WP's Fox or the Vixen?

[Fook Seng]

Old man and PAP wpuld have preferred to have JBJ helming the WP rather than LTK.

Agree with you. With JBJ, they can read him like an open book, also with CSJ, I think. But with LTK, they have to put on a different thinking cap and still will get it wrong. Especially when he says he is comfortable working with you but you are not as comfortable working with him.

 

[Fook Seng]

A degree in political science doesn't make one a politician. Politics has to come from the heart and the belly. Some people have the knack. Most don't.

LKY made no apologies for recruiting technocrats via the backdoor for political office. He admitted that they would be no match in a battle with someone possessing political acumen in their genetic make up. However, he warned sinkies that there was a huge difference between being able to deliver great soundbites and actually crafting policies that helped the country.

To some extent I agree with you. There are two types of scholars - the ordinary scholars and the President scholars. The ordinary scholars are picked to fit first the role of technocrats in the civil service than any other thing. Obviously for this group of scholars, science and maths, engineering and economics were the preferred courses to have. But for the President scholars and to some extent also SAFOS scholars, who really do not need any "hard" discipline to help them in their career, they are free to choose Politics, Public Administration, Philosophy and Psychology for their studies.

If you were to study the backgrounds of President scholars closely, they are, by no means, the top academic students of their cohorts. In fact, in certain years, the entire batch of such scholars do not have perfect score for their "A" level, bearing in mind that perfect score students number several hundreds to a thousand in a given year. Evidently these scholars are picked for a different purpose and with a different set of criteria.

 

[Fook Seng]

The 2 of them are practically opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of education, profession, language, upbringing and possibly even mindset.
The fact that they have fought together side-by-side for years and been fairly successful, or at least more successful than any of their predecessors, speaks volumes for them.

Maybe that is what differentiates WP from the other opposition parties - the complementary nature of their key members. The Ah Lians and Ah Bengs, like LLL and PEH, to connect with the ground, the great orators like Pritam Singh and Lim Yee Peng to rouse the crowd, a strategist like LTK, the professional man like CSM, the spokesperson like Sylvia Lim and researchers like GG and YY. And that is what makes them more successful than the others who have members all cut from the same cloth.

 

[kingrant]

Latest is to read that the PM has heeded the lesson from the Ponggol East slap and will field candidates with different qualifications and backgrounds from high to low echelons of society. This is imperative if he wants to win again. Dont just keep taking in scholars, supergrade civil servants, upper middle class who have never truly "worked" in their lives or dirty their hands or grew calluses on their palms. Dr Tony Tan is such a person - silver spoon, perfectly smooth tender palms and hands, dont even know which end of a broomstick..

 

[HTOLAS]

I'm sure LHL is not so stupid that he only recognizes this now, after the successive 'slaps' from WP. The real issue is whether the PAPzis are able to attract this range of talent. What political compromises are they willing to make to accommodate these daring ground gamers who are willing to bring back bad news?

Or are they always going to use money as a lure? We know what that has reeled in. So, they have a lot of soul searching to do.

As someone else said here, today's opposition parties better prepare to take over sooner rather than later, because the timetable may not be dictated by these parties, and certainly not the PAPzis.

Latest is to read that the PM has heeded the lesson from the Ponggol East slap and will field candidates with different qualifications and backgrounds from high to low echelons of society. This is imperative if he wants to win again. Dont just keep taking in scholars, supergrade civil servants, upper middle class who have never truly "worked" in their lives or dirty their hands or grew calluses on their palms. Dr Tony Tan is such a person - silver spoon, perfectly smooth tender palms and hands, dont even know which end of a broomstick..

 

[Satyr]

The lost of GY is a by-product of their GRC implementation.

If Aljunied has not been a GRC but 5 different SMC, instead of getting all 5 seats, WP might just be able to get 3-4 depending on the match up. GY will still be around I am sure as WP won't be so stupid to send in a key person to challenge him.

GY today is more like the real GY. He now has time to reflect on the transience of worldly power. Those who know him well will tell you he is way off the scale. Besides LKY and maybe Tharman only GY can be held in high regard internationally. I think Singapore will again look to him one day. He will be a much better statesman by then.

