Chitchat Will you go to hell after death? Some believe they will

[nightsafari]

Yes, I believe this too. Consciousness and learning arrive to each one at different times.

so you will note my non-interference with certain members when they expound their religion.

 

[glockman]

Which God we believe in is largely determined by where we are brought up, the environment, culture, place, history, etc etc. So which is the true God is really rubbish and people who insist that their God is the real God is the most fuckup of all species.

I am so thankful I wasn't born in the middle east! I love pork too much.

 

[glockman]

Too involved in a project work which I took that will earn me half a m plus. So better spend more effort and time there than write rubbish for free here

Yes, better work hard then. Next round of drinks on you!

 

[hofmann]

was just waiting to see who's going to point that out.



unfortunately common amongst just about any religious group.

Yes and unfortunately very prevalent amongst xtians. Or maybe I just happen to interact more with them.

But kudos to John for trying to defend his faith to himself. May he find the truth in his search.

Truth always prevails over dogma.

 

[whoami]

honestly. I personally don't believe whatever anyone is doing constitutes sihr. As far as I know and feel, everyone just doing their own thing. If you refer to bomohs and whatnot then yes, it could be anyone, but still I feel they are practising whatever their ancestors have passed down. To me it's just a cultural curiosity not sihr.

Those days no doctor. So they may seek help from witch doctor or bomoh. Some cured after consulting them. Some doesnt and its the work of shaitan or jinn. Tats according to my belief. I have no comments on other belief.

because I am disappointed with people passing judgment on both sides with racial arguments. I don't believe in racism. actually to be more accurate, I believe we are improved because of mixing between Malays, Indians and Chinese.

No one is perfect. No one race is perfect. Every believer will say their religion is perfect. Atheist also said their "religion" is perfect.

I offer this as an observation and speculation. Please take it without offense if it causes such. I will argue that as a race, they were semua boleh. For some reason, Malaysia seems a lot "cleaner" than Indonesia. main judi and minum arak are not crimes to me. if main judi dengan guli what's the harm? minum arak bergurau senda dengan kawan also what's the problem? If main judi then setelah kalah hantam/pukul then we have problem no? You can be good Malay and judi/arak or not, but you can be bad Malay even if you tak judi/arak.

No worry, bro. Is people like u i enjoy exchanging views. I dont mind sacrificing some of my free time just to answer ur post. What i cant tolerate is people who keep repeating same question over and over again...out of the blue cursed and swear at u. KNN! Sorry sweetiepie. Need to borrow ur signature.

Mentioned several times in the Quran why Allah forbid alcohol and game of chance. God just want us to have a happy family away from such vices. As u can see from the papers the consequences of alcohol. As for game of chance we also hear people committing suicide...caused broken homes...etc etc. Just like drugs! We humans are weakling, Not everyone like u, can control desire when in casino or drinking in the company of girls. So in order not to involve such vices better stay far far away. Lebih bagus kan? I have no problem with cheena or makal who drink in my presence. I just order my teh tarik kurang gula. The one i highlighted above is the main problem we try to avoid. Well, if one think by drinking lightly and yet can drive....go ahead.

And yes, I have seen religious people of all stripes being worst hypocrite. And no, I don't see Malays being better because of religion. More rule-following for sure, but better or worse I really don't see benefit. If I may share my experience, when I talk to a Turkish Muslim, or an Iraqi, it is very, very different how they talk about Islam. Malays when I talk to them I feel they are describing themselves but just calling it Islam. Similar to ME people. They are really describing themselves, but all say Islam. My stomach doesn't feel well whenever someone says we believe in same religion, we are all the same. No, that is not true.

This problem is also exactly the same as with Chinese people overseas and China. Share same language and looks think same people. The truth is very different.

this shit sama sama all over the world. Indians and Chinese too. pui!

I cant speak on behalf of others. But i personally have change alot. Have i not go back to basic, i.e. reading/understanding the Quran/hadith, i guess i will still be the same old self i.e. ignorant, selfish, hot-tempered and full of greed! Alhamdullillah! Thats why i said ur company very important. Mixing with the right friends play an important role, imo. Same too...not all Malays are good. They said Msian and Spore Malays just like abang and adik. Far from it.....

I stand firmly on my ground that Malays didn't need to be taught this. As a whole, they generally did that without needing anyone telling them. Of course you got a few troublemakers in any race, but what was remarkable was it seems to be in the blood or culture of Malays to take care of everyone like their relative. Even they take care of me. So why so much instruction? Because of Middle Eastern influence. Terrible lot as you say. They needed it. Malays are literally a world apart from Middle Easterners.

The Quran just happened to be in Arabic. That doesnt mean is an Arab religion. Not every muslims dressed up like Arabs. Look at Chinese and Indian and matsalleh Muslims around u. I myself just put on a songkok and pelikat. Tak pakai serban pun. I ate Malay and cina halal food. No arab food leh. So in what way they influence me? Is it cos i speak Arabic? Show me any verses in the Quran tat Allah instructed the followers to follow Arab culture, speak arabic and marry arabs etc etc etc. The Quran is the Word of God. Some said Islam is a religion as well as way of life. Thats it. Islam teaches u how to be good from the moment u wake up till u retire in bed. Of course u can still claim no need a book to teach me. I can train and discipline myself. But when u are small and young, who taught u to behave well and discipline? For me is my parent. And most of the knowledge they got it from the holy scripture.

This one above I leave for you, because it is entirely up to you, but honestly, I spent some time learning about Judaism because in my university more than 50% Jewish so I had a chance to talk to many of them. A lot of very, very different views. After going through all of those views, I did my own studies and the only conclusion I can draw is that it the original faith was designed as a political tool to unite the tribes for survival against other tribes. This is based on what their scholars dug up about their own history. Whatever was written was good for the tribe, and generally quite good guidelines, but bad for anybody outside tribe. If you study early versions of most religions, you will find it is easy for them to kill other people who don't follow same religion. If you have time, you may want to spend a bit of time seeing how they came up with it. I think it's relevant because without them, both Christianity and Islam will not exist. I also think that religion confuses the issue and the identity. Too many people have died for political reasons because religion was used to justify political reasons. That is the reason why they came up with it in the 1st place.

no lah! you misunderstand me. geram sekarang! just joking la...

