Thoughts on Interactive Brokers vs Tradestation?

[johnny333]

Currently using Etrade to do simple buying/selling of US shares.

However I want to expand into trading of ETFs options, etc Heard that Tradestation offers better charts. I've only seen the TV ads for Interactive Brokers so don't know too much about them

Has anyone any opinion/experience with these 2 brokers
Which one is better for a non-US resident.? How do you like the trading platform?.....

 

[silverfox@]

Why do you choose foreign online securities? Is it because of the low commission?

 

[Charlie258]

Why do you choose foreign online securities? Is it because of the low commission?

Foreign brokers charge less than Singapore ones. All the information is there in their websites for you to compare.

 

[silverfox@]

Foreign brokers charge less than Singapore ones. All the information is there in their websites for you to compare.

The reason I asked is because foreign brokers charge much less than Sg ones, but less flexibility.

Example, you need to deposit before trading. So if you deposit 10K usd, you cannot buy more than 10K usd.

Trade dispute. I have a hard time calling one of those foreign forex securities before, that's why I am a bit skeptical when it comes to calling them if there is a dispute. They ask you for your ssn number, verification then tell you they get back to you, which they never do.

Any shares bought is deposited with the brokerage you trade. Reputation is very important which is so much more important than the commission they charge.

Local brokers charge more than foreign brokers. There is this T+3, and I can just call my local remisier. Limit not enough, i can just call him. Ease of use by opening a US account with Standard chartered bank (sg branch). transfers all in out from this bank account. Holding fee, they don't charge because already have an existing local trading account for sgx counters. Local brokerages have MAS "supervising" so not really worried that it will disappear the next day.

Just my personal opinion. But most people choose foreign brokers is because the commission is much cheaper. However I think that buying stocks regardless of US or SG or anywhere else must look long term. The commission even if a lot is negligible. People who make a lot of money from shares don't do intra-day or intra-week. They go for longer periods for investment. So I think reputation and reliability are the only things to consider. Low commission is what attracts people to sign up neglecting other factors.

 

[johnny333]

Why do you choose foreign online securities? Is it because of the low commission?

Yes, doing it through a non-Spore company is cheaper & better

I want to start trading US ETFs(exchange traded funds). I don't even know if local online services can give one access to these markets?

Although I have an Etrade account, I heard that the charts are not that as good for trading the US ETF market.

I've had my Etrade trading account long before Spore allowed the online trading of US shares. I actually 1st started trading US shares by using a broker based in Spore, but the minimum & fees were quite high. Back then I heard that MAS didn't want the "lesser mortal" Sporeans to invest overseas.

Back then I was doing low frequency trading i.e. buy & pray , so the high fees were tolerable. However I'm now looking into doing more frequent trading using options & contracts.

I'm already paying local brokers fees for holding my CPF & Malaysian shares :( In contrast, I pay nothing for Etrade to hold my US shares.

Know someone who's using a local online broker to do FOREX. Terrible spreads & slippages :( Got problems with execution of stop losses:(

If you are going to trade, might as well use a better more professional broker

 

[johnny333]

People who make a lot of money from shares don't do intra-day or intra-week. They go for longer periods for investment. So I think reputation and reliability are the only things to consider. Low commission is what attracts people to sign up neglecting other factors.

That might be changing, that's why I'm looking into short term trading in ETFs. People are finding that holding onto their shares may not be the best strategy to increase wealth.

I have made losses in my CPF unit trusts. Also had unit trusts investments with various banks with very low returns :(

I've had my Etrade account for 10+ years & it was in this market that I made money. Also made money in the Malaysian market.

 

[johnny333]

Example, you need to deposit before trading. So if you deposit 10K usd, you cannot buy more than 10K usd.

Trade dispute. I have a hard time calling one of those foreign forex securities before, that's why I am a bit skeptical when it comes to calling them if there is a dispute. They ask you for your ssn number, verification then tell you they get back to you, which they never do.

.

Many people set aside a specific amount of $$$ for investments. They are not "caught off guard" & tempted to buy on impulse. So for investors like me this is not a problem.

Brokers like Tradestation & Interactive Brokers do offer FOREX but they are ECN brokers. In other words they do not trade against you like the bucket shops. They are purely an intermediary to a trade, only making money from fees. I suspect you had problems because the "bucket shop" you used was using a trading desk to manipulate the trades.

Recently 2 brokers Gain Capital & Ikon Global were caught & fined for using software to manipulate trades.

I've never heard of "Real Broker" suddenly closing down. They get bought out & consolidated by a bigger company e.g. Ameritrade which was bought over by TD Bank, Smith Barny was bought by Citi group.

Etrade was a bank & broker. It was their banking activites that got them into trouble. They have an office in Spore so I suspect they have to satisfy MAS regulations, not that I think MAS is that great

 

[cooleo]

I use CIMB Securities. It's trading platform is quite user-friendly. Also, if you want to fuck someone upside down, can go to their office at Raffles Place.

 

[silverfox@]

Yes, doing it through a non-Spore company is cheaper & better

I want to start trading US ETFs(exchange traded funds). I don't even know if local online services can give one access to these markets?

