Top Ten Reasons why Religion Is Bullshit

[Agoraphobic]

I can't possible be talked into thinking the way you want me to think! Your way is too rigid! Ok, so your God created EVERYTHING! At least everything that was good. And everything that is bad, is the work of Satan? God is loving, but if we are disobedient, we will burn in the everlasting fires of hell! So much for his love! It is better not to think too much about this Bible thingy. It will confuse our minds and make us stupid!

Cheers!

You are not reading me correctly at all. I said you need to ASSUME the worldview of the Bible when you evaluate the Bible, this is required in order to be fair to it. Asking you to put yourself in the other person’s shoes is not to ask you to convert, but to ask you to see things from the other side. Take for example your issue with a seven day period to create the earth. It’s already wrong to begin with! God did not take seven days to create the earth, He took only SIX days! And to be even more precise God took six ordinary days to create the heavens and the earth and all that is in them. The seventh day was a rest day, not because God was tired, but because He completed all He want to create and ceased the work of creation on the sixth day. Besides, since God is all powerful, He did not even need six days, He could have done it an instant, wouldn’t you agree? Or since God is not bound by time, and in no hurry, He could just as well take 15 billion years! So the issue is not over what God could have done, but what He actually DID and how long He actually took. One thing you need to learn, is to interpret the Bible according to the genre in which it was written. You do not allegorise what is literal or literalise what is allegorical or figurative. If you think a reading or interpretation does not make sense, ask yourself, in what sense does it not make sense? For example, you said Goliath may been seen as a large army. Well then, examine your own premise here, are you telling me that one shepherd boy David with one fling of a stone can kill an entire army of Philistines? A large towering Goliath makes better sense and is more coherent than your idea of a large army, don’t you agree?

 

[Frodo]

I can't possible be talked into thinking the way you want me to think! Your way is too rigid! Ok, so your God created EVERYTHING! At least everything that was good. And everything that is bad, is the work of Satan? God is loving, but if we are disobedient, we will burn in the everlasting fires of hell! So much for his love! It is better not to think too much about this Bible thingy. It will confuse our minds and make us stupid!

Cheers!

If you prefer not to expand your thinking and think out of atheism, then you can’t expect to make much progress in understanding beyond the narrow confines of atheism which simply shuts off everything outside of a myopic naturalistic mindset. You said my way too rigid, how so? Compared to atheism that rigidly insist on naturalistic causes only, even if the explanation does not explain or fails to explain what needs to be explained? Yes, God created the heavens and the earth and all that is in it. At the end of creation God said “It was very good”. There was nothing bad about what God created. You talk about good and evil as if they are real categories. But mind you, an atheist cannot even affirm what is good and what is evil from within his own atheism because atheism does not supply the basis or conditions for knowing or distinguishing moral good and evil. So if you wish to talk about good and evil, you would have to borrow these ideas from theism. Problem for the atheist, isn’t it? BTW, the Bible does not teach that everything that is bad is the work of satan. Neither would anyone be cast into hell simply because of disobedience. Your answers and understanding of Christianity is shallow, and that is precisely because you don’t think too much about the Bible, resulting in you making conclusions and claims about the Bible that is nothing less than…to use your own words…confused and stupid! But it doesn’t have to remain that way, if you would just choose to start understanding what you have presumptuously and uncritically rejected.

I noticed that you seem to avoid or evade locking horns with my replies, even though I try to respond to your posts in their individual points. It would be helpful if you would acknowledge that your points have been addressed, refuted, or not answered. Because keeping silent may well mean you have been silenced by your opponent’s better arguments! LOL!

 

[Agoraphobic]

I do not know what you mean by "thinking out of atheism." I go by common logic, simple common sense. Without big words, lengthy discussions on abstract ideas. In this, you say that my way of thinking is flawed? Coming back to the bible, it does not take much intelligence to identify its stories as simply that - stories. Tales, and fantasy. Some people will even say they are lies, but I think they were told with good intentions. So, they can be better described as "white lies." OF course, to believers, they are possible because they were made by God. So, to those who believe, more power to them!

Cheers!

If you prefer not to expand your thinking and think out of atheism, then you can’t expect to make much progress in understanding beyond the narrow confines of atheism which simply shuts off everything outside of a myopic naturalistic mindset. You said my way too rigid, how so? Compared to atheism that rigidly insist on naturalistic causes only, even if the explanation does not explain or fails to explain what needs to be explained? Yes, God created the heavens and the earth and all that is in it. At the end of creation God said “It was very good”. There was nothing bad about what God created. You talk about good and evil as if they are real categories. But mind you, an atheist cannot even affirm what is good and what is evil from within his own atheism because atheism does not supply the basis or conditions for knowing or distinguishing moral good and evil. So if you wish to talk about good and evil, you would have to borrow these ideas from theism. Problem for the atheist, isn’t it? BTW, the Bible does not teach that everything that is bad is the work of satan. Neither would anyone be cast into hell simply because of disobedience. Your answers and understanding of Christianity is shallow, and that is precisely because you don’t think too much about the Bible, resulting in you making conclusions and claims about the Bible that is nothing less than…to use your own words…confused and stupid! But it doesn’t have to remain that way, if you would just choose to start understanding what you have presumptuously and uncritically rejected.