Torah was taught to the Jews ONLY. Same when Jesus was preaching to his disciplines. Jesus did not introduce new laws except to fulfil laws of Moses. (New Living Translation)

“Don’t misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose. [Matthew 5:17]

Nevertheless i tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that i go away, for if i do not go away, the Comforter will not come to you; but if i depart, i will send him to u. (John 16:7)

[And] the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the [Creator] will sent in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said to you. [John 14:26]

Moses(as) prophesied:

“And the Lord said unto me. They have well spoken that which they have spoken, I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.” (Deuteronomy 18:17-19]​

The above verses mentioned is the prophecy of the coming of another great Prophet i.e. Prophet Muhammad.


يٌا أَيُّهٌا النٌّاسُ إِنٌّا خَلَقْنٌاكُم مِّنْ ذَكَرٍ وَأُنـثَى وَجَعَلْنٌاكُمْ شُعُوباً وَقَبٌائِلَ لِتَعٌارَفُوا إِنَّ أَكْرَمَكُمْ عِنْدَ اللٌّهِ أَتْقٌـكُمْ إِنَّ اللٌّهَ عَلِيمٌ خَبِيرٌ

“O’ Humanity! Without doubt We have created you from a male and a female and have made you into various nations and tribes, so that you may come to know and understand one another. Definitely the most honoured among you in the sight of Allah is the one who is the most Allah-Consciousness. Surely Allah has full Knowledge and is All-Aware.”

As u can see from the above, Islam is meant for all nations, all races. Not just for Arabs/tribes.

I don't mean possession! what I mean is everything has an innate soul even a rock and a tree. if you look into a kucing it has a kucing spirit -- it's own soul. if turtle have its own soul. everything including you and me. you have yours and I have mine. if something dies, it's soul leaves and it's just a piece of meat left behind. I will easily tell you a dead person and an asleep person have a very different feel. That's because their soul is still with them when alive. so what I am saying is that your fren the despatch rider has a very good soul -- his own sendiri punya. that is uniquely him. you cannot replicate it no matter how you try. even two people look alike can be very different souls. In my circle of acquaintances, I have someone who looks exactly like me, but one day my friend decided to show me something. He picked up his 1 year old son and put him in my hands. The child said nothing and held on to me for a few minutes where my friend took his son back. He later told me that when he did the same to my lookalike, his son screamed his head off. We all knew my lookalike not such a good person. As with your fren the despatch rider, I believe everyone who is with him will feel comfortable, happy and relaxed. I have never met him, but is my guess correct? That is his good soul. Even if you beat him, he will still be that soul. That is unique and special and if you have a friend like that you are a lucky man. To me there is only the soul. Because your friend is a good man with a good soul and he has good intentions, that is enough. I don't believe in magic in any form, only the "magic" that is born within each of us. So bukan saya campur. All else is irrelevant to me including bomoh and I cannot see any effect except from the natural born soul within each of us. I think our perception on this is different. You see either this way or that way. I see have something or have nothing. Bomoh I see I start laughing because it is a have not. tak ada magic la tu. Whereas you see either religion or bomoh. To me both have not. Very empty. Only the people carry the "magic" within themselves. good or bad. If your fren it is definitely a have. Even with you. ada. I'm sure you have drawn your conclusions on me and others in this forum! It is the believers who have something. geddit?

I have to agree with u. We differ on this i.e. soul, spirit, ilmu. Yes, every human being have souls. Else theres no Heaven or Hell.

We Muslims believe Allah, Angels, Prophets, Holy scriptures, shiatan and jinn, Hereafter! No compromise on that. Abit about my friend. When he was young he also rock here and there. Play 4 digit also. But one night he had a dream and was told to meet this person. And that person stayed miles and miles apart. That person change him totally. He started going to basic...study the Quran and the hadiths..and practise the sunnah of the prophet. The rest very long story lah. So u see.....what he is now was how he discipline himself, learnt from a good religious guru....and Allah will guide him. Not everyone boleh ada ilmu batin dari Tuhan. But if one wishes to have instant ilmu...very easy. Just follow shaitan. Tom shaitan or Jinn will come to u. I am serious. U dont believe me u can PM me. I can share with u. But i will not be responsible for ur sins. Tat i and u will have to take a vow. God is the witness. All good or bad come from ALLAH.

To me all the "magic" is within ourselves. Yes you too and your fren the rider too. Sometimes that person is bad inside then jaga lah.

good enuf for me. some of the people I have met have scared me with their beliefs.

apa tu? i don't watch videos from anywhere as a rule unless 2 minutes or shorter.

Nope, i dont agree. Here we differ again. As far as Muslim is concerned we have to be a good practising Muslims. Knowledge or ilmu alone is not enough. Righteousness very important. Tink i mentioned to u before if ilmu alone can bring us to Paradise, then Shaitan sure succeed rite? Hes very powerful...but not as powerful as human being. Thats why Allah asked Shaitan to bow to Nabi Adam. But he refused and was cursed by Allah. Humans are far greater than Jinn. Why should we seek help from them. Seek help from the Almighty Allah. Oh ya....do u know know the moment u are born a Jinn already with u. And teres also two angels on both ur shoulder. The Jinn will goda till ur last breath. As for the two angels, one will record ur bad while the other one will record ur good deeds. So no escape for u my friend. Heheheheh....

Every nite i follow the chinese series at Channel U lah. Nice shows unlike Suria. Anyway last nite was the last episode...

 

[whoami]

@AhMeng, why so quiet lately? in deep thoughts?

I still waiting for his FR?

 

[whoami]

Too involved in a project work which I took that will earn me half a m plus. So better spend more effort and time there than write rubbish for free here

Actually quite true. Here only tcss just to kill time. But if time can earn u HALF A MILLION...go for it monyet.

 

[JohnTan]

And from my experience, some of the worse people I have met are christians.

Opposing a good government is sin? Rebellion is akin to witchcraft? Hahahaha, good one! You can be funny when you want to.

From my experience, some of the worst people I've met were oppies, atheists and moslems. Some of the nicest people I've met personally were fellow Christians.

Historical context will note that Jesus was a rebel.

That's the problem with Christians and religion, picking and choosing which bits of history to recall and conveniently forgetting the inconvenient truths.

Historical context will show that while Jesus went against a lot of the established religious and social norms of his day, he was not a political rebel.

He paid the Roman tax, his sermons avoided politics. He spoke a lot about the Kingdom of God, which was not a political kingdom on earth. Symbolically, he rode on a donkey into Jerusalem unarmed. His disciples too never once started a political uprising. Nor did they led roving bands to raid merchants, did not kill soldiers nor civilians, nor sold captives into slavery.

