• IP addresses are NOT logged in this forum so there's no point asking. Please note that this forum is full of homophobes, racists, lunatics, schizophrenics & absolute nut jobs with a smattering of geniuses, Chinese chauvinists, Moderate Muslims and last but not least a couple of "know-it-alls" constantly sprouting their dubious wisdom. If you believe that content generated by unsavory characters might cause you offense PLEASE LEAVE NOW! Sammyboy Admin and Staff are not responsible for your hurt feelings should you choose to read any of the content here.

    The OTHER forum is HERE so please stop asking.

Unethical practice by NTUC Income

makapaaa

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
33,627
Points
0
[h=2]Unethical practice by NTUC Income[/h]

dmca_protected_sml_120n.png

PostDateIcon.png
September 5th, 2013 |
PostAuthorIcon.png
Author: Contributions



ntucincome.png
What this article is about
-

This article takes a look at the wide and profound implication on the
insurance industry affected by simple unethical actions from NTUC Income. It
appears that insurance companies are able to avoid payouts to legitimate claims
simply by capitalising the loose interpretation of clauses and lack of knowledge
on the part of clients.

Background -

There is an ongoing case where a policyholder of NTUC Income is not paid in
spite of her being paralysed from waist down. The core issue appears to be what
constitutes “permanent incapacity”.

Forum letter from client to NTUC Income - Disabled
from waist down but insurance claim denied



I HAD an accident in February last year that left me disabled from the
waist down.


The doctor’s diagnosis was that I had suffered a spinal cord injury known
medically as cauda equina syndrome.


I cannot feel my legs. I lie in bed most of the time as sitting for long
periods puts immense pressure on my lower spine and causes a shooting pain in
the lower back.


I held a job in the banking industry for 12 years before the accident but
am unable to work now.


Two months ago, I contacted my insurer NTUC Income to make a claim on my
Dependants’ Protection Scheme policy. The coverage was up to $46,000, which is
not substantial but would be useful for an unemployed person.


The policy said there would be a
payout only upon death or permanent incapacity
. But I was told that my
medical condition did not qualify me for that as I could still perform sedentary
work.

Income replies - NTUC
Income explains why policyholder’s claim was denied



MS WENDY Tan said she was unable to make a claim under her Dependants’
Protection Scheme policy following an accident that left her disabled from the
waist down (“Disabled from waist down but insurance claim denied”;
yesterday).


The Dependants’ Protection Scheme is an affordable national scheme
intended to provide basic insurance in the event of the policyholder’s death or
permanent incapacity, which is defined as being physically or mentally
incapacitated from ever continuing in any employment, including
self-employment.


Conversely, if a person is able to perform simple or sedentary forms of
work, she is not considered to be permanently incapacitated.


According to Ms Tan’s attending specialist, she is able to perform jobs
that allow her to sit.

Using loose interpretation of term that supposedly triggers a payout
to avoid payments
-

It looks like NTUC Income is playing on the interpretation of the term
“permanent incapacity”. I believe that in the insurance industry, a more common
term used is “permanent disability”. I also believe that the industry practice
of determining what constitutes “permanent disability” is the permanent loss of
the use of two eyes, or permanent loss of the use of at least two limbs. Hence,
as far as industry practice is concerned, the claimant should be paid.

However, due to the ingenuity of NTUC Income, it has reworded “permanent
disability”, which has very objective interpretation, to a vague meaning loose
term called “permanent incapacity”. NTUC Income states that permanent incapacity
is the inability to do any work. But that is very loose and vague. This is
highly unethical and goes against the spirit of insurance – protection. Here are
my reasons:

1. DPS is supposed to compensate the loss in income earning ability
due to physical impairment
- This is the very reason why the client
takes up the policy in the first place. To protect her ability to earn an
income. The fact is that the client now suffers a condition that disallows her
to perform jobs that a fully able bodied person can do. She has to perform a job
that is going to restrict her income. Furthermore, currently, there are not many
jobs that are wheelchair bound friendly. How many jobs are there that allow you
sit throughout your work? Even so, you need to move about to eat, visit the
toilet etc. How many companies have facilities meant for such disabled?

What NTUC Income has done is to convert the very objective description of
what constitutes “permanent disability”, into a very subjective meaning of what
constitutes “permanent incapacity”. By making its terms vague, NTUC Income is
able to avoid making claims it otherwise would have to pay.

