Why not make MRT trains longer ?

[diversifyx2]

Train and MRT are two diff category, find out urself.

 

[ThePlen]

if they double the train's capacity, they would triple the fare.

 

[johnny333]

That's called long term planning.
First you build flat with lifts that does not stop at every floor with the long term view that they could then upgrade in the future to score political points.

I've ridden on various subways & the one in Spore is already one with the most carriages. Then why are Spore trains so crowded?

Have to wonder why other cities with higher populations are able to handle the crowds while Spore seems to have problems handling such crowds

Maybe the problem is with poor infrastructure planning. Could it be that our scholars/ civil servants are doing a poor job in city planning?

In other places they have to plan for efficiency but in Spore Inc its all about profitability, bottom line, ... In Spore public servants are too distracted by making making .

The only way to REALLY improve the poor state of our services is through the ballot box

 

[hairylee]

I've ridden on various subways & the one in Spore is already one with the most carriages. Then why are Spore trains so crowded?

Have to wonder why other cities with higher populations are able to handle the crowds while Spore seems to have problems handling such crowds

Maybe the problem is with poor infrastructure planning. Could it be that our scholars/ civil servants are doing a poor job in city planning?

In other places they have to plan for efficiency but in Spore Inc its all about profitability, bottom line, ... In Spore public servants are too distracted by making making .

The only way to REALLY improve the poor state of our services is through the ballot box

In Singapore it is no longer about "Public Service".
Those scholars/civil servants who did try to serve the public in the true sense of the word have all been "Cleared off the Highway"

 

[Alamaking]

In Singapore it is no longer about "Public Service".
Those scholars/civil servants who did try to serve the public in the true sense of the word have all been "Cleared off the Highway"

No no, now is how to maximise profits!!!! screw the Public Service

 

[Zombie]

right now during peak hours, they are running trains at almost one minute intervals. even then the people rush is heavy.

2 more car units in front means 8 exit doors missing (same as the back)

to achieve 70% capacity increase, means on average, the first door will need to take up to 9x the normal load ie 9x the normal time for people to board/alight (same as the back)

if the normal time is 10-15 sec, that means averaging around 1.5 - 2 minutes of waiting at the station.... probably around 1 min if people are fast...

without the extra car units, the next train should be arriving...

 

[Char_Azn]

What they forgot is that trains have been running here for hundreds of years. Since 1800s Lets look how MRT would be like in a hundred years time.

Usually the cleanlieness and general conditions of trains has not much(if at all) to do with the age of the local train service. U can tell its old because its stations looks like its going to collapse anytime. Try visiting the London Underground or the Paris Metro and you'll know what I mean However old train stations does not always translate to ancient and dirty trains. Although for both the French and Brits are a good example of both. A better example would be the Prague and Budapest tram services. Their tram service were around since the 1800s but the trams they use now are very up-to-date

I've taken the local metro/tram services in many parts of Western and Central Europe, Asia and Australia. Compared most of of these, I'm pretty glad to say that our MRT and the stations are very well maintained.

Our own MRT is more then 20yrs old but many of the trains still look brand new. SG trains are generally very well maintained. U can talk about the strict rules, no eating drinking smoking etc. but hey, it keeps the place clean. In SG, the government and the org under them have an obsession with keeping things new, which is why they constantly buy new stuff or constantly renovate the place. Some of our stations have gone through multiple facelifts and its only 20+ years old yet if you visit many countries with really old stations, they've not changed much for the past 100 years. Its one of the reason why the stations and trains here will generally look better then the ones overseas.

 

[Maverick01]

yea i have checked out the trains in europe..not as bad as sg for sure...peak period will be crowded as with all big cities though.....

You can find a lot of this in Europe and some in Australia. However they are not used in the city areas, they are usually used for transporting from City to the Suburbs.

I've taken a number of them during my travels in Europe and I can tell you 1 thing, when its full(which is just about all the time), most pple will cluster F at the entrance. So you end up having a lot of problems getting on and off trains. To add to that problem, in Europe you have to press a button before the door opens so every time the train stops, there is a freaking mad rush to get out on top of that, because its trains to the suburbs, they only come like once every 30min. If you think SG is bad, you guys should check out Europe

 

[Char_Azn]

yea i have checked out the trains in europe..not as bad as sg for sure...peak period will be crowded as with all big cities though.....

