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drawbacks of using TOR

independentdirect

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Most people are lulled into a false sense of security when they think that by tunneling Tor over VPN, they will remain anonymous.

Your grouses against win OS seem most legitimate. I run Tor-Vidalia bundle off a thumbdrive, no plugins, and no windows applications open. No other browsers open. WOuld that be secure enough?

Also would like to ask, for vpn, should i choose udp or tcp protocol?
 

Dinosaur

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Your grouses against win OS seem most legitimate. I run Tor-Vidalia bundle off a thumbdrive, no plugins, and no windows applications open. No other browsers open. WOuld that be secure enough?

1. What OS are you using- MS Windows or Mac OS?

2. Where did you install the OS- on the C:\ partition of your primary HDD or.....?

3. Can you guarantee that all the installed software and MS Windows' services are torrified (meaning all connections to the internet are forced to use the Tor network)?

You must know that even though you don't launch any particular software, its hidden services are running in the background. Some of them may even be clandestinely making connections to the internet. Moreover some of MS Windows' services are critical (read: cannot be shut down manually) to the efficient running of the computer and some of them do connect to the internet. Under such conditions, identity and data leaks can occur.

4. If your answer to (3) above is in the negative, rethink on how you could improve your anonymity on the net.

Also would like to ask, for vpn, should i choose udp or tcp protocol?

The short answer is: it depends and neither is better than the other. It's like asking which soft drink is better: Pepsi Cola or Coca Cola.

The long answer is as follows:

UDP is a connectionless protocol, so during the handshake it is not always possible to do an effective error correction. As a result, when there's high ping or low quality line during the OpenVPN login, the handshake may fail, although you could see no significant problem after (if) the connection is established. TCP is capable of handling these problems.

On the other hand, UDP is more efficient once the connection is established.

If you experience problems with VoIP video/audio conversations when connected to the VPN through a TCP port, a typical case for which a difference may be visible (TCP over VoIP -i.e. usually TCP over UDP- is clearly inferior to UDP over VoIP because TCP implements ARQ, UDP does not), then go for an UDP connection.

In general, you should always try an UDP connection if your ISP allows it and you don't experience any problem during the handshake.

A particular case is a connection over TOR or over an http-proxy. In this case, using a TCP port is mandatory.

Variety of ports (53, 80, 443) is an additional option to try to bypass country or ISPs blocks, or bandwidth management.
 
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independentdirect

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This is great info, Dinosaur.

Currently, I'm using win xp, running tor-vidalia bundle off my thumb in combination with a VPN that uses TCP.

As for my social networking sites, they don't contain any personal info other than name and picture. Use it mainly to post articles and talk to friends / relatives. No private info there, and absolutely no links there to my blog or my forum identity or to anything that I need to keep anonymous.




1. What OS are you using- MS Windows or Mac OS?

2. Where did you install the OS- on the C:\ partition of your primary HDD or.....?

3. Can you guarantee that all the installed software and MS Windows' services are torrified (meaning all connections to the internet are forced to use the Tor network)?
 

Dinosaur

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As for my social networking sites, they don't contain any personal info other than name and picture. Use it mainly to post articles and talk to friends / relatives. No private info there, and absolutely no links there to my blog or my forum identity or to anything that I need to keep anonymous.

Even though you may have given no details about yourself at social networking sites, you can still be identified and tracked down. Facebook, Twitter and Youtube, inter alia, are notorius for storing cookies, tracking bugs and web bugs on your computer.

The moment you sign up for an account with them, you receive tons of "malware" on your PC. You are tracked even if you don't log in to to their sites.

Tor-Vidalia is an anonymity tool, not a security one. I am sure you know the differences between them.

I suggest that you read the following carefully:

https://www.torproject.org/docs/faq.html.en

https://www.torproject.org/torbutton/torbutton-faq.html.en#noflash

https://tails.boum.org/doc/about/warning/index.en.html
 
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JavaMocco

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Even though you may have given no details about yourself at social networking sites, you can still be identified and tracked down. Facebook, Twitter and Youtube, inter alia, are notorius for storing cookies, tracking bugs and web bugs on your computer.

The moment you sign up for an account with them, you receive tons of "malware" on your PC. You are tracked even if you don't log in to to their sites.

Tor-Vidalia is an anonymity tool, not a security one. I am sure you know that the differences between them.

