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WP's Fox or the Vixen?

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
In 2001, LTK became Sec General of WP. That same year Sylvia Lim joined the party. In over 2 years, she became the chairman. That move signaled 3 possible reasons, one the party did not have enough depth , the role is not politically important which is usually the case or this was a vixen and had potential. After 1991 in which Hougang was captured, the party did very little and its profile was covered by JBJ's legal issues.

3 years after becoming Chairman, her first litmus test was the release of the party manifesto in time for the GE. Ng Eng Hen took her on and repeatedly challanged her on a number of issues. She remained silent. Within a week, the picture became clear - WP was not prepared to allow anyone else to set the agenda.

Then couple of things began to surface, SL became point person to raise a comment, an issue on controversial nature but in a low key manner. Enough to set something alight. Aimgate was the last.

If you thought the power behind the throne was someone else, LTK delivers an uncharacteristic but lethal broadside against the govt and the SCM for their elections shennigans at the Hougang By Elections results press conference. The PAP was shocked and the press cowered.

So is it the fox or the vixen? So is it the buddhist boy from Chung Cheng High who first became a teacher or the roman catholic convent girl who became a Police Inspector. 2 individuals from the opposite side of the tracks. One went to Nantah and Mandarin is the first language, while the other went to NUS and English her first language.

Anyway, either of them would not have been considered for the PAP as MP material and they are screwing the hell out of the PAP, loaded with Harvard, Oxford, Cambridge, doctors, scholars, engineers, senior counselsand you get the idea.
 
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RandomNexus

Alfrescian
Loyal
Scro, if you ask me, I think she deserves big credit for winning Aljunied. Since 2001 which she stood there as a candidate, she has been working on the ground eversince. She has said it was an unglamourous job, with weekends burned as she walked door to door in Aljunied. These 10 years of hard work finally paid off in 2011 and I reckon this was significant in a fight to win Aljunied besides LTK putting himself up as a candidate, which one must also remember that Aljunied was helmed by one of most popular ministers around, George Yeo. It was no mean feat. Between George Yeo and Worker Party trio of LTK, Sylvia and CSM, I would have chosen the latter with some slight regret of casting out George Yeo, yet for the better good of Singapore.
 
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Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
Asset
The PAP (meaning LKY) has never been interested in recruiting politicians. It's the technocrats they have always been after.

However, with the gloss coming off the image of the PAP and with the inability of the party to guarantee a cushy ride into Parliament anymore, recruitment will probably be their biggest stumbling block in the years to come.

The only option left is the SAF.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Agree. Lot more credit than currently given. If GY despite his relative popularity can't hold the dam, its a telling sign.

I do note that she has thick veneer which has been hard to penetrate. There has not been a single interview that broke thru. I am reliably told that WP CEC does not really know the inner her except for LTK. And it was JBJ that pulled her into the WP orbit.

Scro, if you ask me, I think she deserves big credit for winning Aljunied. Since 2001 which she stood there as a candidate, she has been working on the ground eversince. She has said it was an unglamourous job, with weekends burned as she walked door to door in Aljunied. These 10 years of hard work finally paid off in 2011 and I reckon this was significant in a fight to win Aljunied besides LTK putting himself up as a candidate, which one must also remember that Aljunied was helmed by one of most popular ministers around, George Yeo. It was no mean feat. Between George Yeo and Worker Party trio of LTK, Sylvia and CSM, I would have chosen the latter with some slight regret of casting out George Yeo, yet for the better good of Singapore.
 

wwabbit

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Is it hard to imagine that the answer is "both" and that they just made a good team together?
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Agree with part 1 and 2. KPK shows they a scraping the bottom of the top rank. Its either next level or change their approach in a holistic manner.

Part 3. Both Chan and Tan have been drawing adverse reactions. And if you mean a martial approach, it less appealing as the families have second homes, families have dual citizenships, money squirrelled away etc. Note there are no 3rd generation from old man's side and none from the other leaders except for nice guy ex- cabinet minister Lee Yiok Suan whose son is now an MP.

The sale of F&N did not go unnoticed. That is part of the crown jewels. You do not make an offer unless "invited" and the competing OUE offer was not coincidental.


We are fast approaching a fork in the road. Interesting times.

