• IP addresses are NOT logged in this forum so there's no point asking. Please note that this forum is full of homophobes, racists, lunatics, schizophrenics & absolute nut jobs with a smattering of geniuses, Chinese chauvinists, Moderate Muslims and last but not least a couple of "know-it-alls" constantly sprouting their dubious wisdom. If you believe that content generated by unsavory characters might cause you offense PLEASE LEAVE NOW! Sammyboy Admin and Staff are not responsible for your hurt feelings should you choose to read any of the content here.

    The OTHER forum is HERE so please stop asking.

Chitchat WP and 15 Jan 2021- the last dance ?

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Joined
Jul 16, 2008
Messages
25,132
Points
83
Success is always a double edged sword. Sweet yet cruel and more so in politics than anywhere else.

Since 2006, with Hougang safely in their hands they went forth with a strategy that worked in 2 general elections. It gave the nation hope. It broke down the GRC citadel. It is an interesting strategy and very similar to what Chiam had done - win the people over with hard work and dedication on the ground. It also meant avoid facing the PAP outside Parliament as the votes came from ordinary citizens. In 2015, that strategy surprisingly did not come thru. It certainly was not due to the lack of quality candidates. In fact it had a solid slate and better than any other time in their history at least in terms of academic qualifications and professional exposure.

Yes, there was the other side of the coin as well - the PAP worked hard to address or cover-up the pain points. And there is no doubt in anyone's mind that they did it by misappropriating public purse and pubic agencies to campaign on their behalf. And yes it was unfair and an uphill battle. But it does show the need for a better strategy. I am sure now that the PAP has found a formula that works, they are going to stick to it.

The challenge that WP now faces is that they have 4 years to create and maintain a position of an effective opposition by challenging and holding the PAP accountable and to be seen actually doing inside and outside Parliament.

It no longer can be a situation of raising questions in Parliament and Parliament only. That tactic is short sighted. Firstly the language of parliament will immediately remove the majority of citizens who have difficulty following and the state controlled press will play no part in telling the people what it all means. Secondly working the ground hard is no longer a forward moving tactic, it has become a defensive tactic to hold on to the existing seats. It is time that broader strategy where a myriad of platforms to engender discourse and discussions on politics and social issues of the day has to come into play. That means the WP must be prepared to challenge and engage the pubic and the Government in every issue that is of importance and a concern to Singaporeans.

In other words, they cannot be seen as mere municipal council staff diligently looking after town council matters. They also cannot be seen as reticent yet concerned individuals in a think tank environment quietly analysing policy proposals and offering alternatives as much as the PAP wants them to behave as such. It means to be seen, to be heard and to take the cause in a more energetic and more pronounced manner.

During the Hep C deaths, nothing was heard, during the train defects episode only Leon and Gerald made strong and effective comments but it quietened down within a day with a Pravda like statement on their website on the questions to be raised. No press conferences even for something as important as this.

If nothing changes, it will certainly be the last dance for quiet a while.
 
Last edited:
Sounds more like preaching to the converted.

Who really bother to follow the parliament session? What WP needs to do is to lie low, avoid confronting pap head on because local press will never paint WP in good light if there is one. WP will still end up being the loser.

Politicis is here is still being fought at local level. The advent of the internet still doesn't change this fact.
 
Success is always a double edged sword. Sweet yet cruel and more so in politics than anywhere else.

Since 2006, with Hougang safely in their hands they went forth with a strategy that worked in 2 general elections. It gave the nation hope. It broke down the GRC citadel. It is an interesting strategy and very similar to what Chiam had done - win the people over with hard work and dedication on the ground. Avoid facing the PAP as the votes came from ordinary citizens. in 2015, that strategy surprisingly did not come thru and it was certainly not due to the lack of quality candidates. In fact it had a solid slate and better than any other time in their history at least in terms of academic qualification and professional exposure.

Yes, there was the other side of the coin as well - the PAP worked hard to address or cover or even cover-up the pain points. And there is no doubt in anyone's mind that they did by misappropriating public purse and pubic agencies to campaign on their behalf. And yes it was unfair and an uphill battle. But it show the need for a better strategy. I am sure now that the PAP has found a formula and they are going to stick to it.

The challenge that WP now faces is that they have 4 years to create and maintain a position of an effective opposition by challenging and holding the PAP accountable and to be seen actually doing it.

It no longer can be a situation of raising questions in Parliament and Parliament only. That tactic is short sighted. Firstly the language of parliament will immediately remove the majority of citizens who have difficulty following and the state controlled press will play not part in telling the people what it all means. Secondly working the ground hard is no longer a forward moving tactic, it has become a defensive tactic to hold on to the existing seats. It is time that broader strategy where a myriad of platforms to engender discourse and discussions on politics and social issues of the day hs to come into play. That means the WP must be prepared to challenge and engage the pubic and the Government in every issue that is of importance and concern to Singaporeans.

