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Well-known Atheist Now Believes in God Based on Scientific Evidence

Perspective

Alfrescian
Loyal
The house of cards on which this pseudo-scientist had stood is flimsy indeed.

But when Anthony Flew was an atheist he would probably be the champion of these chaps. And that is the point. Whether in the Politics section or here, I don't make double standard arguments which I cannot live up to. Unfortunately the Fish now joins the Drift in the backburner for putting words in my mouth, distorting my meanings, blatant double standards, causing a repeat after the echo has died down, among others.
 

fishbuff

Alfrescian
Loyal
But when Anthony Flew was an atheist he would probably be the champion of these chaps. And that is the point. Whether in the Politics section or here, I don't make double standard arguments which I cannot live up to. Unfortunately the Fish now joins the Drift in the backburner for putting words in my mouth, distorting my meanings, blatant double standards, causing a repeat after the echo has died down, among others.

and your point is?
still, the argument come back to full circle, there is no proof that god exist and you cannot justify that the protestant christian god is the real one and every other religion is false.

you are still twisting around, playing possum and there is no evidence for his existence. when it comes to science, that is the major paradigm to debunk all superstitions and religions cannot stand against it.
 
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Perspective

Alfrescian
Loyal
and your point is?

I agree, you haven't been looking at the point, read: intentionally suppressing the eyes.

still, the argument come back to full circle, there is no proof that god exist and you cannot justify that the protestant christian god is the real one and every other religion is false.

you are still twisting around, playing possum and there is no evidence for his existence. when it comes to science, that is the major paradigm to debunk all superstitions and religions cannot stand against it.

Face it. To you, anything that espouses God is "twisting around". Face it, you are not looking for evidence. Face it, you have already made up your mind and every bit of evidence you will never fail to find a counter even at the expense of the theory self-invented, wrongly applied and end up rebutting both religion and science. Be honest here, full stop.

What I lose respect for is 1) the argument that I have been running away when the accuser themselves faded out from the debate and 2) all these happened in a thread that after it had sunk, the accuser surfaces the accusation. There are many in Sammyboy and I have come across the same tactics in the Politics section as well. Case closed.
 

fishbuff

Alfrescian
Loyal
I agree, you haven't been looking at the point, read: intentionally suppressing the eyes.



Face it. To you, anything that espouses God is "twisting around". Face it, you are not looking for evidence. Face it, you have already made up your mind and every bit of evidence you will never fail to find a counter even at the expense of the theory self-invented, wrongly applied and end up rebutting both religion and science. Be honest here, full stop.

What I lose respect for is 1) the argument that I have been running away when the accuser themselves faded out from the debate and 2) all these happened in a thread that after it had sunk, the accuser surfaces the accusation. There are many in Sammyboy and I have come across the same tactics in the Politics section as well. Case closed.

and you should face it too. that you have harden your mind to see anything else; cold hard truth and facts are out there to show otherwise and yet you fail to listen, reason and understand. too bad. blind lead the blind.

accuser? come on, if you are not exhibiting proper reasoning and intelligence, do you think you will win respect? nothing but a bunch of hokums and lies to deceive people around. you have no evidence to prove otherwise the existence of god, and so you are twisting the words around and cry foul over tactics of assaults.

i dont need your respect, initially i thought i can have some intellectual discussions but now i realize im talking to a bunch of fanatics who have total disregard for facts, logic and reasoning. respect have to be earned and none of the xtian forumers have exhibit proper reasoning skills. If people are born with lower iq, i can understand. but all of you are educated people in sg, and yet you are willing to blind yourself and harden your mind to facts? it is unbelieveable.

hey, this is sammyboy forum, dont expect people to be courteous. if you cant stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
 
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Perspective

Alfrescian
Loyal
and you should face it too. that you have harden your mind to see anything else; cold hard truth and facts are out there to show otherwise and yet you fail to listen, reason and understand. too bad. blind lead the blind.

accuser? come on, if you are not exhibiting proper reasoning and intelligence, do you think you will win respect? nothing but a bunch of hokums and lies to deceive people around. you have no evidence to prove otherwise the existence of god, and so you are twisting the words around and cry foul over tactics of assaults.

hey, this is sammyboy forum, dont expect people to be courteous. if you cant stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

You're wrong. I am. But maybe so, and maybe we are the same.

