Will NEWATER and Desalination Bankrupt S'pore?

[numero uno]

Very simplistic thinking - fortunately we have voted in sufficient men-in-white to think the future for you.

How much would you pay for national security and for a peace of mind for you, your family and your children?

Mahathir has always publicly threatened to cut our water supply - they and the UMNOs boys have always been shouting "potong, potong!" Mahathir didn't want 100 times more ringgits, he wanted 1000 times more - we know that was simply an excuse, a poker bluff. LKY can see through him. Lesser leaders (as seen in recent Ge or PE elections) would have fallen for the trick.

Future not-so-friendly Prime Ministers or Agungs will not be any different. Although we know that they are simply prancing or shadow-dancing, it doesn't do us good, or anybody who is considering investing long term billions of dollars such as our integrated resorts or hi-tech wafer fabrication, pharmaceutical factories.

We have stated in no uncertain terms that should Malaysia renegade on the water agreement, we are ready to send in our precious NS boys over to pay them a visit. The cost is unimaginable. Now we are saying "terima kasih kawan/abang, we have enough water. We are presenting our water facilities to you in tip-top conditions. We know your weapons are now good for firing blanks." Even the agreement with the Indons to supply us with water is put on cold storage - because the Indons will simply copycat Mahathir, just as they did with the sudden cut in sand and granite. We still get sand, we still get granite and we still get water. Isn't this a great feat of a great leader?

Some ignorant Sporeans are unaware we are exporting good clean water. The thousands of planes at Changi and ships at our ports are loading our desalinated and Newater onto their vessels. The thousands of hotel guests are drinking water straight from the taps if they choose to. They are paying much more than we residents pay. You pay the CEOs millions of dollars so that they can make more millions for you. You pay CEO thousands of dollars, they will make a few more thousands for you. And of course if you pay peanuts, you only get monkeys to work for you.

If we consider water as not only an economic but a vital strategic resource, then it is worthwhile to be self-sufficient. If we can be self-sufficient in sand, the Indons will be having nightmares. Why don't the Indons and M'sians threaten us with cutting of their supplies of vegetable and fruits and eggs - obvious to them we have many other alternative sources - from as far away as Europe or USA.

PM Lee, Emeritus SM Goh and Paramount Leader LKY have always said - think of the big picture, think long term. We must build confidence in our future. While we listen to the dull and the ignorant (aka Desiderata), it is wise to listen to the three wise-men.

This is pure bullsh!t and propaganda by the shitty times. get your facts correct before bullsh!tting here. when BBC interview mahathir and ask him about the supposed threat to cut off water supply he denies it ever happen and said sarcastically he is not that cruel(implying as even a doctor he finds it harsh and inhumane) and does not know who gives them that idea. In fact he also said openly that the supposedly LKY threat to invade Johor shoudl the water supply be cut off is a figment of the shitty times. He bluntly said there was NO threat of invasion in their talks as supposedly issued by the old man and should there be any mention of such threat he would have walk out of the talk immediatley with the old man(implying he is not to be threatened at all or cowed which is true given his character). LKY knows he is his equal and cannot be threaten. so all this crap about the threat to invade is conjured up by some SAF shitheads to give themselves some bullshit credubility or false mojo. I have worked in SAF and I know these bullshitters style. talk big only.
if you think about it logically why should Mahathir lie when all along he does not mince his words about LKY and in fact has openly challenged the singapore garmen to sue him in his biography and has openly challenged him on other issues.
All this threats of cutting off water etc is a ploy. nothing more but a ploy by the MSM and SAF to give a "siege mentality" amongst sninkies and so give undue importance to their roles , safe guard their own rice bowls(saf are full of dead wood jiak liao bee generals) and for local votes. somebody has to be the bad guy or phantom and SAF has to make themselves the "saviour prince" in this wayang. costs and health is secondary to their own vested interests. in fact johor sell water to malacca(own country) for $8 compared to 3 cts (to snigapore) and mahathir just wanted a price revision. he even said China sell water the equivalent of $12 per 1000 gallons to HK (own country) and when he ask for a price of $3 per 1000 gallons it was rejected so much he blew his top and mention about us being unreasonable.
newater is a joke and a health hazard. nothing beats natural water or rain water. in life natural is the best. even newater has prions and thousands of otehr chemocals taht cannot be filter or sterilsed. google prions and you know why nobody can sterilised mad cow disease urine or meat so stop bullshitting that newater is safe to drink. BTW when newater was first intriduced in singapore they call in a PUB engineer(not a doctor) to the press briefing to certify that it is safe to drink!!!!!what a joke. should you get mad cow disease or other sickness, they would also call in an engineer to treat you.
farnly speaking najib can't even handle lim kit siang and anwar, what makes you think he is bother about us?

