Who should we believe? 87 year-old MM Lee or 51 year-old Law Minister Shanmugam?

[kojakbt]

Who to believe? MM or Shanmugam?

Who should we believe? The 87 year-old MM Lee or the 51 year-old Law Minister Shanmugam?

MM Lee: "...property prices have gone up because foreigners with permanent residence are buying into the market."

Law Minister Shanmugam said that foreigners are not responsible for driving up HDB prices: "You say maybe foreigners are paying these high valuations. I think if you check, you’ll find that the majority are Singaporeans."

 

[radon39]

seems like left hand dunno wat right hand doing

 

[halsey02]

seems like left hand dunno wat right hand doing

Which is a bigger god? Shame Mulligan, will have to atone for his sins, before the bigger god..who feeds him!:p

 

[hoho99]

Aiyah, to MM anyone not born in Sin are foreigners. The other guy thinks anyone who pay taxes are sillyporeans lor.

 

[saratogas]

Trust MM lah, Ah neh cannot be trusted. Looks like this guy is not of the same gang of the familee, same information is not for him but close group only.

 

[hitower]

Simple Answer:

MM too old to think straight, today this answer and tomorrow another answer
Minister Shanmugam is not handling HDB and futhermore both party answer contradict each other.

Equal = Both also cannot be trust.

VOTE OUT PAP!!! The END of PAP is Coming!!!

 

[Papsmearer]

Who to believe? MM or Shanmugam?

Who should we believe? The 87 year-old MM Lee or the 51 year-old Law Minister Shanmugam?

MM Lee: "...property prices have gone up because foreigners with permanent residence are buying into the market."

Law Minister Shanmugam said that foreigners are not responsible for driving up HDB prices: "You say maybe foreigners are paying these high valuations. I think if you check, you’ll find that the majority are Singaporeans."

I don't even know why SHag your mama open his mouth to comment on an area that does not concern him. Why, he trying to justify his pay?

 

[phouse3]

It's the influx of foreigners that has been driving up HDB prices - PRs buying HDB flats and foreign workers demanding rental properties.

Here's the proof:

- despite the "worst recession in 50 years", HDB prices soared, defying gravity, commonsense and economics (Q.E.D.)

CPF, HDB and FT policies are related.

For most Singaporeans, our CPF money is either invested in a property or left idle with the CPF Board. GIC invests the idle portion on our behalf. The returns from the first portion is sterling. It is the returns from the second portion that is miserable.

Many first generation Singaporeans easily made 1000% returns on their HDB flats and the money is being used to fund their social security needs. The second generation assumed the higher housing costs, including those who bought "subsidised" new flats from the HDB direct. Prices of old and new flats are obviously correlated.

If HDB flat prices stagnate whilst GIC's performance continues to be poor, social security for the second generation will be a big problem against rising costs of living and healthcare. The third generation must assume the burden unless GIC buck up.

The GIC knows its performance is quite shameful versus investment returns from HDB flats. When the internet bubble burst in year 2000, GIC's portfolio plunged. As a rough proxy, Temasek lost 40%. So the PAP implemented the first round of withholding our CPF money. Then came Iraq War, SARS, etc. The PAP implemented the second round of withholding our CPF money. The recent financial crisis only hardened its resolve. GIC used our money to punt on riskier assets hoping to generate higher returns.

By right, we should be relying less on investment returns from owner-occupied properties and more from GIC's investments overseas. Our world is upside down now due to the poor performance of the GIC. Higher owner-occupied property prices are of no benefit unless we are able to monetise the flats through sale or downgrading. So it is the downgrading of living standard that is providing the means for retirement needs.

 

[Papsmearer]

It's the influx of foreigners that has been driving up HDB prices - PRs buying HDB flats and foreign workers demanding rental properties.

Here's the proof:

- despite the "worst recession in 50 years", HDB prices soared, defying gravity, commonsense and economics (Q.E.D.)

CPF, HDB and FT policies are related.

.

U see, its idiots like u that just go around regurgitating what u hear. U got brain, than use it. Dun come here and talk about common sense and PRs driving HDB prices up. Look at some facts first.