Who was talking about courteous? It's one thing to be vulgar and unreasonable and another to be dishonest - the latter requires that you enter other's word territory and I would appreciate that you can stay on your own and word whatever you want.

But who made you judge to say that I expect you to be courteous and cannot stand the heat? I am giving it to you what you deserve, so you should apply your own advice and get out then if you want to complain.

""initially i thought i can have some intellectual discussions ""

You were never looking for that. Be honest.
 
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fishbuff

Alfrescian
Loyal
You're wrong. I am. But maybe so, and maybe we are the same.

Who was talking about courteous? It's one thing to be vulgar and unreasonable and another to be dishonest - the latter requires that you enter other's word territory and I would appreciate that you can stay on your own and word whatever you want.

But who made you judge to say that I expect you to be courteous and cannot stand the heat? I am giving it to you what you deserve, so you should apply your own advice and get out then if you want to complain.

""initially i thought i can have some intellectual discussions ""

You were never looking for that. Be honest.

pleeease .. when you and psalm23 discredited the scientific theories which showed the lack of god's existence otherwise, that showed that all of you religious followers have no regards for what is the true. hypocrisy at its best. can you honestly tell everyone that the current scientific theory are false and your invisible god is real?

when i face with such fat headed people who refuse to listen, i lost patience and respect for these fanatics. and that goes for all religious nutjobs out there. intelligent discussion? it is more like what Galileo tried to reason with the vaticans.

come on, all ye faithful... start burning the heretics.
 

Psalm23

Alfrescian
Loyal
pleeease .. when you and psalm23 discredited the scientific theories which showed the lack of god's existence otherwise, that showed that all of you religious followers have no regards for what is the true. hypocrisy at its best. can you honestly tell everyone that the current scientific theory are false and your invisible god is real?

when i face with such fat headed people who refuse to listen, i lost patience and respect for these fanatics. and that goes for all religious nutjobs out there. intelligent discussion? it is more like what Galileo tried to reason with the vaticans.

come on, all ye faithful... start burning the heretics.

You are putting words in my words....(I don't know about Perspective, whether he has said it. But I doubt so). Since when I said scientific theories are false? Show me one. What I am saying is that that all scientific theories to prove that God doesn't exist is false. This is very different from saying: All scientific theory are false. There are many observations that we can make and can come to the conclusion - for Christian only please - that the Bible is accurate and we can trust the word of God as inspired and infallible. Bible says about countless stars before man knew in fact there were more stars in the sky that the grains of sands in all the beaches. This doesn't involved any scientific theory, because there isn't one...It's just factual observation when man invented high-power telescope. This is just one of the many observations that we unknown to science but they were already in the Bible. The infallibility of the word of God, the Bible is proved not be scientific theory. You need to look upward to heaven, to sky and you can see the handiwork of God, when you to look inward into our evil and sinful self, you will realise that every God's word is true; and when you look outward the news in the newspaper, the internet, the TV and what's happening in the world, you can see that the Bible is not just a historical books of Moses, Joshua, Abraham, David, Mary, Joseph or even Jesus, it is a book about us, about me, about you and about how God's dealing with mankind.

Please don't words in my mouth. Please don't lie to people that I tell lies.
 

Thick Face Black Heart

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
In science, theories must have some degree of factual support before they are considered worth investigating. The only exception is in astrophysics where people do invent theories first and then seek confirmation through some form of experimental evidence.

Since the microbiology revolution in the 1960s, there has in fact been overwhelming evidence to support the theory of evolution at the cellular level. So your statement that evolution cannot be proven is incorrect.

