Will you sing for the SDP?

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Bro I am 100% "vehemently" against Yaw Shin Leong continuing to stand as an opposition politician period regardless of which party he belongs to (including being an independent). Like I said before and shall continue to say again, this is an issue of "principle" plain and simple.

Oh and I agree with one of the other forumer's earlier post i.e. if Yaw Shin Leong had shown genuine sincere remorse and regret over this episode and made an unequivocal apology for his breach of principle, than perhaps over time I would be able to consider giving Yaw a break.

However thus far Yaw has totally failed to do so, in fact to make matters even worse Yaw has pathetically tried to fudge the issue altogether with bizaare incoherent irrational 'logic' to explain away his dishonesty. Well no cigar Yaw Shin Leong:oIo:

Btw sorry to repeat myself, but let me make it clear once again, I did not expect Yaw to vote for the oppositition candidate if he did not want to do so. However I did expect Yaw to then spoil his vote and under no circumstances vote for the PAP candidate.

There are many ways to arguing this issue. Though i do not take Porfiro's stand of being so vehemently against him, i do feel that it is ironical for him to do so.

Is it not the stance of the opposition parties here that the issue is to be anti-PAP, to reduce PAP's dominance rather than to evaluate the quality of their opposition, their leaders and their candidates?

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

What kind of f@#king "awakening" was that? Care to enlighten me?

I try to be as soft and kind as possible, but I have to agree with you and bro Scroobal. Upon re-reading it, what I referred to as an "apology" in the YSL blog wasn't an apology at all. An "awakening" at best, but still unapologetic.

 

[popdod]

I did not expect Yaw to vote for the oppositition candidate if he did not want to do so.

However I did expect Yaw to then spoil his vote and under no circumstances vote for the PAP candidate.

Precisely.
Did he ever think of a bigger picture?

Sending the msg to the public, the rivals are much better.
Who will vote for them then?
Who will join them?

Really sabotage to his own teammates.

:(

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Sorry Bro but on this specific issue of "principle" I cannot compromise. Under such circumstances I rather deal with the "devil I know" (PAP) rather than the lame pathetic "devil that I do not know"(Yaw Shin Leong).

Oh and what "slap on the wrist" was that? To remain on WP's CEC and hold the position of organising secretary? WTF

Dear Porifrio

There was I believe a slap on the wrist for YSL and suffice it to say in so much as a certain section of the electorate are calling for his " head" me included, that has to be balanced by a lack of suitable candidates willing to stand. As unsuitable as yours truely is I was also approached for the last GE and that illustrates to me the lack of depth within the opposition ranks. If there is GE 2009 as I believe there will be then whatever distaste I have for YSL will be over taken by the need for candidates. If its GE 2010 then he can go and suck thumb if there are better replacements in the pipeline. Sad fact is if better qualified people do not step forth and serve then we will for ever be led by "blithering buffoons" like YSL.


Locke

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Porifirio

Errr principles are one thing but when faced with an up coming GE in 2009, the opposition caught with their panties down errrrrrr sometimes principles can be dammed when faced with electoral reality. Take me I would rather have YSL's head and I can't stand that condescending arrogant twat but with GE 2009 a strong prospect nothing matters more than a good showing



Locke

 

[Ramseth]

What kind of f@#king "awakening" was that? Care to enlighten me?

Okay okay cool it man. Take it as there's no awakening. I'm not YSL's nanny or defender, neither am I the enlightened one.

 

[kakowi]

Your original question was: "I recently came across an interesting (to me) question: what is it that kept LTK and CST unmolested all these long years when other opposition politicians are falling down like ten pins in the face of the PAP's ball."

That's my answer. Different opposition leaders have taken different approaches. You want to shove the mountain aside, or chip away and conquer the mountain. The former takes bigger efforts and dedication but the latter sees more slow successes.

It is like when you receive a present, you may keep it, give it to someone else, throw it away or use it.

Do not think of CSJ as a fallen-down pin. He has as much support from pro-opposition Singaporeans as LTK and CST, maybe even more. What he lost was the undecided voters but the former itself is already a victory for him given that he has never won a seat.

I can see your point.

My point of view was formed when i placed a photo of LTK side by side with JBJ in 1991 and then in 2008; the backdrop of JBJ asking for funds from his own party so that he can compete in the GE 1991;

another photo of LTK side by side with CSJ just after he was declared bankrupted; the backdrop of SDP feeling outraged by the comments made;

and i asked myself the question: why was he unmolested when JBJ and CSJ are not? Refer to my earlier GE stats for Hougang from 1996 to 2006 where the PAP does not appear to change the composition much thus giving LTK a continued advantage;

As a result, I have a different conclusion from yours.