That's the problem with non-Christians. They hate Christianity so much that they speak half truths and lies to justify their crap.

But kudos to John for trying to defend his faith to himself. May he find the truth in his search.

Truth always prevails over dogma.

Truth is knowing that you are righteous and stand blameless before God because Jesus died and atoned for your sins.

Dogma is arrogance believing that

- you can get right with God on your effort by doing lots of good deeds, praying and following rituals

- rejecting Jesus because you are too proud to accept that someone would actually pay your own sins

- rejecting Jesus because you think you are so damn smart and think this deal is too good to be true

- rejecting Jesus because you cannot accept that others whom you despise for their lowly status or crooked nature can actually gain heaven because of Jesus

 

[nightsafari]

Those days no doctor. So they may seek help from witch doctor or bomoh. Some cured after consulting them. Some doesnt and its the work of shaitan or jinn. Tats according to my belief. I have no comments on other belief.

i also have no opinion on this. just a curiosity for me.

No one is perfect. No one race is perfect. Every believer will say their religion is perfect. Atheist also said their "religion" is perfect.

what you say is true. The moment someone says their belief is perfect, I slow down. Atheists are just as extremist as other beliefs.

No worry, bro. Is people like u i enjoy exchanging views. I dont mind sacrificing some of my free time just to answer ur post. What i cant tolerate is people who keep repeating same question over and over again...out of the blue cursed and swear at u. KNN! Sorry sweetiepie. Need to borrow ur signature.

I think @sweetiepie happy we use his KNN!

Mentioned several times in the Quran why Allah forbid alcohol and game of chance. God just want us to have a happy family away from such vices. As u can see from the papers the consequences of alcohol. As for game of chance we also hear people committing suicide...caused broken homes...etc etc. Just like drugs! We humans are weakling, Not everyone like u, can control desire when in casino or drinking in the company of girls. So in order not to involve such vices better stay far far away. Lebih bagus kan? I have no problem with cheena or makal who drink in my presence. I just order my teh tarik kurang gula. The one i highlighted above is the main problem we try to avoid. Well, if one think by drinking lightly and yet can drive....go ahead.

funny u mention this. I can walk through a casino and spend hours there and play just one game or two. win, lose to pass some time, I will happily stop anytime. can pack up go home and continue without thinking twice. same with company of girls. I enjoy talking to them, finding out what they do, why they do it, but also anytime I can walk away.

I cant speak on behalf of others. But i personally have change alot. Have i not go back to basic, i.e. reading/understanding the Quran/hadith, i guess i will still be the same old self i.e. ignorant, selfish, hot-tempered and full of greed! Alhamdullillah! Thats why i said ur company very important. Mixing with the right friends play an important role, imo. Same too...not all Malays are good. They said Msian and Spore Malays just like abang and adik. Far from it.....

u not the only one liddat when young.

The Quran just happened to be in Arabic. That doesnt mean is an Arab religion. Not every muslims dressed up like Arabs. Look at Chinese and Indian and matsalleh Muslims around u. I myself just put on a songkok and pelikat. Tak pakai serban pun. I ate Malay and cina halal food. No arab food leh. So in what way they influence me? Is it cos i speak Arabic? Show me any verses in the Quran tat Allah instructed the followers to follow Arab culture, speak arabic and marry arabs etc etc etc. The Quran is the Word of God. Some said Islam is a religion as well as way of life. Thats it. Islam teaches u how to be good from the moment u wake up till u retire in bed. Of course u can still claim no need a book to teach me. I can train and discipline myself. But when u are small and young, who taught u to behave well and discipline? For me is my parent. And most of the knowledge they got it from the holy scripture.

this is where I think the problems come. The problem is some people have told me that they must follow what the Arabs do because they are the "original" people of Islam. They will follow no one else. This problem is not just Muslims but Christians too. Look at Trump. Why is he and so many other Americans so in favour of Israel? You guessed it. The jews are the "original" people of god. For everyone of you that tells me no need to be like Arab, there is easily 5 more willing to follow the "original" people and what they do. I don't know how many Singapore Christians you talk to, but a good number will tell me this all the time. A too high number of Malay Muslims also talk about Arabs in worshipful tones. Don't believe me just look at America and how many supporters for Israel. Even more than Jews that support Israel. This is their only reasoning. So I don't dispute that it teaches you a way of life that is good for you. But it is clear from seeing other people who say the same things as you but are doing 100% opposite. They say the are following exactly the same things you are, but they will do 100% different. On this, you have some opinion as @glockman. He says religion teaches him to lead a better life. ( I believe he's talking about Christianity). I say that he leads a better life because of himself. Another person read the same thing as glockie will go and invade Middle East or go and hang black people. This is my issue. Not you and your belief in god. But that it is the mind of the believer that once reading it decides to go ahead and do it. If the mind is corrupt, following ANY religion even atheism will enable them to do very sinful things.

Nope, i dont agree. Here we differ again. As far as Muslim is concerned we have to be a good practising Muslims. Knowledge or ilmu alone is not enough. Righteousness very important.

no I don't disagree with you on righteousness. I am saying that it is YOU who chooses to be righteous. If you go to mosque and see other Muslims there, reading same thing, saying same thing do the all behave as righteously as you? If a corrupt soul who is bent on being sinful, all the scriptures in the world will just make this person feel empowered to go and be sinful. He will use his ilmu to do more harm.

Tink i mentioned to u before if ilmu alone can bring us to Paradise, then Shaitan sure succeed rite?

see we don't disagree at all. reading and ilmu all not important to me. How much knowledge do I have? Nowhere near most people here. some people in this forum have tested my smarts. I always fail their tests. only people and the history of what happened inform me. I am really quite book stupid. u see this thread? I am probably least knowledgeable ilmu of anyone here. For me to understand something, I must live with it first before I understand. All my writings not from ilmu. but from my experiences with people which I'm lucky to have had. Once I meet them and talk to them and see how they live, then I can start understanding. Before that kosong!

Hes very powerful...but not as powerful as human being. Thats why Allah asked Shaitan to bow to Nabi Adam. But he refused and was cursed by Allah. Humans are far greater than Jinn. Why should we seek help from them. Seek help from the Almighty Allah. Oh ya....do u know know the moment u are born a Jinn already with u. And teres also two angels on both ur shoulder. The Jinn will goda till ur last breath. As for the two angels, one will record ur bad while the other one will record ur good deeds. So no escape for u my friend. Heheheheh....