Although I have an Etrade account, I heard that the charts are not that as good for trading the US ETF market.

I've had my Etrade trading account long before Spore allowed the online trading of US shares. I actually 1st started trading US shares by using a broker based in Spore, but the minimum & fees were quite high. Back then I heard that MAS didn't want the "lesser mortal" Sporeans to invest overseas.

Back then I was doing low frequency trading i.e. buy & pray , so the high fees were tolerable. However I'm now looking into doing more frequent trading using options & contracts.

I'm already paying local brokers fees for holding my CPF & Malaysian shares :( In contrast, I pay nothing for Etrade to hold my US shares.

Know someone who's using a local online broker to do FOREX. Terrible spreads & slippages :( Got problems with execution of stop losses:(

If you are going to trade, might as well use a better more professional broker

For ETFs I am not sure whether local brokerages offer this kind of service. For forex, what happened then was got into a trading dispute where I didn't receive my money back in account. Then you email them, call them, they say will put back and this kind of thing dragged for 3 months. And you know the moment they want to give you back the money, they want you to sign a disclosure agreement not to reveal what happened for this incident (a case like covering their own backside) Well, I just want the money back, so i signed, got the money and wired it out. A harrowing experience. It's a very helpless situation dealing with foreign rogue brokers, so now I rather deal with local ones, at least when there is a dispute, I can call up my remisier or go up to his office and bang the table.

After the failure of Lehman Bros and Bear Sterns, I start to think carefully whether do these foreign companies have any form of regulation authority regulating them at all. I know I am bit skeptical, although now I pay more in commission for local ones, at least there is a peace of mind when I sleep in the night.

 

[johnny333]

For forex, what happened then was got into a trading dispute where I didn't receive my money back in account. Then you email them, call them, they say will put back and this kind of thing dragged for 3 months. And you know the moment they want to give you back the money, they want you to sign a disclosure agreement not to reveal what happened for this incident (a case like covering their own backside) .

Why not name names so that others can avoid this bucket shop
We don't need the details of the case just the name of the company.

I used to do FOREX but after all the headaches with lousy spreads I'm now looking into ETFs options & contracts You can learn the ropes without risking too much

For FOREX there are good brokers around like Dukascopy, Interactive Brokers,..... which are ECNs with very good spreads, but the problem is they require a large outlay of funds because they don't do mini-lots. Having a good broker is not enough as you also need a good system

 

[johnny333]

I use CIMB Securities. It's trading platform is quite user-friendly. Also, if you want to fuck someone upside down, can go to their office at Raffles Place.

Which market do trade in

Looking at their fees a minimum of US$18 is charged for the US market Which is more expensive than Etrade charges which costs about US$9.99.

 

[silverfox@]

Why not name names so that others can avoid this bucket shop
We don't need the details of the case just the name of the company.

I used to do FOREX but after all the headaches with lousy spreads I'm now looking into ETFs options & contracts You can learn the ropes without risking too much

For FOREX there are good brokers around like Dukascopy, Interactive Brokers,..... which are ECNs with very good spreads, but the problem is they require a large outlay of funds because they don't do mini-lots. Having a good broker is not enough as you also need a good system

The other time I signed a disclosure and have to email back to them. One of the condition was not to reveal their company in the dispute or anywhere or even have any later recourse. See how good they are in covering their backside. That was 5 years ago. That was a bad incident, but later on, sign up with another company, but didn't make money. So only last year start to sign up Oanda to play forex, but forex is maybe not meant for me, I can't win from it, so guess I quit forex after 3 tries.

Forex if you play small it's a bit like wasting time, if you play big, expose your money to quite a lot of risks. Especially when you can't do much fundamental analysis on them and most of the market trainers these days are using technical analysis to teach people how to play forex which I think works for some but not for most.

So now I just stick to 2. SG and US stocks. Buy them when its low and wait for them to grow:o

 

[silverfox@]

Which market do trade in

Looking at their fees a minimum of US$18 is charged for the US market Which is more expensive than Etrade charges which costs about US$9.99.

I am using UOBkayhian, As I have been using UOBkH to trade SGX counters. fees are more expensive but I don't do intra-day or intra-week, so the commission part not a very big concern

 

[chuckyworld]

http://www.tdwaterhouse.ca/discountbrokerage/index.jsp

TDwaterhouse flat fee comm is 9 dollar per trade (need to have 100k in your porfolio). anything under that would be 29 dollars per trade.

 

[cooleo]

Which market do trade in

Looking at their fees a minimum of US$18 is charged for the US market Which is more expensive than Etrade charges which costs about US$9.99.

I trade NYSE mainly and NASDAQ at times. Aiya for me, save the few dollars won't make me so much richer la. Etrade abit troublesome right? Need to deposit money into a U.S account first. For CIMB, I can write a cheque or even settle by ATM. So at least I know I won't anyhow get screwed.

 

[johnny333]

So only last year start to sign up Oanda to play forex, but forex is maybe not meant for me, I can't win from it, so guess I quit forex after 3 tries.

Forex if you play small it's a bit like wasting time, if you play big, expose your money to quite a lot of risks. Especially when you can't do much fundamental analysis on them and most of the market trainers these days are using technical analysis to teach people how to play forex which I think works for some but not for most.