The PAP (meaning LKY) has never been interested in recruiting politicians. It's the technocrats they have always been after.

However, with the gloss coming off the image of the PAP and with the inability of the party to guarantee a cushy ride into Parliament anymore, recruitment will probably be their biggest stumbling block in the years to come.

The only option left is the SAF.
 

metalmickey

Alfrescian
Loyal
The PAP (meaning LKY) has never been interested in recruiting politicians. It's the technocrats they have always been after.

However, with the gloss coming off the image of the PAP and with the inability of the party to guarantee a cushy ride into Parliament anymore, recruitment will probably be their biggest stumbling block in the years to come.

The only option left is the SAF.

I was scrutinising the credentials and the degrees of our highly academically qualified cabinet the other day. What Leongsam said is right. All are technocrats. You have plenty of degrees in engineers and economists. This is consistent with what my friends who were invited to apply for scholarships told me: they wanted you to study engineering or economics in the university.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Lee_Hsien_Loong_Cabinet

Tellingly, none of them have degrees in political science, not even one has a PPE from Oxford. They may be highly educated but they lack the right kinds of qualifications. None of them understand politics. At the most, they have a masters in public admin - I don't know how relevant that is.

Regarding the SAF, the SAF is the people's army. The people they can call up are those like you and I, unless they have segregated people into different divisions according to which political affiliation they have. I don't think they did that. They can't rely on the SAF and everybody knows that. If they want to send in the army against the people in case they want to put down the opposition, and if they call me up, I will shoot my commander.
 
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metalmickey

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Loyal
It could be complimentary. I suppose only the 2 of them know what is going on. The intrigue continues.

I recall reading that LKY and son and Goh Chok Tong were the inner cabinet within the cabinet. An analogy could be made that Low and Sylvia Lim are the CEC within the CEC.
 

metalmickey

Alfrescian
Loyal
Part 3. Both Chan and Tan have been drawing adverse reactions. And if you mean a martial approach, it less appealing as the families have second homes, families have dual citizenships, money squirrelled away etc. Note there are no 3rd generation from old man's side and none from the other leaders except for nice guy ex- cabinet minister Lee Yiok Suan whose son is now an MP.

I think that the political dynasty is over. If one of LHL's sons were to tell him, "I don't want to be PM just because my father was PM", I'm sure he can relate to that. The baton can definitely be passed to a non-Lee person. But who will carry the torch? Who's next?

A lot of things will not change. The PAP will still want to hold on to power. Others will change. What they'll be like without the Lees is anybody's guess. Life goes on.
 

Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
Asset
Tellingly, none of them have degrees in political science, not even one has a PPE from Oxford.

A degree in political science doesn't make one a politician. Politics has to come from the heart and the belly. Some people have the knack. Most don't.

LKY made no apologies for recruiting technocrats via the backdoor for political office. He admitted that they would be no match in a battle with someone possessing political acumen in their genetic make up. However, he warned sinkies that there was a huge difference between being able to deliver great soundbites and actually formulating and executing policies that helped the country.

His favorite term for any politician who is not in his camp is "charlatan".... a conman who is a smooth talker and persuader but is peddling nothing more than snake oil.

You know what... he is actually right. When it comes to boosting the share value of Singapore Inc, the Lee Li Lians of the world don't have what it takes. They may be able to lend a sympathetic ear to downtrodden members of society but when it comes to crafting a formula that takes Singapore to the next level, it takes more than empathy for ones fellow humans.

The sad part is that no PAP technocrat seems to have the answer either.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
There was a period where humanities was considered. The first generation of recruits had history, politics, economics, medicine plus PHD. They did not measure up, one even committed suicide. Thus the shift to engineering etc. part of the ason was that old felt that the thinking on politics and people should be confined to himself and Raja plus a few key Perm Sec.

Two streams were formed - one political leadership and the other was Perm Secs (the Mandarins) Lim Siong Guan and Eddie became first amongst the equals. Interestingly, the top political leadership within cabinet still remained within the followers of economics, physics and mathematics and now a medical doctor while a engineer keeps watch.

But it will people and families associated with OCBC that will be political custodians of this country.



