WP's Managing Agent's issue

[WongMengMeng]

I do agree with Prof Tey supporter that MPs main focus should be in the legislative chambers. They should not be burdened with property management and provision of municipal services. That should for reasons associated with economies of scale be best handled by the HDB or an entity contracted and governed by HBD or MND.

The MP should be screaming how dirty her constituency is in Parliament not how she handles the cleaning process.

This is PAP's way of crippling the institution of democracy.

First, I support RULE OF LAW and not Tey. There are many others who see things the same way, just view this other thread, which is also good for exercising one's IB spotting skills.

http://sammyboy.com/showthread.php?149890-Looking-beyond-the-persecution-of-Tey-Tsun-Hang

Second, the first post in this thread mentioned nothing about municipal services being the responsibility of IMPARTIAL civil servants.

Third, your first post instead focused on perceived conflicts of interest. Trying to turn the gun on the WP instead. Nice Jedi mind trick, but it ain't gonna work. You only agreed to the self-evident when your mind trick did not work.

Fourth, you tried to trick the WP into letting their ward become dirty and then complain in Parliament. As if a PAP dominated Parliament used to playing dirty tricks aided by a biased Speaker will help! Ha what a joke! The Speaker wouldn't even allow a debate on the AIM scandal. She can do the same to any WP complaints about filthiness in their wards.

Fifth, Sinkies voted for this. Serve them right! Vote wisely the next time. 2021 will be too late.

Cheers ...

 

[zhihau]

I say lifts are supposed to stop on every floor in the first place and if they didn’t you should have voted the PAP out for not designing your HDB flats properly.

bro,
been voting for the opposition since me turned 21, done my part at Aljunied GRC, waiting for others to follow suit

 

[winnipegjets]

Locke,

You will have o face this flatly, WP is walking down the slippery slope of cronyism.

On Monday 13th of May 2013, the Workers’ Party parliamentarians walked out with their noses bloodied, figuratively speaking, by the Minster for National Development Khaw Boon Wan.

On the contrary, I saw COW demonstrating his ignorance. To have him tell Parliament that the town management system was nothing more than an accounting package that could be replaced quickly and easily shows up COW to be a total idiot. Yes, he is idiot because he didn't know the basics of system software and its implementation.
If one had just read the content of the PAP-press, one's conclusion would be slanted towards the PAP. Watch the video of the debate and we see how inept the PAP minister is.

Khaw pointed out that WP has been parceling off contracts to supporters of their own political party for a whopping figure of $25.9 million. Upon closer inspection, there appears to be lapses in governance in the way contracts were awarded.

The other side of the story which the PAP will never acknowledge and that it is difficult to prove is that companies won't dare to service the WP wards for fear of losing business from the PAP wards. That leaves the WP with little option but to get supporters to start up business to service opposition wards.
The WP should highlight that up to the max to counter the insinuation put up by COW.

But it was not a case of the pot calling the kettle black. Even if Khaw made any aspersions of poor governance, he was politically savvy enough to show WP a way out of their death trap. They reached a common ground; and it turns out, that it is perfectly okay for parliamentarians to do whatever they want with town councils. Khaw said, “As MPs, we are given a lot of latitude to run TCs.”

And WP should attack COW and the PAP on this.

WP has found itself in choppy political waters in the last two days. It has lost the moral high ground to argue that TCs are a public institution after farming out its own IT contract to a party insider.

No, it doesn't. WP needs to highlight that they didn't have a choice given the subtle pressure that the PAP has placed on business to not service WP wards.

However, according to some die hard WP supporters, it is a different kettle of fish when WP parcels out contracts to its supporters. Apparently, it is not favoritism; it is because of their distrust for anything not affiliated with WP.

There is BIG difference ...the WP does NOT have a choice and worked against tight deadlines imposed by the ministry while the PAP

Khaw responding to Pritam said, “We must impose it across all TCs, and also not just narrowly for party-owned companies but companies owned by people in various forms of party affiliations, like ex-party members and party supporters and even their immediate families. If we do this, we would of course be prohibiting the appointment of FMSS by the AHTC as well.”

