The War on Drugs is a War against the Minorities and the Poor - agree or disagree?

[Kinana]

Re: The War on Drugs is a War against the Minorities and the Poor - agree or disagree

Coca leaf and cocaine is very different.
Cocaine is terrible and so are the effects of opium. Remember what opium did to our ancestors?
Ganja is much milder and I believe non addictive. Thats where I draw the line.

I believe if ganja is legal, there won't be a market for hard drugs.

 

[mollusk]

Re: The War on Drugs is a War against the Minorities and the Poor - agree or disagree

Coca leaf and cocaine is very different.
Cocaine is terrible and so are the effects of opium. Remember what opium did to our ancestors?
Ganja is much milder and I believe non addictive. Thats where I draw the line.

I believe if ganja is legal, there won't be a market for hard drugs.

didn't know you smoke ganja too...

 

[mscitw]

Re: The War on Drugs is a War against the Minorities and the Poor - agree or disagree

Coca leaf and cocaine is very different.
Cocaine is terrible and so are the effects of opium. Remember what opium did to our ancestors?
Ganja is much milder and I believe non addictive. Thats where I draw the line.

I believe if ganja is legal, there won't be a market for hard drugs.

Appears to be a paragraph taken from some Commie PRC history textbook. If you allow Kinana to go further, he will tell you the crimes of the Nihon swines during WWII and end it with a 'Victory to Mao' series of slogans before heading to a seedy KTV joint to make love to centipedes. That is how a typical hypocrite behaves, telling other peasants to swear loyalty and die for Ruler Loong but you will never see Kinana digging any trench or standing under hot sun to welcome Ang Moh VIPs in Queenstown.....

How about the opiates of the masses Kinana? Want to google that huh?

 

[Agoraphobic]

Re: The War on Drugs is a War against the Minorities and the Poor - agree or disagree

In the example you have given about those ASEAN dignitaries kids being let off well it has nothing to do with the subject here which is talking about minorities being targeted due to drug charges. The US example you have given is also not accurate. Bush and his sorry of people are very high up. You should have used an ordinary white kid vs an unknown colored man. Or an ordinary Chinese Singaporean vs a Singaporean minority. Chances are both this ordinary white person and the Chinese Singaporean who took drugs would have suffered the same punishment as anyone else with no power that took drugs. Consequently if it was a minority with power that took drugs he would have gotten a lighter punishment. There was this Indian guy who was the son of some judge in Singapore and he got a lighter sentence or was totally let off.

Come on the war on drugs does not target minorities all because somehow it seems that more of them take drugs and then somehow tries to push the blame unto society.
Unless it can be proven that a minority of the same social standing as someone from the majority gets a stiffer sentence then can it be proven that out does pick on minorities. So far i seen Chinese drug addicts get the same sentencing.

Maybe the examples I have given may not be a good representative of the case being argued here, but they are the examples that crossed my mind when I logged in to respond. Ok, one that comes to my mind now is a case of heroin smuggling that took place in the early eighties. Two buddies, one chinese (my ex-neighbour) and his malay friend, both young and brave then, I think 21 yrs old were caught carrying a large amount of white powder across the causeway (so that they can share with kaki, not for profit). Both were facing the death sentence. The Chinese guy's dad went to speak to an MP (or minister, don't know) who used to patronise his food stall. So the MP intervened and his son's charge was reduced to "addict" and sent for rehab rather than "trafficker." His other partner was sent to the gallows. Connections and influence make a difference in life, in any field.

In my many posts in this forum, by taking a light view of drugs in no way means I am for drug use. I am just totally in disagreement with the harsh and punitive treatment the authorities take when dealing with what normal and possibly hardworking folk with good values get caught doing what is considered normal behaviour in many social circles. To end up with a police record and be jailed for one night of partying or relaxation is very harsh and absolutely not right in a civlized country.

Cheers!

 

[Agoraphobic]

Re: The War on Drugs is a War against the Minorities and the Poor - agree or disagree

Thats too much.
Once you legalise ganja which is a soft drug, there won't be demand for the other stuff at all.
Why go for cociane or heroin when you can get the same thing much cheaper and safer?

