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Who drafted this treaty should be hanged

winnipegjets

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Malaysia lost its right to review water price after choosing not to do so in 1987: Shanmugam

Below is the transcript of Mr Shanmugam's reply to a parliamentary question by Ms Ellen Lee (Sembawang GRC), who had asked whether the existing water agreement signed between Malaysia and Singapore allows for Malaysia to raise the price of raw water sold to Singapore at any time before its expiry in 2061:

Ms Ellen Lee had asked whether Malaysia had the right to review the price of raw water sold to Singapore. We have stated our position on this issue and also conveyed it officially to the government of Malaysia on several occasions.

As I mentioned in my COS speech yesterday, neither Malaysia nor Singapore can unilaterally change the price of raw water sold to Singapore. Indeed, neither party can unilaterally change any of the terms of the 1962 Water Agreement. This is no ordinary agreement. It was guaranteed by both Governments in the Separation Agreement in 1965, which was registered at with United Nations. Both countries have to honour the Water Agreement and the guarantee in the Separation Agreement. Any breach of the Water Agreement would also be a breach of the Separation Agreement and of international law.

Singapore's position is that Malaysia has lost its right to review the water price. The Water Agreement provided for the review after 25 years. Specifically, there was a right to review the price of water jointly in 1987. However, Malaysia consciously chose not to review the price. It had good reasons for this.

Malaysia benefits greatly from the current pricing arrangement. Johor buys 16 million gallons per day of treated water back from us at 50 sen per 1000 gallons. 50 sen per 1000 gallons is only a fraction of the true cost to Singa*pore of treating the water, which includes building and maintaining the entire infrastructure of the water purification plants.

Malaysian leaders have acknowledged that Malaysia benefits from the current arrangement, and explained that indeed that was why Malaysia made a carefully considered decision not to review the water price in 1987.

Then-Malaysian Prime Minister Dr Mahathir Mohamad said in 2002 that Malaysia did not revise the water pricing when it was due because they thought Singapore would also revise the price of treated water supplied to Malaysia. One can refer to a Bernama report on 11 October 2002.

Then-Johor State Assembly Speaker Zainal Abidin Mohd Zain said that the Johor Government had not made a mistake in not pressing for a review in 1986 and said, "there was no point in doing so because Johor was dependent on Singapore for its treated water supply, and Singapore would have also increased its price of treated water sold to Johor" (New Straits Times, 3 July 2002).

Under the Agreement, after Malaysia decided not to review the water price in 1987, there is no longer any right to review the price of water.

Had Malaysia exercised the right to review the water price in 1987, Singa*pore might then have made different investment decisions to develop the Johor River, for instance the Linggiu Dam project of 1990. In the event, Malaysia chose not to review the water price in 1987, and on that basis Singa*pore then took several actions, which also benefitted Malaysia. This included building the Linggiu Dam at a cost of over S$300 million, which has increased the yield of the Johor River and enabled both Johor and Singapore to draw water from it during this dry season.

Our position on this issue is well known to Malaysia. We have stated this publicly, and also conveyed it to the Malaysian Government, including at the highest levels. The Malaysian Government understands the position. Foreign Minister Anifah Aman said on 17 February 2014 that "An agreement is an agreement. When there is an agreement, we will honour the agreement. If there is any need for review, we will forward it and if their response is positive, we will start talking."

We welcome the Foreign Minister's statement. It reaffirms the position Malaysia has taken previously on honouring the agreement (and indeed that cannot be in any doubt), and acknowledges that a review of the water price is possible only if Singapore agrees to such a review.

Ms Lee also asked about the Johor government's reported proposal for a price review. We have only heard of this proposal from media reports emanating from Johor. But there have been no official approaches from Malaysia on this issue.

It would thus be premature to speculate on the impact of any such approach on our bilateral relations. We enjoy good relations with Malaysia at all levels, starting with the two Prime Ministers. But good relations also depend on both parties taking a broad approach to the relationship and honouring all agreements between the two countries. We will continue to work to enhance our cooperation and friendship with Malaysia, in order to benefit both our peoples. Thank you.
 
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Singapore's position is that Malaysia has lost its right to review the water price. The Water Agreement provided for the review after 25 years. Specifically, there was a right to review the price of water jointly in 1987.

This is a rather unique interpretation of "The Water Agreement provided for the review AFTER 25 years" Did the agreement stipulate that the review has to be immediately after 25 years? Or it could be anytime after 25 years. 2014 is after 25 years.

Look at Shamu's argument - Mudland doesn't want to review because they were afraid of sinkapore raising the price of treated water. What has changed? Sinkapore still can raise the price of treated water. Sinkapore is fearful because mudland can decide to stop buying treated water now that Johor is self sufficient in treated water.

It is idiots like Shamu and kee chiu that will get sinkapore into a conflict with the neighbours. We can't expect the neighbours to be nice to us when we continue to take advantage of them.
 
it's necessary for sinkies to understand sg will ultimately be held to ransom by malaisea on the water issue, and sinkies must be conditioned to consume shitwater over time as a precaution so that when shit hits the fan, every sinkie can survive the lack of nature's water from rain and rivers, and instead thrive on shitwater with gradual mutational changes and genetic adaptation. eat shit and not die will becum the hallmark of a new breed of sinkies. :p
 
you r right should add 1 more zero and make it 500 years instead. then no needcto argue so much
this one also hang the bugger.
 