And WP should show the PAP up as bullies. The PAP created the TCs in an attempt to show up the opposition as inept. Well, the opposition have shown themselves to be very capable managers.
The PAP stands to lose more if it tries to impose this limit ...there are lots of PAP pigs who would see their livelihoods affected. While the WP creates companies out of necessity to overcome obstacles created by the PAP, the PAP encourages UMNO-style cronynism.

 

[winnipegjets]

The thing that really gets me is that the playing field is so unfair. And the moment WP tries to argue against PAP practices on the basis of what should constitute good governance, the PAP bites back that WP seems equally guilty of the same.

WP can bite back hard - WP should play up the fact that companies that hope to garner business from PAP wards don't want to service WP wards. And for that reason, WP didn't have a choice but to find supporters to provide the service.

 

[liongsum]

WP can bite back hard - WP should play up the fact that companies that hope to garner business from PAP wards don't want to service WP wards. And for that reason, WP didn't have a choice but to find supporters to provide the service.

Good point last 2 posts.
I thought nobody will say that.
For whatever it's worth, the video notwithstanding, I am one who prefers to be able to do something about dirty environments rather than scream in parliament. Heh heh, that video is not a commandment.

 

[HTOLAS]

Mr GMS

Didn't you say somewhere that it was not the job of MPs to run town councils? Have you changed your mind?

Dear Locke,

I think you have exaggerated the situation.

WP doesn't start from scratch. It has a backbone management staff in HGTC and I do not think it is that difficult to take over from there.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Narong Wongwan]

To cut a long story short, the job of an MP is to make laws and hold the Government to account and not to manage Town Councils. Municipal services are the job of the GOVERNMENT, to be executed through CIVIL SERVANTS who are supposed to be IMPARTIAL and not differentiate between Oppo and PAP wards. It is as simple as that.

See post #9 for more and a thought provoking video.

Well said! Short and sweet.....
PAP introduced and changed so many things just to hamper opposition.....

 

[winnipegjets]

Well said! Short and sweet.....
PAP introduced and changed so many things just to hamper opposition.....

And now they realized that having TC helmed by MPs does not keep the opposition from winning elections. In fact, the system now allows opposition MPs to put to bed the lies that PAP have been saying about them - that opposition politicians are inept and can't govern the country.
So, what do they do now? Change the TC rules to hamstring the opposition. But they still don't know how to do that without hurting their own MPs.
It will be ridiculous to have the government micromanage how TCs are to be run.

 

[ray_of_hope]

In larger countries there are states and provinces whose governing parties are different, and therefore at odds to, the central government. In the island-state of Singapore you have town councils. Completely reasonable.

 

[HTOLAS]

More than that, managing TCs, while distracting the opposition MPs from tackling 'bigger' issues, gets the MPs closer to the residents. I've seen with my own eyes how a WP MP got greeted (and interrupted) several times while having lunch at a coffee shop.

That must be the law of unintended consequences at work.

And now they realized that having TC helmed by MPs does not keep the opposition from winning elections. In fact, the system now allows opposition MPs to put to bed the lies that PAP have been saying about them - that opposition politicians are inept and can't govern the country.
So, what do they do now? Change the TC rules to hamstring the opposition. But they still don't know how to do that without hurting their own MPs.
It will be ridiculous to have the government micromanage how TCs are to be run.

 

[Narong Wongwan]

In larger countries there are states and provinces whose governing parties are different, and therefore at odds to, the central government. In the island-state of Singapore you have town councils. Completely reasonable.

yes that's why you get 81 MPs and as if that is not enough.....5 mayors thrown in for good measure........all for such a tiny place.......each leeching off millions in salaries alone.

 

[kingrant]

I agree with WMM that MPs should stick to their roles as MPs and not mess around with TCs which was a PAP construct to unlevel the playing field for the Opp. Therefore, WP should seize the high moral ground immediately and call Khaw's bluff.
After all, who stands to lose more? Who or which party will have more constituencies which have to give up contracts to their cronies? WP has only HG and Aljunied GRC, whilst PAP has much much more to lose.

