Why can’t Singapore just follow the American wage model?

[pillowtalk]

1 minute with: Dr. Steven Peng

Dr. Steven Peng, 43, is an economist. He does not wish to name the agency he works for.

Progressive Wage, minimum wage – so many wage models being discussed following the implementation of the Progressive Wage Model in Singapore by the NTUC.

We asked quizzed Dr. Peng over a quick lunch on his thoughts about wage models in the US and here.

FS: In your perspective, which wage system works best?
SP: There is no perfect wage system. I always see the world as, on one hand, we have minimum wage systems. On the other extreme, you have Collective Agreements (CA, legal agreements negotiated with management by unions).
CAs are definitely the best one can aim for, for it takes care of not just wages, but benefits as well. Singapore’s Progressive Wage lies somewhere in between these, as is the Australian system of industrial awards.

FS: How does a country like the United States raise minimum wage?
SP: The US system is definitely much more different than ours. Obama is thinking of pressing alone on this rather than seeking support from Congress which has 2 houses: the House of Representatives and the Senate. To pass a law, it has to pass through the 2 houses as well as the president’s office. With different parties “owning” the infrastructure now, this is not seen to be easy. They also do not have a structure with historic standing like the National Wages Council.

FS: Why can’t Singapore just follow the American wage model?
SP: This is a bit more nebulous. The economy composition is definitely different and it is very difficult to map the world’s largest economy with one of the world’s most open. The similarity is probably in terms of the financial market infrastructure, but this alone is meaningless to compare as the US also has strong agricultural and industrial production capabilities.

FS: So what works for them, may not work for us?
SP: I think the most important point from this article is that every country’s political, economic and social situations are different, and that purely asking for a transplant of a wage system from country A to country B is hazardous and illogical. Such issues are more like literature than maths. In maths, even for things that are infinite, we can agree on, eg. the value of Pi is universally taken to be 3.14 even though we cannot pin its actual value. But in literature, a phrase as simple as “If music be the food of love, play on” can be interpreted to mean different things to different people and yet all of the interpretations can be correct.

 

[Leongsam]

It doesn't make a scrap of difference how wages are calculated or structured.

As long as you're earning a wage, you're not going to end up wealthy unless you're a CEO or a govt Minister.

Forget about wages. Go forth into the world and create some wealth for yourself. You'll be thankful you did.

 

[pillowtalk]

It doesn't make a scrap of difference how wages are calculated or structured.

As long as you're earning a wage, you're not going to end up wealthy unless you're a CEO or a govt Minister.

Forget about wages. Go forth into the world and create some wealth for yourself. You'll be thankful you did.

What about low wage workers?

 

[Leongsam]

What about low wage workers?

What about them? They'll exist regardless of the wage structure.

If a minimum wage of $2000 pm is imposed in Singapore tomorrow, the resulting inflation will simply set a new benchmark of what is considered to be a low wage.

 

[garlic]

Sinkieland can start by paying weekly wage instead of monthly wage. That will indeed be a big step forward already.

 

[Leongsam]

Sinkieland can start by paying weekly wage instead of monthly wage. That will indeed be a big step forward already.

Why stop at weekly.... pay a daily wage instead.

 

[topspin]

They abolished the weekly wage structure a long time ago. This type of payments resulted in workers being paid 52 times per year. With the monthly wage structure you are paid less than that so thats probably how the 13th month payment came about, although I cant say for sure.

Sinkieland can start by paying weekly wage instead of monthly wage. That will indeed be a big step forward already.