This I have no experience with and until I experience it I will treat it as an interesting story. Sometimes I found it good to be stupid at learning through books.

Anyway, thank you for talking. it is interesting.

 

[nightsafari]

Historical context will show that while Jesus went against a lot of the established religious and social norms of his day, he was not a political rebel.

He paid the Roman tax, his sermons avoided politics. He spoke a lot about the Kingdom of God, which was not a political kingdom on earth. Symbolically, he rode on a donkey into Jerusalem unarmed. His disciples too never once started a political uprising. Nor did they led roving bands to raid merchants, did not kill soldiers nor civilians, nor sold captives into slavery.

uh... so that explains why he was crucified by the Romans then?

 

[Mark9999]

I still waiting for his FR?

Read another thread, he reading a book on Japanese life.

 

[Mark9999]

Read another thread, he reading a book on Japanese life.

While his Shanghai Bund ATB was sleeping.

 

[JohnTan]

uh... so that explains why he was crucified by the Romans then?

Pharisees who follow dogma really hated Jesus for upsetting the status quo and exposing them as hypocrites. The roman governor gave in to populist pressure, washed his hands off the case and crucified Jesus to appease the crowds.

This is also a lesson for the PAP to not give in to populist demands of oppies, lest their name go down in eternal infamy like Pontius Pilate.

 

[glockman]

uh... so that explains why he was crucified by the Romans then?

It was the Jews that killed Jesus. The Romans were the weapon the Jews used, to borrow the chinese saying 借刀杀人.

 

[glockman]

Looks like an interesting read.

The Synopsis of "Jesus Lived In India" by Holger Kersten was written by Dr Ramesh Manocha & Anna Potts.

Holger Kersten: "It is simply of vital importance to find again the path to the sources, to the eternal and central truths of Christ's message, which has been shaken almost beyond recognition by the profane ambitions of more or less secular institutions arrogating to themselves a religious authority. This is an attempt to open a way to a new future, firmly founded in the true spiritual and religious sources of the past".

Thus begins Holger Kersten's book "Jesus Lived in India". This German book is a thorough, methodical and authoritative examination of the evidence of Christ's life beyond the Middle East before the Crucifixion and in India and elsewhere after it.

This article is a summary of Kersten's exhaustive research into Christ's travels after the Crucifixion, his arrival in India with the Mother Mary and finally his death and entombment in Kashmir. Kersten notes the many parallels of Christ's teachings with other religious and cultural traditions and suggests that at least some of these figures may have been one and the same personality. It is not possible, Kersten asserts, to disprove that Christ went to India. The current information documenting Christ's life is restricted to the gospels and the work of Church theologians. One can hardly trust these sources to be objective considering their obvious interest in maintaining the authority of their Church and its grip on the masses.

The Russian scholar, Nicolai Notovich, was the first to suggest that Christ may have gone to India. In 1887, Notovich, a Russian scholar and Orientalist, arrived in Kashmir during one of several journeys to the Orient. At the Zoji-la pass Notovich was a guest in a Buddhist monastery, where a monk told him of the bhodisattva saint called "Issa". Notovich was stunned by the remarkable parallels of Issa's teachings and martyrdom with that of Christ's life, teachings and crucifixion.

For about sixteen years, Christ travelled through Turkey, Persia, Western Europe and possibly England. He finally arrived with Mary to a place near Kashmir, where she died. After many years in Kashmir, teaching to an appreciative population, who venerated him as a great prophet, reformer and saint, he died and was buried in a tomb in Kashmir itself.

The first step in Christ's trail after the Crucifixion is found in the Persian scholar F. Mohammed's historical work "Jami-ut-tuwarik" which tells of Christ's arrival in the kingdom of Nisibis, by royal invitation. (Nisibis is today known as Nusaybin in Turkey) . This is reiterated in the Imam Abu Jafar Muhammed's "Tafsi-Ibn-i-Jamir at-tubri." Kersten found that in both Turkey and Persia there are ancient stories of a saint called "Yuz Asaf" ("Leader of the Healed"), whose behaviour, miracles and teachings are remarkably similar to that of Christ.

The many Islamic and Hindu historical works recording local history and legends of kings, noblemen and saints of the areas thought to be travelled by Jesus also give evidence of a Christ like man; the Koran, for example, refers to Christ as "Issar". Further east, the Kurdish tribes of Eastern Anatolia have several stories describing Christ's stay in Eastern Turkey after his resurrection. These traditional legends have been ignored by the theological community.

Kersten also suggests that prior to Christ's mission in the Middle East, he may have been exposed to Buddhist teachings in Egypt. After his birth in Bethlehem, his family fled to Egypt to avoid Herod's persecution. Surprisingly some scholars now acknowledge that Buddhist schools probably existed in Alexandria long before the Christian era.

More clues are drawn from the Apocrypha. These are texts said to have been written by the Apostles but which are not officially accepted by the Church. Indeed, the Church regards them as heresy since a substantial amount of the Apocrypha directly contradicts Church dogma and theology. The Apocryphal 'Acts of Thomas', for example, tell how Christ met Thomas several times after the Crucifixion. In fact they tell us how Christ sent Thomas to teach his spirituality in India. This is corroborated by evidence found in the form of stone inscriptions at Fatehpur Sikri, near the Taj Mahal, in Northern India. They include "Agrapha", which are sayings of Christ that don't exist in the mainstream Bible. Their grammatical form is most similar to that of the Apocryphal gospel of Thomas. This is but one example giving credibility to the idea that texts not recognised by the Church hold important clues about Christ's true life and his teachings.

In tracing Christ's movements to India and beyond, Kersten also discovered that many of his teachings, which have been gradually edited out of the modern Bible were originally Eastern in nature. Principles such as karma and re-incarnation, for example, were common knowledge then, and seem to have been reaffirmed by Christ. Imagine the implications that this discovery holds for Western Christianity and its churches, who have kept Christ in their doctrinal top pockets and have constrained the entire Western culture within the narrow teachings of blind faith, organised religion and original sin!