 

[frenchbriefs]

sometimes i think PAP has to be some sort of religion or cult,when i read the things that they write and the way their mind thinks,u have to be retarded.

 

[kukubird58]

1) Bring up the boogie man of Malaysia threatening to cut water supplies "constantly"

hahaha...really thick skinned retarded vulgar empty vessel....
pple want to cut off your supply must constantly warn u first???
this is typical of pple who tries to dig out out shit holes......
he thinks alternative supplies will just simply cum on by waving a magic wand when we need it....
he act blur pretend to forget that he wrote.....when malaysia cuts off water supply, singapore capitulates...

Originally Posted by Papsmearer View Post
Singapore is indefensible, we have no strategic depth and buying all the equipment from the US means nothing.If the muslim country of Malaysia decided that it did not like a large US naval presence so near its borders, and decided to cut the water supply, all the weapons in the world will not save SIngapore.

 

[frenchbriefs]

hahaha...really thick skinned retarded vulgar empty vessel....
pple want to cut off your supply must constantly warn u first???
this is typical of pple who tries to dig out out shit holes......
he thinks alternative supplies will just simply cum on by waving a magic wand when we need it....
he act blur pretend to forget that he wrote.....when malaysia cuts off water supply, singapore capitulates...

actually water is not the only tie we share with msia,msia is our biggest trading partner,not china or US.....30% of our exports goes to msia.....if msia decides one day to declare war on us and cut off all ties,our economy will be finished...singapore would be like a airbus 330 with one of the engines gone.

hence we can conclude that water is just a boogie man used by PAP as scare tactics,because if Msia were to be serious in attacking singapore,water would be the last thing that kills singapore.

 

[AttilaTheHun]

Sinkie losers deserves to drink shit water.

 

[revealer]

The TS is very clear about what was his stand when he wrote, "why spent money to build more newater and desalination plants when we can pay 100 times more at RM$3/= per thousand gallon and this will still be much more cheaper than Newater or desalination." May be many here did not agree with what he had written and therefore the arguments.

Economically speaking, what TS said made sense. It has created some reverberation attracting some to echo behind him. However, strategically speaking, any strategist will never agree to request for renewal of water agreement if there are regular threats of supply cut off from and also water rationing occasionally occurring all over Malaysia, including the Johore State.

We can argue until kingdom come and end the argument with one bad mouthing the other, it will not draw a good conclusion with results that will vibrate beyond this thread. It is not because this is not an important subject matter but because the decision rest on other factors that we may not have all the answers.

May be a more meaningful and yet quite similar topic that we could take reference is why there is no newater and desalination plants in Hong Kong? Why Hong Kong did not have an army of its own to protect its people? If we can have the answers to these questions, may be we can find some alignments in our arguments here. If we were to argue that Hong Kong is not country but a special administrative region of the People's Republic of China, and formerly a British crown colony, then shall Singapore follow suit?

 

[greedy and cunning]

sillypoore is making rain water , old water and new water because the emperor and it's court
got a false elite mentality. everything must be lumpar one. over the decades they ever developed
an extreme arrogance and snobbishness. plus the fact that it is beri beri rich , money not problem type.
just to spite Mad-hattier , the emperor said sillypooreans can drink bestest cleanest purest water in the water.
of course reason given is not to be held ransom by the Madhattier.
even they wanted to re-talk again , Mad Hattier also don't want to sell.

but how are rain water , old water , new water being made ? out of thin air in the kitchen ?
it need electricity (that needs oil , gas) , filters , plants (that is made of different components which
required spare parts and maintenance)
where to do these come from ? sillypoore has to buy from other countries.
so filters , etc etc also depend on other countries what.
it is like jumping out of the fire into the frying pan.

then sillypoore thought it sure can get h2o from indo island.
it laid the pipelines and built the infra at the indo island.
before the first drop of water reached sillypoore ,
the wild inhabitants of the island damaged the infra.
so sillypoore still depends on rain water , old water and new water.
but i anyhow said one, don't take it seriously lah.

 

[Papsmearer]