So now I just stick to 2. SG and US stocks. Buy them when its low and wait for them to grow:o

Oanda is quite good. I read somewhere that it has one of the highest percentage of successful traders.

Know someone who was using sentiment to predict market direction. Used to be successful until the current turmoil. I think people are turning to TA because the market nowadays is too unpredictable. With TA you are simply following price action.

In Forex if you can grab 10 pips a day you can double your account in 2 months. Unfortunately it's too exciting & many will overtade even when they've got their 10 pips.

I'm looking into trading options & contracts because of the lower risk & cash requirement. I just want to make some pocket money

 

[johnny333]

I trade NYSE mainly and NASDAQ at times. Aiya for me, save the few dollars won't make me so much richer la. Etrade abit troublesome right? Need to deposit money into a U.S account first. For CIMB, I can write a cheque or even settle by ATM. So at least I know I won't anyhow get screwed.

Initially you do have to go through the hassle of opening and funding the account. It's worked for me because it made it harder to take money out, so I've left my US investments alone & it's grown

The important thing is to take the 1st steps to opening an account. Know many people who have talked about investing but never took the necessary steps of opening an account & now regret because prices are at record levels.

 

[silverfox@]

Oanda is quite good. I read somewhere that it has one of the highest percentage of successful traders.

Know someone who was using sentiment to predict market direction. Used to be successful until the current turmoil. I think people are turning to TA because the market nowadays is too unpredictable. With TA you are simply following price action.

In Forex if you can grab 10 pips a day you can double your account in 2 months. Unfortunately it's too exciting & many will overtade even when they've got their 10 pips.

I'm looking into trading options & contracts because of the lower risk & cash requirement. I just want to make some pocket money

1 thing I like about Oanda is they actually called you up when you sign up for their account. And they have a office in sg. Spreads are reasonable.
Forex can be quite volatile for me, my preference is in long term, so I like reading up on fundamentals of companies, their future direction and that is how I decide whether to invest in buying their shares. Technical Analysis can be quite dangerous as even my remisier told me the share market is made up with people aka syndicate style. The news we get are often 3rd or 4th hand. So if there is any bread crumbs left, we should be glad, worst is we become the bread for others to munch. So fundamental studying can let us have a clearer picture on what kind of companies we invest our money in.

Options have a time period right? For me I don't quite like to chase against time. :o

 

[blueblobster]

Brokers like Tradestation & Interactive Brokers do offer FOREX but they are ECN brokers. In other words they do not trade against you like the bucket shops. They are purely an intermediary to a trade, only making money from fees. I suspect you had problems because the "bucket shop" you used was using a trading desk to manipulate the trades.

It's a myth that ALL brokers who trade against you are bucket shops or dishonest. This stems from a common misunderstanding about how the market works.

Even in ECN, there is an ultimate liquidity provider/ market maker. A trade cannot be passed around/ hedged forever among brokers or banks. Sooner or later, a party has to take the opposite side of your trade (i.e. trade against you). Liquidity in OTC markets are market maker driven. No matter which broker you use, you cannot avoid your trade being "traded against".

There is another common misconception that ECN opens the trader to the interbank. It is not. The trader is still one step behind. Also, do note that not all market makers in ECN are banks. Big brokers do act as market makers for smaller brokers as well. It all depends on the product the broker is offering. Sometimes, if big market makers cannot be found for exotic products and the volume from the client is high, the smaller brokers will throw the positions to the exchanges (ie. hedge with futures contracts) which naturally incur higher transaction costs. Which is why ALL ECN brokers charge a commission.

I know a few honest brokers. The CEO of one of them told me frankly that there is no need to play dirty tricks to spoil your reputation. If clients win, fair game to them. The market being so unforgiving, most traders, including the big winners, will eventually lose. From brokers' statistics, only 5 - 10% are CONSISTENTLY winners. I have personally seen the trading accounts of some "gurus" and their "star students". Needless to say, none make money.

For the clients who are consistent winners, an honest broker will simply hedge all the trades with another market trader if the broker does not want to trade against them. Only the dishonest ones will play dirty tricks. Responsible brokers will also hedge out the trades if they have already reach a certain threshold of trades held.

There are certainly many dishonest brokers, even among those capital market license brokers in SG. Heard of many horror stories from clients. But it's definitely not true that all FX brokers who trade against you are crooks. The nature of OTC markets dictates that someone has to trade against you eventually.

If you want a fairer, more transparent game, trade the currency futures instead.

Cheers.

 

[blueblobster]

1 thing I like about Oanda is they actually called you up when you sign up for their account. And they have a office in sg. Spreads are reasonable.

Options have a time period right? For me I don't quite like to chase against time. :o

I'm not referring to Oanda. But be very careful of brokers who offer very tight spreads. Most will try to make money via slippages to compensate for the tight spreads. Also for very small spreads, this is a sure sign the broker is trading against you. Why? Because at such small spreads, it is hard for them to be able to find a market maker to hedge their trades.

If you don't like chasing time, let them chase you. Sell options instead. Let time work in your favour.