The PAP's Aljunied dilemma By ST Rachael Chang Published on Dec 20, 2011

[Thick Face Black Heart]

why wun they used that GRC to get rid of people they wan to get rid like how they get5 rid of George Yeo...

will the 5 newbies wan to be in GRC with no leader at all ???

how is PAP goin to attract talent like that ?

The whole electoral business has been upside down for over 20 years. In the first place, in any healthy society you should be able to find at least some good men and women who would be willing to serve out of a sense of community and loyalty to fellow brethren, not simply out of a pure desire for political office or for remuneration.

If the PAP admits that it will be hard to field good people in Aljunied, they are basically shooting their own foot and admitting something is gravely wrong, if not with society as a whole, then with themselves!

In a real democracy, the ruling party does not find it hard to attract talent simply because it has lost a whopping 7% of the seats (even whilst maintaining 60.1% of the popular vote), nor does it take the opposition 50 bloody years to contest all wards. Shenanigans like NMPs and NCMPs only prove how rotten and manipulated the system is. The very fact that we are discussing how PAP may try to contain the Aljunied threat is further nail in the coffin.

I think people here have resigned to the fact that PAP will be fielding sacrificial lambs/newbies in Aljunied just to make up the numbers. Well that's plain rotten if you view it from a larger perspective and its eggs in their faces if they really do so.

In fact such a move may even backfire in terms of internal party morale, as clearly party cadres will be able to see what is happening.

 

[scroobal]

Concise and well articulated.

The whole electoral business has been upside down for over 20 years. In the first place, in any healthy society you should be able to find at least some good men and women who would be willing to serve out of a sense of community and loyalty to fellow brethren, not simply out of a pure desire for political office or for remuneration. If the PAP admits that it will be hard to field good people in Aljunied, they are basically shooting their own foot and admitting something is gravely wrong, if not with society as a whole, then with themselves!In fact such a move may even backfire in terms of internal party morale, as clearly party cadres will be able to see what is happening.

 

[Perspective]

why wun they used that GRC to get rid of people they wan to get rid like how they get5 rid of George Yeo...

will the 5 newbies wan to be in GRC with no leader at all ???

how is PAP goin to attract talent like that ?

Let me explain. 3 out of 5 in Aljunied has retired from politics - George, Lim, Zainul. There is 2 left. I am sure PAP will try to get Cynthia to lead the team, but it is unlikely she will agree. Ong Ye Kung is meant for something higher, not the likes of Eric, Sitoh or even Andy Gan.

So why does the 2 still stay on as advisors? Ong hasn't even served a single term - pulling out now would only reflect badly not only by the people but even the PAP who will think twice about fielding such a person as a candidate anywhere. It is also that he can claim serving in grassroots for 5 years before 2016. Unlike the 3 who has no intention to run in another ward like Tang Guan Seng, that's why they openly cut ties. As for Cynthia, she is staying on to wait for next opportunity, whether as next Tang GS to be transferred elsewhere or town council manager job. And given that she is going overseas for studies, resigning from grassroots or not makes no difference. However PAP is unlikely to field her again although the second option of a TC job might be fulfilled.

So what will happen if it is 5 newbies? One of them will be touted to have higher profile and this person will be team leader. I beilieve that team leader and perhaps one other will be the kind that PAP will only leave there for a term, being young, bring them in one term earlier, let them lose and be humbled by the next following GE. By doing so, they are turning weakness into strength - since already lost Aljunied, use that as a slamming ground (PAP knows humility is one issue they have to struggle with their candidates). However, the team leader will not the minister type but will be backbencher.

As for the rest of the 3-4, they will be the Erics and Sitohs, always ready to be sacrificed and if grow old like Eric, be retired, but if lucky like Sitoh (which is unlikely soon), then become MP also. Maybe more will be moved elsewhere after losing 2 or 3 elections as reward.