So in the end, what is the purpose of the DPS, if it doesn’t protect even a
fraction of the loss of the earning ability of the policy holder?

2. DPS is an opt out scheme and NTUC never explained the details to
the customer in person
- In the insurance industry, there is what is
supposedly called “in good faith”. This means that BOTH the client and the
company have to give all relevant details to each other. The client has to tell
the company his/her pre-existing illnesses. The company also has to tell the
client any “hidden and unseen factors” unknown to the client.

The opt-out scheme when it was first introduced has already broken this
golden rule of “in good faith”. Firstly, unwitting customers who did not opt out
are automatically in. But many of such customers don’t even know they have to
declare pre-existing illnesses. So when a claim is made, only then the company
tells the customers that they won’t be paid because of their non-declaration of
the pre-existing illness. But wait, isn’t it the duty of the company to make
sure that the customer knows he has to declare pre-existing illness? So why did
not the company send a rep to make it clear to the customer? The company has
equally failed in its duty of “in good faith”!

In the end, it is the customer who loses out. He pays so much in premiums and
he gets nothing in return. The company laughs all the way to the bank!

3. Client not told what “permanent incapacity” means - Let’s
get back to the NTUC Income case. It looks like the client who tries to make the
claim was not made known what constitutes “permanent incapacity”. Again, this is
the problem with the opt out scheme. No insurance rep was there to explain to
her when she was roped into the scheme. No signature from the client was
required. And the company assumed that all terms the company set will apply to
the client, whether she is aware of it or not. Again, this is against the
principle of “in good faith” because material info was withheld from the
client.

Far implication of Medishield Life and other opt out or forced
insurance schemes
-

This incident is going to have a very heavy implication on the Medishield
Life and other opt out or forced insurance schemes. Opt out and forced insurance
schemes will work the same way. No acknowledgement is required from the client.
The insurance companies can simply assume all the clients know the terms and
conditions of the policies they issue. So hard luck for the customers even if
they don’t have a clue what the terms are.

Then one fine day, when a claim is made, the company can point out any term,
any condition or whatever and tell the client that there is no case for a
payout, just like the NTUC Income case. Unlike the usual practice where the
client is explained the terms and conditions by a rep of the company, there is
no one to explain the terms to these ready made clients under the opt out or
forced schemes.

This is yet another reason to object to the mad forced Medishield Life
scheme.

Wrapping up and conclusion -

NTUC Income has worded the payout for “permanent incapacity” loosely and has
used it to its advantage. This is starkly different from the more objective
definition which has been the norm in the insurance industry. The norm is to
make a payout upon “permanent disability”, which means the loss of the use of
both eyes or the loss of use of at least two limbs. By NTUC Income’s definition,
the DPS only pays out upon death, total paralysis or when one deteriorates into
a vegetative state.

The issue of ethics come into play. Since the DPS is an opt out scheme, there
would certainly be many policy holders who do not know that they or their kin
may not be receiving any payouts, mainly due to non-declaration of pre-existing
illnesses and/or their ignorance on the terms of payout.

As it is today, the image of the insurance industry has already been riddled
with incidents that put them in bad light. This latest incident is not helping
NTUC Income’s image or the industry’s image one
bit.

Barrie

*
The writer blogs at http://wherebearsroamfree.blogspot.com.
 
insurance ask for premium, they call your father & mother
when you ask for insurance payout, you too have to call them father & mother
 
All insurance companies are full of crooks and schemers and liars and greedy bastards.........including the IAS, which is the insurance association of singapore, which is chaired usually by some senior directors or ceo of an insurance company and the chairman is rotated.......snakes in the same den.

MAS should step in, but it doesn't. Having MAS is like having a cocksucker, but it ain't sucking your cock for sure.
 