Tellingly, none of them have degrees in political science, not even one has a PPE from Oxford. They may be highly educated but they lack the right kinds of qualifications. None of them understand politics. At the most, they have a masters in public admin - I don't know how relevant that is.

.
 

metalmickey

Alfrescian
Loyal
A degree in political science doesn't make one a politician. Politics has to come from the heart and the belly. Some people have the knack. Most don't.

LKY made no apologies for recruiting technocrats via the backdoor for political office. He admitted that they would be no match in a battle with someone possessing political acumen in their genetic make up. However, he warned sinkies that there was a huge difference between being able to deliver great soundbites and actually crafting policies that helped the country.

His favorite term for any politician who is not in his camp is "charlatan".... a conman who is a smooth talker and persuader but is peddling nothing more than snake oil.

You know what... he is actually right. When it comes to boosting the share value of Singapore Inc, the Lee Li Lians of the world don't have what it takes. They may be able to lend a sympathetic ear to downtrodden members of society but when it comes to crafting a formula that takes Singapore to the next level, it takes more than empathy for ones fellow humans.

The sad part is that no PAP technocrat seems to have the answer either.

There are maybe three big tasks for the government.

First is to ensure that there is economic growth. The PAP hasn't done too badly in this respect. But there is a sense that our long term economic well-being has been sacrificed in order to deliver short term results.
Second is to ensure that all people benefit from the economic growth. This one, they've failed terribly.
Third is to sell their vision of Singapore to the people. They also haven't done too badly. In fact they've done so well in this regard that people have been drinking the government's kool aid for long enough for the government to dig them in a large hole.

Regarding the second point, the failure to distribute the wealth of a nation evenly, to ensure an even rate of growth is damning for the Singapore government. It is even more damning when you consider that up around 1990 they had been doing a fairly OK job. And to be fair to Singapore, this problem is also to be found in many first world countries, particularly the anglo American countries like USA, UK, New Zealand. This is what happens when you send all your scholars to all those ang mor countries, they come back with those same ideas that will screw us up the way it screwed up the ang mor countries. There is a fetishisation of the private sector, governments get run like corporations, there is a nexus of the private and public sectors. Everybody gets too caught up in their KPIs, and it is those aspects that don't get measured by the KPI that will kill you in the end.

The problem when you forget about the social sciences and the humanities, is that when you confine yourself to an exclusively technocratic worldview. The people who are more humanities can take a step back and analyse different angles of the issues. Right now there is a debate that is going on in the western world. People in America are all complaining that they have a government "of the rich, by the rich and for the rich". The middle class is getting stretched and screwed, and they are not happy. It's useful to study what's going on over there because a lot of their problems are similar to us.

Much of the education that people receive these days in the economics is also very shallow and deprived of content. Economics has become too mathematical and it is more focused on mental agility and showing how clever you are, instead of reflecting the true situation. Having a prime minister who is trained in mathematics and statistics - oh boy you're really asking for it. Even when you work in finance you know that there are different types of wealth. One million dollars in collateral for bad debts is not the same as one million dollars in cash, and it is not the same as one million dollars in equity of a company run by a bunch of gifted businessmen. Wealth is always better when it is spread around, when it is in the middle class, or in the hands of common folk.

When Singapore was a third world country, it thrived because the early leaders were able to formulate unique solutions to problems. We didn't do things like a lot of the other third world countries did, maybe because our first generation of leaders were courageous enough to find their own way. Now we're just blindly copying other people and not being bold enough to go our own way, and that's why we got afflicted by the problems of the rest of the world. There's this word "corporatism", which helps explain what's going wrong with the world today - it's basically because so many governments are run as though they were corporations, and they impose corporate values on their citizens.

The mentality of our leaders are very warped, so when you listen to them speak you need to translate their ideas to reality and see the difference. They say "we have to look at the long term view instead of the short term". Well they've done exactly the opposite. Much of the reason why they screwed Singapore so badly is because they were too focused on short term GDP growth and they were taking the short term view. They say "we have to be able to implement unpopular policies for the good of the nation". Well the policies are unpopular because they are for the good of the elites, and people by and large understand that. They say "only we can deliver economic growth". But what's the use of economic growth, when so much of it is actually attributed to raising the price of the land so high that nobody can afford it?