I noticed that you seem to avoid or evade locking horns with my replies, even though I try to respond to your posts in their individual points. It would be helpful if you would acknowledge that your points have been addressed, refuted, or not answered. Because keeping silent may well mean you have been silenced by your opponent’s better arguments! LOL!

 

[Frodo]

I do not know what you mean by "thinking out of atheism." I go by common logic, simple common sense. Without big words, lengthy discussions on abstract ideas. In this, you say that my way of thinking is flawed? Coming back to the bible, it does not take much intelligence to identify its stories as simply that - stories. Tales, and fantasy. Some people will even say they are lies, but I think they were told with good intentions. So, they can be better described as "white lies." OF course, to believers, they are possible because they were made by God. So, to those who believe, more power to them!

Cheers!

It simply means to ask yourself, “If theism is true….” You want to use common logic and common sense? Sure. I’ve got logic and common sense on my side of the worldview because logic and common sense presupposes a greater Mind at work. But atheism cannot even explain where and how logic come about. Atheism hits against a wall to even try to explain it. For you to even use reason you have to presuppose the existence of God, but then again you are using your God-given reason to deny the existence of God. How rational is that? Not at all! I am not denying your intelligence, but you are again wrong. Are you saying that there are no intelligent Christians around, who are actually more intelligent than you or me? It’s not your intelligence that is at work here. As I have mentioned to you before, it’s your worldview that is driving your conclusions. It is your worldview of atheism that is leading you to conclude that the Bible stories are mere fiction simply because the spiritual and miraculous do not have a place in your atheistic worldview. It’s like a man wearing dark shades and declaring that the world is devoid of colours when the problem is his glasses with which he is viewing the world! But I suspect you know very well that if you assume “if God is true…” most if not all your questions would be adequately dealt with. But of course that wouldn’t be the conclusion you wish to see, am I right?

 

[Agoraphobic]

Who is right and who is wrong? Depends on which side one chooses. This argument (or debate) can never end. To you, all your arguments make sense, to others, they are absolutely nonsense. Vice versa may also be correct. My view will be illogical to those who choose to believe that a Christian God is the right way to think. That's why our species has accepted Freedom to Worship, as a right. We have been given a right, to be wrong, so to speak.

Cheers!

It simply means to ask yourself, “If theism is true….” You want to use common logic and common sense? Sure. I’ve got logic and common sense on my side of the worldview because logic and common sense presupposes a greater Mind at work. But atheism cannot even explain where and how logic come about. Atheism hits against a wall to even try to explain it. For you to even use reason you have to presuppose the existence of God, but then again you are using your God-given reason to deny the existence of God. How rational is that? Not at all! I am not denying your intelligence, but you are again wrong. Are you saying that there are no intelligent Christians around, who are actually more intelligent than you or me? It’s not your intelligence that is at work here. As I have mentioned to you before, it’s your worldview that is driving your conclusions. It is your worldview of atheism that is leading you to conclude that the Bible stories are mere fiction simply because the spiritual and miraculous do not have a place in your atheistic worldview. It’s like a man wearing dark shades and declaring that the world is devoid of colours when the problem is his glasses with which he is viewing the world! But I suspect you know very well that if you assume “if God is true…” most if not all your questions would be adequately dealt with. But of course that wouldn’t be the conclusion you wish to see, am I right?

 

[Frodo]

Who is right and who is wrong? Depends on which side one chooses. This argument (or debate) can never end. To you, all your arguments make sense, to others, they are absolutely nonsense. Vice versa may also be correct. My view will be illogical to those who choose to believe that a Christian God is the right way to think. That's why our species has accepted Freedom to Worship, as a right. We have been given a right, to be wrong, so to speak.

Cheers!

I suppose it never occurred to you where the notions of right and wrong, free will, logic, reason, freedom to choose etc come from. All these makes no sense within an atheistic worldview because the atheistic worldview cannot explain them at all. When there are competing and contradicting explanations to an issue, logic demands that either one is right or all is wrong. Telling me you have a choice to choose which explanation you like says nothing about the truth of that explanation. I am not haggling here over your right to choose atheism. I am explaining to you why atheism as a worldview is a failed one, and a false worldview.

 

[Agoraphobic]

That is your choice. To believe in biblical stories as actual historical events that happened, have a blissful life!

