What went terribly wrong in Holland-BT for the best qualified opposit team in the GE

[lockeliberal]

Re: What went terribly wrong in Holland-BT for the best qualified opposit team in the

Dear Spare

The PAP won its power through working and combining both factions together :_)). Perhaps a WP SDP union in some form ?


Locke

JBJ is an Indian in a Sino-centric party

PAP wrote the playboook on winning race/language votes, and they can do it for all races. WP's reach into the Chinese-speaking ground matches PAP's, while SDP's reach into the English thinkers is not too far off PAP's....but PAP has the complete package

Pity that SDP's best Chinese/dialect speaker is CSJ who has been tarred and feathered in the mainstream press over the last 20 years...significant numbers of Chinese speakers are afraid to vote for him in the way that they arent for WP. Ang shows promise, but needs to fix that combover and speak more from the heart.

 

[mei mei]

Re: What went terribly wrong in Holland-BT for the best qualified opposit team in the

JBJ is an Indian in a Sino-centric party

For the sake of argument, if a Sino-centric party has an indian, the SDP has plenty of sino friendly candidates.

 

[allanlee]

Re: What went terribly wrong in Holland-BT for the best qualified opposit team in the

The team was made of Vincent Wijeyasingha, Tan Jee Say, Ang Yong Guan and Michelle Lee. Everyone one of them was amply qualified with sterling qualities and not one of them was a passenger in terms of some minority crap associated with GRC.

1) Holland-BT is where the rich, famous, and the movers and shakers reside. They may be 100% behind this team, see all the logic behind the arguments and may even be friends with them, but practically might have been a factor. These people traditionally really on access to power. They rely on the PAP to approve their development plans, their business models, the building approval plans with mansion, access driveways etc. They need a govt team in residence as their MP to get the approvals etc. Vincent and team are practically useless to them.

SDP nama sudah busok....... not only the rich n influential voted against them..... even the poorer folks from Holland housing estate didn't want to support them.

TSY, ML, VW and AYG better jump ship to another party for the next GE.

 

[gbomega]

Re: What went terribly wrong in Holland-BT for the best qualified opposit team in the

Tan Jay Say economic proposal and SDP medical restructuring is A+. Too bad, the heartlanders crowd lack foresight, wisdom and guts. They are more happy to hear candidates scolding PAP

 

[SpareTyre]

Re: What went terribly wrong in Holland-BT for the best qualified opposit team in the

For the sake of argument, if a Sino-centric party has an indian, the SDP has plenty of sino friendly candidates.

Name one that you would classify as a vote puller amongst Chinese monolinguist voters

 

[leetahbah]

Re: What went terribly wrong in Holland-BT for the best qualified opposit team in the

TSY, ML, VW and AYG better jump ship to another party for the next GE.

Funny people keep saying this. After 50 years not winning elections, these guys (WP, NSP, SDP, SPP, SDA etc) should seriously consider merging into one party. The only problem is everybody wants to be chief.

 

[SpareTyre]

Re: What went terribly wrong in Holland-BT for the best qualified opposit team in the

In theory yes, but practically not a snowball chance in hell.

The messaging and core personalities is too different.

You see Low Thia Kiang and Vincent being happy in such a merger?

The big danger to APs, in the new democracy 10 years from now, is allowing PAP to occupy the middle ground between SDP and WP

Dear Spare

The PAP won its power through working and combining both factions together :_)). Perhaps a WP SDP union in some form ?


Locke

 

[allanlee]

Re: What went terribly wrong in Holland-BT for the best qualified opposit team in the

Tan Jay Say economic proposal and SDP medical restructuring is A+. Too bad, the heartlanders crowd lack foresight, wisdom and guts. They are more happy to hear candidates scolding PAP

TJS is too "cheem" for the heartlanders....... if he wants to connect with them he gotta come down to their level.

 

[jw5]

Re: What went terribly wrong in Holland-BT for the best qualified opposit team in the

It doesn't matter to me whether VW or SDP declare that they will not advance a gay agenda if they get into parliament.

I have nothing against gays and their preferred lifestyles, but the moment they start rallying for their rights or promoting their lifestyles, my interest in them as professionals is lost. Again, it doesn't matter whether it's in private or public time.

For want of a more appropriate or less objectionable analogy, take the analogy of someone who walks to work despite living 10km away. Most people would drive, take public transport or cycle, but there's nothing wrong with walking. Basically, it's the person's choice. But if I own a company, I'm not going to hire a person who walks to work and spends most of his time telling people and making videos of the benefits and rights of people walking to work. If he walks to work everyday quietly and does the work that he was hired for properly, he would definitely be hired and treated no different than any other employee, probably better if he performs better.

