Whither Chee Soon Juan?

[guavatree]

You should be asking why a S'pore citizen should be put through all these just because he wants to exercise his rights to participate in politics.

you've responded to another balless clueless PAP cock sucking moron ... LOL

 

[cleareyes]

That is why it is important to have the executive power check by the judiciary and an independent press to safeguard public interest, which is not the case now. The current political system needs some reforms which SDP has been pushing for.

I believe that we not only need an independent press, but also a responsible as well as one who would not anyhow mouth off without proof and do so with prejudice.

judiciary itself should be independent as well but at the same time, must be responsible for their own conduct and action.

I do not see SDP pushing any form of reform of whatever u r saying. demanding refiorm is one thing, but making empty demands with noi alternative solutions is not pushing, its just plain noise making.

 

[chinkangkor]

I believe that we not only need an independent press, but also a responsible as well as one who would not anyhow mouth off without proof and do so with prejudice.

A responsible press is one which reports at least factually even if its journalistic standards are found wanting. This basic factual reporting is lacking in the 154th, which has blatantly sought to twist reality to fit into its pay master's political agenda.

 

[chinkangkor]

judiciary itself should be independent as well but at the same time, must be responsible for their own conduct and action.

What if the judiciary is in cahoots with the executive to persecute opposition? Executive influence in judiciary has been pointed out by independent international agencies.

 

[chinkangkor]

I do not see SDP pushing any form of reform of whatever u r saying. demanding refiorm is one thing, but making empty demands with noi alternative solutions is not pushing, its just plain noise making.

SDP has publicly called on the ruling PAP to discuss
political reforms and the ways to go about putting these reforms in practice. Sadly, the call has fallen on PAP's deaf ears. SDP has already a plan on political reforms for S'pore, its just that PAP's addiction to absolute power is hard to kick off.

IBAHRI in its report this year on S'pore has also made the same call and have laid out suggestions for the PAP govt to adopt. So far, PAP has shown no interest to implement any of them.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

I seem to get the impression that Dr Chee is hoping and praying for the "unknown unknown" political variable or political "black swan" to suddenly erupt a sort of spontaneous combustion to wake up the masses from PAP's opiate these last almost 5 decades. Because I can't see any true substantial political reforms to constrcutively and objectively level the political playing field happening in the foreseeable future but for such an extreme trigger precursor.

Fact of the matter is that Singapore's current ground reality is no way even close to the conditions that brought about the March political tsunami in Malaysia and furthermore we have no equivalent to Anwar (who himself sadly looks to have had his bluff called by BN after the Malaysian parliament sat again earlier this month).

Which then leads one to ask the simple profound question: "Are Singaporeans really worth suffering for in the political matyrdom manner"? Well Ninoy Aquino once asked himself that same question to the point of dying with respect to his battle against Marcos for the Filipino people, once when he rotted in prison for 7 years without much of a reaction from the Filipino people and then again in 83' before he embarked on his fatal trip back to the Manila from exile in the States. Even under such terrible and difficult socio-economic conditions, it had to take the public assassination of Ninoy Aquino to finally awaken the Filipino people from their political slumber. So frankly speaking I can't see Dr Chee making much traction with the Singapore masses in the foreseeable future barring the unforeseen/unknown. That said Dr Chee's agenda still appears to fulfill a role in Singapore's political progress but to what extent still remains to be seen.

The next political milestone of sorts appears to be the demise of Lee Kuan Yew.

I believe that the road of the SDP is clear. He has given up entirely on the parliamentary route and intends to embarass and harass the PAP domestically and internationally through non violent means and court actions till the PAP crumbles under both internal and external pressure. I have my doubts as to the viability of this road but it is the road that the SDP has chosen. His belief is that his actions have forced the PAP to relent and I believe there is some justification for this view. However whether this pressure leads to major change or some minor adjustments is still to be seen. I for one expect the next batch of Tak Boleh Tahan protestors to have the book and kitchen sink thrown at them because they now have a "legal but limited" means of protest.



Locke

 

[zack123]

I seem to get the impression that Dr Chee is hoping and praying for the "unknown unknown" political variable or political "black swan" to suddenly erupt a sort of spontaneous combustion to wake up the masses from PAP's opiate these last almost 5 decades. Because I can't see any true substantial political reforms to constrcutively and objectively level the political playing field happening in the foreseeable future but for such an extreme trigger precursor.

Fact of the matter is that Singapore's current ground reality is no way even close to the conditions that brought about the March political tsunami in Malaysia and furthermore we have no equivalent to Anwar (who himself sadly looks to have had his bluff called by BN after the Malaysian parliament sat again earlier this month).

