Police Create Their Own Problems Then Start Boasting of Their Raids

[GoldenDragon]

I used to operate a KTV until sometime last year when I decided enough was enough. As most niteclubbers are fully aware, all niteclubs in S'pore commit offences when they open their doors for business. There are no legal hostesses anymore. Not even in Lido Palace, Dynasty or TianAnMen.

Long, long time ago, we had locals and M'sians working as hostesses. About 10 years ago, the proliferation of PRC women led to M'sians heading home northwards and S'porean hostesses just vanished to their homes. The Viets, PRCs, Thais and Filipinos took centre stage.

Surely the Polce is aware of this change 10 years ago. But they are doing absolutely nothing. All they do and do and do and as reported in the press, is the continued raids and raids against niteclubs. Are these raids even needed in the first place? Perhaps. But let's not waste precious manpower and time concentrating on these niteclubs.

Have they considered issuing work permits to these niteclubs to hire PRC hostesses? For 1000 sq ft, 10 hostesses. For every extra 1000sq ft, 10 more hostesses. It's win-win for all. The government gets money from levies imposed, the niteclubs dont commit offences, less raids and resources needed so the cops can have better things to do like concentrating on other key matters.

In my past conversations with fellow niteclub owners, some of us felt that the reason behind not issuing work permits to these PRCs could be political. The Chinese authorities and its embassy in S'pore might get offended and we all know S'pore cannot afford to offend China. That's the reality. We are a small island, city-state.

However, about 2 years ago, PRC women were recruited for work in the brothels in Geylang. Meaning, they are now officially recognised as sex workers. They took over the role once filled by M'sian women.

If we can have sex workers recognised in Geylang why cant we issue work permits to hostesses from China like we do for Filipina maids, singers from China, construction workers from India, Thailand and Bangladesh?

Another issue that dominated our discussion was the targets for police raids. They suka suka raid all over but they are not known to be agressive against Lido Palace. Why? Is it because top civil servants, police officers and leading local businessmen patronize Lido? Is that fair? Billionaire Peter LIm is a regular. I rest my case.

From my source, even Dennis Foo is considered an untouchable! We concluded it was because of his connections or his bosses' connections.
Also excluded is Johnny Quek of Dynasty. Why? Ex-mata. Connections again?

My point is, with better initiatives and policies, the police need not waste time and effort in trying to solve or suppress problems that they themselves created or chose not to confront.

Either issue the work permits for these hostesses from China or bar all PRC women under the age of 30 from entering S'pore. In the case of the latter, all the niteclub problems can be solved. Coz they will have to close down without the PRCs.

Scroobal, what say you? Must admit I am very impressed with your knowledge on a wide range of matters. Not only your knowledge but the accuracy of it all. Truly impressive.

I enjoyed reading your comments on ex-CP Khoo Boon Hui and the current CP, Ng Joo Hee. If I may add, if the ex-CP was that great, Wong Kan Seng would have handed him the 2PS post. Not a Senior DS post which is a slap on Khoo's face and backside. It simply means Khoo at age 56 is not equal to Leo Yip at 42 or 43 yrs old. Or, Khoo is only slightly better than Aubeck Kam when the latter was in his mid or late 30s.

Ng Joo Hee? Well, he became CP by default. Really shocked everybody. Eric Tan, CPIB director would have been a far better choice.

 

[Frankiestine]

the reason behind not issuing work permits to these PRCs could be political. The Chinese authorities and its embassy in S'pore might get offended and we all know S'pore cannot afford to offend China.
However, about 2 years ago, PRC women were recruited for work in the brothels in Geylang. Meaning, they are now officially recognised as sex workers. They took over the role once filled by M'sian women.

Don't think its a political issue, if not your mentioned of PRC prostitutes for the legal brothels would not have been allowed at all. I mean which is worse a prostitute or a hostess, thou everyone knows that despite the name hostess there is another seedy side to the profession.

 

[scroobal]

You are not far off from the mark. It is indeed connections. The high end niteclub business and the horse racing industry are in the same boat. In both cases the patrons who are business leaders are influential and have placed much pressure on the politcians and enforcement side.