During the WWII , the Japanese capture Malaysia. They then threatened to cut off the water supply , the mighty Brits capitulated
 
The Old Fart got us into this situation when he engineered the departure of sinkapore. Sinkees are condemned to a hard life thanks to Old Fart, who will leave this earth still wondering if he will be remember well. History will be re-written after the PAP is tossed out of power and the facts will show that Old Fart had such a big ego that he played with the lives of sinkees to massage that ego.
 
The Old Fart got us into this situation when he engineered the departure of sinkapore. Sinkees are condemned to a hard life thanks to Old Fart, who will leave this earth still wondering if he will be remember well. History will be re-written after the PAP is tossed out of power and the facts will show that Old Fart had such a big ego that he played with the lives of sinkees to massage that ego.

I disagree w u ...I think we will b worse off staying w mudland w mahatirs pro bumi policies. Nvm if PAP is in power or not.


Issue is Singapore remains a sovereign country, we can screw PAP n their policy but Singapore sovereignty should b independent.
 
Using stupid law and believe on international law? Anything from West scarp in Asia. Reform!

Kuai lan go change to smaller pipes or lower the pump pressure and over the other end let them take long long to fill up 1 drum full.



Malaysia lost its right to review water price after choosing not to do so in 1987: Shanmugam

Below is the transcript of Mr Shanmugam's reply to a parliamentary question by Ms Ellen Lee (Sembawang GRC), who had asked whether the existing water agreement signed between Malaysia and Singapore allows for Malaysia to raise the price of raw water sold to Singapore at any time before its expiry in 2061:

Ms Ellen Lee had asked whether Malaysia had the right to review the price of raw water sold to Singapore. We have stated our position on this issue and also conveyed it officially to the government of Malaysia on several occasions.

As I mentioned in my COS speech yesterday, neither Malaysia nor Singapore can unilaterally change the price of raw water sold to Singapore. Indeed, neither party can unilaterally change any of the terms of the 1962 Water Agreement. This is no ordinary agreement. It was guaranteed by both Governments in the Separation Agreement in 1965, which was registered at with United Nations. Both countries have to honour the Water Agreement and the guarantee in the Separation Agreement. Any breach of the Water Agreement would also be a breach of the Separation Agreement and of international law.

Singapore's position is that Malaysia has lost its right to review the water price. The Water Agreement provided for the review after 25 years. Specifically, there was a right to review the price of water jointly in 1987. However, Malaysia consciously chose not to review the price. It had good reasons for this.

Malaysia benefits greatly from the current pricing arrangement. Johor buys 16 million gallons per day of treated water back from us at 50 sen per 1000 gallons. 50 sen per 1000 gallons is only a fraction of the true cost to Singa*pore of treating the water, which includes building and maintaining the entire infrastructure of the water purification plants.

Malaysian leaders have acknowledged that Malaysia benefits from the current arrangement, and explained that indeed that was why Malaysia made a carefully considered decision not to review the water price in 1987.

Then-Malaysian Prime Minister Dr Mahathir Mohamad said in 2002 that Malaysia did not revise the water pricing when it was due because they thought Singapore would also revise the price of treated water supplied to Malaysia. One can refer to a Bernama report on 11 October 2002.

Then-Johor State Assembly Speaker Zainal Abidin Mohd Zain said that the Johor Government had not made a mistake in not pressing for a review in 1986 and said, "there was no point in doing so because Johor was dependent on Singapore for its treated water supply, and Singapore would have also increased its price of treated water sold to Johor" (New Straits Times, 3 July 2002).

Under the Agreement, after Malaysia decided not to review the water price in 1987, there is no longer any right to review the price of water.

Had Malaysia exercised the right to review the water price in 1987, Singa*pore might then have made different investment decisions to develop the Johor River, for instance the Linggiu Dam project of 1990. In the event, Malaysia chose not to review the water price in 1987, and on that basis Singa*pore then took several actions, which also benefitted Malaysia. This included building the Linggiu Dam at a cost of over S$300 million, which has increased the yield of the Johor River and enabled both Johor and Singapore to draw water from it during this dry season.

Our position on this issue is well known to Malaysia. We have stated this publicly, and also conveyed it to the Malaysian Government, including at the highest levels. The Malaysian Government understands the position. Foreign Minister Anifah Aman said on 17 February 2014 that "An agreement is an agreement. When there is an agreement, we will honour the agreement. If there is any need for review, we will forward it and if their response is positive, we will start talking."

We welcome the Foreign Minister's statement. It reaffirms the position Malaysia has taken previously on honouring the agreement (and indeed that cannot be in any doubt), and acknowledges that a review of the water price is possible only if Singapore agrees to such a review.

Ms Lee also asked about the Johor government's reported proposal for a price review. We have only heard of this proposal from media reports emanating from Johor. But there have been no official approaches from Malaysia on this issue.