Ganja is a dried part oof the hemp plant. No tefchnology or sophisticated process is needed to make it ready to smoke to get high. Whereas cocaine and heroin requires a considerable amount of knowledge and effort to make it potent. If the legalisation process ends at the naturally grown plant, it is quite safe for the public. The Andean Indians chew coca leaves and it helps them with physical activity at high altitudes. And I'm sure the ancient asiatic peoples had medical use for opium sap (I understand rickshaw pullers smoked the stuff to ease themselves of the muscular pains from their daily toil).

Cheers!

 

[Agoraphobic]

Re: The War on Drugs is a War against the Minorities and the Poor - agree or disagree

didn't know you smoke ganja too...

I found out that LOT's of people smoke the shit. Damn, during BMT, one night some recruit lit a joint when he thought evryone was asleep, shit nearly half the platoon smelled the grass and came out from their bunker beds hoping to score a hit! I am very appreciative that no one spoke a word about it after that. AND it wasn't just malays (there was only one in my BMT platoon), but chinese, indians, eurasians, and even one singhalese.

Cheers!

 

[Mikeferdy]

Re: The War on Drugs is a War against the Minorities and the Poor - agree or disagree

Coca leaf and cocaine is very different.
Cocaine is terrible and so are the effects of opium. Remember what opium did to our ancestors?
Ganja is much milder and I believe non addictive. Thats where I draw the line.

I believe if ganja is legal, there won't be a market for hard drugs.

Coca Leaf is the same and different from Cocaine. Cocaine is simply the pure concentrated form of Coca Leaf which is also illegal. If they legalize Coca Leaf, there will not be a need to sell cocaine.

Opium is actually a very complicated history. Have you ever wondered why the Opium "scourge" only occured in China in the 1800's? I mean opium is all over the world from India to the Middle east but China is the most famous. Why?

Reading the historical text is very subjective because of historical bias. The Chinese scholars who wrote history probably have a biasness against opium usage and when Opium spread into the western world, where white people are quite racist, they banned opium not because it was dangerous but because Chinese people were using it.

There is a high possibility that Opium became a problem because the Emperor created Opium prohibition. Causing Opium prices to soar, Opium users became criminals and eventually a Drug/Opium war with the Drug lords/British, not because of the Opium itself. Other cultures back then used Opium with relatively no problem.

And all those photos of opium dens are probably propaganda by taking pictures of the opium users at their worse. Just like if we took picture of drunks.

 

[Mikeferdy]

Re: The War on Drugs is a War against the Minorities and the Poor - agree or disagree

But yea, legalizing Cannabis would be an excelent step forward.

Criminalizing cannabis is probably the stupidest law ever created by man. Unlike all the other drugs I mentioned earlier, Cannabis is actually HEALTHY for you.

All other substances like alcohol, Opiates, Caffeine, etc are all foreign substances. The body takes it in and try to get rid of it within 24hrs, longest 3 days. Which is why if you take heroin, you will not be able to detect it after 2 or 3 days.

But Cannabinoids are a part of the human body. We create our own cannabis in our bodies through our endocannabinoid system. Our body likes cannabis and will not try to get rid of it. Cannabinoids are actually stored in our fatty system to be slowly used just like any other vitamins or minerals. Which is why Cannabis can stay in the system for up to 3 weeks, possibly longer.

 

[moolightaffairs]

Re: The War on Drugs is a War against the Minorities and the Poor - agree or disagree

drfiter! yo ho! where are you???

 

[Dreamer1]

Re: The War on Drugs is a War against the Minorities and the Poor - agree or disagree

What war?it is for show.Singapore leaders are in love with drug lords,their leegalised money of course.
The Axis
Singapore: Burma-Singapore Axis: Globalising the Heroin Trade
www.singapore-window.org/804caq9.htm

 

[Leongsam]

Re: The War on Drugs is a War against the Minorities and the Poor - agree or disagree

I believe we should legalize all drugs because as long as you ban something in demand, a black market will form around it...

I think that's a great idea. The whites won't have to pay the Chinese for their labour anymore. Just go back to plying them with opium and they'll work for free.

It'll solve the balance of payments problems the West are having in no time at all.