This will carry on until the elections are over. Your best bet is to do what the Japanese chap who ran a group of Japanese niteclubs did. Get the more respectable one from your industry, engage an influential PR (Hill Knowlton ) agency and seek a meeting with Home Affairs. Dont' waste time with the cops. The dutch man and the first owner of Harry's did that - go to the politicians directly and he got what he wanted - alfesco and blaring music. They know the value of the trade and would make more appropriate suggestions.

Leo Yip and Heng are steets ahead of any o fhtem.

 

[GoldenDragon]

Thank you, Frankiestine and Scroobal.

Wrt political consideration, we realised it wasnt the case when the authorities facilitated PRCs to work as legal sex workers in Geylang 2 yrs ago. Niteclub owners had speculated on that "theory" only before geylang doors were opened to PRC meimeis.

Honestly, we didnt expect our government to neglect niteclub owners. Somehow, the OKTs in Geylang hold a more respectable profession than niteclub owners.

Yes, Scroobal, political connections are important. Unfortunately, no one in high office wants to be associated with us! Unless we happen to be Dennis Fool. We are looked upon or rather, looked down as people involved in laundering money, uneducated, categorised as dubious characters etc. In a nutshell, nuteclub owners arent viewed positively.

Take a raid last week at Peace Centre for example. They raided 3 or 4 joints at 6pm during happy hours and returned at 11pm for yet another hit. Some joints were hit twice in one nite. The only joint to escape both raids was Dynasty. Lucky Johnny.

What is inexplicable is that the joints hit has the same ingredients as Dynasty. They have hostesses running around and all without valid work permits. Why the selective enforcement? Only God and the raiding party knows.

Same goes for Lido and the joints along Havelock Rd. All are doing business without valid work permits for their hostesses but seldom get raided. If the police are really that concerned and wants to act as crusaders, they should investigate Lido. Afterall, they are the number 1 in S'pore.

Mamasans at Lido take a cut from the hostesses when they are bonked. I think it's 20%. That is an offence under the Women's Charter. Anti-Vice, where are you? Dont just hit us, the small and medium joints lah. Engage Lido and get our respect.

If the police wants to solve this problem once and for all, it's simple. You dont need a PhD. Just bring in 5 jumbo jets and park along Havelock Road. Raid these joints and send the meimeis back. Or, prohibit the entry of PRC meimeis to S'pore. Only allow in the PRC aunties.

Why bother to raid and raid and hold press conferences highlighting their good work when they could have come out with better options. If 20 officers are involved in the raid and the operation takes 6 hrs, it's 120 man hrs wasted. When the girls are taken back and statements recorded, more man hrs wasted. Arent there more meaningful matters for the police to do?

Btw, I was told Heng Swee Keat and Patrick Tay, both ex-cops, will feature in this GE. Patrick was from STAR, the same unit the current CP was previously exposed to. True or not, Scroobal?

 

[aurvandil]

Most interesting ...

 

[annexa]

GoldenDragon, I up you with my humble points for this very deep insight into nitclub business all of us will almost never know.

 

[wikiphile]

Interesting insights bro Goldendragon, this is not just an insider knowledge of how the nightclub scene is in Singapore but also the deeper workings of power struggles and how the top takes care of its own in Singapore. That said, this sort of situation is not only unique to Singapore, it probably happens everywhere.

 

[silverfox@]

Take a raid last week at Peace Centre for example. They raided 3 or 4 joints at 6pm during happy hours and returned at 11pm for yet another hit. Some joints were hit twice in one nite. The only joint to escape both raids was Dynasty. Lucky Johnny.

What is inexplicable is that the joints hit has the same ingredients as Dynasty. They have hostesses running around and all without valid work permits. Why the selective enforcement? Only God and the raiding party knows.

Just 2 weeks ago I went parklane, I was shocked. The amusement centres at b1 have converted to nightclubs and pubs. And below the basement I saw 2 kinds of crowd, young teens going to the macdonalds and lan cafes. The other kind of crowd are those bengs sengs and of course the girls (you all shld know what kind)

Any complaint, the vans and bus will come. Until its full, they will just find another one nearby and fill it up before going back to base.

Dynasty is more to the quieter side of sophia and selegie side.

 

[huahero]

You should also mention that Singapore Government created jobs for Singaporeans by allowing such "The Viets, PRCs, Thais and Filipinos took centre stage" 外国人才 here to enlarge vice.