Further clues are cited from The Apocryphal Acts of Thomas, and the Gospel of Thomas which are of Syrian origin and have been dated to the 4th Century AD, or possibly earlier. They are Gnostic Scriptures and despite the evidence indicating their authenticity, they are not given credence by mainstream theologians. In these texts Thomas tells of Christ's appearance in Andrapolis, Paphlagonia (today known as in the extreme north of Anatolia) as a guest of the King of Andrappa. There he met with Thomas who had arrived separately. It is at Andrapolis that Christ entreated Thomas to go to India to begin spreading his teachings. It seems that Christ and Mary then moved along the West coast of Turkey, proof of this could be an old stopping place for travellers called the "Home of Mary", found along the ancient silk route. From here Christ could easily have entered Europe via France. He may have even travelled as far as the British Isles, for in England there is an ancient oak tree called the "Hallowed Tree" which (says local legend) was planted by Christ himself.

In his travels through Persia (today's Iran) Christ became known as Yuz Asaf (leader of the Healed). We know this because a Kashmiri historical document confirms that Isa (the Koranic name for Christ) was in fact also known as Yuz Asaf. The Jami - uf - Tamarik, Volume II, tells that Yuz Asaf visited Masslige, where he attended the grave of Shem, Noah's son. There are various other accounts such as Agha Mustafa's "Awhali Shahaii-i-paras" that tell of Yuz Asaf's travels and teachings all over Persia. It seems that Yuz Asaf blessed Afghanistan and Pakistan with his presence also. There are for example two plains in Eastern Afghanistan near Gazni and Galalabad, bearing the name of the prophet Yuz Asaf. Again in the Apocryphal Acts of Thomas, Thomas says that he and Christ attended the Court of King Gundafor of Taxila (now Pakistan), in about 47AD, and that eventually both the King and his brother accepted Christ's teachings. Kersten claims that there are more than twenty one historical documents that bear witness to the existence of Jesus in Kashmir, where he was known also as Yuz Asaf and Issa. For example the Bhavishyat Mahapurana (volume 9 verses 17-32) contains an account of Issa-Masih (Jesus the Messiah). It describes Christ's arrival in the Kashmir region of India and his encounter with King Shalivahana, who ruled the Kushan area (39-50AD), and who entertained Christ as a guest for some time.

{Christ's life in India, after the crucifixion, challenges current Church teachings at their very foundation. The theology of Saint Paul, the major influence on modern Christianity, is empty fanaticism in the light of this discovery.|

The historian Mullah Nadini (1413) also recounts a story of Yuz Asaf who was a contemporary to King Gopadatta, and confirms that he also used the name Issar, ie. Jesus. There is also much historical truth in the towns and villages of Northern India to prove that Jesus and his mother Mary spent time in the area. For instance, at the border of a small town called Mari, there is nearby a mountain called Pindi Point, upon which is an old tomb called Mai Mari da Asthan or "The final resting place of Mary". The tomb is said to be very old and local Muslims venerate it as the grave of Issa's (ie Christ's) Mother. The tomb itself is oriented East-West consistent with the Jewish tradition, despite the fact it is within a Muslim area. Assuming its antiquity, such a tomb could not be Hindu either since the Hindus contemporary to Christ cremated their dead and scattered their ashes as do Hindus today.

Following Christ's trail into Kashmir, 40km south of Srinagar, between the villages of Naugam and Nilmge is a meadow called Yuz-Marg (the meadow of Yuz Asaf, ie. Jesus). Then there is the sacred building called Aish Muqam, 60km south east of Srinagar and 12km from Bij Bihara. "Aish" says Kersten is derived from "Issa" and "Muqam" place of rest or repose. Within the Aish Muqam is a sacred relic called the 'Moses Rod' or the 'Jesus Rod', which local legend says, belonged to Moses himself. Christ is said to also have held it, perhaps to confirm his Mosaic heritage. Above the town of Srinagar is a temple known as "The Throne of Solomon", which dates back to at least 1000BC, which King Gopadatta had restored at about the same time as Christ's advent. The restoration was done by a Persian architect who personally left four inscriptions on the side steps of the temple. The third and fourth inscription read: "At this time Yuz Asaf announced his prophetic calling in Year 50 and 4" and "He is Jesus -- Prophet of the Sons of Israel"! Herein lies a powerful confirmation of Kersten's theory. Kersten suggests that Christ may have travelled to the South of India also, finally returning to Kashmir to die at the age of approximately 80 years. Christ's tomb, says Kersten, lies in Srinagar's old town in a building called Rozabal. "Rozabal" is an abbreviation of Rauza Bal, meaning "tomb of a prophet". At the entrance there is an inscription explaining that Yuz Asaf is buried along with another Moslem saint. Both have gravestones which are oriented in North-South direction, according to Moslem tradition. However, through a small opening the true burial chamber can be seen, in which there is the Sarcophagus of Yuz Asaf in East-West (Jewish) orientation!

According to Professor Hassnain, who has studied this tomb, there are carved footprints on the grave stones and when closely examined, carved images of a crucifix and a rosary. The footprints of Yuz Asaf have what appear to be scars represented on both feet, if one assumes that they are crucifixion scars, then their position is consistent with the scars shown in the Turin Shroud (left foot nailed over right). Crucifixion was not practised in Asia, so it is quite possible that they were inflicted elsewhere, such as the Middle East. The tomb is called by some as "Hazrat Issa Sahib" or "Tomb of the Lord Master Jesus". Ancient records acknowledge the existence of the tomb as long ago as 112AD. The Grand Mufti, a prominent Muslim Cleric, himself has confirmed that Hazrat Isa Sahib is indeed the tomb of Yuz Asaf!

Thus Kersten deduces that the tomb of Jesus Christ Himself is in Kashmir!

The implications of Kersten's discovery are monumental. Christ's life in India, after the crucifixion, challenges current Church teachings at their very foundation. The theology of Saint Paul, the major influence on modern Christianity, is empty fanaticism in the light of this discovery. Threatened also are the doctrines of obedience to the Church, original sin, salvation through blind faith and the non-existence of reincarnation, etc. Yet these ideas underlie the morality and ethics, (or lack of them), that govern the entire Western social structure, from the legal system to medical health care schemes. It is no wonder that the modern Churches and their secular interests refuse to consider such a proposition as Kersten's!

https://www.sol.com.au/kor/7_01.htm

 

[nightsafari]

It was the Jews that killed Jesus. The Romans were the weapon the Jews used, to borrow the chinese saying 借刀杀人.

er.... yah... I'm just interested in his viewpoint of how Jesus was not a rebel but was killed for being one....

 

[hofmann]

Pharisees who follow dogma really hated Jesus for upsetting the status quo and exposing them as hypocrites. The roman governor gave in to populist pressure, washed his hands off the case and crucified Jesus to appease the crowds.