The singapore property market is not a true market driven system. It cannot be when one entity owns and controls 80% of the market. This entity can easily set and fix the price. The HDB flat price increase is due to the fact the HDB deliberately slow down construction of new flats in a time of rising population. for example, in the 90s, it was not unusual for the HDB to build 30,000 units a year. In 2008, they build 2700. In the last 5 years, they have averaged much less than 10,000 units a year. I guarantee u if they kept to their 30,000 per year pace, there is no high prices today. Even if there were no PRs or FTs in singapore, this small number of flats is not even enough to keep up demand from native born sinkies. The prices would have risen anyway. Why do that? The HDB does this because they know that by deliberately keeping a small supply in a period of rising demand, they can charge more and make more profit. Ask yourself how many PRs actually have the means and desire and qualification to buy? If they are here working for $1200 a month, they can afford to buy shit. If they making $12,000 a month, they will buy private condo, not HDB flat. Yes, some do buy, but what is the number, and does it actually affect the market. As for FTs demanding rental units. Firstly, many FTs are house in company dorms or situations similar to dorms. Like the recent case of the IR workers housed in old blocks, or new dorms are build for them, like in Serangoon Gardens. And if they rent, they will squeeze 8-12 people into a flat and save money that way.

U don't believe any of this, u can check it out yourself. Just go and ask HDB how many PRs buy flats, that will answer everything for you. HDB will not release that number to u, even if u ask them. The reason is this number is very small, maybe a few thousands only. HDB would rather suckers like u blame the FTs/PRs than blame the real culprit, which is them.

 

[Ramseth]

Who to believe? MM or Shanmugam?

Who should we believe? The 87 year-old MM Lee or the 51 year-old Law Minister Shanmugam?

MM Lee: "...property prices have gone up because foreigners with permanent residence are buying into the market."

Law Minister Shanmugam said that foreigners are not responsible for driving up HDB prices: "You say maybe foreigners are paying these high valuations. I think if you check, you’ll find that the majority are Singaporeans."

These two seemingly contradicting statements can be reconciled if you apply the auction bidding theory. The PRs drive up the price, but the locals pay the higher price. See? For example, for sellers who want to sell at $10k COV, more buyers (bidders, including PRs) come along and now the seller can afford to ask $20k COV. PRs don't buy and drop out of bidding. Locals buy and pay. PRs go and rent. PRs can afford to rent. Locals rent from who? HDB flat owners (lessees) are sceptical of local renters unless well familiar to them. Why would a local man or family want to rent? Runaway from loanshark is it? Rent from HDB? Please visit the HDB website for terms and conditions. I'd think hardly 5% of the citizenry qualify now, as opposed to easily 95% when HDB began 50 years ago.

 

[crazyhendrix]

Whether FT buying up resale flats in bulk driving up the HDB price, or HDB not supplying enough new flats(probably both)---fault still lies with the incumbent party. I agree that we shouldn't blame the Foreign workers. The fault lies with policies passed without proper thoughts on how it would impact our infrastructures, standard of living, etc.

 

[Ramseth]

There's an inherent flaw in so-called asset enhancement and getting wealthier as your flat's value goes up. Let's say, market resale price is $300k for 4-rm flat. You go and buy from HDB new as first timer at $200k. You sell 5 years later at $300k. Wow, 100k profit, yes? However, you need a place to live; you must buy again, at market price. There goes whatever profit plus moving and renovation costs. If you try to buy again from HDB, no more being first timer, 20% levy, there it goes.

 

[Papsmearer]

Whether FT buying up resale flats in bulk driving up the HDB price, or HDB not supplying enough new flats(probably both)---fault still lies with the incumbent party. I agree that we shouldn't blame the Foreign workers. The fault lies with policies passed without proper thoughts on how it would impact our infrastructures, standard of living, etc.

Yes, agreed.

 

[gostep]

Who to believe? MM or Shanmugam?

Who should we believe? The 87 year-old MM Lee or the 51 year-old Law Minister Shanmugam?

MM Lee: "...property prices have gone up because foreigners with permanent residence are buying into the market."

Law Minister Shanmugam said that foreigners are not responsible for driving up HDB prices: "You say maybe foreigners are paying these high valuations. I think if you check, you’ll find that the majority are Singaporeans."

Politics 101
If you can't convince, confuse.

 

[darthboy]

Both are in the game together and have the same goal. One should not pay attention to what they're saying, rather what they're doing day in day out.

The real problem is GLCs, various government boards and affliated companies milking too much money for their own agenda. Their purpose of giving conflicting statements is to hope you'll waste time on deciphering their words, rather than their actions.