This is pure bullsh!t and propaganda by the shitty times. get your facts correct before bullsh!tting here. when BBC interview mahathir and ask him about the supposed threat to cut off water supply he denies it ever happen and said sarcastically he is not that cruel(implying as even a doctor he finds it harsh and inhumane) and does not know who gives them that idea. In fact he also said openly that the supposedly LKY threat to invade Johor shoudl the water supply be cut off is a figment of the shitty times. He bluntly said there was NO threat of invasion in their talks as supposedly issued by the old man and should there be any mention of such threat he would have walk out of the talk immediatley with the old man(implying he is not to be threatened at all or cowed which is true given his character). LKY knows he is his equal and cannot be threaten. so all this crap about the threat to invade is conjured up by some SAF shitheads to give themselves some bullshit credubility or false mojo. I have worked in SAF and I know these bullshitters style. talk big only.
if you think about it logically why should Mahathir lie when all along he does not mince his words about LKY and in fact has openly challenged the singapore garmen to sue him in his biography and has openly challenged him on other issues.
All this threats of cutting off water etc is a ploy. nothing more but a ploy by the MSM and SAF to give a "siege mentality" amongst sninkies and so give undue importance to their roles , safe guard their own rice bowls(saf are full of dead wood jiak liao bee generals) and for local votes. somebody has to be the bad guy or phantom and SAF has to make themselves the "saviour prince" in this wayang. costs and health is secondary to their own vested interests. in fact johor sell water to malacca(own country) for $8 compared to 3 cts (to snigapore) and mahathir just wanted a price revision. he even said China sell water the equivalent of $12 per 1000 gallons to HK (own country) and when he ask for a price of $3 per 1000 gallons it was rejected so much he blew his top and mention about us being unreasonable.
newater is a joke and a health hazard. nothing beats natural water or rain water. in life natural is the best. even newater has prions and thousands of otehr chemocals taht cannot be filter or sterilsed. google prions and you know why nobody can sterilised mad cow disease urine or meat so stop bullshitting that newater is safe to drink. BTW when newater was first intriduced in singapore they call in a PUB engineer(not a doctor) to the press briefing to certify that it is safe to drink!!!!!what a joke. should you get mad cow disease or other sickness, they would also call in an engineer to treat you.
farnly speaking najib can't even handle lim kit siang and anwar, what makes you think he is bother about us?

You are exactly right. I believe all those numbers you provided. It basically came down to pride and a pissing match between Lee Con You and Mahathir. If Mahathir had offered RM$3 per 1000 gallons, i would taken it and run out of town before he changed his mind. No one dares to defy the Old Goat. If he had decent advisors, they would have told him to take the deal, its way cheaper. this thread was started by me 4 years ago, and at that time, the best estimate I could come up with was a production cost of RM$7 per 1000 gallons from Desalination and Newater. Now, 4 years later with a marked increase in energy costs, I would roughly guess maybe RM$10 per 1000 gallons now. Imagine too, when Mahathir offered RM$3 per 1000 gallons, the exchange rate was not as good as today. The sing $ is so strong now, it should have been the equivalent of only RM$2.50 by now.

 

[Papsmearer]

actually water is not the only tie we share with msia,msia is our biggest trading partner,not china or US.....30% of our exports goes to msia.....if msia decides one day to declare war on us and cut off all ties,our economy will be finished...singapore would be like a airbus 330 with one of the engines gone.

hence we can conclude that water is just a boogie man used by PAP as scare tactics,because if Msia were to be serious in attacking singapore,water would be the last thing that kills singapore.

u are right. even If malaysia gives us all the water we need for FREE, but close the border between the 2 of us, we are dead within 1 week. All the food that we buy from them cannot come in, all the missing hundreds of thousands of malaysian workers that will not report to work, will bring the economy to a standstill, the stock market will collapse, etc. At least even without malaysian water, we should last another 1 month with water rationing and what we have in the reservoirs.

 

[Papsmearer]

The TS is very clear about what was his stand when he wrote, "why spent money to build more newater and desalination plants when we can pay 100 times more at RM$3/= per thousand gallon and this will still be much more cheaper than Newater or desalination." May be many here did not agree with what he had written and therefore the arguments.

Economically speaking, what TS said made sense. It has created some reverberation attracting some to echo behind him. However, strategically speaking, any strategist will never agree to request for renewal of water agreement if there are regular threats of supply cut off from and also water rationing occasionally occurring all over Malaysia, including the Johore State.

We can argue until kingdom come and end the argument with one bad mouthing the other, it will not draw a good conclusion with results that will vibrate beyond this thread. It is not because this is not an important subject matter but because the decision rest on other factors that we may not have all the answers.

May be a more meaningful and yet quite similar topic that we could take reference is why there is no newater and desalination plants in Hong Kong? Why Hong Kong did not have an army of its own to protect its people? If we can have the answers to these questions, may be we can find some alignments in our arguments here. If we were to argue that Hong Kong is not country but a special administrative region of the People's Republic of China, and formerly a British crown colony, then shall Singapore follow suit?

You are twisting and turning worse than a fucking PAP MP. First u say that membrane technology is making the production of water cheaper. Than now you say that economically water from Malaysia makes sense. Again, you bring up the fear mongering of "regular threats of supply cut off" of water. But in today's day and age of information technology, I have not seen you cut and paste many articles or links indicating a regular and sustained threatening tone from a prominent Malaysian threatening to cut our water supply. I am not talking about your uncle's friend in malaysia want to cut off the water supply. I am talking about a malaysian govt. official or politician who actually has the power to cut off the water, saying that they will do so if Singapore does not do this or that for them. if you cannot find such quotes, shut the fuck up and refrain from using your sad shit excuse of "threats".