 

[kakowi]

Bro I am 100% "vehemently" against Yaw Shin Leong...

Which is why i am bemused by you because in one of our earlier discussions, if i recall correctly, your position is that the purpose of voting is to reduce the PAP dominance - never mind if he is a bicycle thief.

Actually, though you will disagree, i find Ramseth's point that YSL is a 'bit too honest' as something i agree with. Why does he need to score a point off the SDP by pointing out his voting preference?

But i do find your reaction a bit too extreme.

Cool...

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

I am a pragmatist but at the sametime I have to draw the line somewhere. To me Yaw Shin Leong crossed that line.

Dear Porifirio

Errr principles are one thing but when faced with an up coming GE in 2009, the opposition caught with their panties down errrrrrr sometimes principles can be dammed when faced with electoral reality. Take me I would rather have YSL's head and I can't stand that condescending arrogant twat but with GE 2009 a strong prospect nothing matters more than a good showing



Locke

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Sorry Bro, but I just cannot stomach Yaw Shin Leong.

Okay okay cool it man. Take it as there's no awakening. I'm not YSL's nanny or defender, neither am I the enlightened one.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Ah but there is no contradiction afterall Bro. You see with the "bicycle thief" at least he is, ironically, "honest" enough to come clean and admit that he is a "bicycle thief", so I know where I stand with him.

However when it comes to Yaw Shin Leong, this chap does not have the integrity and character to even admit his patent error instead he prevaricates and equivocates with incoherent irrational 'logic' to try and pathetically twist his way out of his dishonest conduct. Ergo I do not know where I stand with him and hence I would not 'touch' him with a barge pole.

Now you and Ramseth may find Yaw "a bit too honest" but all I see is a dishonest arrogant conceited dummkopf.

And you know why I am so angry with Yaw Shin Leong? Because his conduct and actions make a mockery out of being an opposition politician under trying local political conditions, which are already extremely challenging enough without the likes of him making it even worse. More so since todate Yaw has not seen fit to provide a genuine sincere unqualified apology to the public electorate for being dishonest to them.

Oh and PAP Teo Ho Pin's recent "be thankful" arrogant conceited mishandling of the Town Council Minibonds fiasco further shows what a poor judge of character Yaw really is (not forgetting PAP Teo's lame self-serving spin to help his 'master' PAP Wong Kan Seng during the earlier Mas Selamt Kestari fiasco). More like birds of a feather flock together.

I spit on Yaw Shin Leong once again:oIo:

Which is why i am bemused by you because in one of our earlier discussions, if i recall correctly, your position is that the purpose of voting is to reduce the PAP dominance - never mind if he is a bicycle thief.

Actually, though you will disagree, i find Ramseth's point that YSL is a 'bit too honest' as something i agree with. Why does he need to score a point off the SDP by pointing out his voting preference?

But i do find your reaction a bit too extreme.

Cool...

 

[Chia Tse Li]

i do not think YSL is being honest when he blogged about his voting for the PAP. He perhaps was thinking that he has his so called 'principle' (as explained in his post) and with that thought that he can impress upon his readers as one who is rational, cool and 'unbiased'... eg. even though he represents the opposition, he may not vote for the opposition. However, after realising the reactions from the electorate after his posts being read and flamed upon, he might be thinking in his heart now that he had made a mistake by sharing that and he should have kept this a secret afterall. And I bet he indeed is thinking so. Thus, what honesty is that? It is not. His intention when writing that post and posting it was not an intention of wanting to be honest but an intention of wanting to impress and score points. However, his so call logic and rationale do not hold water, in my views, they are simply shallow. With this episode, it really exhibited YSL as one without material nor substance. Here, we are not asking for any genius or rocket scientist or any very intelligent person to stand for election. the very least we can ask for is some one with an above average level of of wisdom and intellect. However, YSL does not even make it to that (in my view). Furthermore, his lack of political integrity and not being nor feeling sorry for causing so much grieve to the electorate, further added on to his absolute inadequacy to represent the opposition ranks.

 

[Perspective]

Ironically just based on Yaw Shin Leong's stupidity alone, Yaw has "pleased PAP"

That is based on interpretation but I wonder if there is anything evident to point out earlier that he is indeed trying to get into the PAP's "good books" as insinuated earlier. If not, that would not be interpretation, to me, but speculation.

For example, I would think it is common to hear LTK not asking WKS to resign "pleased the PAP" (or not if Ng Eng Hen's comments were anything to go by) but to say LTK was aiming to be fielded under the PAP ticket in Hougang one day is something else.

Let me turn around and raise that if any day, I say in this forum that Dr CSJ has certainly "pleased the PAP" by "helping" it gain back 2 seats, I am sure I would ruffle some serious feathers, given that the SDP focuses substantially on the internet and has an active internet following.