 

[exSINgaporean]

GoldenDragon:

I am completely new to this game.

Since young, I always thought niteclubs and bars and similar joints are well-connected and protected. This is a first tiem I hear from a owner like you telling such a tough story.

I really don't know what to say. You guys have the guts to open such businesses and yet need to face with these sort of problem. It's almost like in those Hong Kong movies.

Perhpas you should get a movie director from Hong Kong to do a film on this.....with you rniteclub as the real story. I bet it might be censored in Singapore but what is there for you to lose.

With your network I am sure you can find a small time director who sould take up your offer.

If not do a rel life documentary.

Or you yourself can be the producer, director and actor ....you have the plot, the cast and setting already. Some of the PRC girls of your might be the actresses.

You don't need to be very good or professional....all you need is the passion and the soul you put in. Just the good old fashion film.....no need 3D or that sort.

A story of you starting from school days...how you live and how you got into such business....the black society you encounter....the trouble you face with the gangsters coming to your club, the cash flow problem, the joy you have when you help some of the Malaysian girls earn their keep and they returned to Malaysia to start a family....they call you uncle...you take care of them......the the society turned.....more PRC came.....you took the challenge........employed them....again they thank you....call you uncle

You overcome all sorts of problem but then the final blow.....not even you can take it......

In the film you must show you have the network, you know gangs and you can easily become one of the chief...or you can be in redlight district in Singapore.....but then you love to sing, you know singing let you to "express yourself"......you know that some men their wives do not appreciate them, they do not get respect from their wives and yet the girls in the KTV listen and clap.....show in your film the eyes of the girls...how they look at the men with pure adoration, respect.....NOT everything is sex.

Show in your film, decent converstaions...how men really help some girls to get back to their country to build a family ...to tak care of their parents and siblings......show these stories....some of them do not ask for sex at all.....because what they really wanted was some decent respect and attention from a female.

Also you had a choice to engage in illegal gamblings....but then you choose not to because you know the harm it can do.

The story MUST end with a sad ending.....or an ending with a "question mark".......WHY?

You must lead the audience to be in your shoe. If I am watching your show, I will ask "What would I". Most if not all films have happy endings...but make yours special....differentiate yourself from others.

The end of the film can show our your face, with a few drops of tears, looking towards the sea and then the camera showing the casino in the water front......that speaks volume.

Look at the Straits Times June 3, 1991 Life Page and you will find me...Bernard CHAN. See my creativity and you know what Singapore has lost.

How I wish I can be a little help to you my friend. I salute you, SIR.

Good Luck.

 

[Frankiestine]

Actually this government has a defeatist mentality i.e. if you can't beat them join them. This is evident from the legalization of PRC whores for the legal houses. If you look back to the early 80s, then it wasn't the PRC but the Thais gals. Night after night they conducted raids at places like Clifford Pier trying to eradicate the vices operating there. In the end they knew they can't stem the flow so what was the next best solution. To offer OKT the opportunity to operate fishbowl style brothels.

Now fast forward to present day, they too had a hard time controlling the influx of PRC whores. And the PRC ones were worse, considering the thousands that come in, wave after wave. Hence, again they break away from the traditional source for whores and decided to open up PRC whores to the legal house.

In both instances, they prefer to retain some measures of control over the rampant influx of whores. So who knows maybe one day they will open up permits for PRC and other nationalities permits to work in KTV and Nite Clubs.

 

[scroobal]

Swee Keat no. Leo maybe. They are still trying to get Swee Keat. No clue about Patrick.

Not sure what Dynasty story is, but Lido is off limits. The revenue is mind boggling.

As for Mamasan, the practice is the same all over. 20% is after the initial investment on the girl is exhausted. Typically, the select new ones are done up in terms of clothes and accessories to the tune of $20K by the Mamasan.
I have always stated that all Mamasans are living off the immoral earnings of girls. Home Affairs knows that very well.

Bro, this is just a suggestion. Don't go into dangerous territory with this. Anti-Vice no.1s and 2s have been removed in the past, one going to jail etc. Look as Fragrance and 81. You get the picture.

Just wait for GE to finish. This govt works in mysterious ways. CPIB was not allowed to investigate the shipping industry for decades because the port trade was considered vital. When the ban was lifted, they started to have a ball of a time.

Thank you, Frankiestine and Scroobal.

