YPAPee Justifies OutOfWorld Pay for CHOR BOH LAN Ministers

[makapaaa]

<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR class=msghead><TD><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR class=msghead vAlign=top><TD class=msgF width="1%" noWrap align=right>From: </TD><TD class=msgFname width="68%" noWrap>mrbell1009 <NOBR></NOBR> </TD><TD class=msgDate width="30%" noWrap align=right>Dec-14 12:07 pm </TD></TR><TR class=msghead><TD class=msgT height=20 width="1%" noWrap align=right>To: </TD><TD class=msgTname width="68%" noWrap>ALL <NOBR></NOBR></TD><TD class=msgNum noWrap align=right> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD class=msgleft rowSpan=4 width="1%"> </TD><TD class=wintiny noWrap align=right>25813.1 </TD></TR><TR><TD height=8></TD></TR><TR><TD class=msgtxt>http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=77865194499&v=wall#/group.php?gid=77865194499

Bernard Leong
US President Kennedy said in his first presidental speech, "Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country." Indeed, civil action is alive and strong in America, independent , pro govt or anti govt. In Singapore, I am a bit disappointed to find that most civil action groups are pro govt or anti govt. Very few neutral... See More groups. I attended syniconnect conference last year but it seems to have gone inactive. A promising neutral group, I thought. Trying to find out more what happen along the way.

Mrbell Mrbell Bell Bell The PAP ministers should sacrifice their miilion dollar salaries and serve the country

Genesis Shen Well PAP Ministers, in taking up their positions as Ministers, have already suffered roughly a 40% pay cut of their original salaries. Let's not forget that these are successful men in the private sector who used to draw far more in their previous jobs.

The highest paid government officials are the President and the Prime Minister, each drawing ... See Moreroughly a nett salary of $3million. While that might seem alot to many people, this is a far cry from the $20+ million that other top performers of similar calibre are drawing from the private sector.

Genesis Shen Yes there are some concerns that we shouldn't be run as Singapore Inc. and that our politicians and civil servants should serve their country as patriots. I do believe this is a noble ideal that we should aspire towards.

But think about it for the moment. In other countries, the civil service is a dumping ground; an indication that a person has ... See Morefailed to succeed in the private sector. Singapore is a rare exception in that people see a future and a career in the civil service.

Perhaps civil servants might not like the cut-throat competitive environment, but as a citizen and as a voter, I would want an efficient civil service that can DELIVER.

Timothy Tay Hi Genesis, while you have a point, I must point out that many civil servants weren't even approached by the likes of Google, Apple, Genentech, GE and other big companies, before they became civil servants.

Most likely than not, these people accepted government scholarships that set them to become civil servants from the start.

This is vastly different from say from some US civil servants who had came from the private sector, from example, Google or Microsoft or Ebay, who signed on to become public servants. For example, there are a few ex-Google employees who now work for the Obama administration.... See More

How many ex-Google employees are now government civil servants in contrast back in Singapore? And how many were actually poached from the private sector, especially from the up and coming ones that needs creativity from each individual instead of the old industries of oil and manufacturing?

Opinions remain as opinions until you have the research to justify it as facts.

Genesis Shen Hi Timothy, yes sometimes I really wish we could really attract more star performers in the private sector to join the civil service! But it remains a sad economic reality that the civil service tags itself to roughly 60% of the private sector's equivalent. (low-tier to low-tier, mid to mid, high to high)

And that many Singaporeans in general are unwilling to suffer a 40% pay cut, patriotism or not. So can you imagine what might happen if we demanded that they took a 90% pay cut in order to join the civil service?

I'm terribly sorry if I am unable to provide any research material. Hahah this isn't exactly my field of expertise (ask me on l4d2! hahahah kidding) ... See More

From my personal experiences, many of my schoolmates back in JC accepted government scholarships to serve in various Ministries. Some of these top scorers today might be top civil servants tomorrow, while some of their other contemporaries will become top brass in various corporations.