In other words, they cannot be seen as mere municipal council staff diligently looking after town council matters. They also cannot be seen as reticent intellectuals in a think tank quietly analysing policy proposals and offering alternatives as much as the PAP wants them to behave as such. It means to be seen, to be heard and to take the cause in a more energetic and more pronounced manner.

During the Hep C deaths, nothing was heard, during the train defects episode only Leon and Gerald made strong and effective comments but it quietened down within a day with a Pravda like statement on their website on the questions to be raised. No press conferences even for something as important as this.

If nothing changes, it will certainly be the last dance for quiet a while.

WP must compile a dossier of pap's mistakes after Sep 2015:

1. Hep C concealment
2. MRT structural cracks concealment
3. Lift breakdowns

etc


And with LKY long dead and gone, next GE may see the resurgence of and many victories for Opposition Parties
 
I did not mention internet at all. Not confronting the PAP for the sake of it but to challenge them and holding them accountable. I think we know that parliament is now dead zone for proper press coverage. I would however be delighted if WP gains seats using the same strategy despite my reservations.

Sounds more like preaching to the converted.

Who really bother to follow the parliament session? What WP needs to do is to lie low, avoid confronting pap head on because local press will never paint WP in good light if there is one. WP will still end up being the loser.

Politicis is here is still being fought at local level. The advent of the internet still doesn't change this fact.
 
WP MPs are pretty useless.

They are whipping boys and girls for the PAP. When the PAP has the urge for some sadism, the WP MPs are faced with trumped up issues. The latter spends most of its time putting out fires created by the PAP.

Until the WP MPs step up to whack the PAP on every issue ...the PAP will continue to enjoy free reign in screwing sinkapore upside down.
 
WP MPs are pretty useless.

They are whipping boys and girls for the PAP. When the PAP has the urge for some sadism, the WP MPs are faced with trumped up issues. The latter spends most of its time putting out fires created by the PAP.

Until the WP MPs step up to whack the PAP on every issue ...the PAP will continue to enjoy free reign in screwing sinkapore upside down.

WP must recognise that their main role is to be law makers and a check on pap misdeeds. Municipal issues are secondary and WP must not fall into PAP's evil scheme and be bogged down with estate management. Employ good estate managers to run the Towns for them.

If WP does well in parliament and helps to check pap abuses, they will win the people's trust
 
I did not mention internet at all. Not confronting the PAP for the sake of it but to challenge them and holding them accountable. I think we know that parliament is now dead zone for proper press coverage. I would however be delighted if WP gains seats using the same strategy despite my reservations.

It doesn't work because if you challenge pap, they will likely up instruct the press to paint WP in bad light.

Sdp is a good example of pro active opposition who has been asking all the questions and holding pap to accountable but performed badly in every election.

Hardcore opposition who are expecting more assertiveness from WP really need to get a reality check. WP style will likely appeal more to the middleground.
 
WP must recognise that their main role is to be law makers and a check on pap misdeeds. Municipal issues are secondary and WP must not fall into PAP's evil scheme and be bogged down with estate management. Employ good estate managers to run the Towns for them.

If WP does well in parliament and helps to check pap abuses, they will win the people's trust

We need to be hounding the PAP at every opportunity. That's the role of the Opposition in a democracy. The Opposition is not there to cooperate with the government, only in exceptional circumstances like a disaster hit the country.

Looks like the WP MPs don't know their role, or they are so dead afraid of the PAP after a series of harassment from the PAP.
 
WP should:


--:: maintain high level of awareness of the opposition by being very proactive in voicing national issues

--:: continue the tried and tested grassroots work but place more emphasis on national concerns and explain concrete strategy of improving policies and hence people's lives
 
It doesn't work because if you challenge pap, they will likely up instruct the press to paint WP in bad light.

Sdp is a good example of pro active opposition who has been asking all the questions and holding pap to accountable but performed badly in every election.

Hardcore opposition who are expecting more assertiveness from WP really need to get a reality check. WP style will likely appeal more to the middleground.

SDP's human rights and civil liberties bent is the wrong message and WP knows to avoid that. The message has to be bread and butter issues and explaining things simply so that layman can emotionally connected to instantly. It is self defeatist to remain silent just because you fear press vilification. As long as you know your priorities are correct, you have to take the chance and trust that you can carry the message across even in a hostile media environment. Otherwise may as well just surrender
 
We need to be hounding the PAP at every opportunity. That's the role of the Opposition in a democracy. The Opposition is not there to cooperate with the government, only in exceptional circumstances like a disaster hit the country.

Looks like the WP MPs don't know their role, or they are so dead afraid of the PAP after a series of harassment from the PAP.

