Two oppositions, & why in the long run, they may not matter at all, part 1 - Alex Au

[scroobal]

Re: Two oppositions, & why in the long run, they may not matter at all, part 1 - Alex

Shaking hands is not exactly raising a profile, certainly not at the national level. If opposition parties have seats in parliament the expectation to have a profile is even more important lest the supporters and fans think that the incumbent is just collecting money and do nothing. It becomes evern more serious when you are in parliament for 18 years and still can find the means to train and trust members to voice opinions in well known channels. The mistake was go silent after the Yaw incident. It now stands more prominently.

There is also no comparison with RP which have been making for the wrong (balraj incident) and the right(KJ engagement with TOC, facebook, press releases) reason.

Agree. However read again and I also said SDP. I know some are eager to pinpoint their ex parties downwards so that their departure will not seem to be so much on them, but I also did state the SDP and can't proceed when the maths is not right.

RP is clearly not a leader of activities and press statements. WP and SDA are out as they have parliament channel. The Balraj case is also not prominently covered on TOC. Wonder where did that come from. However RP is clear leader in being a fresh entity and political residents like that. Also you are right - it a clear player along with SDP in publicity, but the latter clearly has problems with owners of the blog.

And going by his theory the lack of attrition for his new party must mean a deficiency on his party's part. If so I have yet to see a politician who doesn't try and build up a vehicle that he can ride on.

 

[Perspective]

Re: Two oppositions, & why in the long run, they may not matter at all, part 1 - Alex

You are basing your observation that TOC was started by ordinary folks who are non partisan in nature. That is not the case. It was an idea seeded by the PAP to source alternative views, provide a vent and a convenient repository of contrarian view. Shanmugam can now go to Europe and say that we do not crush dissent and show the amount of comments in TOC from readers. Andrew did not start the TOC, it was someone very close to the establishment. Andrew is what you call a perfect patsy - more so when he claims that he was WP member for 2 years. Both he and Ejay will get the perfect patsy award from the PAP.

Note no one from the establishment or associated with the establishment makes a comment in it. Might as well call it a bitching wall - one way traffic.

This idea was first mooted in the mid 90s but shelved when one of the PAP chaps chosen for it went overboard. At that time the chap was a law undergrad and guess what, its an law undergrad again.

The best approach is for all parties to take advantage of every and any opportunity to voice their views and concern. So while the TOC is there and those working in it have no clue, might as well use it.

To catch a myna, you always place one in the cage and the others will follow.

While I agree that they are not non partisan, I don't seem to subscribe to your theory. Many blogs would be such a showcase, not just TOC. The authorities also do not respond to them.

And if I am right that it's the same PAP chap, then he had been exposed and would have gone or TOC would have closed.

I would say they are shifting partisan. Overall there is nothing wrong, but the reasons for the shift is another matter. Indeed it gave a lot of coverage for WP in the past despite its silence and that is why I said 'reduction', not 'never' as the village idiot accuses. Then at one point for the SDP. If you can give the same amount of coverage for 2 parties whose noise levels are different, then it says a lot. I would think it deals with 'carrot and stick' unlike Alex - you offend me, sorry. But perhaps that is typical of NGOs.

Although RP does make a lot of 'noise', an extra is additionally whipped up, just like how it was done for WP. There are many ways to do this, such as covering an event twice.

And it's odd that my comments are taken less lightly than a conspiracy theory. If my comments do make TOC try to balance things out, why not. Unless I am right that TOC is not tolerant of criticism.

 

[Perspective]

Re: Two oppositions, & why in the long run, they may not matter at all, part 1 - Alex

OH pleeeeaaaassssse lah! With people like you here, I don't need to lift any fingers if I really want to put down my "ex-party". There is absolutely no reasons for doing so.

But it seems that while you say TOC is "intolerance of criticisms", you are also "intolerance of criticisms" of WP! Your warp logic is that you only see what is outside of your view, not the mirror!

I am simply pointing the fact that everybody, including Scroobal, could see clearly. TOC has NOTHING to report on WP basically because WP has not been making any noise! You don't believe, go and read WP website! When is the last press statement that it has issued? 15 OCT! More than two months ago! It is the biggest party with two seats in parliament, mind you!

Well, NSP is not as noisy too and that is why I am not complaining about TOC not reporting on NSP! I am smarter than you in that sense, actually. I don't want people to know NSP as a party, has not been making noise as well!

Don't keep blaming others but yourself. You have unwittingly caused self-inflicting damage on WP, nothing to do with me. Anyone with that a bit of sense would look beyond your skewed and twisted logic.

And I repeat again, facts are stacking on you and let's see who is the biggest idiot here.

Goh Meng Seng

You are sounding like a lunatic. Wonder why Scroobal would vouch for you.