Furthermore, let us first clarify what we mean by "proof" in science. In mathematics, "proof" is purely deductive, a chain of reasoning using first order logic starting from a universally accepted set of basic axioms that leads to theorems. In physics, chemistry, and other experimental sciences, the first step of "proof" involves a process of induction rather than deduction. A theory is created because it fits the facts, and other theories may be formed only if they explain or generalize earlier theories, without contradicting experimental evidence. The key is that all theories must be falsifiable -- meaning that it is conceivable to observe something that negates the theory. That is the crux of the difference between science and religion. Religion, by its own definitions, do not concern with falsifiable statements. Science is only permitted to explore falsifiable hypotheses, and no other.

So in the sciences, theories are developed because they explain experimental results, and because they enable accurate prediction of future phenomena. You don't use a theory to prove something. All theories must be proven either by a process of deduction or induction. Any theory that cannot be proved thus must be discarded.



It depends whether you are talking about scientific facts or theories. As an example, neither creation or evolution can be proven using experiments - for now at least. Until someone can invent an environment that can create life (Peter Miller was the closest but still failed) or an actual person can piece together life proving that only an intelligent being can create life, or a fast-speed environment is artificially made that can evolve a bird into something else. That would be very advanced.

An example of a fact is water boils at 100 degrees. A theory would be that if the moon moved closer to the sun, Venus would be hotter.

In the meantime, people who use theories to prove the trueness or falseness of religion is fine and natural.
 

guy-uninterrupted

Alfrescian
Loyal
why do people regard science and religion as separate when one should in effect continue to prove the other correct and not contradict each other?
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/2sp9h4B8WCE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 

vamjok

Alfrescian
Loyal
why do people regard science and religion as separate when one should in effect continue to prove the other correct and not contradict each other?
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/2sp9h4B8WCE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

the reason why we scientists convert to islam....the only logical reason i can thought off is this. we can get more wives to fuck more girls legally. scientists are a scheming lot, trust me, i am one.
 

guy-uninterrupted

Alfrescian
Loyal
just going on a slight tangent here .This i share with all of you is a video of what an agnostic Jew views the Quran.
hope we all can get a clearer picture of what Muslims believe vis a vis the idea of paradise and the notion of the 72 virgins.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/yBEjfeB6GGs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 

greenies

Alfrescian
Loyal
You may be interested in what Einstein said about Buddhism.

"The religion of the future will be a cosmic religion. It should transcend personal God and avoid dogma and theology. Covering both the natural and the spiritual, it should be based on a religious sense arising from the experience of all things natural and spiritual as a meaningful unity. Buddhism answers this description. If there is any religion that could cope with modern scientific needs it would be Buddhism."

In truth, Buddha mentioned about: -
1) Universe before telescope was invented,
2) Tiny matters and livings before microscope was invented, and
3) Gas-liquid-solid states regarding how the earth evolved.

Buddhism does not contradict with any scientific finding, and even the past-life and after-life matters (in which the scientists want to prove something) were prevailed.


In science, theories must have some degree of factual support before they are considered worth investigating. The only exception is in astrophysics where people do invent theories first and then seek confirmation through some form of experimental evidence.

Since the microbiology revolution in the 1960s, there has in fact been overwhelming evidence to support the theory of evolution at the cellular level. So your statement that evolution cannot be proven is incorrect.

Furthermore, let us first clarify what we mean by "proof" in science. In mathematics, "proof" is purely deductive, a chain of reasoning using first order logic starting from a universally accepted set of basic axioms that leads to theorems. In physics, chemistry, and other experimental sciences, the first step of "proof" involves a process of induction rather than deduction. A theory is created because it fits the facts, and other theories may be formed only if they explain or generalize earlier theories, without contradicting experimental evidence. The key is that all theories must be falsifiable -- meaning that it is conceivable to observe something that negates the theory. That is the crux of the difference between science and religion. Religion, by its own definitions, do not concern with falsifiable statements. Science is only permitted to explore falsifiable hypotheses, and no other.

So in the sciences, theories are developed because they explain experimental results, and because they enable accurate prediction of future phenomena. You don't use a theory to prove something. All theories must be proven either by a process of deduction or induction. Any theory that cannot be proved thus must be discarded.
 
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