GRC can never be a place to get rid of people. A PAP MP transferred there can always have the option of not contesting anymore and retiring, which they are more likely to do so. George was never put there to be rid of - he has always been incumbent in the place and leaving would look bad. Ministerial transfers are rare and Lim Swee Say was transferred only on the pretext that his ward "walkovered" the last round. George is "unlucky" in the sense that 10 years ago in 2001, WP had set its sights there and started walking and contesting and walking and contesting with the eventual aim of nabbing the place.

 

[Perspective]

Png and Gerald are not the same level as CSM, LTK, and SL.... and Tharman will be next PM

There is no certainty that the WP team in East Coast will remain the same. In my own view, only GG will be retained in East Coast and Yee JJ will join the team. Two NCMPs in one team. The other 3, apart from Eric Tan who has left, will be transferred elsewhere. Do not forget that the Aljunied team, only LTK and Sylvia were the regulars. The other 3 were not even CEC members except Faisal, and even Faisal was not a seasoned CEC member. The key people in WP like Rahizan, Eric, Li Lian, Choong Yong were all sent elsewhere to lead GRC teams or in SMCs instead of them joining Aljunied.

That is why people are confused when it comes to describing WP as having spread its talent (like NSP) or consolidating their talent in one place since people like CSM and Pritam shined. Depends on what you mean by talent.

East Coast likely to pull another CSM strong card. Who the person is I don't know, but just to get one of this type is no longer difficult. Hence, if Tharman wants to risk it, up to him.

Ong Ye Kung can get into cabinet @ 52 no problem ..... I think he wan to be in ALjunied,...... never underestimate an ego of a politician .... look @ GMS, TJS and KJ

Ego means different results to different people. If a person likes to make friends, it might be due to ego. If another person intentionally acts stuck up and becomes hard to make friends, can also be due to ego. Both opposite actions and results, but both due to ego. Ong need not act like KJ or TJS - winning a seat is the ego trip, not being a leader of some entity.

 

[brocoli]

If the PAP admits that it will be hard to field good people in Aljunied, they are basically shooting their own foot and admitting something is gravely wrong, if not with society as a whole, then with themselves!

I think people here have resigned to the fact that PAP will be fielding sacrificial lambs/newbies in Aljunied just to make up the numbers. Well that's plain rotten if you view it from a larger perspective and its eggs in their faces if they really do so.

In fact such a move may even backfire in terms of internal party morale, as clearly party cadres will be able to see what is happening.

Zainul already admit its hard to find people,.... I think they will make effort to win back aljunied.... 5 newbies is same as walkover .... might as well dun field.... Opp should not be complacent.... PAP is not dumb fark ... If they field 5 newbies.... CSM, SL, LTK will goto east coast to canvas for votes... please remember that Goh, LKY invented the art of gaming the electoral system.....

Yes maybe Ong Ye Kung is too important to be sacrfiied again .... although I failed to see how goot he is beyond the facvt thtat he is an ex-barisan MP son
I never believe ST when they say Aljunied will have 5 new newbies... its too good to be true...
Asking Teo Ser Fuck and Charles Chong to go advise Aljunied now, I dun think is for show....Charles Chong is too old .... Teo Ser Fuck is fairly credible ... he is already MOS..... given the lack of paucity of talent, there is chance he can nabbed a full Minister position... but not by hiding under Teo CH skirt..... @ the very least they will send Teo Ser Fuck to a SMC..... he wun be in Pasir Ris

Let me explain. 3 out of 5 in Aljunied has retired from politics - George, Lim, Zainul. There is 2 left. I am sure PAP will try to get Cynthia to lead the team, but it is unlikely she will agree. Ong Ye Kung is meant for something higher, not the likes of Eric, Sitoh or even Andy Gan.

So why does the 2 still stay on as advisors? Ong hasn't even served a single term - pulling out now would only reflect badly not only by the people but even the PAP who will think twice about fielding such a person as a candidate anywhere. It is also that he can claim serving in grassroots for 5 years before 2016. Unlike the 3 who has no intention to run in another ward like Tang Guan Seng, that's why they openly cut ties. As for Cynthia, she is staying on to wait for next opportunity, whether as next Tang GS to be transferred elsewhere or town council manager job. And given that she is going overseas for studies, resigning from grassroots or not makes no difference. However PAP is unlikely to field her again although the second option of a TC job might be fulfilled.

