citizens.

Even those who do not possess higher education, understand that their views matter. And many are just now.. realising that if they do not voice out or speak up on their own experiences, as a SG citizen.. then their voices might forever be lost.. or drowned out by the current "spam" in the local media.

Again.. I feel that citizenship gives a person that RIGHT to have any say in their own country's affairs. Therefore, if any other person, who is not a citizen, and feels that he or she has a right to have any say in a country's affairs, especially when he or she is not a citizen of that country he or she is thinking of having a say about.. can do the right thing by forgoing or giving up their original citizenship, and taking up the citizenship of the country that he or she wants to have a say in.

Don't crap out by saying that "I got a wife or kids here and I want to have a say...", or "I have business here and I want to have a say.."

When you are not a citizen, your rights as an individual in a foreign land, is as much as what is GIVEN to you by that country. Nothing more, nothing less. To even think that you have a right to have a say, when you are not a citizen.. is dellusional.

 

[scroobal]

Re: Question - A foreigner lived here for 15 years, married a Sg woman and has childr

Everyone residing or working in Singapore would have a say and these should be welcomed. However comments from non-locals would carry less weight unlike locals who have a stake in this country. Its the same reason why votes are only given to citizens.

Our issue as locals is that we have allowed this govt to run wild with little accountability. The issue is not whether foreigners have a say in this country or not but we should control our own govt better. A fews slaps every now and then should help. People like Lawrence Wong who is an absolute newbie as an MP and political office holder should learn how to make comments that are not condescending or patronising. He should be more humble and must constantly remind him self that he draws a bigger pay packet than Obama for a job that is a light years apart from the American President.

 

[bullfrog]

Re: Question - A foreigner lived here for 15 years, married a Sg woman and has childr

TS,

As a non-citizen, he can say all he wants to say, but when it comes to the vote, he got no say. That is clear. Like club membership mah. Some are called associates or social members, can join in the club activities etc but come AGM, no voting rights lah. He can scream all he wants.

Hope that is clear!

 

[DuYunQi]

Re: Question - A foreigner lived here for 15 years, married a Sg woman and has childr

From what scrooball has posted, I do agree that the govt has lose it's way and identity as both the majority party in parliament (I refuse to call them "ruling" as that is exactly how they seem to want to do things) and a representative of their constitutients and voters.

However, you cannot deny that even without such cronies as the govt now, there will always be foreigners who dream that they have a right to have a say wherever they go, even when they are not citizens in that country. As such, both the govt, as well as the locals, should kick these numbskulls back into their homelands to do their antics.

To dear bullfrog, you are correct. Which is why I posted that even if they do harbour such thoughts.. it is entirely dellusional.

But seriously, I get the feeling that because of what the govt has done.. giving them such a big credit to our economy and what not, it seems to have given some of these foreigners a sense of bigotry and arrogance.

I spit on those in parliament who still say "we need foreigners to support our ageing and greying population", for you can never trust them fully. Look at the number of domestic helpers who DON'T look after the elderly and kids. Do you expect foreigners to really look after you when YOU are OLD? Try "getting abused and robbed" for a better prediction of the future (this is to the MPs in parliament who support the stupid white paper oopulation)

On an end note, I am fine with foreigners who come here for tour (not that there's much to see, but hey, it's their choice), to invest and start business and employ SG locals. But my patience ends when all kinds of foreigners come here to grab a piece of the pie (working opportunities), when already this island nation is so small.

Think about it, pinoy land is bigger than us by so much.. yet they come here to find jobs???!!! If our currency is not better than theirs when exchanged, do you think they would come? If no employers are willing to employ them, even they are cheap.. because they are not skilled and their qualifications are not recognized, will they still come to SG?

I once heard my classmate in USA say that "with a bigger land that your country has, there should be more opportunities to do more stuff other than find jobs". I agree with him. So why are pinoys, PRCs, ah nehs all coming here? Our passports? Some fcuks in MNCs, SMEs or even GLCs welcome them with both open arms and open legs?

Don't think you have a right to have a say, foreigner. Cos you DON'T!!
May 1st is another event.. let's see how many turns up. I feel that Change is beginnnig to raise it's head at a political party.. and if it still doesn't wake up.. it will shatter and self-implode soon.