It's not as though our admin service is totally incompetent. It can produce people like Donald Low who can articulate very well all the things that are wrong with Singapore. But I think the reason our system is rotten is because it's a system which edges out people like him who dare to tell it like it is. And if everything is controlled by OCBC - well maybe they don't really want what's best for Singaporeans. They just want to build an elite class system and put themselves at the top of the pyramid. The new aristocrats today are the "meritocrats", they are people who think that just because they work a few hours longer every week than everybody else, they deserve to be part of a gilded class and screw everybody else around.

Politics - I suppose it is important. But underlying all that is - are you doing the right thing for your citizens?
 

@rmadill0

Alfrescian
Loyal
The lost of GY is a by-product of their GRC implementation.

If Aljunied has not been a GRC but 5 different SMC, instead of getting all 5 seats, WP might just be able to get 3-4 depending on the match up. GY will still be around I am sure as WP won't be so stupid to send in a key person to challenge him.
 

TracyTan866

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
In 2001, LTK became Sec General of WP. That same year Sylvia Lim joined the party. In over 2 years, she became the chairman. That move signaled 3 possible reasons, one the party did not have enough depth , the role is not politically important which is usually the case or this was a vixen and had potential. After 1991 in which Hougang was captured, the party did very little and its profile was covered by JBJ's legal issues.

3 years after becoming Chairman, her first litmus test was the release of the party manifesto in time for the GE. Ng Eng Hen took her on and repeatedly challanged her on a number of issues. She remained silent. Within a week, the picture became clear - WP was not prepared to allow anyone else to set the agenda.

Then couple of things began to surface, SL became point person to raise a comment, an issue on controversial nature but in a low key manner. Enough to set something alight. Aimgate was the last.

If you thought the power behind the throne was someone else, LTK delivers an uncharacteristic but lethal broadside against the govt and the SCM for their elections shennigans at the Hougang By Elections results press conference. The PAP was shocked and the press cowered.

So is it the fox or the vixen? So is it the buddhist boy from Chung Cheng High who first became a teacher or the roman catholic convent girl who became a Police Inspector. 2 individuals from the opposite side of the tracks. One went to Nantah and Mandarin is the first language, while the other went to NUS and English her first language.

Anyway, either of them would not have been considered for the PAP as MP material and they are screwing the hell out of the PAP, loaded with Harvard, Oxford, Cambridge, doctors, scholars, engineers, senior counselsand you get the idea.

good points!!

i think they are a very successful tag team. i hope they are able to make the pap work harder for Singapore and Singaporeans. Being relatively moderate, LTK and SL appeal to conservative Singaporeans.

but we also need the fiery brand of politics like SDP's.
 

zeebjii

Alfrescian
Loyal
Between George Yeo and Worker Party trio of LTK, Sylvia and CSM, I would have chosen the latter with some slight regret of casting out George Yeo, yet for the better good of Singapore.

Again, you think too highly of george yeo. You may like him but if he was popular with the voters of aljunied he would have kept his seat.? WP must have done their homework.

You send the same aljunied team to jurong, AMK or tanjong pagar. you think they can win?
 

Fook Seng

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
The only option left is the SAF.
I agree with you. Those guys in the SAF are raring to come out. Those in the top management of GLCs probably think that their present jobs are more safe and lucrative.

One problem with even the SAF recruits. How do they walk the ground early within breaking any rules?
 

kingrant

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Loyal
My sense is that all of us, WP, Singaporeans et al, need the two to tango well. One without the other will not cut it. They are also not cut from the same cloth, so likelihood there isnt a lot of groupthink at the top at WP, which is important. One is comfy with the dialect and Mandarin, the other more so with the English educated, although both are not short in their alternate departments. It is vitally important for a leadership to have this complimentariness, yet exist with some healthy tension. The closest I can think of is LKY-GKS pair. Remember that both these men deliberately excluded Raja and Toh in the inner circle when Separation was decided upon.


So is it the fox or the vixen? So is it the buddhist boy from Chung Cheng High who first became a teacher or the roman catholic convent girl who became a Police Inspector. 2 individuals from the opposite side of the tracks. One went to Nantah and Mandarin is the first language, while the other went to NUS and English her first language.
 
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