Cynthia just came back from Harvard, is she goin to study again?

East Coast likely to pull another CSM strong card. Who the person is I don't know, but just to get one of this type is no longer difficult. Hence, if Tharman wants to risk it, up to him.

there is only 1 CSM, I think they may be able to find some 1 much stronger than Gerald and Pritam but not CSM level? the only person with better credential than CSM is William Jefferson Clinton......

 

[Perspective]

Cynthia just came back from Harvard, is she goin to study again?

there is only 1 CSM, I think they may be able to find some 1 much stronger than Gerald and Pritam but not CSM level? the only person with better credential than CSM is William Jefferson Clinton......

I think it is only a holiday break for Cynthia because she was going for a year or two, as I remember.

I think CSM's credentials are only in the legal fraternity - there is not such thing as an absolute worldwide credential. In my view, WP already had a credible career man in 2006 - Tan Wui Hua - except in the finance sector. Looking at his background, it already surpassed all in the team - Sylvia, Rahizan, Gomez etc. - and LTK himself. For various reasons back in 2006 - political climate, media coverage, charisma, level of credential in respective fields, Gomez issue etc. - Tan was not carried to the level of CSM in 2011.

 

[willpower]

Well said! LIKE!

 

[kingrant]

PAP is facing its biggest challenge over the loss of Aljunied GRC. The question is whether the slide down the slippery slope has begun or they can pull back from the abyss. I dont think the slippery slope view may materialise as Singaporeans will want to deal with the devil they know than with the devil they dont. Notwithstanding, Aljunied will be lost to the WP for at least 2 more GEs and the PAP has to live with that. I don't see the PAP having an effective strategy to deal with that. What they can do is, as some have already said, use proxies as spoilers in 3-corner fights. But bear in mind, this is a GRC not an SMC, so finding willing fallguys credible enough to make a diff is itself a problem.

I think people here have resigned to the fact that PAP will be fielding sacrificial lambs/newbies in Aljunied just to make up the numbers. Well that's plain rotten if you view it from a larger perspective and its eggs in their faces if they really do so.

 

[3_M]

The whole electoral business has been upside down for over 20 years. In the first place, in any healthy society you should be able to find at least some good men and women who would be willing to serve out of a sense of community and loyalty to fellow brethren, not simply out of a pure desire for political office or for remuneration.

If the PAP admits that it will be hard to field good people in Aljunied, they are basically shooting their own foot and admitting something is gravely wrong, if not with society as a whole, then with themselves!

In a real democracy, the ruling party does not find it hard to attract talent simply because it has lost a whopping 7% of the seats (even whilst maintaining 60.1% of the popular vote), nor does it take the opposition 50 bloody years to contest all wards. Shenanigans like NMPs and NCMPs only prove how rotten and manipulated the system is. The very fact that we are discussing how PAP may try to contain the Aljunied threat is further nail in the coffin.

To PAP candidates entering politics is just an career advancement or an avenue to raise their public profile rather than a call of duty. If oppositions were to gain more ground in future, then going into politics will no longer be seen as a risk free venture and PAP will face a much tougher time recruiting candidates.

 

[TracyTan866]

To PAP candidates entering politics is just an career advancement or an avenue to raise their public profile rather than a call of duty. If oppositions were to gain more ground in future, then going into politics will no longer be seen as a risk free venture and PAP will face a much tougher time recruiting candidates.

Yes, the pap will, from now onwards, find it harder to recruit its candidates

 

[ChaoPappyPoodle]

To PAP candidates entering politics is just an career advancement or an avenue to raise their public profile rather than a call of duty. If oppositions were to gain more ground in future, then going into politics will no longer be seen as a risk free venture and PAP will face a much tougher time recruiting candidates.

PAP is like a football team that imprisoned its opponent's best players. PAP is like a football team that has the extra egg when a referee can't decide completely on making a decision. The PAP is like a football team that has been playing games with the game such that players do not want to play for them.