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

Re: The War on Drugs is a War against the Minorities and the Poor - agree or disagree

Maybe the examples I have given may not be a good representative of the case being argued here, but they are the examples that crossed my mind when I logged in to respond. Ok, one that comes to my mind now is a case of heroin smuggling that took place in the early eighties. Two buddies, one chinese (my ex-neighbour) and his malay friend, both young and brave then, I think 21 yrs old were caught carrying a large amount of white powder across the causeway (so that they can share with kaki, not for profit). Both were facing the death sentence. The Chinese guy's dad went to speak to an MP (or minister, don't know) who used to patronise his food stall. So the MP intervened and his son's charge was reduced to "addict" and sent for rehab rather than "trafficker." His other partner was sent to the gallows. Connections and influence make a difference in life, in any field.

In my many posts in this forum, by taking a light view of drugs in no way means I am for drug use. I am just totally in disagreement with the harsh and punitive treatment the authorities take when dealing with what normal and possibly hardworking folk with good values get caught doing what is considered normal behaviour in many social circles. To end up with a police record and be jailed for one night of partying or relaxation is very harsh and absolutely not right in a civlized country.

Cheers!

Well there you have it. Then let's ignore all of that and go back to the premise of your argument. You were arguing that the war on drugs targets minorities and i disagreed and mentioned that any singaporean of any race would most likely get the same sentence. You gave me a story whereby this chinese singaporean gets let off but that's because his dad knew an mp that intervened and not because he's a chinese but you somehow try to give the impression that it was him being chinese that was let off because you used this story as an example when it was clearly because his dad knew an mp. If the malay guy's dad knew an mp i am sure he would have been let off if the mp decided to help.

I don't know why you would consider taking drugs as normal behavior and juxtapose that sort of behavior committed by hardworking folk that have good values. There are many types of drugs to take FYI. Some of them aren't illegal. Glue sniffing, cough mixture, tablets for headaches even. I don't think any decent folk would consider taking such substances as normal. Comeon you shouldn't try to lead the readers that decent hard working and good people take drugs. I am sure the majority of drug addicts might be criminals or come from broken homes or have something wrong with them.

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

Re: The War on Drugs is a War against the Minorities and the Poor - agree or disagree

And finally (5) the drug consumers. This is where it gets interesting. Drug consumers can virtually be anyone who have been exposed or understands about drugs. The higher educated people, like the ASEAN deligates mentioned earlier, usually prefer mild drugs like Cannabis, MDMA, LSD or mild doses of meth. They are careful not to reveal their addiction and usually have the power to cover everything up if they have been found. Some goes on drug tours into countries like Amsterdam or Thailand just to try things out.

The rest are made up of vulnerable people, people who are easily influenced like the youth, the school drop out, the unemployed, the "gang" members, etc. Just like how most people started to smoke, are usually influenced by peer pressure to try out drugs and more often than not, they are lured into hard drugs rather than recreational drugs because of their lack of knowledge. And these group of people are always minority groups in any society, it doesn't have to be racial minority but a minority group non the less. In Singapore, its the Malays, in America, it is the African american and hispanics.

I am not saying that the Singapore government intentionally attack Malays, but the original war on drugs commission by Presiden Nixon was designed to supress the african american community. We just copy and paste the american's war on drugs and the same effects happens here.

And if you want to do personal attacks, please be reminded that I did not create this report. This is report made by Al Jazeera
http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/insidestoryus2012/2012/08/2012823103039675592.html

I just realize that what ever is happening in Myanmar, Thailand, Malaysia and Singapore is an amost exact mirror image of what is happening in Colombia, Mexico and the United States.

Argument sounds invalid. Calling these people are vunerable because they are easily influenced. Lack of knowledge isn't an excuse. Give you an example. Let's say someone touches a girl and is geniunely ignorant he cannot do that can he tell that to the judge to get a lighter sentence? Yes there are many minorities that doesn't touch on racial lines. Say you're a fan of some east european shit music you are definitely a minority in that respect. You won't get much help or support compared to the korean k-pop fan.