It would thus be premature to speculate on the impact of any such approach on our bilateral relations. We enjoy good relations with Malaysia at all levels, starting with the two Prime Ministers. But good relations also depend on both parties taking a broad approach to the relationship and honouring all agreements between the two countries. We will continue to work to enhance our cooperation and friendship with Malaysia, in order to benefit both our peoples. Thank you.
 
the person sure take a lot of undertable when signing this treaty.
 
What about the one who drafted the FTA with India?

We know that it is the work of the four Indians in cabinet plus the then President, who is also Indian. There is an Indian conspiracy to takeover the country from the Chinese.
 
This is a rather unique interpretation of "The Water Agreement provided for the review AFTER 25 years" Did the agreement stipulate that the review has to be immediately after 25 years? Or it could be anytime after 25 years. 2014 is after 25 years.

Look at Shamu's argument - Mudland doesn't want to review because they were afraid of sinkapore raising the price of treated water. What has changed? Sinkapore still can raise the price of treated water. Sinkapore is fearful because mudland can decide to stop buying treated water now that Johor is self sufficient in treated water.

It is idiots like Shamu and kee chiu that will get sinkapore into a conflict with the neighbours. We can't expect the neighbours to be nice to us when we continue to take advantage of them.

Seriously, you believe what Shamu said? What if I told you there are actually 2 water agreements, one of which has already expired. What if I told you that in 2000 Old Goat flew to KL to negotiate unsuccessfully with Mahathir over the renewal of the water treaty. What if I told you that Mahathir wanted more money, Old Goat did not want to pay it and wanted a new treaty with longer expiration. What if I told you that mahathir was still pissed at Old Goat for the derogatory comments in made in the past about Malaysia (eg 1997 Old Goat called JB a "den of thieves"), and about the forced relocation of the train station from Tamjong Pagar. What if I told you that Old Goat and Mahathir have the 2 biggest egos in SE Asia and that their pride led to the failure of negotiations?

When u look in this context, it does not matter what the price of water is, the negotiations were doomed to failure from the outset.
 
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Typical behaviour from the legalists in the Leegime.

They obey the word of the law but ignore the spirit of the law.

This also manifests itself in many of the laws involving peasants and their everyday life.
 
This is a rather unique interpretation of "The Water Agreement provided for the review AFTER 25 years" Did the agreement stipulate that the review has to be immediately after 25 years? Or it could be anytime after 25 years. 2014 is after 25 years.

Look at Shamu's argument - Mudland doesn't want to review because they were afraid of sinkapore raising the price of treated water. What has changed? Sinkapore still can raise the price of treated water. Sinkapore is fearful because mudland can decide to stop buying treated water now that Johor is self sufficient in treated water.

It is idiots like Shamu and kee chiu that will get sinkapore into a conflict with the neighbours. We can't expect the neighbours to be nice to us when we continue to take advantage of them.

This fucker Shanmugan.
Please tell him to keep his mouth shut.
Talk too much later Malaysia Minister dont like it. They will review the price by saying they have right to increase price after 25 year.
Now Johor already have enough capacity of treated water plant they do not need to buy from SG.
They can just lan lan increase price. Just keep the mouth shut and let the water agreement just continue without mentioning by Minister/MPs in public or Parliament.
Only talk when Malaysia side officially written in letter that they want to increase water price. If not TELL our minister just keep their mouth shut about water issue with Malaysia.
 
During the WWII , the Japanese capture Malaysia. They then threatened to cut off the water supply , the mighty Brits capitulated

ur history book fake one lah... the japanese threaten to cut off water if the brits dun up the price. the brits tulan, decided to sell cheaper newater to the japs up north with their poorly process pee. the jap actually stupid enough to believe the brits until got 1 running dog tell them the truth. then they sibeh tulan decided to run over the brits and bakuke over every single one of them.

and they rewarded the whistle blower with a well paid translator job.
 
it's necessary for sinkies to understand sg will ultimately be held to ransom by malaisea on the water issue, and sinkies must be conditioned to consume shitwater over time as a precaution so that when shit hits the fan, every sinkie can survive the lack of nature's water from rain and rivers, and instead thrive on shitwater with gradual mutational changes and genetic adaptation. eat shit and not die will becum the hallmark of a new breed of sinkies. :p

Water is a state issue. It's Johore that is requesting for a rate review. That is understandable really. Their population is growing and they may require more water for themselves instead of selling at a cheap rate to Singapore.
 
survival of sinkieland is very dependent on malaysia, i have a hunch that sinkieland will be returned to malaysia after old fart is gone, maybe after a few decades.
 
The Old Fart got us into this situation when he engineered the departure of sinkapore. Sinkees are condemned to a hard life thanks to Old Fart, who will leave this earth still wondering if he will be remember well. History will be re-written after the PAP is tossed out of power and the facts will show that Old Fart had such a big ego that he played with the lives of sinkees to massage that ego.
Even if Singapore is part of Malaysia, it will still need to pay and negotiate with Johore for this commodity. At one time I think LKy wanted to buy water from Pahang.
 
we have indonesia and malaysia hot behind our heels, seemingly, once they get rid of us, they will prosper more, that's what in their mind.
 
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