 

[Perspective]

Re: Two oppositions, & why in the long run, they may not matter at all, part 1 - Alex

Shaking hands is not exactly raising a profile, certainly not at the national level. If opposition parties have seats in parliament the expectation to have a profile is even more important lest the supporters and fans think that the incumbent is just collecting money and do nothing. It becomes evern more serious when you are in parliament for 18 years and still can find the means to train and trust members to voice opinions in well known channels. The mistake was go silent after the Yaw incident. It now stands more prominently.

There is also no comparison with RP which have been making for the wrong (balraj incident) and the right(KJ engagement with TOC, facebook, press releases) reason.

What after the next election will be interesting. With at least 9 opposition and the GRC cap at 2, maybe for the first time more than 3 parties including PAP will be represented. I understand that has not been the scenario since 1960s. Both the PAP and opp incumbents would have some competition.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Re: Two oppositions, & why in the long run, they may not matter at all, part 1 - Alex

You are sounding like a lunatic. Wonder why Scroobal would vouch for you.

Now now, talking about facts makes me a lunatic! HAHA! I am more reserved in making criticisms or even comments about WP but it is just idiocy award winner like you that urge me on.

I have even tried to correct incorrect perceptions of netters about WP being "coward" or "mild" in avoiding "Civil Disobedience" by listing out past facts. And unlike Locke that would really criticize on Choong Yong's reply to TOC in the interview, I would just keep quiet about it. This is after all, WP's business. But if award winner like you wants to make a fool out of yourself, giving unsubstantiated views about how people "victimize" WP because of some vague mention of "intolerance", then I think it is only justifiable for all to make judgment on clear facts. I have laid it all out here. Which part of the parts that I have mentioned are illogical? Pure Madness? Rubbish? Nonsensical? Cannot name any? That does it.

But for a person like you that keep dodging pertaining questions and intolerable of criticisms to put labels on others, I guess it is best for all to see clearly your dull colors.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Re: Two oppositions, & why in the long run, they may not matter at all, part 1 - Alex

You are sounding like a lunatic. Wonder why Scroobal would vouch for you.

BTW, I will give you a good chance. Please point out any NOTABLE things, be it activity, messages or otherwise, about WP that TOC has missed in its reporting? If you can't even point them out, it would be clear to all how bias, vindictive and nonsensical you are.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Perspective]

Re: Two oppositions, & why in the long run, they may not matter at all, part 1 - Alex

I am sorry but am no expert of Non Sequiturs. How do I reply to someone who offers me a comb when I say I am hungry. Unless some 3 party can connect my posts with the logic behind those responses out of kindness otherwise I have no idea what the chap is saying or whether he is responding to me or some delusions formed in his head. Either way an interpreter is needed.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Re: Two oppositions, & why in the long run, they may not matter at all, part 1 - Alex

I am sorry but am no expert of Non Sequiturs. How do I reply to someone who offers me a comb when I say I am hungry. Unless some 3 party can connect my posts with the logic behind those responses out of kindness otherwise I have no idea what the chap is saying or whether he is responding to me or some delusions formed in his head. Either way an interpreter is needed.

Haha! It is well expected of you....or rather, non-expectation at all. Suddenly you have become a selected illiterate unable to understand simple thing like that.

You made a serious claim against TOC, that it has been reporting less on WP because its editors cannot take or intolerable of criticisms from WP members.

First, you have tried to escape to answer what criticisms were made by WP members since you claim again that you are not WP members and apparently there is no such WP responses posted on TOC at all.

Secondly, since you claim that TOC has somewhat refrain from reporting on WP, then I ask a simple question, what NOTABLE things about WP did TOC miss out? You cannot list it at all. I say, WP has not been making any noise, not much of activities and that is why there is no report about WP on TOC.

Instead of showing us FACTS to back up your claims against TOC's intolerance and bias, you have thrown labels on me: Idiot, Lunatic.

Can you see the pattern here? You are quick to make unwarranted claims and accusations on others, worse, throwing labels at others when you cannot substantiate what you say. You definitely have ZERO TOLERANCE towards people who criticize you and WP. And ironically, you mock at TOC of being hypocrite on preaching tolerance but practicing otherwise!

Now, who is the hypocrite here? I rest my case.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Perspective]

Re: Two oppositions, & why in the long run, they may not matter at all, part 1 - Alex

First of all, I also said SDP. Do you recognize that?

Second, by omitting SDP, my position would naturally be weaker and distorted. Do you recognize that?

If you recognize both, we go on. If not, it is a mere distortion of my picture, then you can continue in your obsession with WP.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Re: Two oppositions, & why in the long run, they may not matter at all, part 1 - Alex

First of all, I also said SDP. Do you recognize that?

Second, by omitting SDP, my position would naturally be weaker and distorted. Do you recognize that?

If you recognize both, we go on. If not, it is a mere distortion of my picture, then you can continue in your obsession with WP.

Now, you say WP members criticizing TOC and that is why TOC is reporting less on WP, right? It would mean that there are something worth reporting but TOC has deliberately not reported on them, so pray tell, what are they?