Which then leads one to ask the simple profound question: "Are Singaporeans really worth suffering for in the political matyrdom manner"? Well Ninoy Aquino once asked himself that same question to the point of dying with respect to his battle against Marcos for the Filipino people, once when he rotted in prison for 7 years without much of a reaction from the Filipino people and then again in 83' before he embarked on his fatal trip back to the Manila from exile in the States. Even under such terrible and difficult socio-economic conditions, it had to take the public assassination of Ninoy Aquino to finally awaken the Filipino people from their political slumber. So frankly speaking I can't see Dr Chee making much traction with the Singapore masses in the foreseeable future barring the unforeseen/unknown. That said Dr Chee's agenda still appears to fulfill a role in Singapore's political progress but to what extent still remains to be seen.

The next political milestone of sorts appears to be the demise of Lee Kuan Yew.

So what happens to Philippines after the political matyrdom of Aquino?

Corazon Aquino - Fidel Ramos - Estrada - Arroyo

It doesn't guarantee that toppling of 1 bad leader leads to better replacements.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

To add on, I believe there are quite afew "talented" Singaporeans who would like to contribute to Singapore's political development from a non PAP position but have been consistently put off by PAP's harsh dirty political games. It is either join them (PAP), get co-opted or stay out altogether and enjoy a happy peaceful life with your family.

Frankly real substantial political reform can probably only occur in Singapore if PAP makes a very serious political error (perhaps like an NKF equivalent), PAP splits, or the economy tanks so badly and the PAP has no clue as to how resolve such a crisis.

The problem with the opposition is not a lack of talent (as the PAP would want you to believe). The problem is that once a talented person joins the opposition ranks, this person is then removed from the game using forcible means, i.e. "given a red card".

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

If "blatant abuse" does indeed occur, in particular real shocking corruption, nepotism, cronyism and extreme human rights abuse (like ISA detentions, political disappearances and political assassinations) then I tell you that it is finally the start of the slippery road to PAP's inevitable fall from power. This is an obvious consequence repeated time immemorial throughout history. Lee Kuan Yew has said so himself on numerous occasions.

We will not know after LHL, whether the future PAP leaders will be as benign in their authoritarian ways as the current PAP leaders or there will be blatant abuse of power.

.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

That was not the point that I was trying to address. My reference to Ninoy Acquino was in respect to what it may take to finally wake up the public masses from their political slumber under a longstanding all dominant single political entity.

But since you raised this issue, I am of the view that generally speaking liberal democracy was and is an abject failure in the Philippines because of the traditional Filipino politico/socio/economic traditions and culture that has existed in the Phillipines since Spansih colonial days. In short even up to today, 400 odd families appear to have control over the Philippines and that includes the families of Aquino, Cory(Cojuangco), Ramos, Marcos, Imelda(Romuldaez), Macapagal, Ayalas etc. And these traditional powerful families are not prepared to share their power, land and money with the Filipino masses notwithstanding thriving liberal democracy and Edas I & II. What the Philippines badly needs now is plato's "philospher king" to rule with a firm strong authoritarian but benevolent and courageous hand to try and finally level the playing field for all Filipinos. Once this has finally been achieved then perhaps the Philippines can then move on to liberal democracy with sound instituitions in place.

So what happens to Philippines after the political matyrdom of Aquino?

Corazon Aquino - Fidel Ramos - Estrada - Arroyo

It doesn't guarantee that toppling of 1 bad leader leads to better replacements.

 

[chinkangkor]

If "blatant abuse" does indeed occur, in particular real shocking corruption, nepotism, cronyism and extreme human rights abuse (like ISA detentions, political disappearances and political assassinations) then I tell you that it is finally the start of the slippery road to PAP's inevitable fall from power. This is an obvious consequence repeated time immemorial throughout history. Lee Kuan Yew has said so himself on numerous occasions.

By then it will be too late for S'pore, which will be like philippines under Marcos. It is better for us to have a viable alternative political choices rather than to wait for the political system to become rotten.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

We do no necessarily get what we wish for.

By then it will be too late for S'pore, which will be like philippines under Marcos. It is better for us to have a viable alternative political choices rather than to wait for the political system to become rotten.

 

[zack123]

That was not the point that I was trying to address. My reference to Ninoy Acquino was in respect to what it may take to finally wake up the public masses from their political slumber under a longstanding all dominant single political entity.

