Audi and VW Cars

[king_of_abalone]

I always wonder why people don't import turbo charges or super charged cars as well as rotary engine cars. All these cars have smaller cc and produce much more HPs. For example, A 1.3 litre Mazda RX-8 rotary wankel engine can produce up to 238 hps. that must be a good way to get around all the CC related COEs.

The RX8 is probably the only mass produced rotary-engined RWD car in the world today. And its looks repel more than attract, judging by its sales figures relative to its spiritual predecessor, the RX 7.

One thing about the rotary engine. It runs very hot and burns off engine oil very quickly. Top ups are required every now and then between servicing intervals.

 

[king_of_abalone]

German automakers plan to make as much money if not more from servicing their cars and selling parts than they actually make from selling a new car. That is why simple parts are designed to fail so that you have to go back to the dealer to order parts which they make a profit off. The oil pan drain lug on my Bimmer was made of metal so soft that the threads wore out after a few years. Finally, one mechanic had to drill the nut out because they could nto remove it. I have never seen such a crap before, than I realised that Bimmer did this deliberately to earn more money.

It is called planned obsolescence and most products have it, even those designed and made in Japan. If not, the companies will close down due to lack of enough new sales revenues.

 

[Fook Seng]

I own a turbo charged car, and there is nothing wrong with the torque. U sure u know what u are talking about or not? We are talking about ccs here. For example, the new BMW 2 litre engine is a 4 cylinder twin turbo design, that produces the HP of a V6 for the cc of a 4 cylinder. It has 240 hp which you normally will get in a 3 litre V6 and not a 4 cylinder. So, if you are paying COE based on cc, you would rather pay for a 2 litre versus a 3 litre, especially when the performance is the same. If you don't think a smaller engine with twin turbo like the BMW has torque, I suggest u go and drive one.

What I was saying is that for a country with such restricted speed limit of just 90 kmph as Singapore, the benefits you can derive from a high hp engine cannot be fully realised. You will not get to use that hp.

Yes there is higher torque at the higher hp and perhaps some extra torque as well at some lower segment of the power curve but before you can utilise that much hp you have to slow down.

BMW engines are noted for an extremely flat torque curve which means that even at low revolution, the torque is already quite strong and that is where the pulling power comes from. BMW is probably the last of the marques to introduce turbo engines in an executive sedan because of this. Both their engine hp and the torque did not necessitate the change until in the recent couple of generations.

I have the opportunity to compare a 2-litre Honda Accord with a 2-litre BMW 5. And inspite of the heavier bulk, the BMW was a more spirited drive with higher acceleration. My comments are applicable to the Singapore condition, basically city driving. Unless you are travelling full load most of the time or you enjoy racing with sports category cars, you actually do not need to have a higher hp engine to be ahead of the field than a naturally aspirated engine found in a BMW.

 

[Froggy]

What I was saying is that for a country with such restricted speed limit of just 90 kmph as Singapore, the benefits you can derive from a high hp engine cannot be fully realised. You will not get to use that hp.

Yes there is higher torque at the higher hp and perhaps some extra torque as well at some lower segment of the power curve but before you can utilise that much hp you have to slow down.

BMW engines are noted for an extremely flat torque curve which means that even at low revolution, the torque is already quite strong and that is where the pulling power comes from. BMW is probably the last of the marques to introduce turbo engines in an executive sedan because of this. Both their engine hp and the torque did not necessitate the change until in the recent couple of generations.

I have the opportunity to compare a 2-litre Honda Accord with a 2-litre BMW 5. And inspite of the heavier bulk, the BMW was a more spirited drive with higher acceleration. My comments are applicable to the Singapore condition, basically city driving. Unless you are travelling full load most of the time or you enjoy racing with sports category cars, you actually do not need to have a higher hp engine to be ahead of the field than a naturally aspirated engine found in a BMW.

Fook Seng, I must say I am lucky to live in Bangkok where speed limit is 120 km/h but no one really care as most are doing 150 km/h and above in the tollways. Here you can really speeeeed.

 

[Papsmearer]

What I was saying is that for a country with such restricted speed limit of just 90 kmph as Singapore, the benefits you can derive from a high hp engine cannot be fully realised. You will not get to use that hp.

Yes there is higher torque at the higher hp and perhaps some extra torque as well at some lower segment of the power curve but before you can utilise that much hp you have to slow down.

BMW engines are noted for an extremely flat torque curve which means that even at low revolution, the torque is already quite strong and that is where the pulling power comes from. BMW is probably the last of the marques to introduce turbo engines in an executive sedan because of this. Both their engine hp and the torque did not necessitate the change until in the recent couple of generations.

I have the opportunity to compare a 2-litre Honda Accord with a 2-litre BMW 5. And inspite of the heavier bulk, the BMW was a more spirited drive with higher acceleration. My comments are applicable to the Singapore condition, basically city driving. Unless you are travelling full load most of the time or you enjoy racing with sports category cars, you actually do not need to have a higher hp engine to be ahead of the field than a naturally aspirated engine found in a BMW.

My whole point was because COE, ARF, and what not are based on how big your car engine is, why not go for a smaller car engine that is turbo or super charged or a rotary engine, in order to get around this and save the money.