I suggest that you read the following carefully:

https://www.torproject.org/docs/faq.html.en

https://www.torproject.org/torbutton/torbutton-faq.html.en#noflash

https://tails.boum.org/doc/about/warning/index.en.html

Thank u but i will still use them. :wink:
 

Aprilia

New Member
Even though you may have given no details about yourself at social networking sites, you can still be identified and tracked down. Facebook, Twitter and Youtube, inter alia, are notorius for storing cookies, tracking bugs and web bugs on your computer.

Using TOR or strong VPN is still better than u don't.
 

independentdirect

Alfrescian
Loyal
The moment you sign up for an account with them, you receive tons of "malware" on your PC. You are tracked even if you don't log in to to their sites.

Tor-Vidalia is an anonymity tool, not a security one. I am sure you know that the differences between them.

I suggest that you read the following carefully:

https://www.torproject.org/docs/faq.html.en

https://www.torproject.org/torbutton/torbutton-faq.html.en#noflash

https://tails.boum.org/doc/about/warning/index.en.html


Thanks, will read them all.

Another Q: If I use tor over vpn, should I load my tor browser first then connect to vpn, or the other way round?
 

Dinosaur

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Thanks, will read them all.

Another Q: If I use tor over vpn, should I load my tor browser first then connect to vpn, or the other way round?

1. What is the name of your VPN service provider?

2. How did you pay for it? Cash, credit card, PayPal, Bitcoin, Liberty Reserve?

Without this info, I may give you the wrong advice. If you are uncomfortable in giving it out, it's perfectly within your right.
 
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independentdirect

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Loyal
1. What is the name of your VPN service provider?

2. How did you pay for it? Cash, credit card, PayPal, Bitcoin, Liberty Reserve?

Without this info, I may give you the wrong advice. If you are uncomfortable in giving it out, it's perfectly within your right.


1. Airvpn

2. Bitcoin
 

Dinosaur

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1. Airvpn

2. Bitcoin

Did you use an anonymity tool to sign up for an email account?
Was this email account used to sign up for an AirVPN account?
Did you use an anonymity tool to sign up for an AirVPN account?
Did you buy Bitcoins anonymously by using cash and through a third party?

Even if your answer to each of the above is "Yes", you can still be tracked:

1. Bitcoin's service is not 100% anonymous. Interpol has been keeping a close eye on it as it is very popular among money-launderers.

2. AirVPN, based in Italy, is a one-man setup. Though it professes to not keep logs, I won't count on it to keep its promise.

As for the merits of using AirVPN over Tor (or Tor over AirVPN), see the following article:

August 2012


There are many discussions on the Tor Mailing list and spread over many forums about combining Tor with a VPN, SSH and/or a proxy in different variations. X in this article stands for, "either a VPN, SSH or proxy". All different ways to combine Tor with X have different pros and cons.

general

Anonymity and Privacy

You can very well decrease your anonymity by using VPN/SSH in addition to Tor. (Proxies are covered in an extra chapter below.) If you know what you are doing you can increase anonymity, security and privacy.
Most VPN/SSH provider log, there is a money trail, if you can't pay really anonymously. (An adversary is always going to probe the weakest link first...). A VPN/SSH acts either as a permanent entry or as a permanent exit node. This can introduce new risks while solving others.
Who's your adversary? Against a global adversary with unlimited resources more hops make passive attacks (slightly) harder but active attacks easier as you are providing more attack surface and send out more data that can be used. Against colluding Tor nodes you are safer, against blackhat hackers who target Tor client code you are safer (especially if Tor and VPN run on two different systems). If the VPN/SSH server is adversary controlled you weaken the protection provided by Tor. If the server is trustworthy you can increase the anonymity and/or privacy (depending on set up) provided by Tor.
VPN/SSH can also be used to circumvent Tor censorship (on your end by the ISP or on the service end by blocking known tor exits).

VPN/SSH versus Proxy

The connection between you and the VPN/SSH is (in most cases, not all) encrypted.
On the other hand the connection between you and an OpenProxy is unencrypted. An 'SSL proxy' is in most cases only a http proxy which supports the connect method. The connect method was originally designed to allow you to use to connect using SSL to webservers but other fancy things such as connecting to IRC, SSH, etc. are possible as well. Another disadvantage of http(s) proxies is, that some of them, depending on your network setup, even leak your IP through the 'http forwarded for' header. (Such proxies are also so called 'non-anonymous proxies'. While the word anonymous has to be understood with care anyway, a single OpenProxy is much worse than Tor).
Also read Aren't 10 proxies (proxychains) better than Tor with only 3 hops? - proxychains vs Tor.