This is also a lesson for the PAP to not give in to populist demands of oppies, lest their name go down in eternal infamy like Pontius Pilate.

Yes and to fast forward from the crucifixion to 1789, when the cries of the people were ignored, kingdoms fell and heads rolled, bringing us the modern freedoms we enjoy today.

You could say Marie Antoinette died so that we all could be free. Saint mother marie Antoinette, who gave her up her cake so that we can all have some too.

 

[hofmann]

Looks like an interesting read.

The Synopsis of "Jesus Lived In India" by Holger Kersten was written by Dr Ramesh Manocha & Anna Potts.

Holger Kersten: "It is simply of vital importance to find again the path to the sources, to the eternal and central truths of Christ's message, which has been shaken almost beyond recognition by the profane ambitions of more or less secular institutions arrogating to themselves a religious authority. This is an attempt to open a way to a new future, firmly founded in the true spiritual and religious sources of the past".

Thus begins Holger Kersten's book "Jesus Lived in India". This German book is a thorough, methodical and authoritative examination of the evidence of Christ's life beyond the Middle East before the Crucifixion and in India and elsewhere after it.

This article is a summary of Kersten's exhaustive research into Christ's travels after the Crucifixion, his arrival in India with the Mother Mary and finally his death and entombment in Kashmir. Kersten notes the many parallels of Christ's teachings with other religious and cultural traditions and suggests that at least some of these figures may have been one and the same personality. It is not possible, Kersten asserts, to disprove that Christ went to India. The current information documenting Christ's life is restricted to the gospels and the work of Church theologians. One can hardly trust these sources to be objective considering their obvious interest in maintaining the authority of their Church and its grip on the masses.

The Russian scholar, Nicolai Notovich, was the first to suggest that Christ may have gone to India. In 1887, Notovich, a Russian scholar and Orientalist, arrived in Kashmir during one of several journeys to the Orient. At the Zoji-la pass Notovich was a guest in a Buddhist monastery, where a monk told him of the bhodisattva saint called "Issa". Notovich was stunned by the remarkable parallels of Issa's teachings and martyrdom with that of Christ's life, teachings and crucifixion.

For about sixteen years, Christ travelled through Turkey, Persia, Western Europe and possibly England. He finally arrived with Mary to a place near Kashmir, where she died. After many years in Kashmir, teaching to an appreciative population, who venerated him as a great prophet, reformer and saint, he died and was buried in a tomb in Kashmir itself.

The first step in Christ's trail after the Crucifixion is found in the Persian scholar F. Mohammed's historical work "Jami-ut-tuwarik" which tells of Christ's arrival in the kingdom of Nisibis, by royal invitation. (Nisibis is today known as Nusaybin in Turkey) . This is reiterated in the Imam Abu Jafar Muhammed's "Tafsi-Ibn-i-Jamir at-tubri." Kersten found that in both Turkey and Persia there are ancient stories of a saint called "Yuz Asaf" ("Leader of the Healed"), whose behaviour, miracles and teachings are remarkably similar to that of Christ.

The many Islamic and Hindu historical works recording local history and legends of kings, noblemen and saints of the areas thought to be travelled by Jesus also give evidence of a Christ like man; the Koran, for example, refers to Christ as "Issar". Further east, the Kurdish tribes of Eastern Anatolia have several stories describing Christ's stay in Eastern Turkey after his resurrection. These traditional legends have been ignored by the theological community.

Kersten also suggests that prior to Christ's mission in the Middle East, he may have been exposed to Buddhist teachings in Egypt. After his birth in Bethlehem, his family fled to Egypt to avoid Herod's persecution. Surprisingly some scholars now acknowledge that Buddhist schools probably existed in Alexandria long before the Christian era.

More clues are drawn from the Apocrypha. These are texts said to have been written by the Apostles but which are not officially accepted by the Church. Indeed, the Church regards them as heresy since a substantial amount of the Apocrypha directly contradicts Church dogma and theology. The Apocryphal 'Acts of Thomas', for example, tell how Christ met Thomas several times after the Crucifixion. In fact they tell us how Christ sent Thomas to teach his spirituality in India. This is corroborated by evidence found in the form of stone inscriptions at Fatehpur Sikri, near the Taj Mahal, in Northern India. They include "Agrapha", which are sayings of Christ that don't exist in the mainstream Bible. Their grammatical form is most similar to that of the Apocryphal gospel of Thomas. This is but one example giving credibility to the idea that texts not recognised by the Church hold important clues about Christ's true life and his teachings.

In tracing Christ's movements to India and beyond, Kersten also discovered that many of his teachings, which have been gradually edited out of the modern Bible were originally Eastern in nature. Principles such as karma and re-incarnation, for example, were common knowledge then, and seem to have been reaffirmed by Christ. Imagine the implications that this discovery holds for Western Christianity and its churches, who have kept Christ in their doctrinal top pockets and have constrained the entire Western culture within the narrow teachings of blind faith, organised religion and original sin!

Further clues are cited from The Apocryphal Acts of Thomas, and the Gospel of Thomas which are of Syrian origin and have been dated to the 4th Century AD, or possibly earlier. They are Gnostic Scriptures and despite the evidence indicating their authenticity, they are not given credence by mainstream theologians. In these texts Thomas tells of Christ's appearance in Andrapolis, Paphlagonia (today known as in the extreme north of Anatolia) as a guest of the King of Andrappa. There he met with Thomas who had arrived separately. It is at Andrapolis that Christ entreated Thomas to go to India to begin spreading his teachings. It seems that Christ and Mary then moved along the West coast of Turkey, proof of this could be an old stopping place for travellers called the "Home of Mary", found along the ancient silk route. From here Christ could easily have entered Europe via France. He may have even travelled as far as the British Isles, for in England there is an ancient oak tree called the "Hallowed Tree" which (says local legend) was planted by Christ himself.