 

[eatshitndie]

German automakers plan to make as much money if not more from servicing their cars and selling parts than they actually make from selling a new car. That is why simple parts are designed to fail so that you have to go back to the dealer to order parts which they make a profit off. The oil pan drain lug on my Bimmer was made of metal so soft that the threads wore out after a few years. Finally, one mechanic had to drill the nut out because they could nto remove it. I have never seen such a crap before, than I realised that Bimmer did this deliberately to earn more money.

don't know about the bmw dealerships in sg, but over on my side, which is one of the largest markets for bmw, all new cars are offered with a worry-free, zero-cost, 5-year service and maintenance program. and it includes oil change, filters, parts and components bumper to bumper except tires. the idea is to spoil the owner so much with hassle-free service and maintenance that once the 5-year period is over, the owner is tempted to buy a new car and start the cycle all over again. the prospect of servicing, maintaining and repairing a bmw after the 5-year deal is daunting to the wallet. moreover, those who can part with their money usually get a new model after 3 to 4 years anyway.

 

[Fook Seng]

My whole point was because COE, ARF, and what not are based on how big your car engine is, why not go for a smaller car engine that is turbo or super charged or a rotary engine, in order to get around this and save the money.

COE is more or less quite neutralized except for the small cars category. 2-litre and 3-litre cars are in fact in the same category, so no difference in fact. ARF is based on landed price, I believe, not related to engine capacity. Road tax is though but nobody bats an eye lid at road taxes nowadays as it is the smallest component of cost.

If you must get a car of a certain hp, I have to agree with you that getting a turbo could be cheaper than getting a higher capacity engine but if other factors such as turbo lag (which can be reduced by good engineering albeit at additional cost), refinement etc, the worthiness of the trade-offs depend on one's requirements in getting the car.

 

[Conqueror]

Ass Loong's Ambition

look at Samsung, Kia, Hyundai. Where were they 10 years ago? And look where they are now.

The Singapore Govt should take a long hard look at how the Koreans had managed to do it.

Don't worry. With LHL thinking of having a nuclear energy reactor in Sinkiesland, we 'can' rest assured that this bright spark will turn Merlion City into cinder.

 

[Cerebral]

VWs and Audis are assembled in China so its cheaper there. An A6 cost only around RMB450,000 (S$90,000). They have also been in the China market very early. Audi has been there since Mao's time. The Chinese think that these cars are fuel economy and very stable - suitable for inter provincial travelling. Communist party memebers also prefer black Audis than Merc or BMW as they don't want to "attract too muvh attention" since its a common luxury car there. They also think that the Germans will sell the cars "as it is", unlike the Japs who will sell

Thinking of buying a Jap/Korean car but my customer told me it makes more sense to buy European cars who have lower fuel capacity (thus cheaper COE) and more fuel efficient but offers more horsepower than Jap cars. There are also better in safety and construction.

I disagree with European Cars having more horsepower. The reason why most people think so is because most European cars have to conform to strict emission standards and to get around it, plus their heavy bodies, they typically put in a lightweight turbo or supercharger, e.g. Merc AMG series. Without it, European models will not cut it. Instead of looking at pure Horsepower, try looking at Power to Weight ratio.

The choice between Jap car or a European model will depend on your needs. Are you looking for status, fuel efficiency, comfort or raw power at affordable cost. There are best in class for each of these considerations and you need to think carefully on what you want.

Japanese models and European models approach safety in different manner. European models tend to use heavier materials to absorb the collision, while Japanese models rather they crumble to disperse the collision force. I am generalising here, but just so to help you understand

 

[Cestbon]

Now AUDI and VW have the best engine in their car - small, powerful and fuel efficient.
Other brand need to catch up.

 

[Papsmearer]

don't know about the bmw dealerships in sg, but over on my side, which is one of the largest markets for bmw, all new cars are offered with a worry-free, zero-cost, 5-year service and maintenance program. and it includes oil change, filters, parts and components bumper to bumper except tires. the idea is to spoil the owner so much with hassle-free service and maintenance that once the 5-year period is over, the owner is tempted to buy a new car and start the cycle all over again. the prospect of servicing, maintaining and repairing a bmw after the 5-year deal is daunting to the wallet. moreover, those who can part with their money usually get a new model after 3 to 4 years anyway.

Singapore Performance motors where got this fantasy?

 

[Papsmearer]

Then you are moving in the wrong circles, my friend.

i can count 2 M5's, 3 M3's, 2 335i, 1 135i, 1 Z4M, 1 535i, in my circle of friends. And i haven't mentioned the AMG and RS yet, as well as the hot limited editon Boxster Spyder yet

Nothing wrong with the circle of friends I move in. Unlike u, I do not require my circle of friends to own M5s, M3s, BMWs, etc.

 

[Cerebral]

Such engines are normally noisier and less refined. Especially with Singapore, a higher HP would not get you much faster but a higher torque might.

That is why in Singapore, the popular Bemee engines are the naturally aspirated engines with a very flat torque curve that promotes quick acceleration from standstill which is what is required by most drivers. Overtaking at speed at expressways can also be done with the torque that is in reserve in these engines.

A high HP really comes in if you need to drive at close to 200 kmph and above, not at 90 kmph speed limits or even at 120 kmph that some drivers do when no one is looking.

Wankel engines noisier and less refined??? You serious? Wankels have one of the smoothest engines around, albeit a very linear power band

 

[GoldenDragon]

To All Bros Who Contributed: Thank you. Found most of the contribution very informative.