 

[bic_cherry]

1 minute with: Dr. Steven Peng

Dr. Steven Peng, 43, is an economist. He does not wish to name the agency he works for.
Progressive Wage, minimum wage – so many wage models being discussed following the implementation of the Progressive Wage Model in Singapore by the NTUC.
We asked quizzed Dr. Peng over a quick lunch on his thoughts about wage models in the US and here.
FS: In your perspective, which wage system works best?
SP: There is no perfect wage system. I always see the world as, on one hand, we have minimum wage systems. On the other extreme, you have Collective Agreements (CA, legal agreements negotiated with management by unions).
CAs are definitely the best one can aim for, for it takes care of not just wages, but benefits as well. Singapore’s Progressive Wage lies somewhere in between these, as is the Australian system of industrial awards.
FS: How does a country like the United States raise minimum wage?
SP: The US system is definitely much more different than ours. Obama is thinking of pressing alone on this rather than seeking support from Congress which has 2 houses: the House of Representatives and the Senate. To pass a law, it has to pass through the 2 houses as well as the president’s office. With different parties “owning” the infrastructure now, this is not seen to be easy. They also do not have a structure with historic standing like the National Wages Council.
FS: Why can’t Singapore just follow the American wage model?
SP: This is a bit more nebulous. The economy composition is definitely different and it is very difficult to map the world’s largest economy with one of the world’s most open. The similarity is probably in terms of the financial market infrastructure, but this alone is meaningless to compare as the US also has strong agricultural and industrial production capabilities.
FS: So what works for them, may not work for us?
SP: I think the most important point from this article is that every country’s political, economic and social situations are different, and that purely asking for a transplant of a wage system from country A to country B is hazardous and illogical. Such issues are more like literature than maths. In maths, even for things that are infinite, we can agree on, eg. the value of Pi is universally taken to be 3.14 even though we cannot pin its actual value. But in literature, a phrase as simple as “If music be the food of love, play on” can be interpreted to mean different things to different people and yet all of the interpretations can be correct.

Actually, there is no better way to help the poor than with up-skilling: $skills, home economy skills, customer satisfaction skills, professional/ technical (medical/ legal/ nursing/ plumbing ) skills etc etc.

Minimum wage, progressive wage etc are just band aid schemes which signify a system breakdown like the SMRT bus bridging scheme- it costs money to provide, inconvenient and will ultimately affect BOTH the commuter's lifestyle and the SMRT bottom line- it is better than nothing but at least keeps the commuters at least partially satisfied (free rides- but delays/ need to walk on tracks etc).

Minimum wage is thus no permanent solution to poverty. But in the light of critical income disparities, it is probably the next best thing to just giving out free $$$.

 

[GOD IS MY DOG]

It doesn't make a scrap of difference how wages are calculated or structured.

As long as you're earning a wage, you're not going to end up wealthy unless you're a CEO or a govt Minister.

Forget about wages. Go forth into the world and create some wealth for yourself. You'll be thankful you did.

so can i get wealthy if i also start a mickey mouse forum like this one ?

 

[eErotica69]

Why stop at weekly.... pay a daily wage instead.

Why stop at daily? Might as well pay hourly wage instead?

 

[chootchiew]

Why stop at daily? Might as well pay hourly wage instead?

Best is paid every sec, like that literally the working hrs the payroll is paying to your hand milli cents, then we don't need to work liao, just keep collecting money till knockoff.

 

[garlic]

Getting paid weekly will get all workers an additional 1 month's wages. Currently, the AWS is not compulsory and employers can decide not to pay. Change to weekly structure and SG workers are automatically better off. But i guess, this wont happen in this lifetime... sad...

 

[winnipegjets]

We need more business to be like Costco. Costco puts employees before profits. Unlike most retailers, Costco does not see raising employee salaries and growing profits as competing goals. While the average hourly wage for a full-time worker at Wal-Mart is $12.81, Costco pays its workers an average of nearly $21. Costco sees the return on this investment in its low employee turnover rates. High employee retention allows the wholesaler to cut down considerably on training costs. Costco's founders set out to pay "a good living wage," says CFO Richard Galanti. "We are never going to mess with that."

Costco's strategy is to make sure its customers come back. While the average discount supercenter stocks about 100,000 items at a 25% margin, Costco sells just 4,000 items at an 11% margin. Although its retailer carries less selection, its merchandisers are meticulous about their choices and set detailed standards on everything from the size of cashews to the thread count of bedsheets. That unbeatable value proposition on quality products has inspired roughly 90% of Costco's 72.5 million cardholders worldwide to renew their $55 to $110 membership each year.

