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Vincent Cheng: ISA victims must speak out

metalslug

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Loyal
http://yoursdp.org/index.php/news/singapore/4167-vincent-cheng-isa-victims-must-speak-out

Vincent Cheng: ISA victims must speak out
Monday, 27 September 2010
Singapore Democrats

v%20cheng%201.jpg


In the 1980s it was not uncommon to find workers being exploited and abused by their employers, some getting paid as little as $4.40 for eight hours of work. The PAP Government did nothing about this. One man tried to address this situation by working to empower these workers. He was Vincent Cheng.

For the first time since he was detained under the Internal Security Actin 1987, Mr Cheng has told his side of the story. He did this during the SDP's pre-election rally held at the Speakers' Corner last Saturday.


He told an enthralled audience the reasons for his arrest and how he was treated while under detention.

Mr Cheng was working under the Catholic church as part of the Justice of Peace Commission. He was educating low-income workers about their rights and training them how to take their cases to the authorities. He took up a job and worked alongside the workers to experience the hardship for himself and to see if what they were sayng were true. They were true, he told his audience.

Around that period, Mr Cheng said, Philippine dictator Ferdinand Marcos overthrown in a people power revolution. The Catholic church there laed by Cardinal Jaime Sin was influential in the ouster.

Mr Lee Kuan Yew was afraid that what happened in the Philippines would take place in Singapore. He had Mr Cheng and 21 others arrested on 21 May 1987.

While under detention, Mr Chen was deprived of sleep for days and interrogated in a cold room where he was assaulted. ISD officers repeatedly hit him in the face and punched him in his back and chest. He succumbed to the beating and was forced to confess on television that he was a Marxist conspirator.

During his televised confession and unbeknownst to his captors at that time, Mr Cheng told the crowd that he had, as a sign of protest, he combed his hair to look like Mr Lee Kuan Yew. The audience roared with laughter.

Off camera, the ISD officers were present at the taping to ensure that the detainees adhered to the approved script. And the "journalists" at Caldecott Hill went along with this nonsense to mislead the public.

"If we do not redress history, history will repeat itself," Mr Cheng told the crowd at the rally. "The first step towards redress is for victims to open their mouths or pick up their pens.

"Hundreds of other detainees who suffered much much more without the chance of seeking redress especially those who have gone to their grave in a blanket of silence. We, who are still alive, owe them the duty to to speak out the truth and accordingly provide their contribution to the true history of Singapore."

To the support of everyone listening, Mr Cheng ended: "The SDP encourages and fully supports this move."

Today workers continue to be exploited. They have little recourse as trade unions are banned. There is no minimum wage and the NTUC is headed by Minister Lim Swee Say who tells workers to work "cheaper, faster and better."

Earlier this year Mr Cheng was invited to speak at a seminar at the National Library. However, the authorities banned it. They forget that there's always more than one way to skin a cat.

The truth must be spoken and Mr Cheng is showing the way.

A recording of Mr Cheng's speech will be posted on this website shortly.
 

silverfox@

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Loyal
There are 2 things that he needs to tell us.

1. The chronicles of events from the day he lead the workers to voice out, what he wants them to say, what he wants them to do, what they actually did, till the day he was arrested. That would be a clearer picture why ISD arrested him.

2nd thing is if he was really innocent, why admit? Just because of beatings? So he wanted to live till today to tell us his story?

During the Japanese occupation, I wonder how many died because they do not want to admit from anti-jap activities.
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
There are 2 things that he needs to tell us.

1. The chronicles of events from the day he lead the workers to voice out, what he wants them to say, what he wants them to do, what they actually did, till the day he was arrested. That would be a clearer picture why ISD arrested him.

2nd thing is if he was really innocent, why admit? Just because of beatings? So he wanted to live till today to tell us his story?

During the Japanese occupation, I wonder how many died because they do not want to admit from anti-jap activities.

Why does he need to tell you anything? Are you so retarded? The fact he was arrested by the ISD already tells you the whole story. No need for a chronicle of events, when he has done nothing wrong, just like the other 21 people arrested. He was a marxist conspirator? If that is so, than what do you call Lim Swee Say who lets in hundreds of thousands of communists from china to work here and take PR and form the largest 5th column you can imagine? If Vincent Cheng is a marxist conspirator, than Lim Swee Say must be a communist conspirator than?

U think when ISD arrest u, they put u in a 5 star hotel with French restaurant? U are such a retard. Beatings, sleep deprivation, and other forms of torture are SOP. This is already assured. He is right, and he has the right to ask for an accounting from the PAP and the ISD.
 

Cerebral

Alfrescian (InfP) [Comp]
Generous Asset
I think the comments from Silverfox is quite short-sighted. When under isolation and torture, you will almost admit to anything they want.
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
I think the comments from Silverfox is quite short-sighted. When under isolation and torture, you will almost admit to anything they want.