Last edited:
NTUC is technically and professionally correct
unless you are permanently disable and provened to be by a doctor, NTUC will NOT pay out
unless you are certified Terminal by a doctor, NTUC will not pay out
not only NTUC, but all Insurance Companies will NOT
it all depends on the certification of the doctor,the amount and the terms and conditions of your policy

my neighbor had a TERMINAL ILLNESS and he was certified TERMINAL by a Government Specialist
NTUC paid him in FULL and he passed on 6 months after that certification...wife got the cash
the bulk of the cash used to pay for TCM and esoteric therapy for her husband....left with nothing much in the end...sad hor
 
it is well known that ntuc income is fuck up in the insuarance industry. long payout period etc
 
it is well known that ntuc income is fuck up in the insuarance industry. long payout period etc

I made one claim before'
No problem leh....
If you got the right documents and the right supporting evidence to file a claim
usually no problem leh...my payment was prompt and no problems at all
I still have NTUC Income insurance with me...
the only problem now is: increase in excess and minimum bill, co payment, increase in deductible and increase in premiums!!!!!!!!!!
 
I made one claim before'
No problem leh....
If you got the right documents and the right supporting evidence to file a claim
usually no problem leh...my payment was prompt and no problems at all
I still have NTUC Income insurance with me...
the only problem now is: increase in excess and minimum bill, co payment, increase in deductible and increase in premiums!!!!!!!!!!

Why you complain? More money for NTUC means more money for PAP and more money for you! Majullah kopiuncle.
 
Why you complain? More money for NTUC means more money for PAP and more money for you! Majullah kopiuncle.

Which bloody insurance company on this earth, that is guranteed a lifelong income by their connection to a government?? Now with the upcoming Medishield LIFE...they do not even have to work hard to make a living, INCOME is lifelong for the insurer; just like the MIW's.
 
Last edited:
insurance ask for premium, they call your father & mother
when you ask for insurance payout, you too have to call them father & mother

Yes Income is untrustworthy........... after Tan Kin Lian left.

In the papers there were many letters of complaints conveniently swept under the carpet expose how ruthless can corporate be.....!!!
 
Ask for change to GE if you are alloted Income as Service Provider as there will BE NO service but rip off
 
NTUC is technically and professionally correct
unless you are permanently disable and provened to be by a doctor, NTUC will NOT pay out
unless you are certified Terminal by a doctor, NTUC will not pay out
not only NTUC, but all Insurance Companies will NOT
it all depends on the certification of the doctor,the amount and the terms and conditions of your policy

my neighbor had a TERMINAL ILLNESS and he was certified TERMINAL by a Government Specialist
NTUC paid him in FULL and he passed on 6 months after that certification...wife got the cash
the bulk of the cash used to pay for TCM and esoteric therapy for her husband....left with nothing much in the end...sad hor

Nothing but lies
 
Nothing but lies

mr han pls dont accuse me of lying
if you want the facts i can pm you in confidence - if you are really serious
ntuc is fair to all

what are lies and accusations are right here in this forum....
 
NTUC is technically and professionally correct

Technically correct your lan cheow lah. Professionally correct ler ay twee hor.

KNN people paralysed waist down still not considered permanent disable. Fuck you ok! Chee bye chow kopi come here and spread lies.

Wish you get the same cauda equina syndrome and enjoy hor. Then you can come back and tell if NTUC is technically and professionally correct. What a chee bye fella. Dui! Pui!!
 
mr han pls dont accuse me of lying
if you want the facts i can pm you in confidence - if you are really serious
ntuc is fair to all

what are lies and accusations are right here in this forum....

Chee bye kopi you are a fucking liar. Shame on you.
 
Technically correct your lan cheow lah. Professionally correct ler ay twee hor.

KNN people paralysed waist down still not considered permanent disable. Fuck you ok! Chee bye chow kopi come here and spread lies.

Wish you get the same cauda equina syndrome and enjoy hor. Then you can come back and tell if NTUC is technically and professionally correct. What a chee bye fella. Dui! Pui!!

if you ignorant, don't drag people to your level okay
if you have a cauda equina syndrome,you are not permanently disabled and you are not terminal
so you do not have any payout...if you can't understand ,please don't open your ignorant mouth...
the terms and conditions are there for you to read...and the doctor has certified that the claimant is NOT
permanently disabled.period.

don't put emotions into pure medical conditions.
 
Chee bye kopi you are a fucking liar. Shame on you.

another example of sheer negativity
state the facts and do not add emotional rage into pure medical conditions
the doctor has certified that the claimant is NOT PERMANENTLY disable...
not all wheel-chair bound patients are terminally or permanently disable...get this into your thick head
and stop using vulgarities and profanities with such a rabid mind....
 