 

[Leongsam]

so can i get wealthy if i also start a mickey mouse forum like this one ?

No you won't be wealthy if you start just one mickey mouse forum but if you start one mickey mouse forum and use the knowledge you gain to start a whole lot of other not so mickey mouse forums, you can achieve financial independence.

However, in my opinion, the era of internet forums of this sort is over. It's time to move on to apps for mobile devices.

 

[GoldenPeriod]

No you won't be wealthy if you start just one mickey mouse forum but if you start one mickey mouse forum and use the knowledge you gain to start a whole lot of other not so mickey mouse forums, you can achieve financial independence.

However, in my opinion, the era of internet forums of this sort is over. It's time to move on to apps for mobile devices.

Not so easy lah. How many people here have the skills to program those apps?

 

[Leongsam]

Not so easy lah. How many people here have the skills to program those apps?

You don't need programming skills. All you need is a concept. You can get someone else to do the programming for you.

There are also many utilities that can generate code on your behalf.

When I did my first iPhone app, I used a program very similar to http://appmakr.com/

When it comes to writing code for this forum, I subcontract most of it to vB experts too. I do the basic stuff but because my coding is crap and full of security holes, I just come up with the basic concept, code it to the best of my ability and then hand it over to my programmer to create a working plug in.

 

[Papsmearer]

This Dr. Peng is an economist in what? Stupidity? He should know that in SIngapore, there is only one wage structure. LOW. And how to get LOWER WAGES. The economy is dominated by GLCs who have to perform and make lots of profit to return to their owners like MOF, Temasek, etc. As a result, they are only interested in hiring the lowest possible paid worker they can find to do the job. All this talk of minimum wage, other country's wage structure, etc. is just smoke screen. WHy else is the govt. allowing in millions of FT if not to depress the local wages? These foreign workers work for half or one third of the what a local works for. Lousy excuses like FTs are only doing jobs that locals don't want hold no water. There are many PMET, mid-level, high level white collar jobs going to FTs. These jobs easily pay $3000-$10000 ++ a month, you telling me no singaporeans want it? They let in an FT, and these jobs are now suddenly worth $1800 a month. What an idiot. simi lan wage structure is he yakking about?

 

[frenchbriefs]

What about them? They'll exist regardless of the wage structure.

If a minimum wage of $2000 pm is imposed in Singapore tomorrow, the resulting inflation will simply set a new benchmark of what is considered to be a low wage.

u think so?australia's minimum wage is $2560 pm....assuming a 40 hour work week.they dont seems to be covered in the stench of poverty unlike the cleaners,bus drivers,fnb workers and other low wage workers here.i can assure u aussies live very comfortably,dress well and eat well and party alot.

 

[frenchbriefs]

This Dr. Peng is an economist in what? Stupidity? He should know that in SIngapore, there is only one wage structure. LOW. And how to get LOWER WAGES. The economy is dominated by GLCs who have to perform and make lots of profit to return to their owners like MOF, Temasek, etc. As a result, they are only interested in hiring the lowest possible paid worker they can find to do the job. All this talk of minimum wage, other country's wage structure, etc. is just smoke screen. WHy else is the govt. allowing in millions of FT if not to depress the local wages? These foreign workers work for half or one third of the what a local works for. Lousy excuses like FTs are only doing jobs that locals don't want hold no water. There are many PMET, mid-level, high level white collar jobs going to FTs. These jobs easily pay $3000-$10000 ++ a month, you telling me no singaporeans want it? They let in an FT, and these jobs are now suddenly worth $1800 a month. What an idiot. simi lan wage structure is he yakking about.

u da man!!!!!da man i say!!!!

 

[Leongsam]

u think so?australia's minimum wage is $2560 pm....assuming a 40 hour work week.they dont seems to be covered in the stench of poverty unlike the cleaners,bus drivers,fnb workers and other low wage workers here.i can assure u aussies live very comfortably,dress well and eat well and party alot.

Yeah a fantastic minimum wage and look at the result..