But no worries as I do not see either case that way. All in all, LTK, CSJ and YSL all stands as equal earners in getting my personal, individual vote against the PAP. Not LHD.

 

[kakowi]

Ah but there is no contradiction afterall ...

Chill...he is after all is said and done, in the fight

Close?

 

[guavatree]

if they continue thinking they are always right when the peasants think not, then obviously something is amissed here - they had become the law!

the peasants are:

bob sim the PAP dog

bob sim the temple thief

bob sim the handphone thief

bob sim the father basher

bob sim the chao ah kwa

bob sim the fake monk

bob sim the con-man & cheat

bob sim the shape shifter

bob sim the moron who called his mother lau-chee-bye

LOL

 

[guavatree]

u got to ask my li'l brother leetahsar.

your li'l brother ... LOL

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Getting into PAP's "good books" can be interpretated in many different ways Bro. I would say Yaw Shin Leong's dishonest conduct even up today (since he has failed to make a genuine sincere unqualified apology to the public electorate which he deceived) put's him in PAP's "good books" because how can it get any better when your own opponent comes out to endorse you?

That is based on interpretation but I wonder if there is anything evident to point out earlier that he is indeed trying to get into the PAP's "good books" as insinuated earlier. If not, that would not be interpretation, to me, but speculation.

What is the problem with "ruffling feathers" if what you say is based on sound coherent rational logic in good faith, unless you are out to curry favour and gain brownie points within certain quarters?

I criticise all and anyone from Yaw Shin leong, Sylvia Lim, Low Thia Khiang; to Chaim See Tong; to the late JBJ; to Goh Meng Seng, Tan Kin Lian; to Dr Chee, Chia Ti Lik, Ng E-Jay; to Yap Keng Ho, M Ravi, Gopalan Nair etc and of course the PAPs. However I have also been known to agree with some or all of them at times even the PAPs!

This is all part of the dialectic process of debate which serves a good purpose so long as it is conducted in good faith at the end of the day

Let me turn around and raise that if any day, I say in this forum that Dr CSJ has certainly "pleased the PAP" by "helping" it gain back 2 seats, I am sure I would ruffle some serious feathers, given that the SDP focuses substantially on the internet and has an active internet following.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Sorry Bro, but this is where I have to take issue with you and Lockeliberal.

On this specific particular issue of "principle" I cannot subscribe to the pragmatic "means to an end" oh he is "in the fight" position. Especially since todate Yaw Shin Leong has failed to even come out with a genuine sincere unqualified apology to the public electorate that he deceived. Surely Singapore and Singaporeans deserve better than this dishonest chap?

I shall continue to spit on Yaw Shin Leong and all the humbug he appears to stand for, and hope he get's heckled, booed and jeered at the hustings if he has the gall and audacity to stand in the next GE and also hope he loses his deposit as well.:oIo:

Oh and unlike Yaw Shin Leong, I shall agitate for voters to "spoil" their vote when it comes to Yaw and not vote PAP instead

Chill...he is after all is said and done, in the fight

Close?

 

[Perspective]

What is the problem with "ruffling feathers" if what you say is based on sound coherent rational logic in good faith, unless you are out to curry favour and gain brownie points within certain quarters?

This is all part of the dialectic process of debate which serves a good purpose so long as it is conducted in good faith at the end of the day

No, I am alright with ruffling feathers. This was raised merely as an example of how some people would think it is far-fetched to speculate that Dr CSJ was "planted by PAP to lose seats for opposition" - of course, this is something I don't agree.

You have made a good point, bro.

 

[kakowi]

Sorry Bro, but this is where I have to take issue with you and Lockeliberal...

Well, given the dearth of good quality opposition candidates it will not help the cause when there is so much in-fighting, even amongst supporters.

Granted that to us, he seems to have a confusion about his role as an opposition candidate.

But if you look at his reason why he decided not to vote for SDP, i read it as a symptom of a more serious disease - the lack of unity amongst the opposition. And for him at the very least, a sense of parochial politics when you recall his blog post on a two-party system - PAP and WP (which was discussed here earlier).

Now, a lack of unity and a parochial approach to politics is something more for LTK and the rest of the WP CEC to correct him on - that is, provided they are of that opinion. Whatever you want to say, Porfiro, has been said , if i can use the mild word 'said', and even if you go on a one-man crusade against him, the only beneficiary is MP Teo and he will only tell you that it is high time you show him gratitude.

If, like Lockeliberal says, the time for GE is nigh, then at a certain point in time, the opposition parties need to close ranks and to a certain extent, the supporters too.

This does not excuse him, of course. Rather a higher cause awaits.