Wrt political consideration, we realised it wasnt the case when the authorities facilitated PRCs to work as legal sex workers in Geylang 2 yrs ago. Niteclub owners had speculated on that "theory" only before geylang doors were opened to PRC meimeis.

Honestly, we didnt expect our government to neglect niteclub owners. Somehow, the OKTs in Geylang hold a more respectable profession than niteclub owners.

Yes, Scroobal, political connections are important. Unfortunately, no one in high office wants to be associated with us! Unless we happen to be Dennis Fool. We are looked upon or rather, looked down as people involved in laundering money, uneducated, categorised as dubious characters etc. In a nutshell, nuteclub owners arent viewed positively.

Take a raid last week at Peace Centre for example. They raided 3 or 4 joints at 6pm during happy hours and returned at 11pm for yet another hit. Some joints were hit twice in one nite. The only joint to escape both raids was Dynasty. Lucky Johnny.

What is inexplicable is that the joints hit has the same ingredients as Dynasty. They have hostesses running around and all without valid work permits. Why the selective enforcement? Only God and the raiding party knows.

Same goes for Lido and the joints along Havelock Rd. All are doing business without valid work permits for their hostesses but seldom get raided. If the police are really that concerned and wants to act as crusaders, they should investigate Lido. Afterall, they are the number 1 in S'pore.

Mamasans at Lido take a cut from the hostesses when they are bonked. I think it's 20%. That is an offence under the Women's Charter. Anti-Vice, where are you? Dont just hit us, the small and medium joints lah. Engage Lido and get our respect.

If the police wants to solve this problem once and for all, it's simple. You dont need a PhD. Just bring in 5 jumbo jets and park along Havelock Road. Raid these joints and send the meimeis back. Or, prohibit the entry of PRC meimeis to S'pore. Only allow in the PRC aunties.

Why bother to raid and raid and hold press conferences highlighting their good work when they could have come out with better options. If 20 officers are involved in the raid and the operation takes 6 hrs, it's 120 man hrs wasted. When the girls are taken back and statements recorded, more man hrs wasted. Arent there more meaningful matters for the police to do?

Btw, I was told Heng Swee Keat and Patrick Tay, both ex-cops, will feature in this GE. Patrick was from STAR, the same unit the current CP was previously exposed to. True or not, Scroobal?

 

[GoldenDragon]

wikiphile - I fully agree with you that 'this sort of situation is not only unique in S'pore, it happens everywhere'. But arent we a first world country with world class adminstrators?

We are number 1 in many many areas. This sort of situation should not exist in S'pore. How are we to teach the third world countries when such a simple matter is left dragging for the past decade.



exSINgaporean - I didn't face trouble with gangsters coming to my club. Gangsters, drunkards and those high on drugs are easier to deal with! Their friends with them are likely to prevent any escalation by driving sense to their troublemaker friend(s). If out of control, we just dial 999. We also pay taxes, CPF etc just like other businesses.

Cannot say the same for police officers raiding niteclubs. They appear as if
they are on a crusade to rid S'pore of niteclubs. But try asking them to raid Lido Palace and their balls disappear.

Even if they do, they will not hit Lido hard. Just go through the motion, bring 1 or 2 hostesses back, impose 3 or 6 demerit points then return to raid again a year later. By then, the demerit points would have been cancelled. Lido lives on and on and on.

exSINgaporean, thanks for your advice. Your suggestion is great but I doubt if I have the time. I also have no intention to offend our world class government coz I am a nobody.


I am sure the government will respond appropriately, but as always, it is always years later. We dont expect them to preempt this problem. It's not life and death for them. Neither do we expect them to deal with this matter swiftly, after it becomes so obvious. And yet we claim to be world class here and there. Nonsense. Absolute nonsense.

Take the ah long problem as an example. They must have finally admitted defeat by making amendments to the Moneylenders' Act 18 months ago. The traditional ah longs we know of, that operated from the coffeeshops etc have now progressed to air con offices, after getting their license from the Registrar of Moneylenders. And they advertised their services in the newspapers.

The legal ah longs are now permitted by law to impose any amount of interest for amount above 3k. In the past, legal ah longs could only charge 1.5% monthly interest. Now, 20% is legal. Can also impose admin fees, late payment fees etc.