Cheers!

I suppose it never occurred to you where the notions of right and wrong, free will, logic, reason, freedom to choose etc come from. All these makes no sense within an atheistic worldview because the atheistic worldview cannot explain them at all. When there are competing and contradicting explanations to an issue, logic demands that either one is right or all is wrong. Telling me you have a choice to choose which explanation you like says nothing about the truth of that explanation. I am not haggling here over your right to choose atheism. I am explaining to you why atheism as a worldview is a failed one, and a false worldview.

 

[Frodo]

That is your choice. To believe in biblical stories as actual historical events that happened, have a blissful life!

Cheers!

As much as the choice is yours. Except that I have good reasons to support my choice of beliefs.

 

[Agoraphobic]

Your reason(s) will only be accepted by religious blokes like you. That God makes it possible - for a person to remain alive in a whale's stomach, not be chemically arranged by the animal's digestive juices, and be vomited out alive after that! And that a person can rise from the dead after three days in a tomb! Lucky thing they didn't have death certificates then! The doctor who signed the Lord's death cert would have lost his job!

Cheers!

As much as the choice is yours. Except that I have good reasons to support my choice of beliefs.

 

[Frodo]

Your reason(s) will only be accepted by religious blokes like you. That God makes it possible - for a person to remain alive in a whale's stomach, not be chemically arranged by the animal's digestive juices, and be vomited out alive after that! And that a person can rise from the dead after three days in a tomb! Lucky thing they didn't have death certificates then! The doctor who signed the Lord's death cert would have lost his job!

Cheers!

If it’s the truth, then why reject it? Or you reject it because of religious atheists like you? The truth is, you can’t fault the logic here. It is coherent and consistent with a theistic worldview. If God exists, why can’t a dead person rise from the dead? Mind you, the atheist bloke has his hands full explaining even why there is life in the first place. And who told you Jonah was in a stomach of a whale? The Bible said it was a big fish. Moreover, you have to note the context, Jonah wasn’t accidentally swallowed by the big fish. The big fish was SENT by God to swallow Jonah and to PRESERVE him for three days and it was God who commanded the fish to spit Jonah out. In all of these God was involved. He was protecting Jonah. Impossible you say? Well, only if you insist on atheism being true! Moreover Jesus also referenced Jonah in the belly of the fish when He was talking about own death and eventual resurrection. Jesus took it as a real historical event. Jesus’ death was a well attested to event. The Roman soldiers did not need a doctor to certify that an executed person was dead. The Roman soldiers were trained to kill! They have seen death and knew what it took to keep a dead man dead. That is why there are people who have investigated these things and came away from it as convinced believers. But there are many who are afraid to look further, lest they come face to face with the truth of a Risen Saviour.

 

[Agoraphobic]

You guys are lucky that religion is categorised under "philosophy" in the libraries and book stores. If not, it will be classified as "fiction" or be under the section known as Children's Books. Aiyah, just to be gentle and kind, I will refrain from the word "Bullshit." Because in adult vocabulary, that's exactly what it is!

Cheers!

If it’s the truth, then why reject it? Or you reject it because of religious atheists like you? The truth is, you can’t fault the logic here. It is coherent and consistent with a theistic worldview. If God exists, why can’t a dead person rise from the dead? Mind you, the atheist bloke has his hands full explaining even why there is life in the first place. And who told you Jonah was in a stomach of a whale? The Bible said it was a big fish. Moreover, you have to note the context, Jonah wasn’t accidentally swallowed by the big fish. The big fish was SENT by God to swallow Jonah and to PRESERVE him for three days and it was God who commanded the fish to spit Jonah out. In all of these God was involved. He was protecting Jonah. Impossible you say? Well, only if you insist on atheism being true! Moreover Jesus also referenced Jonah in the belly of the fish when He was talking about own death and eventual resurrection. Jesus took it as a real historical event. Jesus’ death was a well attested to event. The Roman soldiers did not need a doctor to certify that an executed person was dead. The Roman soldiers were trained to kill! They have seen death and knew what it took to keep a dead man dead. That is why there are people who have investigated these things and came away from it as convinced believers. But there are many who are afraid to look further, lest they come face to face with the truth of a Risen Saviour.

 

[Frodo]

You guys are lucky that religion is categorised under "philosophy" in the libraries and book stores. If not, it will be classified as "fiction" or be under the section known as Children's Books. Aiyah, just to be gentle and kind, I will refrain from the word "Bullshit." Because in adult vocabulary, that's exactly what it is!

Cheers!

Hmmm….you did not respond to what I wrote but instead went the route of ridicule and mockery and even patronising religious views and people? Or is that just a sore response that religion is not classified as fiction and children’s books as you would wish to? In my view this could just mean that even the libraries and bookstores are not on your side and disagree with your assessment.