 

[mollusk]

Re: What went terribly wrong in Holland-BT for the best qualified opposit team in the

..fuck all the analogies.It's the resident themselves that requested to be screwed for the next 5 years...

 

[i_am_belle]

Re: What went terribly wrong

the above (except 'be confident') don't describe LKY ... how come he always wins ?

 

[cheekenpie]

Re: What went terribly wrong in Holland-BT for the best qualified opposit team in the

This is now the new buzz and questions are plenty. Here is the outcome of the breakfast session post GE.

As expected there were number of schools thought with some having some very strong positions. But first the background;

The team was made of Vincent Wijeyasingha, Tan Jee Say, Ang Yong Guan and Michelle Lee. Everyone one of them was amply qualified with sterling qualities and not one of them was a passenger in terms of some minority crap associated with GRC. They spoke well, they grabbed the attention of Singaporeans from day one and had an excellent logistical and social media support from SDP. Everyone of their formal and informal comunications went well even when compared to the Behemoth PAP. The presence of Prof Paul Tambyah from NUH and his excellent speech. What went wrong and terribly wrong as the margin was 20% when VB had a perception and popularity issue with YOG, homelessness and price of meals albatrosses hanging his neck.

3 strong school of thoughts

1) Holland-BT is where the rich, famous, and the movers and shakers reside. They may be 100% behind this team, see all the logic behind the arguments and may even be friends with them, but practically might have been a factor. These people traditionally really on access to power. They rely on the PAP to approve their development plans, their business models, the building approval plans with mansion, access driveways etc. They need a govt team in residence as their MP to get the approvals etc. Vincent and team are practically useless to them. These are not heartlanders. They are not your usual salaried staff. They know that Town councils are either non existent in their ward or meaningless.

2) SDP Banner - The worse performing in previous GEs and with a negative legacy of not connecting with the people. As one pundit expressed - "the moment Alec Tok returned such a poor result knowing his credentials, the writing was one the wall". In fact all the well regarded candidates who joined SDP but were not associated with SDP such as Teo Soh Lung performed badly. I understand that Ms Teo cried and was upset that she left for home with close confidants. It is common knowledge that SDP was not the first choice as a party and in 3 of the cases were turned down by other opposition parties. SDP saving grace was having RP who performed badly as expected but both SDP and RP were buoyed by negative sentiments against the PAP. In comparison, SPP in Bishen-TP did very well.

3) The Gay / Sex with Boys smear. They outing of VW plus the video with the idiotic Ravi must have taken its toll. It video became viral before and after VB comment. The social media backlash did not seem to have VB who already is not popular have clashed with PAP Lily Neo and with some many negatives. The religious / conservative might have dealt a significant blow.

So which school of thought prevails or is it a combination of a number of factors. These are however quite conclusive
- the best slate of opposition candidates of qualification and performance
- they did badly when you compare the fact that every single one of WP candidates out performed them including some NSP candidates facing string PAP wards with entrenched sr cabinet figures.

Bear in mind that the PAP strategy team felt that the seat was under threat that they removed Lim Swee Say from it. It left a PAP team that was not even sino-centric which is not the normal PAP model and something which falls as a cardinal sin in party politics.

Do note that Dr Chee and the SDP followed the book on political campaigning and communication and completely differed from usual and past ethos of confrontational and PAP centric messaging.

They played by the book this time but the SDP name is so far dragged intot he m&d that the mere mention of it makes votes well turn off.

 

[Khun Ying Pojaman]

Re: What went terribly wrong

Good points above, why does SDP choose a rich man GRC like Holland-Bukit Timah?

Talk about what went right first:

Low Thia Khiang - confident, smiles, never angry, pass on Hougang to most capable person and not wife or son or relative

Yaw Shin Leong - smiles, pleasant

Chen Show Mao - never angry, smiles, confident

This WP team in video sees PAP truck come by, smiles and wave, this is positive, people associate this scene as positive, makes it pleasant to vote for them


What went wrong:

Tan Jee Say - His speech always sounds angry, the first sign of this anger is when he was unveiled. In that he said "gratitude is not servitude..". The way he say this, his tone sounds angry. His subsequent speeches sounds angry too. How will anyone vote for a person when he sounds angry, very simple, once he is MP, the timid would not dare approach him because his tone sounds angry.. For this, Tan Jee Say lost votes because of his tone.