In his travels through Persia (today's Iran) Christ became known as Yuz Asaf (leader of the Healed). We know this because a Kashmiri historical document confirms that Isa (the Koranic name for Christ) was in fact also known as Yuz Asaf. The Jami - uf - Tamarik, Volume II, tells that Yuz Asaf visited Masslige, where he attended the grave of Shem, Noah's son. There are various other accounts such as Agha Mustafa's "Awhali Shahaii-i-paras" that tell of Yuz Asaf's travels and teachings all over Persia. It seems that Yuz Asaf blessed Afghanistan and Pakistan with his presence also. There are for example two plains in Eastern Afghanistan near Gazni and Galalabad, bearing the name of the prophet Yuz Asaf. Again in the Apocryphal Acts of Thomas, Thomas says that he and Christ attended the Court of King Gundafor of Taxila (now Pakistan), in about 47AD, and that eventually both the King and his brother accepted Christ's teachings. Kersten claims that there are more than twenty one historical documents that bear witness to the existence of Jesus in Kashmir, where he was known also as Yuz Asaf and Issa. For example the Bhavishyat Mahapurana (volume 9 verses 17-32) contains an account of Issa-Masih (Jesus the Messiah). It describes Christ's arrival in the Kashmir region of India and his encounter with King Shalivahana, who ruled the Kushan area (39-50AD), and who entertained Christ as a guest for some time.

{Christ's life in India, after the crucifixion, challenges current Church teachings at their very foundation. The theology of Saint Paul, the major influence on modern Christianity, is empty fanaticism in the light of this discovery.|

The historian Mullah Nadini (1413) also recounts a story of Yuz Asaf who was a contemporary to King Gopadatta, and confirms that he also used the name Issar, ie. Jesus. There is also much historical truth in the towns and villages of Northern India to prove that Jesus and his mother Mary spent time in the area. For instance, at the border of a small town called Mari, there is nearby a mountain called Pindi Point, upon which is an old tomb called Mai Mari da Asthan or "The final resting place of Mary". The tomb is said to be very old and local Muslims venerate it as the grave of Issa's (ie Christ's) Mother. The tomb itself is oriented East-West consistent with the Jewish tradition, despite the fact it is within a Muslim area. Assuming its antiquity, such a tomb could not be Hindu either since the Hindus contemporary to Christ cremated their dead and scattered their ashes as do Hindus today.

Following Christ's trail into Kashmir, 40km south of Srinagar, between the villages of Naugam and Nilmge is a meadow called Yuz-Marg (the meadow of Yuz Asaf, ie. Jesus). Then there is the sacred building called Aish Muqam, 60km south east of Srinagar and 12km from Bij Bihara. "Aish" says Kersten is derived from "Issa" and "Muqam" place of rest or repose. Within the Aish Muqam is a sacred relic called the 'Moses Rod' or the 'Jesus Rod', which local legend says, belonged to Moses himself. Christ is said to also have held it, perhaps to confirm his Mosaic heritage. Above the town of Srinagar is a temple known as "The Throne of Solomon", which dates back to at least 1000BC, which King Gopadatta had restored at about the same time as Christ's advent. The restoration was done by a Persian architect who personally left four inscriptions on the side steps of the temple. The third and fourth inscription read: "At this time Yuz Asaf announced his prophetic calling in Year 50 and 4" and "He is Jesus -- Prophet of the Sons of Israel"! Herein lies a powerful confirmation of Kersten's theory. Kersten suggests that Christ may have travelled to the South of India also, finally returning to Kashmir to die at the age of approximately 80 years. Christ's tomb, says Kersten, lies in Srinagar's old town in a building called Rozabal. "Rozabal" is an abbreviation of Rauza Bal, meaning "tomb of a prophet". At the entrance there is an inscription explaining that Yuz Asaf is buried along with another Moslem saint. Both have gravestones which are oriented in North-South direction, according to Moslem tradition. However, through a small opening the true burial chamber can be seen, in which there is the Sarcophagus of Yuz Asaf in East-West (Jewish) orientation!

According to Professor Hassnain, who has studied this tomb, there are carved footprints on the grave stones and when closely examined, carved images of a crucifix and a rosary. The footprints of Yuz Asaf have what appear to be scars represented on both feet, if one assumes that they are crucifixion scars, then their position is consistent with the scars shown in the Turin Shroud (left foot nailed over right). Crucifixion was not practised in Asia, so it is quite possible that they were inflicted elsewhere, such as the Middle East. The tomb is called by some as "Hazrat Issa Sahib" or "Tomb of the Lord Master Jesus". Ancient records acknowledge the existence of the tomb as long ago as 112AD. The Grand Mufti, a prominent Muslim Cleric, himself has confirmed that Hazrat Isa Sahib is indeed the tomb of Yuz Asaf!

Thus Kersten deduces that the tomb of Jesus Christ Himself is in Kashmir!

The implications of Kersten's discovery are monumental. Christ's life in India, after the crucifixion, challenges current Church teachings at their very foundation. The theology of Saint Paul, the major influence on modern Christianity, is empty fanaticism in the light of this discovery. Threatened also are the doctrines of obedience to the Church, original sin, salvation through blind faith and the non-existence of reincarnation, etc. Yet these ideas underlie the morality and ethics, (or lack of them), that govern the entire Western social structure, from the legal system to medical health care schemes. It is no wonder that the modern Churches and their secular interests refuse to consider such a proposition as Kersten's!

https://www.sol.com.au/kor/7_01.htm

Fantastic extract Gman. Thanks for taking the time to highlight the juicy bits.

Suddenly the ongoing conflict in Kashmir makes some sense. If peace were to settle in the region, there will be numerous pilgrimages to visit the tomb of harzat Isa sahib to pay their respects.

I journey on to find the truth; unifying theory of religion. Resolving it remains as elusive as unifying quantum mechanics with general relativity.

I seek a heaven for all, and would rather burn in your hell than have you burn in mine.

Peace.

 

[whoami]

i also have no opinion on this. just a curiosity for me.

Is good to be curious. Then u probe, study and u will come to ur own conclusion. In islamic context, when we mentioned Jinn, it applies to all other beliefs too. Jinn islam and non islam. If we are spiritual weak, shaitan or jinn can overtake u i.e. possess. But more often than not is the work of their master i.e. human....commanding the jinn to do such. As u know in taoist they have trance, xtianity trance/speaking tongue, Malays also have trance like kudang kepang, Hinduism also have trance etc etc. All these are the work of shaitan/jinn...

what you say is true. The moment someone says their belief is perfect, I slow down. Atheists are just as extremist as other beliefs.

For example Habib Noor. Still have his keramat at Palmer road. He didnt claim to be a saint. But if u visit the keramat/mosque, the keeper there will tell u why Habib Noor was considered a saint.

I think @sweetiepie happy we use his KNN!

Hehehe....i rarely use such term. Last time very frequently used. All kind of "beautiful" works i used. Multi lingual somemore. But I have changed. Bornagain Muslim?

funny u mention this. I can walk through a casino and spend hours there and play just one game or two. win, lose to pass some time, I will happily stop anytime. can pack up go home and continue without thinking twice. same with company of girls. I enjoy talking to them, finding out what they do, why they do it, but also anytime I can walk away.