Anyway back to the issue at hand. Let's leave aside the US situation and just focus on the SG situation at hand. Drug addicts don't just consist of malays. There are indian, chinese and other groups that take these drugs. All of them suffer the same penalties that malay drug addicts get. Unless you beg to differ and say that chinese drug addicts get lighter sentencing compared to the malay ones. There are many vunerable chinese youth that succumb to peer pressure, are unemployed and in gangs.

Your argument that this supposed war on drugs is used to target minorities in singapore would have been better if football was the subject instead of drug addiction.

It's as simple as this in singapore. You don't want to get arrested for drug possession don't take drugs. Period. You want to take drugs sure fine go ahead but don't cry when you get arrested do your time and punishment like a man if you get caught.

Perhaps we could apply your argument to say sexually transmitted diseases. Those damn AIDS and VD viruses are targetting us poor minorities that love to have sex with whores or strangers.

 

[Agoraphobic]

Re: The War on Drugs is a War against the Minorities and the Poor - agree or disagree

Well there you have it. Then let's ignore all of that and go back to the premise of your argument. You were arguing that the war on drugs targets minorities and i disagreed and mentioned that any singaporean of any race would most likely get the same sentence. You gave me a story whereby this chinese singaporean gets let off but that's because his dad knew an mp that intervened and not because he's a chinese but you somehow try to give the impression that it was him being chinese that was let off because you used this story as an example when it was clearly because his dad knew an mp. If the malay guy's dad knew an mp i am sure he would have been let off if the mp decided to help.

I don't know why you would consider taking drugs as normal behavior and juxtapose that sort of behavior committed by hardworking folk that have good values. There are many types of drugs to take FYI. Some of them aren't illegal. Glue sniffing, cough mixture, tablets for headaches even. I don't think any decent folk would consider taking such substances as normal. Comeon you shouldn't try to lead the readers that decent hard working and good people take drugs. I am sure the majority of drug addicts might be criminals or come from broken homes or have something wrong with them.

Jah, not just drugs but in every issue, the lower classes are more prone to be caught by the law and have less access to means of getting out of trouble. Besides, who are more likely to get into the clutches of the darker side of organized crime, low income classes of educated middle classes? Picture in your mind street gang in North America cities - who are the likelier members? White middle classes or Afro-American/Hispanics from blue-collar led families? I am not saying society stereotypes them according to ethnic groups, but the nature of capitalist societies is such. Got money, spend your weekends at country clubs, no money, spend your time hanging out with the neighourhood kids.

As far as I see it, from junior high school to young working adults (14 yrs ~ 23 yrs), recreational drugs is a regular and regular activity in North America, and some groups in other parts of the world. Glue (and other solvent) sniffing are for those who do not have access to good pot and are looking for a cheap way to get high. And according to the sociology class I attended, it is not drugs users who become criminals but criminals and other deviant types are drawn towards drugs because of their inherent anti-establishment tendencies.

Cheers!

 

[applejuice]

Re: The War on Drugs is a War against the Minorities and the Poor - agree or disagree

How can I agree with your statement?

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

Re: The War on Drugs is a War against the Minorities and the Poor - agree or disagree

Jah, not just drugs but in every issue, the lower classes are more prone to be caught by the law and have less access to means of getting out of trouble. Besides, who are more likely to get into the clutches of the darker side of organized crime, low income classes of educated middle classes? Picture in your mind street gang in North America cities - who are the likelier members? White middle classes or Afro-American/Hispanics from blue-collar led families? I am not saying society stereotypes them according to ethnic groups, but the nature of capitalist societies is such. Got money, spend your weekends at country clubs, no money, spend your time hanging out with the neighourhood kids.

As far as I see it, from junior high school to young working adults (14 yrs ~ 23 yrs), recreational drugs is a regular and regular activity in North America, and some groups in other parts of the world. Glue (and other solvent) sniffing are for those who do not have access to good pot and are looking for a cheap way to get high. And according to the sociology class I attended, it is not drugs users who become criminals but criminals and other deviant types are drawn towards drugs because of their inherent anti-establishment tendencies.

Cheers!

Well then your subject matter is totally different from the subject matter here at hand. You should start a different thread. You are correct that if you are poor you have lesser means of getting out of trouble cos of the lack of money. That is correct. It's the same in every part of the world. That's why if you are poor you shouldn't try to get into trouble correct?