There is no argument here. the argument is only in your pathetic mind. I have simply put forth the cost of water production including capital and energy cost versus simply taking the malaysian offer to renew the water contract at RM$3 per 1000 gallons. Why did Lee Con You not do this? Why did the PAP get us into this situation now? How about you go back to your PAP handlers and try and figure out a logical and cogent answer to my questions?

 

[Papsmearer]

Maybe somebody saw an opportunity in building these newater and desalination plants. Who cares what will happen the rest. Once these plants are up and running, the guys who approved the plants will managing a ranch in australia.

They don't care how many of these plants they build. And they don't care how much it cost to produce the water. All they do is just take their costs and mark it up with their profit margin, and than sell the water to sinkies. Sinkies bear the costs of it in the end, and because its a monopoly, they lan lan got no choice but to buy it at that cost. At the end of the day, some contractor made money building the plant, some suppliers of membrane filters and decontamination chemicals made money, and the plant operators made money, and the only one stuck with the bill is the sinkie. this is how the PAP works. Invent many new layers of bureaucracy and costs so as to benefit their own cronies and porlumpars, where the easiest and simplest solution was to re-negotiate the water contract in good faith and take the new price. Of course if they did that, than how can they make money from all the new plant constructions, and associated costs with running these plants?

 

[Papsmearer]

while we are on the topic of water, well guess what? Some smart ass scholar finally figured out that we might have a source of ground water in Singapore, and that there is such an underground rock formation in Jurong that hold water, and they are called aquifers. No sheet, SHerlock? Many of the older sinkies here would remember drawing water from a well in the kampong, so there must have been an underground water supply since a long time in singapore. I guess it did not occur to the PAP scholars that maybe they should check this out first, rather than building billions $ worth of desalination and Newater plants. Of course, now that the plants are build or are in the building stage, they decide to pursue the option of groundwater. world number 1 bestest politicians? I think not.



ORANGE COUNTY, California - Singapore has ramped up efforts to study whether and how the country's underground water can be extracted for use.

National water agency PUB has formed a team of international experts to advise it, and will dig its first exploratory monitoring wells in the next few months.

It is interested in the subterranean Jurong rock formation in western Singapore, which could hold water-bearing layers of rock called aquifers.

Even if Singapore is unable to extract substantial water from them regularly, such aquifers could act as "water banks" for drought periods, said PUB chief technology officer Harry Seah.

While there is no timeline for when this water could contribute to Singapore's supply, the exploratory efforts will help to prepare the country, he said.

"We are building up our expertise in the field... and if groundwater does become feasible, we will have a ready team to manage the groundwater resource."

The PUB plans to install 20 to 30 monitoring wells in western Singapore and monitor the flow of water through them for six to 12 months. These wells will be about 5cm wide and 10m to 20m deep. Their locations are being worked out, but likely options include green verges alongside roads and other public areas.

Among other things, they will help find out where rainwater goes after it seeps into the ground.

"For example, we want to know how much of it goes vertically down into aquifers, and how much horizontal movement there is instead," said Mr Seah.

This information will be useful when Singapore looks into how much water is available, how much of it can be safely extracted, and how fast it can be extracted such that rainfall can naturally replace the removed water.

To speed up the learning process, PUB has asked six experts around the world for help. They include: Lord Ronald Oxburgh, a noted geologist and geophysicist; Professor Ken Howard, president of the International Association of Hydrogeologists and an expert in urban groundwater management; and Mr Roy Herndon, chief hydrogeologist at the Orange County Water District in California, which has been extracting groundwater for decades.

Although he played down suggestions by reporters that underground water could be Singapore's fifth tap - after imports from Malaysia, recycled used water and treated seawater and rainwater - Mr Seah added that there is always urgency for the PUB to explore new ideas.

The PUB studied underground water in eastern Singapore in the 1990s, but the data from the technology used then did not give the agency "adequate confidence" that extracting the water would be sustainable or safe.

"As Singapore progresses, the water demand will keep growing. If we continue with business as usual, the energy needed will grow much faster as we ramp up desalination and Newater to meet demand. It's not sustainable," said Mr Seah.

While the PUB has embarked on research to reduce the energy needed for water treatment, "groundwater is freshwater", he added. "If we have abundant rainwater, we can inject some into the ground, increase our storage... extract the water to meet our demand and give us more buffer for drought."

 

[mojito]

So many people in thos thread are missing the point totally. It is not about strategy, what is better for the country, or health, which is better or even which is more cost effective. It is about spending money, and the more money is spent, the more money is made!