Tats why i said not everyone like u. Out of100 how many can actually control their desires...be it wine, gambling and ahem....woman? Not everyone have strong will power like nightsafari. Look around u. U can see Malay/Muslims buying 4-d( i used to buy also), drinking anjing kao, mthly pilgrimage to btm etc etc. Allah know. Thats why HE discourage us to dwell in such vices.

u not the only one liddat when young.

Yes. Sampai bila kita nak happy jolly buat maksiat. There will come a time we have to sit and ponder over our past mistakes and repent.

this is where I think the problems come. The problem is some people have told me that they must follow what the Arabs do because they are the "original" people of Islam. They will follow no one else. This problem is not just Muslims but Christians too. Look at Trump. Why is he and so many other Americans so in favour of Israel? You guessed it. The jews are the "original" people of god. For everyone of you that tells me no need to be like Arab, there is easily 5 more willing to follow the "original" people and what they do. I don't know how many Singapore Christians you talk to, but a good number will tell me this all the time. A too high number of Malay Muslims also talk about Arabs in worshipful tones. Don't believe me just look at America and how many supporters for Israel. Even more than Jews that support Israel. This is their only reasoning. So I don't dispute that it teaches you a way of life that is good for you. But it is clear from seeing other people who say the same things as you but are doing 100% opposite. They say the are following exactly the same things you are, but they will do 100% different. On this, you have some opinion as @glockman. He says religion teaches him to lead a better life. ( I believe he's talking about Christianity). I say that he leads a better life because of himself. Another person read the same thing as glockie will go and invade Middle East or go and hang black people. This is my issue. Not you and your belief in god. But that it is the mind of the believer that once reading it decides to go ahead and do it. If the mind is corrupt, following ANY religion even atheism will enable them to do very sinful things.

In our daily 5 prayers, only the first chapter of the Quran is compulsory to read in Arabic language. Is only short 7 verses. If cant read or pronounce in Arabic, one can read in romanised version.

1. بِسْمِ اللَّهِ الرَّحْمَنِ الرَّحِيمِ
(Bismillāhi r-raḥmāni r-raḥīm)

2. الْحَمْدُ لِلَّهِ رَبِّ الْعَالَمِينَ
(Al ḥamdu lillāhi rabbi l-’ālamīn)

3. الرَّحْمَنِ الرَّحِيمِ
(Ar raḥmāni r-raḥīm)

4. مَالِكِ يَوْمِ الدِّينِ
(Māliki yawmi d-dīn)

5. إِيَّاكَ نَعْبُدُ وَإِيَّاكَ نَسْتَعِينُ
(Iyyāka na’budu wa iyyāka nasta’īn)

6. اهْدِنَا الصِّرَاطَ الْمُسْتَقِيمَ
(Ihdinā ṣ-ṣirāṭ al-mustaqīm)

7. صِرَاطَ الَّذِينَ أَنْعَمْتَ عَلَيْهِمْ غَيْرِ الْمَغْضُوبِ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلَا الضَّالِّينَ
(Ṣirāṭ al-l jīna an’amta ‘alayhim, ġayril maġḍūbi ‘alayhim walāḍ ḍāllīn)

(English translation)
1. "In The Name of Allah, The Beneficent, The Merciful."
2. "(All) praise is (only) Allah's, the Lord of the Worlds."
3. "The Beneficent, The Merciful."
4. "Master of the Day of Judgement."
5. "Thee (alone) do we worship and of Thee (only) do we seek help."
6. "Guide us (O' Lord) on the Straight Path."
7. "The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed Thy bounties, not (the path) of those inflicted with Thy wrath, nor (of those) gone astray."

Actually most of the practising Muslims like to follow what our Prophet did during his life time . His habit, how he dressed, taking care of his wife, children, family, etc etc etc. And why not? Hes our Prophet. We love him very much. Hes the Messenger of Allah. Though we love him very much, hes still afterall a human. Not a god. So u dont see portrait or statue of him. So to say we follow exactly what the Arabs did not so correct lah, imo.

Yes...i agree with u. Lots of xtians supported the Jews more than the Jews themselves. And Jesus also make it plain that He was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel (Matthew 15:24). Only to the Jews and not the gentiles, imo.

no I don't disagree with you on righteousness. I am saying that it is YOU who chooses to be righteous. If you go to mosque and see other Muslims there, reading same thing, saying same thing do the all behave as righteously as you? If a corrupt soul who is bent on being sinful, all the scriptures in the world will just make this person feel empowered to go and be sinful. He will use his ilmu to do more harm.

Being righteous is not just praying and meditating all day/nite in the Mosque. Is ur behaviour attitude and kindness towards fellow human beings, animals, environment etc etc. U see....when Muslims commit sins like those vices..is between fellow muslims and Allah come judgement. He have to seek forgiveness from Allah. But when Muslims sin against another fellow human, Allah will not interfere. That particular Muslim have to seek forgiveness from the person whom he had sin thru lies, fitnah or physical injuries. Ku minta maaf zahir dan batin.....

see we don't disagree at all. reading and ilmu all not important to me. How much knowledge do I have? Nowhere near most people here. some people in this forum have tested my smarts. I always fail their tests. only people and the history of what happened inform me. I am really quite book stupid. u see this thread? I am probably least knowledgeable ilmu of anyone here. For me to understand something, I must live with it first before I understand. All my writings not from ilmu. but from my experiences with people which I'm lucky to have had. Once I meet them and talk to them and see how they live, then I can start understanding. Before that kosong!

Knowledge can be a two edge sword. Some people very knowledgeable so much so that they think they are perfect. Some very knowledgeable so much so they abused it. So Ahmad may be just a simple person....not so intelligent...but in the eye of Allah hes a perfect Muslim. Hope u get what i mean.

This I have no experience with and until I experience it I will treat it as an interesting story. Sometimes I found it good to be stupid at learning through books.

Anyway, thank you for talking. it is interesting.

Do u ever wonder how come some fortune teller can tell u about the present and past? The fortune teller have a Jinn with him. U also have a Jinn in u. So obviously ur Jinn know about ur past history. So they communicate with each other. Just briefly explain to u. Theres more to it lah....

No problem. Any time we can discuss.

 

[whoami]

Read another thread, he reading a book on Japanese life.

How come not shanghainese life?