The ah long problem is now swiftly swept under the carpet. The police can now claim that any offences resulting from these loans were breaches committed by licensed moneylenders and not ah longs.

Honestly, what is the difference between the old ah longs and the legal moneylenders today? 20% illegal interest in the past suddenly becomes legal! Legally, there is no offence even if they charge you 100% interest monthly.

Well, they may insist that at least all loans are now recorded! But the problems of debtors remain. By claiming that with more legal ah longs, debtors can compare who offers more competitive interest rates is laughable at best. If you can borrow and pay below 5% interest, you are damn bloody lucky. 15% monthly interest rate is the norm, some 'chop head' others may not.

The government collects taxes, solve the ah long problem by nudging them to become legal etc. Problem solved and yet gets to collect revenue. Great move indeed.

Look at the numerous Off Course Betting Centres in S'pore today. They were introduced to combat illegal bookies. What is the difference? The illegals offer more competitive rates and credit terms. The government? Collect taxes. Gambling problem resolved? I am afraid not. Now we even have 2 world class gambling dens!

So, this niteclub problem can easily be resolved too. Just like the ah long, illegal bookies and PRC streetwalkers Geylang problems, ISSUE THE WORK PERMTS FOR HOSTESSES AND THE PROBLEM WILL DISAPPEAR. Why create the problem in the first place and then go all out to crush the very problem they created. Must be the greatest of all morons on planet earth. World class still?

 

[GoldenDragon]

Wow, the cops must be monitoring this thread. And very efficiently and timely, they raided Dynasty hrs ago. Perhaps the cops felt guilty! Or maybe CPIB initiated the raid. More likely the latter. Most pertinently, how many were arrested? How many demerit points you giving Dynasty. With 4 hostesses arrested, you can close Johnny's joint for 6 months. S'pore Police boleh!

Mr & Mrs Policemen, just do your duties. Dont fear your bosses. Don't fear Lido Palace and Dennis Fool's establishment like you all did all these years. Raid and close them down!

Then target the Havelock establishment. Clean up the very problem you created together with ICA and MOM by not moving and changing with the cuurent trend and landscape. Atone for your past sins.

Raid Lido and charge the who's who present, even those high ranking police officers for abetment in the offences happening there. If bold enough, time your raids when your superiors are entertaining their foreign visitors. The law is to be applied fairly, right? That's what your 2nd minister Mr Shanmugam said, as reported in the newspapers.

Commissioner of Police, ban all your officers from patronising niteclubs. There should be no double standards, with some of your officers being regulars to niteclubs and your enforcement officers raiding these establishment. It is pure mockery! And this has been taking place for the past 3 decades!

 

[exSINgaporean]

GoldenDragon:

I salute you again! You are really an old hand in this field, no wonder those President Scholars cannot perform in the real world.....how to face a group of rowdy gangsters?

If what you said about the loan sharks and your nite club bias treatments are true then Singapore is really going doww the tube.....we are then back to the 1960s where all the gangs surfaced.. But now they are legalized.

Sad. Very sad.

When Lee Kuan Yew dies...very soon within these 2 years, the whole Singapore can be out of control. I doubt the police can do anything much about the illegal gambling, the loan sharks, the illegal whores etc.

Geyland could be a "no-go" zone for the Singapore police unless they move in with a platoon strength of at 30 plus policemen and policewomen. If they go in with just 3 to 5 in strength they can be melted by the gangs!

But then whenever there is a large police presence, riots could be created by those FT gangsters.

I just cannot imagine 20 years from now how Singapore will be.....I expect it to be real BAD. 20 years ago I immigrated. Now I hear and read more complaints and the things in Singapore are so much more expensive even comapre to Canada....the fruits, vergatables, meat, fresh milk etc. I am surprised that the govt. even impose GST on these daily essential stuff.

I don't see 20 years from now it could be much improved when Singapore has a population of 6.5 million. At the rate it grows, the pop. could be nearly to 8 million or even 10 million!

20 years ago, the Singapore pop was about 3 million and now it is 5 million. So 20 years from now, it can easily grow to the target of 6.5 million with at least 1 million living in Pulau Ubin, which will be linked by 2 or 3 bridges.

I will be 75 years old by then and I should be able to see how crowded it would be. Already Singapore is now number 1 most "overpopulated" country in the world with Israel being 2nd, under the new overpopulation index.