I would say go for broke, and call Khaw's bluff to pass the rule. In a battle of brinksmanship, the PAP stands to lose because the stakes are higher.

By doing so, WP will have the moral authority to reinforce the argument to the people of Singapore that partisan politicking in TCs and HDB estates should be a thing of the past, and pass the buck of managing the estates back to the HDB and the govt. This will blunt their weapon in blocking future Opposition's development and advantage. At the same time, it will clean up the system. WP must not let PAP get away with this one.

 

[IamTiong]

WP can bite back hard - WP should play up the fact that companies that hope to garner business from PAP wards don't want to service WP wards. And for that reason, WP didn't have a choice but to find supporters to provide the service.

I think they wont dare say this unless they got proof... otherwise you know what will happen.

 

[bhoven]

I agree with WMM that MPs should stick to their roles as MPs and not mess around with TCs which was a PAP construct to unlevel the playing field for the Opp. Therefore, WP should seize the high moral ground immediately and call Khaw's bluff.
After all, who stands to lose more? Who or which party will have more constituencies which have to give up contracts to their cronies? WP has only HG and Aljunied GRC, whilst PAP has much much more to lose.

I would say go for broke, and call Khaw's bluff to pass the rule. In a battle of brinksmanship, the PAP stands to lose because the stakes are higher.

By doing so, WP will have the moral authority to reinforce the argument to the people of Singapore that partisan politicking in TCs and HDB estates should be a thing of the past, and pass the buck of managing the estates back to the HDB and the govt. This will blunt their weapon in blocking future Opposition's development and advantage. At the same time, it will clean up the system. WP must not let PAP get away with this one.

Good point! Agree.

 

[IamTiong]

Love me tender, WP
http://akikonomu.blogspot.sg/2011/08/bringing-gavel-down-on-workers-party-i.html

In fact, Sylvia's logic is even more warped if you take into account the fact that AHTC did have the time anyway to call for a tender for four other contracts on 17 June, barely weeks after winning the ward. And again, it made this decision over the option of holding on to its existing contractors temporarily for a year. Yes, AHTC had so little time that it found the time to call for a tender for everything but a managing agent in this Classifieds ad.

It has so little time that the tender period from announcement to closing date is just 2 weeks - a quickie compared to PAP-held town council project tenders, which are normally 3 weeks to 1 month.

To town council service providers and managers, this should set off alarm bells. Players in the town council services industry need at least 3 weeks to compete competently for a tender because of the time frames involved to get the necessary documentation, certificates, and licenses from the Building and Construction Authority.

In a more bizarre note, the AHTC tender insists on a "pay first" scheme. Ordinarily (i.e. how PAP town councils do things), interested contractors attend the tender briefing to get an idea of the scope of work, the coverage and condition of the town council's area. Then if they feel they are up for it and are still interested, they'll pay the money for the tender documents.

In contrast, AHTC demands that interested contractors pay first to attend the tender briefing. Under what circumstances would any contractor take part in this ridiculous process? Your guess is as good as mine, dear readers.

If we assume procurement corruption, AHTC's shortened and backwards tender process will certainly benefit players who are certain they'll get the awards, i.e. players who have links to the town council. It would be interesting to note which companies won the tenders and who heads them. It would fit in with the same shortened and illogical awarding of the management agent contract to FMSS too.

 

[tanwahp]

Love me tender, WP
http://akikonomu.blogspot.sg/2011/08/bringing-gavel-down-on-workers-party-i.html

This guy is an embarrassment. It was known that the managing agent terminated the contract with Aljunied after the GE. No one said all the contractors terminated their contracts after the GE. The GE was May, the MA termination was May, these tenders were for October, 5 months after the GE.

He also thinks that paying for tender documents are out of the norm when it comes to WP, although it is a norm for the PAP and the world. No wonder there was no breath from him when Sitoh won Potong Pasir and also did not tender for MA to take over PPTC.

 

[winnipegjets]

Wah, PAP IB Smear Team is working overtime, assisted by the PAP Press research team!