Silverdork things that the ISD needs a clear picture before they arrest u. LOL. I wonder if this fucker is really a singaporean. If Old Goat don't like your face, he can easily order the ISD to arrest u. They don't need any reason what so ever.
 

kingrant

Alfrescian
Loyal
With heinous regimes like Old man's, what's the use of a dead hero who cannot tell tales?

You must be an idiot to fight LKY on the level. From which Tora Bora cave did you emerge?

If Old Man had been as honest as he wants others to be, he wld be amongst the mass graves in the Sook Ching massacre and not repressing innocents with the law.

There are 2 things that he needs to tell us.

1. The chronicles of events from the day he lead the workers to voice out, what he wants them to say, what he wants them to do, what they actually did, till the day he was arrested. That would be a clearer picture why ISD arrested him.

2nd thing is if he was really innocent, why admit? Just because of beatings? So he wanted to live till today to tell us his story?

During the Japanese occupation, I wonder how many died because they do not want to admit from anti-jap activities.
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
With heinous regimes like Old man's, what's the use of a dead hero who cannot tell tales?

You must be an idiot to fight LKY on the level. From which Tora Bora cave did you emerge?

If Old Man had been as honest as he wants others to be, he wld be amongst the mass graves in the Sook Ching massacre and not repressing innocents with the law.

The last thing old man is is honest. LOL. Of the 3 most notorious occupations known for their dishonesty, he has already got two of them. i.e. politicians and lawyers. Unless he was a used car salesman that I was not aware of, he would have been all 3.
 

jw5

Moderator
Moderator
Loyal
There are 2 things that he needs to tell us.

1. The chronicles of events from the day he lead the workers to voice out, what he wants them to say, what he wants them to do, what they actually did, till the day he was arrested. That would be a clearer picture why ISD arrested him.

2nd thing is if he was really innocent, why admit? Just because of beatings? So he wanted to live till today to tell us his story?

During the Japanese occupation, I wonder how many died because they do not want to admit from anti-jap activities.
On your first point, the government also need to show and prove that there was evidence some people were planning a revolution using violence.
If they can't show that, then there was no basis for any arrests.

This is totally different from arresting potential terrorists under the ISA. Terrorists all over the world have shown that they are able and willing to use violence on any types of targets, military or civilians, connected or innocents, just to prove their point.

I disagree totally with your second point. People who have not been interrogated and beaten, should not comment. We don't know the extent of the beatings and the suffering.
 

balajii

Alfrescian
Loyal
i used to think to myself that sliverfox and aurad.. 's debate over at the casino thread is a tough and fair one with both showing good points.

but after silverfox's reply in this thread, i can conclude aurad.. is the cleverer one. :p
 

silverfox@

Alfrescian
Loyal
With heinous regimes like Old man's, what's the use of a dead hero who cannot tell tales?

You must be an idiot to fight LKY on the level. From which Tora Bora cave did you emerge?

If Old Man had been as honest as he wants others to be, he wld be amongst the mass graves in the Sook Ching massacre and not repressing innocents with the law.

We are only hearing the side of his story. Not saying that I do not believe what he said. In fact I am thinking, what did he actually do during that time (that catalyst his arrest)

"Mr Cheng was working under the Catholic church as part of the Justice of Peace Commission. He was educating low-income workers about their rights and training them how to take their cases to the authorities. He took up a job and worked alongside the workers to experience the hardship for himself and to see if what they were sayng were true. They were true, he told his audience.

Around that period, Mr Cheng said, Philippine dictator Ferdinand Marcos overthrown in a people power revolution. The Catholic church there laed by Cardinal Jaime Sin was influential in the ouster.

Mr Lee Kuan Yew was afraid that what happened in the Philippines would take place in Singapore. He had Mr Cheng and 21 others arrested on 21 May 1987."


I seriously don't think educating people about their rights and taking their cases to authorities will get arrested by ISD and being hantum to confession. It's more to that.

If educating people about their rights and taking cases to authorities can get arrested by ISD, I can tell you many people on online forums would have been in captive by now.

The crux is, was he then preparing a revolt or revolution? We will never get a clear answer to this, and this is the part where I think was the catalyst to why he was arrested, not because of educating people on their rights or taking their cases up to authorities.
 

silverfox@

Alfrescian
Loyal
On your first point, the government also need to show and prove that there was evidence some people were planning a revolution using violence.
If they can't show that, then there was no basis for any arrests.

This is totally different from arresting potential terrorists under the ISA. Terrorists all over the world have shown that they are able and willing to use violence on any types of targets, military or civilians, connected or innocents, just to prove their point.

I disagree totally with your second point. People who have not been interrogated and beaten, should not comment. We don't know the extent of the beatings and the suffering.

Read my post before this. We have got to hear 2 sides of the story and also complete ones.

Teaching people, and educating them to fight for their rights is a right thing to do, but if there are people because of their hatred for the govt uses these people to revolt and create trouble in the nation, then it is not a right thing to do. The motive is to really help these people or using them to build up numbers and revolt?