Europe trains not as bad as SG? U must have been to a different city as me. So far I've used the public transport in London, Paris, Berlin, Munich, Vienna, Brussels Amsterdam, Madrid, Barcelona, Rome, Milan, Prague and Budapest. All of which are worse off then us. London Underground lagi best, train move halfway the lights can go off. Paris stations, you can find a number of the stations with no signboards and the wall is total smashed up as if it's about to collapse. If U like to climb stairs, you'll love the stations in Madrid. So which metro have you took exactly that "isn't as bad as SG". Frankly speaking I haven't took any trains in Europe that is half as good as the ones here.

I can understand if you compare the Asian Metro with SG since many of them are brand new or about the same age as ours.

 

[SIFU]

Got a lot of toads in wells in here

http://billstclair.com/rome0010/index.html

These trains are fairly common in Europe!!! Anyone who have been there backpacking will tell U that

well asshole:oIo:

i m not disputing such train exist.. look properly ok.. that pic in question is photoshop stupid.. the other pic from powq is real though..

KNN ah gong..:oIo:

 

[streetsmart73]

Serious, technical question.

Why don't they make the MRT train longer.?
Instead of 6 units, make it 10 to increase the peak passenger capacity by 70% per train.

Of course, one technical issue would be that the platforms have to be made longer to accommodate the longer trains. But if the 2 font and 2 lead carriages are internally resigned for seating, then people from the rear and front can move easily to the main 6 segment of the train for boarding and de boarding.

Then the train can still stop within its present designated position
of six carriages, without the need to do any mod to the existing platforms.

The other major technical issue would be the increased loading current,, for which the present electrical conductors may not be able to handle. A simple solution would be to have an ON DEMAND onboard small generator ( 2 MW ?), to provide the additional booster power during start up from the station or elsewhere.
Alternatively, increase the present 750 Volt supply to 1000 volts, with appropriate step down mod on each carriage motor. Which is not that difficult or expensive.

These trains can be used during peak hours, and for non peak hours, the normal 6 unit trains can be run.

Any techie here to discuss ?

hi there


1. before going further, i believe that there are many other things to consider extending the length of each train.
2. crowd control and emergency are two vital elements.
3. in jpn, it is just 30 seconds between trains during peak hours.

 

[GoFlyKiteNow]

2 more car units in front means 8 exit doors missing (same as the back)

to achieve 70% capacity increase, means on average, the first door will need to take up to 9x the normal load ie 9x the normal time for people to board/alight (same as the back)

if the normal time is 10-15 sec, that means averaging around 1.5 - 2 minutes of waiting at the station.... probably around 1 min if people are fast...

without the extra car units, the next train should be arriving...

A good tech point.
Yes, the doors of the 3 rd carriage ( front n rear ) have to be made wider. Twice the existing dimensions.

I understand that adding more trains to increase the frequency, has lots and lots of technical and logistical difficulties. The wear and tear of the tracks and maintenance are also important factors. Plus energy wastage.

That is why, many train operators, prefer LONGER trains than MORE trains.

Another point worth considering is that of designating the carriages - so that the first 3 carriages are exclusively for the longer distance passengers.

-
Your reply is the first real discussion on this thread. Thanks.
Most of the responses are making this simple subject into a govt bashing politicizing circus. Damn.

 

[eatshitndie]

This picture fake? proportions wrong leh, LOL

Nice photoshop :p:p:p:p

the pic is playing tricks with your eyes. how? because the chap standing at the door is nearer to your eyes while the chap sitting down is further in. this is a well known depth (mis)perception on picture stills or photographs with the phenomenon called "perspective". there's about 3 yards of depth in that train. an untrained eye will think the person in front is always bigger than the person at the rear in a 2-dimensional pic. that's because you're not thinking in perspective. seeing is not complete without the thinking. you need to train your mind to see too, not just the eyes.

 

[jw5]

Because longer is not always better.