So yes, while I agree that many of our top civil servants or politicians don't really have a "previous" salary as a reference point, I suppose a 2nd best reference point would be their contemporaries of similar standing.








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[makapaaa]

Timothy Tay I don't think you are getting what I'm trying to say.

What I meant was that if the govt really wants to pay top dollar for good talent, then say it as it is, for what it is, instead of claiming that these people are so darn good that they will definitely get poached by top corporations around the world(when these fellas wasn't even asked by top corporations before they were approached by the govt to sign up!).

And don't forget: when you have to pay millions for ministers, and hundreds of thousands of dollars for top civil servants, the tax burden, whether through direct or indirect taxes, and extra costs, will be high, especially on the middle and working classes. Without a progressive tax system for both individuals , corporations and organisations, its hard for the government to keep on functioning, paying for both administrative costs AND other costs, like a healthcare system, and for the people who will have much less take-home pay to settle daily expenses, pay mortgages and to save for rainy days. ... See More

A government can only tax so much, before people fall into perpetual debt. My point and my goal is that if we want to have a good government, and a vibrant economy then we need to jumpstart the people who form the basis of the economy, by giving them more opportunities to do the best they can from ground up, and not by giving ministers millions of dollars and blindly hoping it would trickle down.

Bernard Leong I can tell that this is already a festering sore point for the man in the street. Govt is perceived by some people as a elitist group in a ivory tower, a la superman who can solve anything. Being the highest paid govt in the world, singaporeans have high expectations of the govt as one who can solve all troubles. Indeed, this reinforces the crutch ... See Morementality of singaporeans dependent on govt to deliver . From the economy to social issues, the govt is expected to solve it all. When mistakes happened like the msk escape, people called for minister wong's apology and even resignation. When the economy tanked due to external world conditions, people asked why the govt cannot save the economy. "we pay you PAP govt so much money, and you find excuses and push the blame on outside environment . How convenient indeed ! Then why pay you so much for what ?" Indeed, the PAP govt is competent for now. However, it is still not superman. It has limitations cos singapore has limitations. I also have my reservations about ministers' high pay. 3 million is a bit too much, I prefer 2 million. But hey other countries' leaders have non monetary perks such as official residence, private jet, holiday retreat. Reference to US which I know. And they have lucrative private sector engagements after they leave office. The lines between private and public sector are not so clearly distinguished and clear cut like in singapore. That's probably why not many private sector pple cross over to public sector and vice versa in singapore. In singapore the public sector is stronger than private sector. While in America, it is the opposite. Those google people in Obama administration had made their pile and probably thought it is time to serve America. Quite a number of US top officials cut their teeth in the private sector before crossing over to public sector . Well, it has its good points and bad points. Some may say that these private sector crossovers have conflict of interest like ex US VP Cheney. Others may say that these people bring a fresh air of perspective into the usually stiff civil service. As for singapore civil service, some of my friends are high flyers with scholarships . Some are not. it all boils down to the individual ultimately.

Bernard Leong however, scholarships does retain some of the talent pool for the govt. One scholar have no plans to stay on further and the other do see a future. A non scholar friend felt slighted by those scholars who had a superiority complex. It is a natural divide between the haves and the have nots in the civil service here. Anyway, I did thought of joining... See More the govt service but looking at my friends and myself, I think otherwise. now coming back to singapore ministers, they emphasised more on monetary renumeration and only a few perks like official travel transport, bodyguard protection and that's about it, if my memory is still correct. So it make up for the non monetary perks compared to other countries like USA . Timothy have a good point that very few politicians and top civil servants here have lucrative positions outside of GLCs. By the way, golden parachutes are going to be proposed by DPJ to be phased out for Japan's perm secs. wonder if the PAP govt will do that too ?.? Or if the opposition come up and snipped top bureaucrats' golden parachutes into GLCs ? What do you all think ? Can these ministers really do it for love of country, not money ? Can these top civil servants survive without golden parachutes into GLCs ? Come on men, let us bring it on .