Never admit if you never do it. Because once you admit to something you never did, one day the truth is spoken, not everyone will believe.
 

Kid278

Alfrescian
Loyal
There are 2 things that he needs to tell us.

1. The chronicles of events from the day he lead the workers to voice out, what he wants them to say, what he wants them to do, what they actually did, till the day he was arrested. That would be a clearer picture why ISD arrested him.

2nd thing is if he was really innocent, why admit? Just because of beatings? So he wanted to live till today to tell us his story?

During the Japanese occupation, I wonder how many died because they do not want to admit from anti-jap activities.

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:UseFELayout/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} </style> <![endif]--> ISA is unlawful, it's against the rule of law. The british drafted this act only for its colonies, they do not have it in their homeland. It's injustice.

He confessed but was detained instead of being charge in a court of law. If there is no law against what he's doing and what he did then there's no case, he's not guilty of anything. Perhaps not entirely innocent as far as the old fart is concerned, he dont want to go down like marcos.

Dont make demands, how many days do you think you can survive or take it in a lockup, deprived of sleeps and being beaten?? Dont bother answering, you cant. Been there, only then will you be qualified to answer even to yourself.
 

silverfox@

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Loyal
He confessed but was detained instead of being charge in a court of law. If there is no law against what he's doing and what he did then there's no case, he's not guilty of anything. Perhaps not entirely innocent as far as the old fart is concerned, he dont want to go down like marcos.

Dont make demands, how many days do you think you can survive or take it in a lockup, deprived of sleeps and being beaten?? Dont bother answering, you cant. Been there, only then will you be qualified to answer even to yourself.

Should Mas Selamat be allowed to walk free today? He didn't bomb any mrt stations or anywhere in Singapore.

Why was Vincent Cheng singled out and being arrested and being beaten to confession and not you, not me or anyone else?
 

HellAngel

Alfrescian
Loyal
The arrest was in 1987? That is like 23 years ago. Those officers may already retired or even dead.

If the opposition was to win the election and form a government. I doubt they would abolish it too. They may even enhanced it.
 

silverfox@

Alfrescian
Loyal
Why does he need to tell you anything? Are you so retarded? The fact he was arrested by the ISD already tells you the whole story. No need for a chronicle of events, when he has done nothing wrong, just like the other 21 people arrested. He was a marxist conspirator? If that is so, than what do you call Lim Swee Say who lets in hundreds of thousands of communists from china to work here and take PR and form the largest 5th column you can imagine? If Vincent Cheng is a marxist conspirator, than Lim Swee Say must be a communist conspirator than?

If someone tells us 50% of what really happened and we believe 100% of it, it just shows that we are easily influenced.
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
If someone tells us 50% of what really happened and we believe 100% of it, it just shows that we are easily influenced.

I think you need to see a doctor, because you obviously suffer from amnesia in addition to your other ailments, possibly mental retardation. BOTH sides of the story have been told already.

On one side, the govt. claims he and the other 21 people are marxist conspirators. That they met together and explored marxist ideology and plotted a marxist regime. That their ultimate aim was the overthrow of the PAP and the installation of a marxist govt.

Vincent Cheng's view is that he did no such thing, and that he was merely educating the low income wage earners as to their rights.

A logical person would ask many questions such as where is the hard evidence produced by the govt.? Were there marxist literature, videos, was even the word marxist mentioned etc? Why is a roman catholic a supposed marxist when marxism disavows any form of religion? If there is such a fear of marxism in S'pore, than why is the PAP letting in hordes of communists from china and Vietnam, even at that time, there were already lots of contact with china? Where are weapons, uniforms, etc. associated with a marxist group bend on turning the whole place into a Marxist haven? U can ask many other questions, but there are already 2 sides to the coin. U have simply choose to ignore one side.
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
Should Mas Selamat be allowed to walk free today? He didn't bomb any mrt stations or anywhere in Singapore.

Why was Vincent Cheng singled out and being arrested and being beaten to confession and not you, not me or anyone else?

Mas Selamat has publicly stated that he will bomb and murder. His accomplices have also admitted that he planned acts of violence. He has been under surveillance, and there are hard evidence that if he was given the chance he will bomb and kill. Mas Selamat is wanted in Indonesia, Malaysia, and S'pore as a terrorist.

Vincent Cheng is clearly not in this category.

Its pathetic u cannot tell the difference.
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
The arrest was in 1987? That is like 23 years ago. Those officers may already retired or even dead.

If the opposition was to win the election and form a government. I doubt they would abolish it too. They may even enhanced it.

If the oppo wins, they should not abolish the ISA right away. They need to use it to investigate the many transgressions of the PAP. They need it to arrest all the PAP ministers and their lackeys and examine their bank accounts, starting with Old Goat. They need it to prosecute the kangaroo court judges who have perverted the justice system, as well as to investigate the various branches of the govt. such as the CPIB which have been used as the private secret force of the PAP.
 
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