 

[Compaq]

The PAP (meaning LKY) has never been interested in recruiting politicians. It's the technocrats they have always been after.

However, with the gloss coming off the image of the PAP and with the inability of the party to guarantee a cushy ride into Parliament anymore, recruitment will probably be their biggest stumbling block in the years to come.

The only option left is the SAF.

Wow. You are scary today. You have got a decent post.

 

[Satyr]

The 2 of them are practically opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of education, profession, language, upbringing and possibly even mindset.
The fact that they have fought together side-by-side for years and been fairly successful, or at least more successful than any of their predecessors, speaks volumes for them.

Given the choice of sitting next to either of them on a long haul flight, I would choose Sylvia any day, no offence to LTK.
But as for LTK being overly respectful to the pap, or even being a mole, that's utter nonsense. Just ask Georgie and Pinky whether they expected or wanted to lose Aljunied. LTK is a great ground politician and very good at making the voters feel good, but unfortunately, he also lacks great intellect and a professional field, which would hold him in better stead when debating and discussing issues. In my opinion, he has over-achieved, not under-achieved.

LTK may not be an intellectual but he is a better leader than the entire cabinet combined. We do not know how strategy is crafted in the WP but LTK must be setting the direction. Reagan was no intellectual either but he could inspire people ( I think he is overrated though and he just happened to be in the right place at the right time).
LTK is neither over achieving nor under achieving. He is setting his own pace as he deems appropriate. I am tempted to mention LHL as an over achiever but I haven't walked in his shoes. He may not be getting the support he needs to do the job. I think this is the nub of the problem. LKY and the first generation leaders truly understood what they needed to do, maybe instinctively. LTK and SL too. The current cabinet may not have an identical vision.

 

[metalmickey]

If you were to study the backgrounds of President scholars closely, they are, by no means, the top academic students of their cohorts. In fact, in certain years, the entire batch of such scholars do not have perfect score for their "A" level, bearing in mind that perfect score students number several hundreds to a thousand in a given year. Evidently these scholars are picked for a different purpose and with a different set of criteria.

I only know the president's scholars from my cohort and the one before mine so it's a small sample size. 1 of them was "what the fuck did they give him a president's scholarship for". 2 of them were good students, but not obviously the best. I suppose they also excelled in the ECAs as well. One of them left to become a doctor and as a result her father who was in the civil service got ostracised. Two of them became professors, one of them one of the best universities in the world. That should be something that Singapore is proud of but they'll never recognise a bond breaker. That's the problem with giving these awards out to the most academically talented people, because they're going to end up where they truly belong - not the civil service.

But the main issue in the civil service is not who gets the scholarship and awards. The main issue is - once you're in the admin service, which of these people rise up to the top? The smart ones, the caring ones, or the ones who are obedient sheep?

The scholarship system made sense in the old days when Singaporeans generally did not have the ability to get a great education. I think these days scholarships should still be given out to outstanding students but they should realise that good people come from everywhere not just those who excelled in their "A" levels.

 

[metalmickey]

LTK is neither over achieving nor under achieving. He is setting his own pace as he deems appropriate. I am tempted to mention LHL as an over achiever but I haven't walked in his shoes. He may not be getting the support he needs to do the job. I think this is the nub of the problem. LKY and the first generation leaders truly understood what they needed to do, maybe instinctively. LTK and SL too. The current cabinet may not have an identical vision.

LKY was a prime minister because he had leadership in his bones. If you're a son of LKY, and LKY tells you to be prime minister, and you just go along, unless you are exactly a clone of LKY, you're going to be doing it because you are a sheep and not because you are a king. If you have any balls you'd just be like Lee Wei Ling, say "fuck you" and go off and be a scientist instead. When you look at the children of leaders who became leaders themselves, many of them struggled to fill the shoes of their parents. Kim Jong Il, Megawati, Gloria Arroyo, Bush 2. It is a very big disadvantage when everybody has seen you when you were a kid, mentally they will all treat you like a kid. Even people like JFK who became president because his father wanted him to be president - struggled. Indira Gandhi managed to hold her own because she was a very strong character.