For SDP side, you didn't claim the same thing about TOC being intolerable of SDP members' criticisms. So be it. (Oh, sorry, you did lump SDP and WP together. Well, at least for SDP, they have many activities and messages not reported in the past but recently TOC has put up SDP's messages as well. So, why drag SDP into this one just to make it a cover for your biases?)

Goh Meng Seng

 

[lockeliberal]

Re: Two oppositions, & why in the long run, they may not matter at all, part 1 - Alex

Dear Perspective

Let's see how far the TOC responds to the criticisms given. Whether the TOC is shifting partisan, half a partisan, a half arsed biased commentary pretending to be a reporter partisan, the INTERVIEW in my view betrays a lack of media understanding and preparation on the part of the WP.

Firstly, as the Chinese saying going, face a bird do bird talk, meet a ghost to ghost talk, messaging and adjusting the message for the audience is basic PR and Politics 101, A smarter and more savvy person would not have given the sort of terrible sounbbites and comments that he did. He might be sincere but being sincerely wrong is of no use



Locke

 

[Hawkeye1819]

Re: Two oppositions, & why in the long run, they may not matter at all, part 1 - Alex

Spot on, Goh Meng Seng, especially the part which I highlighted in bold.

To be fair to TOC, it has covered walkabouts by Reform Party and NSP as well. But I guess WP's policy of declining any media coverage of their weekly walkabouts is precisely why TOC has not covered it. So blame who? TOC?

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Re: Two oppositions, & why in the long run, they may not matter at all, part 1 - Alex

Spot on, Goh Meng Seng, especially the part which I highlighted in bold.

You see, I am merely stating the facts that contribute to situation now but Perspective seems to look at it as an Ex-WP member like me grinding an axe against it...worst, would call me all sorts of names, from idiots, lunatic to ingrate. Apparently there are blind loyalty here. We always hear people complaining about some "blind loyalty" that some Singaporeans have towards PAP but it seems that there is no lack of such for WP as well, so much so that anybody who criticize or even mention any facts that don't put WP in a good look would be considered as "lunatic"!

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Hawkeye1819]

Re: Two oppositions, & why in the long run, they may not matter at all, part 1 - Alex

Nah, you missed out some of Perspective's point about SDP too. Anyway it's a light hearted discussion, no need for obsession with who's the village idiot or lunatic.

Support/loyalty for WP is understandable as it still is the largest oppo party with the most fresh faces. Doesn't mean others cannot overtake it in due course though...

You see, I am merely stating the facts that contribute to situation now but Perspective seems to look at it as an Ex-WP member like me grinding an axe against it...worst, would call me all sorts of names, from idiots, lunatic to ingrate. Apparently there are blind loyalty here. We always hear people complaining about some "blind loyalty" that some Singaporeans have towards PAP but it seems that there is no lack of such for WP as well, so much so that anybody who criticize or even mention any facts that don't put WP in a good look would be considered as "lunatic"!

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Re: Two oppositions, & why in the long run, they may not matter at all, part 1 - Alex

Nah, you missed out some of Perspective's point about SDP too. Anyway it's a light hearted discussion, no need for obsession with who's the village idiot or lunatic.

Support/loyalty for WP is understandable as it still is the largest oppo party with the most fresh faces. Doesn't mean others cannot overtake it in due course though...

Well, I do not have detailed information on SDP, thus no comment. In fact I find it odd that he mentioned SDP because TOC is apparently catching up with putting more information on SDP's messages and activities recently, in spite of some quarrels on the front as well as behind the scenes. It is really a misnomer. If he mentioned NSP, then I would say that isn't valid as well because NSP does not have much to offer as worthy news but we do allow TOC to go to our walkabout.

The mere mention of SDP is just a smoke screen, I guess. May be it would be good for Perspective to change his moniker to Blind Loyalty instead.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[scroobal]

Re: Two oppositions, & why in the long run, they may not matter at all, part 1 - Alex

Have to agree with GMS on this.

Its a situation that WP created and they are now paying the price. As I said they badly need someone to handle their PR. 18 years in parliament and they are getting quieter. Its a worry.

First of all, I also said SDP. Do you recognize that?

Second, by omitting SDP, my position would naturally be weaker and distorted. Do you recognize that?

If you recognize both, we go on. If not, it is a mere distortion of my picture, then you can continue in your obsession with WP.

 

[Sideswipe]

Re: Two oppositions, & why in the long run, they may not matter at all, part 1 - Alex

You peoples really expect too much of WP, LTK and CST.

WP 1 seat only in parliament. 18 years in parliament count for nothing. Politics are based on strength as of now not length of service.

I know nothing about TOC but if those peoples had so much to say and contribute, please go and stand for elections, win the peasants mandate and get into parliament. like what LTK did, fight elections and win, enter parliament and talk.

 

[Robert Half]

Re: Two oppositions, & why in the long run, they may not matter at all, part 1 - Alex

1981~1986 JBJ Anson

He is loud