 

[Perspective]

Increasing the length of trains increases safety risks. Just increase the frequency of trains will do.

After all the talk of improving transport timing, trains still take 5 mins to arrive at peak hours. Thought many would have failed the new benchmarks already.

 

[eatshitndie]

Train and MRT are two diff category, find out urself.

right. rapid transit trains have different widths on the rails when compared to conventional trains. moreover, most modern transit trains are electric and powered by a 3rd rail, which carries high voltage currents. the 3rd rail is normally the vertical rail on the far side of the trackway. it has a cover to keep water out, or maintenance crew or stupid birds from accidentally touching it. morons who touch it will die of shock. and there are many here who are morons.

 

[singveld]

not design for platform.
the driver must be at the front to see the monitor
yes i notice , that new york and japan have very very long train compare to sinkies one.

they have to increase the frequency

Serious, technical question.

Why don't they make the MRT train longer.?
Instead of 6 units, make it 10 to increase the peak passenger capacity by 70% per train.

Of course, one technical issue would be that the platforms have to be made longer to accommodate the longer trains. But if the 2 font and 2 lead carriages are internally resigned for seating, then people from the rear and front can move easily to the main 6 segment of the train for boarding and de boarding.

Then the train can still stop within its present designated position
of six carriages, without the need to do any mod to the existing platforms.

The other major technical issue would be the increased loading current,, for which the present electrical conductors may not be able to handle. A simple solution would be to have an ON DEMAND onboard small generator ( 2 MW ?), to provide the additional booster power during start up from the station or elsewhere.
Alternatively, increase the present 750 Volt supply to 1000 volts, with appropriate step down mod on each carriage motor. Which is not that difficult or expensive.

These trains can be used during peak hours, and for non peak hours, the normal 6 unit trains can be run.

Any techie here to discuss ?

 

[eatshitndie]

Increasing the length of trains increases safety risks. Just increase the frequency of trains will do.

After all the talk of improving transport timing, trains still take 5 mins to arrive at peak hours. Thought many would have failed the new benchmarks already.

the problem lies with three shortsighted issues:

1. drastic population increases in certain population centers not in line with the growth of train and track capacities. (attribute this to the ft policy and sudden "surge" of morons into sg in a short space of time)
2. design of the lines and concentration of transfer stations
3. reach and remoteness of those huge population centers

#2 & #3 are related.

a. can't mitigate #1 with the same speed of line buildout (unless the morons in charge stop or scale down on the unmitigated ft policy); thus, solve #2 and #3.
b. distribute transfer and intersection points at more stations with more lines intersecting. currently, every friggin rider finds city hall a concentration nightmare for the east-west line. need to offload east-west traffic at other points beside city hall... which leads to...
c. another east-west line covering a parallel route (so the friggin train doesn't get crowded the moment it hits tampines going west)
d. all these big towns in tampines, hougang, jurong, amk contribute to massive traffic from remote locations to city center. need to reroute traffic around the island on the east side just like what the north-south line does for the west side. the new circle line will help with downtown rerouting when it's fully operational.

all this talk about train-car-size and longer trains does not address the long-term capacity and traffic distribution issues.

 

[eatshitndie]

not design for platform.
the driver must be at the front to see the monitor
yes i notice , that new york and japan have very very long train compare to sinkies one.

they have to increase the frequency

i spent a couple of weeks in sg observing the mrt frequencies, did some math, and noticed that the wait intervals are relatively short compared to new york, tokyo, hong kong and london. arrival frequency is dependent on trains clearing and coming into critical junctures or transfer points. the lack of transfer points and routes in sg's system does not offer better solutions by increasing frequencies of each line.

 

[scroobal]

Wow, shocked to find out that there are people so blur. Frog in the well comes to mind. And these trains have been running for donkey years.

Wahhaah was about to find more info and pictures of the trains here to prove its the real thing. Guess you beat me to the punch. Its typical sinkie mentality, just because sinkies have not seen it means its fake. I remember when I first studied in Sydney all the Sinkies complained about how old the trains looked, how big Central station is with 40 platforms. What they forgot is that trains have been running here for hundreds of years. Since 1800s Lets look how MRT would be like in a hundred years time.