 

[Watchman]

Who to believe? MM or Shanmugam?

Who should we believe? The 87 year-old MM Lee or the 51 year-old Law Minister Shanmugam?

MM Lee: "...property prices have gone up because foreigners with permanent residence are buying into the market."

Law Minister Shanmugam said that foreigners are not responsible for driving up HDB prices: "You say maybe foreigners are paying these high valuations. I think if you check, you’ll find that the majority are Singaporeans."

Can you provide figures for majority and minority?

 

[Watchman]

Whether FT buying up resale flats in bulk driving up the HDB price, or HDB not supplying enough new flats(probably both)---fault still lies with the incumbent party. I agree that we shouldn't blame the Foreign workers. The fault lies with policies passed without proper thoughts on how it would impact our infrastructures, standard of living, etc.

I challenge the ruling party to provide figures for those FTs and PRs who sold their flats at 60% - 160%, profit .

 

[Watchman]

Both are in the game together and have the same goal. One should not pay attention to what they're saying, rather what they're doing day in day out.

The real problem is GLCs, various government boards and affliated companies milking too much money for their own agenda. Their purpose of giving conflicting statements is to hope you'll waste time on deciphering their words, rather than their actions.

Any wrong deed, off they go. No need explanation . And time delay tactics .

3 year term and change a new one . Lest they have power enclaves .

 

[ChaoPappyPoodle]

Don't blame the 66% but BLAME the 33% which is most of you here!

When a football team loses, who gets the blame? The players or the manager?

It could be both lah but truly, reading your posts here for months and even years it saddens me that such a large percentage of posters here are really actually a reflection of the 66%!
Don't blame the 66% BUT instead blame yourselves! If you did better in the last GE then maybe we woulnd't have to do this.

So for the next GE, please do your part, from NOW ONWARDS to educate as many people as possible on the evil that permeates the PAP>

On how difficult it is to trust the PAP when they keep conflicting themselves on major issues affecting us.

The housing price problem here is accute but this is't the first time. When Honkies came here by the planeloads just before 1997, prices of homes shot up and GCT, the cuckold, chose to use upgrading and escalating HDB home prices as a sweetener for voters and it worked largely because many of you in the 33% now believed in the garbage economics that GCT is known for.

Housing prices here are based on floor-pricing, a very important but seldom faced economic situation. IN fact, the PAPies have even managed to include labour into the same situation. Do check on "Floor-pricing" for more information.

Lastly, the 154th seems to have fooled many of you into thinking that most of the FTs are low-waged workers. In fact, a very sizeable portion of FTs are white-collar workers who command high salaries and live in many of our condos in SG and the more expensive HDB estates. But nost Fts live in condos because they are well paid.

These are well paid to do jobs that many Singaporeans can actually render. Go to any condo development and you will easily see that most of the people that live there are FTs!

All these FTs are to enrich property owners and developers and the garment.

It is as simple as that. 60-80% of FTs are not required in SG. You will get even more upset if you only knew the number of FTs that actually receive grants from the various PAP garment instruments and I'm not talking about students but also those that do business here. Even half-fuck FTs with no business experience are given PR and MONEY to start businesses here!!!!!!!!

 

[Watchman]

floor-pricing[/B], a very important but seldom faced economic situation. IN fact, the PAPies have even managed to include labour into the same situation. Do check on "Floor-pricing" for more information.

Lastly, the 154th seems to have fooled many of you into thinking that most of the FTs are low-waged workers. In fact, a very sizeable portion of FTs are white-collar workers who command high salaries and live in many of our condos in SG and the more expensive HDB estates. But nost Fts live in condos because they are well paid.

These are well paid to do jobs that many Singaporeans can actually render. Go to any condo development and you will easily see that most of the people that live there are FTs!

All these FTs are to enrich property owners and developers and the garment.

It is as simple as that. 60-80% of FTs are not required in SG. You will get even more upset if you only knew the number of FTs that actually receive grants from the various PAP garment instruments and I'm not talking about students but also those that do business here. Even half-fuck FTs with no business experience are given PR and MONEY to start businesses here!!!!!!!!

It's a fact , everyone read his post .

The ruling party letting your children compete against
their neighbours children for bread cumbs .
While they invite FTs in the planeloads together
with starter kits and survivor kits .