But since you raised this issue, I am of the view that generally speaking liberal democracy was and is an abject failure in the Philippines because of the traditional Filipino politico/socio/economic traditions and culture that has existed in the Phillipines since Spansih colonial days. In short even up to today, 400 odd families appear to have control over the Philippines and that includes the families of Aquino, Cory(Cojuangco), Ramos, Marcos, Imelda(Romuldaez), Macapagal, Ayalas etc. And these traditional powerful families are not prepared to share their power, land and money with the Filipino masses notwithstanding thriving liberal democracy and Edas I & II. What the Philippines badly needs now is plato's "philospher king" to rule with a firm strong authoritarian but benevolent and courageous hand to try and finally level the playing field for all Filipinos. Once this has finally been achieved then perhaps the Philippines can then move on to liberal democracy with sound instituitions in place.

1) Reflecting on the statement in red, would Spore have reached the stage?

2) Would the unavailability of good alternative opposition members vindicate the status quo?

 

[Neh_Neh_Pok]

This CSJ never learned his lessons, it is because of him hasty and never-think-twice character that gave the Pees the great advantage to win over the ops

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

1) Generally speaking you would have thought so, by and large.

2) Perhaps, but then I guess you would have to consider the reasons why there appears to be such "unavailability". Even Ngiam Tong Dow has been softly and gently arguing for the PAPs to "allow" a more credible albeit constructive oppo to rise as he understands that Lee Kuan Yew's model probably cannot be successfully sustainable over the long term, so better encourage good sincere oppos.

1) Reflecting on the statement in red, would Spore have reached the stage?

2) Would the unavailability of good alternative opposition members vindicate the status quo?

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Zack 123,

Let me add on a few observations if I may. I have been travelling abit around the region the last few months and also been talking to people in the region and reading up abit about their political histories and culture. Based on this, I must say that the appeal of a leadership in the form of Lee Kuan Yew does have its merits notwithstanding the authoritarian bent. There is no doubt much good in a strong dominant relatively sound honest constructive pragmatic and sincere government that practices and delivers good sustainable governance over the longterm. Precious time and resources are not wasted on political games being played out between the various political parties and elite ancillaries. The obvious problems with this model though is "who watches the watchmen" and can it be successfully and effectively sustainable over the longterm. These are perhaps the very issues that Singapore needs to find answers to over the coming years.

 

[zack123]

Zack 123,

Let me add on a few observations if I may. I have been travelling abit around the region the last few months and also been talking to people in the region and reading up abit about their political histories and culture. Based on this, I must say that the appeal of a leadership in the form of Lee Kuan Yew does have its merits notwithstanding the authoritarian bent. There is no doubt much good in a strong dominant relatively sound honest constructive pragmatic and sincere government that practices and delivers good sustainable governance over the longterm. Precious time and resources are not wasted on political games being played out between the various political parties and elite ancillaries. The obvious problems with this model though is "who watches the watchmen" and can it be successfully and effectively sustainable over the longterm. These are perhaps the very issues that Singapore needs to find answers to over the coming years.

Yes i would agree with you but the problem facing Spore opposition is their inability to form a proper coalition. They are based on cults. In addition i would say that the demonization of the opposition members has created certain level of fear amongst Sporeans.

However at the same time I would pity those opposition already in Parliament as they are trying to provide the check and balance system but at the say time chastised as being impotent by those who wants more opposition in Parliament.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Oppos here appear to be a fractious lot, made worse by the lack of depth and that is before taking PAP's devilish hand into consideration. Public masses are of no help either due to decades of PAP conditioning and relative reasonable good governance.

So how? To me the next milestone is probably the demise of Lee Kuan Yew barring unforesen circumstances before then.

Yes i would agree with you but the problem facing Spore opposition is their inability to form a proper coalition. They are based on cults. In addition i would say that the demonization of the opposition members has created certain level of fear amongst Sporeans.

However at the same time I would pity those opposition already in Parliament as they are trying to provide the check and balance system but at the say time chastised as being impotent by those who wants more opposition in Parliament.

 

[myjohnson]

I

am of the view that generally speaking liberal democracy was and is an abject failure in the Philippines because of the traditional Filipino politico/socio/economic traditions and culture that has existed in the Phillipines since Spansih colonial days. In short even up to today, 400 odd families appear to have control over the Philippines and that includes the families of Aquino, Cory(Cojuangco), Ramos, Marcos, Imelda(Romuldaez), Macapagal, Ayalas etc. And these traditional powerful families are not prepared to share their power, land and money with the Filipino masses notwithstanding thriving liberal democracy and Edas I & II.

And if I may add, the reason why the armed forces' capability had been checked to the to point of just being barely able to contain the rebels fighting against the central government. Not quite with the finesse some despots had managed to, with the citizen armies they had build up.

 

[one2unite]

Public masses are of no help either due to decades of PAP conditioning and relative reasonable good governance.

What do you mean by good governance? Would you consider it's good governance when an elected president gets told off that it would take 52-man years for details on our reserves and assets?