Second thing about Tan Jee Say is, he don't really need to give this "gratitude is not servitude" comment. Did Tan Jee Say meant to say he got the scholarship not on merit? If yes, then he need to give this "gratitude is not servitude" talk. If he got the scholarship based on merit, he don't need to give this talk. This comment makes him looks like he was given the scholarship because of some connection and not merit.

Ang Yong Guan - If he does not sounds angry, he speaks like a used car sales man trying to close a quick deal. It is only the way he speaks, the content is fine and he is a highly qualified person. Some voters are not comfortable with people who talk like used car sales man.

Michelle Lee - She is quite alright, she smiles a lot which is good. Can`t really find any fault with her.

Vincent Wijeyasingha - He speaks well and don`t sound angry. Only thing that come to mind is during the TV debate, he was sneaking around attacking Tharma. Some people may not be comfortable with these sneak attacks.


So this team lose to Vivian Balakrishnan. What went right for Vivian Balakrishnan? There was this video where Vivian Balakrishnan is seen giving either Tan Jee Say or Ang Yong Guan a pat on the back. This is impresive and will truly swing votes in Vivian Balakrishnan favour.


Chiam See Tong - He only went for a GRC when he is like close to his deathbed. Bishan-Toa Payoh resident will not be impressed with that. This is like PM Lee saying sorry 2 days before election. Compare to Low Thia Khiang, Low went for a GRC when he is still healthy and able. That`s why he won. Second problem with Chaim, passing on to your wife won`t work, Chaim needs to learn from Low Thia Khiang.

Lian Chiam - This woman seems to have no brain which was confirmed during the TV debate. Keep saying my husband this, my husband that, who really give a shit about your husband.. At least Tin Peh Ling is better, she don`t say my husband good friend with PM Lee, my husband that..

Nicole Seah - She started very well, confident, plenty of smiles, answer question well. Come rally day, she started going down. She give angry speeches. She attacks the PM etc. Her face look strained, no more confidence, no more smiles - lose votes for this. Then out of desperation, she apologized for MM Lee comments. That was unnecessary, lose votes for desperation.

Then Nicole Seah pulls one of the common cons pulled by women - cry. That don't win votes, that will cost you votes. Does anyone really believe that Nicole cry because of those people who are poor or have suffered? Of course not. If Nicole really cares, she won`t be contesting elections! Nicole will be helping the poor on her own accord or with a social organization and not as a candidate for general elections. That crying stunt cost Nicole dearly, people see through her con and she lost votes for pulling the crying trick.

Lastly, one thing to note, having celebrity status does not equal votes. Having more likes in Facebook than MM Lee does not equal votes.

Lesson learnt: Be confident, always smiles, never give an angry speech, never attack your opponents.

Wow....that is quite a post-mortem.

 

[karmabear]

Re: What went terribly wrong in Holland-BT for the best qualified opposit team in the

I don't think SDP did much ground work. They have a very good media platform but it's the ground troops that win the war. I think we have to give props to TSJ and Dr Ang. They were clearly out of their element. For critics like leetahbah, why don't you try giving a speech to 10,000 people? They sound angry because they have to psyche themselves enough to speak. Specially Dr Ang... I am going to demand he go on a fitness regime before campaigning again. There were times I thought he would have a heart attack. I think they did well for a first try although I wouldn't contest holland bukit timah GRC...

 

[SpareTyre]

Re: What went terribly wrong in Holland-BT for the best qualified opposit team in the

Dear Spare

The PAP won its power through working and combining both factions together :_)). Perhaps a WP SDP union in some form ?


Locke

What is slightly less implausible is an NSP-SDP alliance.

WP is on the uptrend, no interest at all in buddying other OP

Other parties are non-starters, except maybe SPP-RP

I can totally see Hazel, Tony, Nicole, GMS at home in a toned down SDP. But first SDP needs to shed the hardcore liberal rights faction and NSP needs to lose the old guard.

But things that make sense in singapore opposition politics rarely happen.

haha

 

[Windsor]

Re: What went terribly wrong in Holland-BT for the best qualified opposit team in the

One main factor that lost them votes is being under the SDP banner and their association with CSJ. To his supporters, it has to be said and it is brutal. CSJ has a stigma and anyone associated with him will be tainted. Whatever he did in the past is going to haunt and dogged his footsteps and it would be best for him to seek a different career or work behind the scenes. His diehard supporters may have the impression that CSJ personifies the aspirations of the ordinary folks and he is well-received by many but the reality is, he is not. Truly a harsh POV but sometimes one needs to be brutally frank.