We need effective Opposition who dare to challenge pap for SG's good
 
WP will continue to be tight-lipped mice. Their MPs are enjoying the 16K allowances
in addition to the TC salaries.
Tell me, who in WP is above the 16k salary bracket if in private sector ?
This 16k is too much to be in politics; it is bribery.
 
WP will continue to be tight-lipped mice. Their MPs are enjoying the 16K allowances
in addition to the TC salaries.
Tell me, who in WP is above the 16k salary bracket if in private sector ?
This 16k is too much to be in politics; it is bribery.

Sorry but until the pap loses its 2/3 majority, I prefer to scrutinize the pap rather than the WP
 
Sorry but until the pap loses its 2/3 majority, I prefer to scrutinize the pap rather than the WP

All parties need to be scrutinized, whether PAP or WP or SDP or any other P!

The WP, like the PAP is not beyond scrutiny. The WP made many mistakes too, you know that?

In fact, the presence of the WP is the chief hindrance to the proper development of opposition politics in Singapore. As long as the WP remains the main opposition party, the PAP will never lose its 2/3 majority.

The WP squandered the goodwill and trust of the opposition supporters in Singapore. The WP became too arrogant to cooperate with the other opposition parties after the GE in 2011. Remember my words here, LTK will not be remembered well in Singapore history by being a vision-less, narrow-minded and gut-less politician!
 
Last edited:
All parties need to be scrutinized, whether PAP or WP or SDP or any other P!

The WP, like the PAP is not beyond scrutiny. The WP made many mistakes too, you know that?

In fact, the presence of the WP is the chief hindrance to the proper development of opposition politics in Singapore. As long as the WP remains the main opposition party, the PAP will never lose its 2/3 majority.

The WP squandered the goodwill and trust of the opposition supporters in Singapore. The WP became too arrogant to cooperate with the other opposition parties after the GE in 2011. Remember my words here, LTK will not be remembered well in Singapore history by being a vision-less, narrow-minded and gut-less politician!

Hi bastard pap dog

Long time no see. Haven't die yet huh.
 
I think we should bear in mind that there is no other credible and functioning opposition party that is electable other than WP. Most Singaporeans did not expect the 2015 results. We actually thought that more seats would be gained. The lost of Punggol East was actually quite a surprise and rather close margin of Aljunied is also a concern.

We cannot afford to let WP slide and therefore its important that we raise it now and offer suggestions while there is time to prepare the ground.

My concern is that contentious issues like the Hep C and the trains issues are lost opportunities. I remember the Sengkang Columbarium before the 2015 GE was something that WP should have been involved. I kept silent and I do regret it now. For those who recall the incident it was near riot by the residents and the Govt had no idea that an Australian company tendered for the project. In the end the Govt made a U turn. Though it was raised in Parliament by WP, WP's involvement never got the profile.
 
WHAT MORE DO U EXPECT fm wp ?
wHEREBY THEir chief is not interested to be PM or rather
take on the PM ? Then why is he there..?
They are half-bake and hv never been RELENTLESS is their spoken issues.
They are wasting everybody's time......... except the PAP.
 
I think we should bear in mind that there is no other credible and functioning opposition party that is electable other than WP. Most Singaporeans did not expect the 2015 results. We actually thought that more seats would be gained. The lost of Punggol East was actually quite a surprise and rather close margin of Aljunied is also a concern.

We cannot afford to let WP slide and therefore its important that we raise it now and offer suggestions while there is time to prepare the ground.

My concern is that contentious issues like the Hep C and the trains issues are lost opportunities. I remember the Sengkang Columbarium before the 2015 GE was something that WP should have been involved. I kept silent and I do regret it now. For those who recall the incident it was near riot by the residents and the Govt had no idea that an Australian company tendered for the project. In the end the Govt made a U turn. Though it was raised in Parliament by WP, WP's involvement never got the profile.

Ordinary Singaporeans, by and large, have stopped believing in Singapore. Those who stay want to get through their lives as easily as possible. Those who do believe, are active in opposition. The PAP exist to take care of the elites and console their consciences that "trickle-down" will feed the masses. This is a very pessimistic outlook. The PAP have no vision at all. That's clear. But they are the dog in the manger. Carlos Milan, where are you ?
 
Ordinary Singaporeans, by and large, have stopped believing in Singapore. Those who stay want to get through their lives as easily as possible. Those who do believe, are active in opposition. The PAP exist to take care of the elites and console their consciences that "trickle-down" will feed the masses. This is a very pessimistic outlook. The PAP have no vision at all. That's clear. But they are the dog in the manger. Carlos Milan, where are you ?

pap's taking care of their own kinds instead of caring for Singaporeans is going to be their undoing. pap has gone down the wrong path and needs to replace their top leaders if they want to sustain their dominance
 
Back
Top