Cauda equina syndrome (CES) is a serious neurologic condition in which damage to the cauda equina causes acute loss of function of the lumbar plexus, (nerve roots) of the spinal canal below the termination (conus medullaris) of the spinal cord. CES is a lower motor neuron lesion.

include weakness of the muscles of the lower extremities innervated by the compressed lumbar roots (oftenparaplegia), detrusor weaknesses causing urinary retention and post-void residual incontinence as assessed by bladder scanning the patient after the patient has urinated.

Also, there may be decreased anal tone and consequent fecal incontinence; sexual dysfunction; saddle anesthesia; bilateral (or unilateral) sciatic leg pain and weakness; and absence of ankle reflex. Pain may, however, be wholly absent; the patient may complain only of lack of bladder control and of saddle-anaesthesia, and may walk into the consulting-room.

Red Flag Symptoms for acute Cauda equina syndrome (requiring urgent hospitalisation) include sciatic leg pain and/or severe back pain, with altered sensation over saddle area (genitals, uretha, anus, inner thighs), urine retention or incontinence. If you have these symptoms, medical attention is necessary. Immediate treatment may help to preserve function.

The prognosis for complete recovery is dependent upon many factors. The most important of these is the severity and duration of compression upon the damaged nerve(s). Generally, the longer the time before intervention to remove the compression causing nerve damage, the greater the damage caused to the nerve(s).

Damage can be so severe that nerve regrowth is impossible, and the nerve damage will be permanent. In cases where the nerve has been damaged but is still capable of regrowth, recovery time is widely variable. Surgical intervention with decompression of the cauda equina can assist recovery. Delayed or severe nerve damage can mean up to several years' recovery time because nerve growth is exceptionally slow.

Review of the literature indicates that around 50-70% of patients have urinary retention (CES-R) on presentation with 30-50% having an incomplete syndrome (CES-I). The latter group, especially if the history is less than a few days, usually requires emergency MRI to confirm the diagnosis followed by prompt decompression. CES-I with its more favourable prognosis may become CES-R at a later stage.[11]
 
if kopi ignorant, don't drag people to kopi level okay
if kopi have a cauda equina syndrome,kopi is not permanently disabled and kopi is not terminal
so kopi do not have any payout...if kopi can't understand ,please don't open kopi ignorant mouth...
the terms and conditions are there for kopi to read...and the doctor has certified that the claimant is NOT
permanently disabled.period.

don't put emotions into pure medical conditions.

another example of sheer negativity
state the facts and do not add emotional rage into pure medical conditions
the doctor has certified that the claimant is NOT PERMANENTLY disable...
not all wheel-chair bound patients are terminally or permanently disable...get this into kopi thick head
and stop using vulgarities and profanities with such a rabid mind....

Updated version for kopi.

Chee Bye kopi is a Liar. Liar Liar pants on fire.
 
Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS) – also referred to as motor neurone disease in some Commonwealth of Nations countries and as Lou Gehrig's disease in the United States – is a debilitating disease with varied etiology characterized by rapidly progressive weakness, muscle atrophy and fasciculations, muscle spasticity, difficulty speaking (dysarthria), difficulty swallowing (dysphagia), and difficulty breathing (dyspnea). ALS is the most common of the five motor neuron diseases.

Although respiratory support can ease problems with breathing and prolong survival, it does not affect the progression of ALS. Most people with ALS die from respiratory failure, usually within three to five years from the onset of symptoms. The median survival time from onset to death is around 39 months, and only 4% survive longer than 10 years.[5] Physicist Stephen Hawking has lived with the disease for more than 50 years, though he is an unusual case.[6]

ALS is a terminal illness with total progressive and permanent disability.....And for this the insurance company will pay out upon the certification from a doctor.
 
Updated version for kopi.

Chee Bye kopi is a Liar. Liar Liar pants on fire.

Mr Cho, you are doing something that is totally unacceptable here...putting my name into my quotes...if BOSS and Super Moderators know about this type of behaviour,you will be banned PERMANENTLY.... You can challenge me on all accounts, but please do not do such "substitution" using my quotes. It is very misleading.Please stop asap.

You keep calling me a liar. I will enlighten you with the two conditions. Cauda equina syndrome and ALS...read and understand the two different conditions and stop calling people names and hurling obscenities....Have a good, wonderful and peaceful sleep.
 
Back
Top