 

[blahblah]

Re: What went terribly wrong in Holland-BT for the best qualified opposit team in the

... But first SDP needs to shed the hardcore liberal rights faction ...
haha

Agree. Politics is about branding, association with the brand, exposure in the +ve light (lots of this). And work gotta start now and not few months before GE. Just like a 2 year old kid can say McDonalds whenever he sees a letter-M.

Positive Branding should start now.

 

[Rogue Trader]

Re: What went terribly wrong in Holland-BT for the best qualified opposit team in the

Positive Branding should start now.

I think SDP has done a great job at re-branding themselves over the past couple of years. The road shows, the Hong Lim sessions, the new media reach out etc. The big name intellects they attracted spoke for itself. I think they just need more time.

 

[mesmerised]

Re: What went terribly wrong in Holland-BT for the best qualified opposit team in the

SDP just too greedy. They should have sent all their candidates to fight in SMCs instead of trying to be on par with WP and NSP by trying to take on GRC's.

I didn't find their Manifesto nor 10 pledges compelling at all. In fact, the 10 pledges made me worry that these SDP candidates are MP-wannabe's on cheap sale!

I found VW to be a sneaky fella from the day he appeared on TV and touting the SDP Shadow Budget to Tharman. Even if Tharman didn't smile, the rest of the civil service staffers who worked on national budgetting were certainly laughing like crazy at his audacity!. I told myself then, "this snotty bastard will bring the party down with his ego trips". And when the gay issue came up, my mind was made up. SDP doomed again!

TJS and AYG looked like 2 retrenched 'used car salesmen' indeed. They were both shouting angrily every time they were on stage with TJS often saying "10 billion dollar" without the 's'. I was convinced that this guy obviously not fit to be MP with his thug like mannerisms.Wonder how he lasted with GCT, making $300K a year as his PPS!

Ang Yong Guan is a joker and I cannot see him as MP material too, esp given his penchant for talking hokkien like Ah Beng soldiers and I often wondered if he knows anything about politics. He portrayed himself like someone giving lectures on "stress management to NSF recruits".

Michelle Lee looked like a pretty face more than a politician. Yes, she had good scripts to read during the rallies. But these were often recycled materials that didnt make her 'stand out'. For someone with a degree from London School of Economics and ex-MAS experience, she hardly offered any views on our Economic model from a global perspective or challenges arising from a rising China or India.

Teo Soh Lung??...should have just retired long ago. Listen to her for 3 minutes and you can switch off!

Gomez, as usual became a pain with "Operation JB" remarks about Khaw Boon Wan. He can disagree with the adequacy of our health policies on meeting the needs of the citizens. But to say derogatory things like "banishing him to JB"of all places really made him look like someone who is uncouth and unfit for office as an MP.

SDP really needs to do some soul searching on how it portrays itself to the electorate...otherwise it will have to be contented with the 30% that traditionally vote against the PAP, regardless of who is standing.

in fact.

 

[scroobal]

Re: What went terribly wrong in Holland-BT for the best qualified opposit team in the

Sino-friendly profile is the essential in Singapore politics. JBJ had that with this association with WP. SDP however is not. Chee attempted to address with his Hokkein speech.

My takeaways from conversations with candidates, SDP org team, and personal observations and guesses were:

1. Rich votes for them approached the high 40% mark. Failed to get the heartland vote. Consensus that SDP themes works best with the wealthy, TJS said it was a shame that the poor whom they are trying to help most are the ones who didn't give them support

2. Must boost its Sino-friendly profile - will continue to be unelectable until this is fixed. Along with possibly CSJ question, this is SDP's greatest weakness.

3. Election shows ability to mobilise committed minority support....strong Malay and Indian presence. SDP may be main beneficiary of RP collapse as perception that NSP is WP Lite. SDP/RP is for those who think in English and WP/NSP is for those who think in Chinese. The few truly bilingual like Nicole, Ang, Hazel will straddle both sides. Outliers are whats needed to win that decisive few percentages...ie, Pritam/Gerald/Sylvia for WP and a couple LTK Lites for SDP. Show Mao would have been a great SDP get, but until they gain an electoral track record, the CSMs of this world will continue to favour WP.

4. After this election, candidates are convinced of the value of walking the ground.

5. Said nothing about the SDP banner, but my surmise is that other than setting up their own party, CSJ may also consider stepping down as one alternative. If the VW team leaves, the SDP cupboard is bare anyway

6. Feeling is that the gay issue made some difference, but it will go away in next few years as Singaporeans get used to the idea and young voters come onstream.