Hope to have kopi with you and scarbool when I visit my dad in Singapore soon.

Brother dragon, take care and all the best.

 

[GoldenDragon]

exSINgaporean:

Not to worry for S'pore. We are in good hands. HaHaHa! If you are back for a visit from Canada, you are in a safe country, your old country.

Firstly, we have no gangs in S'pore. The police classified them as only street corner gangs some 15 years ago. I think it was Chua Chin Kiat, when he was Director CID. When he later became Director of Prisons, gang members incarcerated had to take an oath in prison that they were no longer gang members.

Many chose to take that route not because they have repented but to get early release. HaHaHa. When they left prison, they became church members and NGO volunteers? I am afraid not. They went back to their gangs.

The truth is that they aren't street corner gangs. Street corner gangs existed only for a short period, period. What we have are traditional triad and SS members. They are well-entrenched and will be around as long as society exists. And they have links in at least 3 ASEAN countries and at least 4 in the EU. By the way, this is not classified info. The men in the streets are all aware. The police too but they are in a stage of self-denial, as always.

Traditional SS and triads continue to have their territories just like the past. Similar to vice and gambling. When your great granchild becomes a great grandparent, gambling, prostitution and gangs will still be around.

President scholars need not face gangsters. The plainclothes officers have to. No worries again. Gangsters and cops are good buddies. They need each other to co-exist. It's a win-win for all.

No worries over the loan sharks, illegal whores and illegal gambling problem. Just legalised it and quote stats in their favour. Our citizens read the newspapers as if everything written is the gospel truth. Thus far, all the 3 above 'problem' areas all taken care of already. Response wasn't swift but better late than never. Legalised ah longs aka moneylenders, geylang brothels with PRC service staff and MBS and RWS.

Geylang is one of the safest places to visit in S'pore, believe me. We have extra 'policemen' on 24hr duties there. They won't dare to create trouble. On the contrary, they assist the police by ensuring no law and order problems in their turf for fear of police presence and raids.

Try creating problems there and someone will come over, faster than the police cars, and ask you not to create trouble coz they need to earn a living either through sale of cough syrup, contraband cigs or illegal gambling dens etc. And we don't need to pay them salaries and pension.

Moved to Canada 20 years ago? Must have landed either in Vancouver or Toronto then. Many S'poreans headed to these 2 locations 2 decades ago.

Have coffee with scroobal and myself? Sure. You check with scroobal, ok?

 

[aurvandil]

Not sure what Dynasty story is, but Lido is off limits. The revenue is mind boggling.

....

Just wait for GE to finish. This govt works in mysterious ways. CPIB was not allowed to investigate the shipping industry for decades because the port trade was considered vital. When the ban was lifted, they started to have a ball of a time.

As it is with nite clubs and KTVs, so it shall be with socio-political blogs.

 

[melzp]

At the end of the day in Parliament, the Min of Home Affairs
will give statistics that they hit xxx jackpots and xxx women
arrested and evicted compared to last year being xx n xx respectively.

In short, they are ever vigilant and working very hard to deserve a good
rest and raise.

But, in truth, Massage Parlors hv info n backings fm inside jobs whereby
they will be informed of pending raids coz many CID n ex cid are owners
ot co-owners of Mass Parl

 

[GoldenDragon]

Melzp: Statistics relating to police raids and numbers arrested can be used to an organisation's interest and advantage.

For example, if your figures for raids and those arrested are lower than the previous year, just credit it to the previous year's relentless raids and raids and measures to combat that problem. Now, just mopping up.

If your current figures are more, just say the situation is still under control because of enhanced intelligence and raids and that the police are working very hard to ensure public safety and requires the cooperation of the public.

Not so sure if you are right in stating that ex-CID officers are owners of these massage parlours. I think there is only 1. Used to be at Apollo Centre. Not sure if he is still around after the upgrading.

If you refer to policemen patronizing these outlets, you are right. They used to go to the one at Leisure Drome and drink and have fun at the old Dynasty Niteclub.

 

[melzp]

Clue : Massg Parl with a Thai name in Chinatown core.
They were given time of impending raid and it is in register,
so much so for being a clean place,

Look, if u are a senior wouldnt a junior colleague give face to u??