Dubai looked to Singapore and modelled itself after Singapore. But after that Singapore instead wants to be like Dubai - a playground for the rich, plenty of foreign labourers, shiny new buildings and fancy toys like Gardens by the Bay. Tax havens. Glittering financial centres. Locals crowded out. All this is Lee Hsien Loong wanting to keep up with the Joneses and not having a mind of his own or the welfare of Singaporeans at heart.

 

[andyfisher]

LTK gives me the impression that he is trying to channel lky

the stern persona and look, but it looks like SL is driving most of the issues that the MIB want to dip into.

But having said that, I hope MIB is not like the pappies and there is transparency and diversity of views, I was hoping to see CSM and PS more involved, but these two jokers always take cover.

SDP and the rest can go pcc each other, their style is adversarial which I doubt works in a cuntry like ours where we dont have that sort of culture.

It might work in places like taiwan, india where idiots fight in parl. but i dont want that in spore, its bad for business.
they can go clusterfuck each other.

I want politicians who are concerned for the people and do well for them, not some idiot pushing his own ephemeral agenda.

 

[SadPlumpGal]

How is that so? There must be mangoes involved somewhere.

 

[steffychun]

Low must not keep the strategy of secrecy up.

 

[zhihau]

And that is what makes them more successful than the others who have members all cut from the same cloth.

diversity, that's what kept the world going :o:o:o

political incest on the other hand... :p:p:p

 

[TracyTan866]

diversity, that's what kept the world going :o:o:o

political incest on the other hand... :p:p:p

political incest and inbreeding causes retarded politicians

 

[bhoven]

LKY was a prime minister because he had leadership in his bones. If you're a son of LKY, and LKY tells you to be prime minister, and you just go along, unless you are exactly a clone of LKY, you're going to be doing it because you are a sheep and not because you are a king. If you have any balls you'd just be like Lee Wei Ling, say "fuck you" and go off and be a scientist instead. When you look at the children of leaders who became leaders themselves, many of them struggled to fill the shoes of their parents. Kim Jong Il, Megawati, Gloria Arroyo, Bush 2. It is a very big disadvantage when everybody has seen you when you were a kid, mentally they will all treat you like a kid. Even people like JFK who became president because his father wanted him to be president - struggled. Indira Gandhi managed to hold her own because she was a very strong character.

Dubai looked to Singapore and modelled itself after Singapore. But after that Singapore instead wants to be like Dubai - a playground for the rich, plenty of foreign labourers, shiny new buildings and fancy toys like Gardens by the Bay. Tax havens. Glittering financial centres. Locals crowded out. All this is Lee Hsien Loong wanting to keep up with the Joneses and not having a mind of his own or the welfare of Singaporeans at heart.

Interesting your observations on Dubai aping Singapore and later vice versa....

I think the problem is that w/o exception, a lot of leaders ( esp in Asia ) believe in dynasties and want to perpetuate their rule. Think Japan, South Korea, Philippines, Malaysia, Thailand, India, even PRC at the clique level. This inevitably results in elitism and privileged classes. In many ways, one must sympathise with LHL. I think he knows he can never be like his dad. Problem is he cannot be unfilial and say no to his parents...even when it came to choice of spouses. Hopefully, when LKY is no longer around he can be his own man and opt out then...

 

[liongsum]

I can't recall ever hearing the 'opposition' promising to fight for the rights of the upper middle class to own a second home. Your theory holds no water.

I'm glad that you find this ridiculous.

 

[HTOLAS]

SL 's words at last GE' s broadcast were prophetic. Of you vote PAPZIs, you'll be reaping the results of their inbreeding.

political incest and inbreeding causes retarded politicians

 

[liongsum]

I can't recall ever hearing the 'opposition' promising to fight for the rights of the upper middle class to own a second home. Your theory holds no water.

It's probably to stem such ridiculous expectations that LTK attempted to moderate the euphoria.

 

[TracyTan866]

It's probably to stem such ridiculous expectations that LTK attempted to moderate the euphoria.

LTK is a good strategist. Now PAP finds WP more congenial than SDP