VPN versus SSH or Proxy

VPN operates on network level. A SSH tunnel can offer a socks5 proxy. Proxies operate on application level. These technical details introduce their own challenges when combining them with Tor.
The problematic thing with many VPN users is, the complicated setup. They connect to the VPN on a machine, which has direct access to the internet.

  • the VPN user may forget to connect to the VPN first
  • VPN connection might breaks down and the user continues to use the direct connection, which jumps in
To fix this issue you can get some hints from TorVPN.
When operating on the application level (using SSH tunnel socks5 or proxies), the problem is that many applications do not honor the proxy settings. Have a look into the Torify HOWTO to get an idea.
The most secure solution to mitigate those issues is to use transparent proxying, which is possible for VPN, SSH and proxies.

you -> X -> Tor

Some people under some circumstances (country, provider) are forced to use a VPN or a proxy to connect to the internet. Other people want to do that for other reasons, which we will also discuss.

you -> VPN/SSH -> Tor

You can route Tor through VPN/SSH services. That prevents your ISP etc from seeing that you're using Tor. Generally, VPNs are more popular than Tor, so you won't stand out as much. SSH tunnels are not so popular.
Once the VPN client has connected, the VPN tunnel will be the machine's default Internet connection, and the Tor Browser Bundle will route through it.
This can be a fine idea, assuming your VPN/SSH provider's network is in fact sufficiently safer than your own network.
Another advantage here is that it prevents Tor from seeing who you are behind the VPN/SSH. So if somebody does manage to break Tor and learn the IP address your traffic is coming from, but your VPN/SSH was actually following through on their promises (they won't watch, they won't remember, and they will somehow magically make it so nobody else is watching either), then you'll be better off.

you -> proxy -> Tor

This does not prevent your ISP etc from seeing that you're using Tor because the connection between your and the proxy is not encrypted.
Sometimes this prevents Tor from seeing who you are depending on the configuration on the side of the proxy server. So if somebody does manage to break Tor and learn the IP address your traffic is coming from, but your proxy does not log an the attacker didn't see the unencrypted connection between your and the proxy, then you'll be better off.

you -> Tor -> x

This is generally a really poor plan.
Some people do this to evade Tor bans in many places. (When Tor exit nodes are blacklisted by the remote server.)
(Read first for understanding: How often does Tor change its paths?.)
Normally Tor switches frequently its path through the network. When you choose a permanent destination X, you give away this advantage, which may have serious repercussions for your anonymity.

you -> Tor -> VPN/SSH

You can also route VPN/SSH services through Tor. That hides and secures your Internet activity from Tor exit nodes. Although you are exposed to VPN/SSH exit nodes, you at least get to choose them. If you're using VPN/SSHs in this way, you'll want to pay for them anonymously (cash in the mail [beware of your fingerprint and printer fingerprint], Liberty Reserve, well-laundered Bitcoin, etc).
However, you can't readily do this without using virtual machines. And you'll need to use TCP mode for the VPNs (to route through Tor). In our experience, establishing VPN connections through Tor is chancy, and requires much tweaking.
Even if you pay for them anonymously, you're making a bottleneck where all your traffic goes -- the VPN/SSH can build a profile of everything you do, and over time that will probably be really dangerous.

you -> Tor -> proxy

You can also route proxy connections through Tor. That does not hide and secure your Internet activity from Tor exit nodes because the connection between the exit node to the proxy is not encrypted, not one, but two parties may log and manipulate your clear traffic now. If you're using proxies in this way, you'll want to pay for them anonymously (cash in the mail [beware of your fingerprint and printer fingerprint], Liberty Reserve, well-laundered Bitcoin, etc) or use free proxies.
On way to do that is proxychains.
Another way would be to use a Transparent Proxy and then either proxify (set proxy settings) or socksify (use helper applications to force your application to use a proxy) the programs your want to chain inside your Transparent Proxy client machine, see for helper applications.

you -> X -> Tor -> X

No research on that yet if that is technically possible. This is because already 'you -> Tor -> X' is a really poor plan (see above).

you -> your own (local) VPN server -> Tor

This is different from above. You do not have to pay a VPN provider here as you host your own local VPN server. This won't protect you from your ISP of seeing you connect to Tor and this also won't protect you from spying Tor exit servers.
This is done to enforce, that all your traffic routes through Tor without any leaks. Further read: TorVPN. If you want this, it may unnecessary to use VPN, a simple Tor-Gateway may be easier, for example Whonix.

Also See



Practical



  • If you still want to combine Tor with a proxy, all combinations are possible using Whonix (anonymous general purpose operating system). Whonix's optional configurations document this.

Source: https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/doc/TorPlusVPN
 
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