 

[Agoraphobic]

Reason is because most people do not have the time to argue with those who are blind to logic!

Cheers!

Hmmm….you did not respond to what I wrote but instead went the route of ridicule and mockery and even patronising religious views and people? Or is that just a sore response that religion is not classified as fiction and children’s books as you would wish to? In my view this could just mean that even the libraries and bookstores are not on your side and disagree with your assessment.

 

[Frodo]

Reason is because most people do not have the time to argue with those who are blind to logic!

Cheers!

Really? Ad hominem response again? Anyway I beg to differ because it looks more likely that you could not argue against the one who has shown more logic. In fact, you could not even explain why logic should exist in your naturalistic worldview.

 

[Agoraphobic]

How to explain logic to someone who accept miracles as logical things? I do not have the vocabulary to explain things that happen miraculously as truth and in a way that I am able to make sense of! This is beyond me.

Cheers!

Really? Ad hominem response again? Anyway I beg to differ because it looks more likely that you could not argue against the one who has shown more logic. In fact, you could not even explain why logic should exist in your naturalistic worldview.

 

[Frodo]

How to explain logic to someone who accept miracles as logical things? I do not have the vocabulary to explain things that happen miraculously as truth and in a way that I am able to make sense of! This is beyond me.

Cheers!

If God exists, miracles are possible and certainly logical. Yes or no? BTW, you don’t need to explain logic to me. Because you have a bigger problem about how to explain where logic even come from and why it works. BTW, don’t forget that as an atheist you also have your miracles, mainly that the universe can just pop itself into existence and that life can just pop itself into existence, and that genetic information can just pop itself into existence. This is why it is often said that it takes more faith to be an atheist. LOL!

 

[Agoraphobic]

There you go again with this God makes everything possible! So, why all the sufferings and misery on Earth if God loves his children? Why do we pray, if there is a bigger scheme of things in his (or her's) plan? So that God will consider changing the game plan? Why are there different religions, worshipping different Gods? Why does God need to be worshipped?

Cheers!

If God exists, miracles are possible and certainly logical. Yes or no? BTW, you don’t need to explain logic to me. Because you have a bigger problem about how to explain where logic even come from and why it works. BTW, don’t forget that as an atheist you also have your miracles, mainly that the universe can just pop itself into existence and that life can just pop itself into existence, and that genetic information can just pop itself into existence. This is why it is often said that it takes more faith to be an atheist. LOL!

 

[Frodo]

There you go again with this God makes everything possible! So, why all the sufferings and misery on Earth if God loves his children? Why do we pray, if there is a bigger scheme of things in his (or her's) plan? So that God will consider changing the game plan? Why are there different religions, worshipping different Gods? Why does God need to be worshipped?

Cheers!

If you are asking a question within theism then you must be willing to accept a theistic answer. Are you? It would be a complete waste of time to craft a good answer based on the Bible to have you simply not even bothered to read it because you say the Bible is story book and you don't believe it.

 

[Agoraphobic]

I think I have said before, I never said I was an atheist. You said that. All I said was I do not believe events in the Bible as described. Logically, I cannot fathom them. (eg. Noah's Ark, the creation story in 7 days, the story of Jesus, Jonah and that whale/fish, etc.) Do I have to prove why these events did not happened as described by your Holy Book? How do I prove that I am an unbeliever? I think all I can do is not believe in them.

Cheers!

If you are asking a question within theism then you must be willing to accept a theistic answer. Are you? It would be a complete waste of time to craft a good answer based on the Bible to have you simply not even bothered to read it because you say the Bible is story book and you don't believe it.

 

[Frodo]

I think I have said before, I never said I was an atheist. You said that. All I said was I do not believe events in the Bible as described. Logically, I cannot fathom them. (eg. Noah's Ark, the creation story in 7 days, the story of Jesus, Jonah and that whale/fish, etc.) Do I have to prove why these events did not happened as described by your Holy Book? How do I prove that I am an unbeliever? I think all I can do is not believe in them.

Cheers!

I think we have already pretty much settled the part about your belief status, that you are an atheist for all intents and purposes. So long as you don’t believe there is a Creator God you are an atheist, regardless of whether you believe that the events in the Bible happened or not. Do note that it is a matter of belief here. You said that you cannot fathom them logically. Again I wonder if you know what it means to use the word “logically”. It means it comes from clear reasoning. Why then would it be illogical to state that if God exists then the events in the Bible are logically possible to have happened? BTW, I think I have mentioned it before, the creation took place in 6 days, not 7. You only need to prove or substantiate the claims that you make, giving good reasons for your beliefs. So far you just keep saying the Bible events are stories so you do not believe them. But you have not given any good reasons to say they are mere fiction stories, other than your incredulity.