 

[tanwahp]

They are first and foremost politicians not in the business of property management. You seriously think that the PAP is an expert at property management. The PSP relies on a whole swathe of govt linked and private property managers. WP does not have that breath and cannot be expected to have that level of leverage.

It is not like putting together a toy with lego bricks.

If we really want to avoid what people call "cronyism", get estate management out of political parties' hands. Estate management itself is a business and a bunch of companies working together.

It becomes worse when town councils are political (according to KBW) where it changes hands between partisan players, and what happens? Companies will also divide themselves into camps. If you use the companies in your camp and this become "cronyism", any party so long that it has a seat in parliament and hence a TC to manage can easily have that label stuck to them.

The whole issue of AIMS and FMSS began with the system, but the system began with the PAP and not the WP. That we should remember. We can stop all these if PAP brings estate management back to HDB. WP has no power to do that.

 

[winnipegjets]

If we really want to avoid what people call "cronyism", get estate management out of political parties' hands. Estate management itself is a business and a bunch of companies working together.

It becomes worse when town councils are political (according to KBW) where it changes hands between partisan players, and what happens? Companies will also divide themselves into camps. If you use the companies in your camp and this become "cronyism", any party so long that it has a seat in parliament and hence a TC to manage can easily have that label stuck to them.

The whole issue of AIMS and FMSS began with the system, but the system began with the PAP and not the WP. That we should remember. We can stop all these if PAP brings estate management back to HDB. WP has no power to do that.

The PAP are clueless on solving problems created by them ...so they will just muddle on hoping for divine intervention to save them from decimation.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

I still maintain the same stance.... MPs are law makers, not estate managers. They should be concentrating more on policies and law making, not some nitty gritty estate management issues like bird droppings, dogs and cats. It makes a big mockery out of our political system.They should elect town councilors on separate elections and this is what other places normally do.

But having said that, if you want to play in this field, you will have to abide to the rules right now. You accepted the MP post and thus, under the rule, you are tasked to take care of the TC. Unless WP is bold enough to table the motion in parliament to change the rules or constitution which they did not. Only bickering on the borderline. If Pritam is to suggest to change the rules to release the MPs of running TC and set up a two tier system whereby town councilors are elected separately, I would have applaused his clarity of democratic principles but he didn't.

So since WP accepted such status quo arrangement, they will have to stick to it and perform. Apparently, the last MND statement has put another hard blow at WP... basically, WP cannot count or what? I shall put it here:

SINGAPORE: The National Development Ministry (MND) has responded to Wednesday's statement from Ms Sylvia Lim, Chairman of the Aljunied-Hougang-Punggol East Town Council (AHPETC).

Ms Lim, who is also chairman of the Workers' Party, had said AHPETC was puzzled by the MND's assertion that its Managing Agent rate per unit was 20 per cent higher than that under the former agent for the PAP-run Aljunied Town Council.

MND said that under its method of computation, which is consistently applied to all town councils, the AHTC Managing Agent contract is S$16,752,314 for the three-year contract, or $465,342 per month. This works out to $8.04 per unit, when the amount is divided by the number of residential and commercial property units (57,899) managed by AHPETC.

It is higher than the rate for Aljunied Town Council (S$6.51) in the past, and even higher when compared to the FY2012 MA rate for Tampines Town Council (S$4.99), which is of a similar size.

MND said the rates were computed based on the same method, and on data declared by the town councils to HDB.

MND also notes that in its statement on Tuesday night, AHPETC stated that their FY 2012 MA per unit rate is S$7.01. However, this has been amended to S$7.58 in its statement on Wednesday.

At S$7.58 per unit per month, MND said the Managing Agent contract value for three years would only be S$15,799,479. This is nearly S$1 million less than the S$16,752,314 declared by the HDB.

MND ended the statement by asking where the missing S$1 million is.

- CNA/ac

This reminds me about the Ministerial Salary debate... where WP has no idea how calculations are made and what parameters are embedded in its calculations. It seems that Mathematics is really not WP's strength at all....


Goh Meng Seng

Mr GMS

Didn't you say somewhere that it was not the job of MPs to run town councils? Have you changed your mind?