Being poor is no excuse for joining gangs, doing crime and drugs and then somehow blaming society for it when you are caught.


Yeah i noticed many americans do smoke weed and not just the poor. If they are caught they risk being jailed.

 

[kongkek]

Re: The War on Drugs is a War against the Minorities and the Poor - agree or disagree

I believe we should legalize all drugs because as long as you ban something in demand, a black market will form around it... Don't even get me started on how criminalizing prostitution leads to human trafficking...

sir this is not the solution

 

[syed putra]

Re: The War on Drugs is a War against the Minorities and the Poor - agree or disagree

Actually not only drugs.
Most of those caught and prosecuted doing criminal activities are from the poor and destitute who got no money to hire big shot lawyers to defend them.
those with money have many options to escape the long arms of the law.

 

[Agoraphobic]

Re: The War on Drugs is a War against the Minorities and the Poor - agree or disagree

Well then your subject matter is totally different from the subject matter here at hand. You should start a different thread. You are correct that if you are poor you have lesser means of getting out of trouble cos of the lack of money. That is correct. It's the same in every part of the world. That's why if you are poor you shouldn't try to get into trouble correct?

Being poor is no excuse for joining gangs, doing crime and drugs and then somehow blaming society for it when you are caught.


Yeah i noticed many americans do smoke weed and not just the poor. If they are caught they risk being jailed.

For the poor, crime offers a way out of situation they're in. And with drugs means lower starting capital too. Anyways, my stance is not this rich/poor thing but the unnecessary tough stance on drug "offenders."

Poverty is the main driving factor for most crimes, gangland or individual. Whoever one blames or not is not my concern. Sometimes people get into bad situations because of bravado, not because of money.

So would they jail a 14 yr old kid for smoking weed? This punishment for weed is totally out of sync with the times. Society should move on. If people have the chance or opportunity to do something constructive or meaningful in their lives, they would not waste it on drugs, and perhaps thats the question for marijuana - it does not lay to waste the user (unless that person spends more than half his awake hours on it), you come back to yourself after the effect wears off. If a person was motivated by sports, academics, misic, or some other creative works - time spent stoned on pot would only be a fraction of one's time. Marijuana should be legalized! Saves people from jail, and the nation's money and resources.

Cheers!

 

[Mikeferdy]

Re: The War on Drugs is a War against the Minorities and the Poor - agree or disagree

I think arguing with Jah would be hard because he/she seems to have a "just follow law" mentality. "You know it's agaist the law, just don't do it."

The thing is, life is not like that. Chewing gum is banned in Singapore but I still smuggle them in from time to time. Illegal parking is illegal but people do it anyway. Riding on the front seat of a car without a seat belt is illegal but people do it anyway. Gay sex is a punishable offence in Singapore but gays still have sex among themselves.

What has this anything to do with drugs? The key point here is morality and "victimless crimes."

People have different moral standards, that is simply the fact of life. For a muslim, drinking is a terrible sin but for others, it is just another beverage. For some, illegal parking as long as it does bother anyone shouldn't be punishable, but to others, immidiate stomp and call police.

Drugs is first and formost a moral issue. Some people think drugs are immoral. But the thing is, "drugs" have been a part of life since forever. If someone is truly morally against drugs, then we should ban alcohol, tobacco, caffeine and HFCS as well. People should wake up and realize that enforcing morality is never a good idea. It creates hypocracy and unnecessary crime when people don't share the same moral code.

Secondly, drugs are in essence a "victimless crime". It is between a willing buyer and a willing seller. No one is a victim. Then people will argue about drugs affect people around you. But here's the catch. Alcohol has the same effect. Some families are ruined because of alcoholism. But instead of focusing on banning alcohol, we treat each cases individually. We don't come to the conclusion alcohol use = alcoholism = violence. We have alcohol regulation and we don't bother about people who use alchol responsibly.


Now that being said, below is one of the reason why most drug offenders that are jailed are the poor and minority.

[video=youtube;lHw6KQ6rcak]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHw6KQ6rcak[/video]

Epic and expensive legal team is epic.