There is no honour in winning and there is certainly no honour in being part of an organization that does everything unsportsmanlike to win.

They have run their course on moral ground. In doing so, they have alienated themselves from a large pool of bright, socially responsible citizens. All that they can attract are the power mongers and the bottom of the barrel types. The PAP is an organization that has lost its moral bearings and they know it. What they proceed on is by working with like-minded fools who have to interest in the country other than to pillage it to the best of their wants and greed.

 

[TracyTan866]

PAP is like a football team that imprisoned its opponent's best players. PAP is like a football team that has the extra egg when a referee can't decide completely on making a decision. The PAP is like a football team that has been playing games with the game such that players do not want to play for them.

There is no honour in winning and there is certainly no honour in being part of an organization that does everything unsportsmanlike to win.

They have run their course on moral ground. In doing so, they have alienated themselves from a large pool of bright, socially responsible citizens. All that they can attract are the power mongers and the bottom of the barrel types. The PAP is an organization that has lost its moral bearings and they know it. What they proceed on is by working with like-minded fools who have to interest in the country other than to pillage it to the best of their wants and greed.

clear and good description of pap and how it wins 60% of the votes. there is no honour in winning election through pap dirty tactics. if pap team plays fair and according to equal rules, it may get less than 50%

 

[brocoli]

I think it is only a holiday break for Cynthia because she was going for a year or two, as I remember.

I think CSM's credentials are only in the legal fraternity - there is not such thing as an absolute worldwide credential. In my view, WP already had a credible career man in 2006 - Tan Wui Hua - except in the finance sector. Looking at his background, it already surpassed all in the team - Sylvia, Rahizan, Gomez etc. - and LTK himself. For various reasons back in 2006 - political climate, media coverage, charisma, level of credential in respective fields, Gomez issue etc. - Tan was not carried to the level of CSM in 2011.

Rhodes Scholarship, named after Cecil John Rhodes, is an international postgraduate award, widely considered the "world's most prestigious scholarship" by many public sources such as Time, Yale University Press, The McGill Reporter, and Associated Press.

This is an absolute worldwide credential

like the rest of the trash from the 06 batch.... Tan Wui Hua has show that he s just after power ... since there is no power to be shared they all left and crumble....

he is now CFO of Al Maabar International Investments ..... I think its good that the 06 batch didnt win since they have show that they are not in it for the long haul....

Tan Wui Hua was from University of New Brunswick, McMaster University, Victoria University ...

CSM was the top student in Singapore for the 1979 "A" level examinations, scoring straight As in Biology, Physics, Chemistry and Mathematics B, as well as A1s for General Paper and Chinese. He graduated from Harvard University in 1986 and from Corpus Christi College, Oxford University in 1988, where he was a Rhodes Scholar. In 1992 Chen received his Juris Doctor from Stanford Law School and in 2005 received his M.A. from Corpus Christi College, Oxford University.

Chen was named one of American Lawyer’s 2010 "Dealmakers of the Year" in April 2011

with all due respect .... comparing CSM and Tan Wui Hua is like comparing heaven and earth..... IF WP can get another Yee JJ, is already a goot find......

you can never get another CSM ... unless Bill CLinton become sinkie citizen

 

[Perspective]

I did not say TWH was respectively the same as CSM but otherwise. Although I did say that CSM's credentials was in law, I didn't refer to his Rhodes scholarship. On his academic areas, you are right, but CSM may would know nuts about CFO work and accounting.

I think it is hard to say there was no long haul - CSM won, TWH did not. TWH was already in 2001 and was supposed to be in the disqualified Aljunied team, but could not round up his matters overseas to come back in time for nomination day. I always feel that it is right for those who lose to find their own source of income - eg. I have nothing against Cynthia Phua leaving for overseas study and return as a candidate, but think Penny Low otherwise.

If TWH had been another new face in 2011 and put in East Coast as team leader with JJ, I think the margin would have narrowed to at least 53-47 to 49.5-50.5.

 

[brocoli]

I did not say TWH was respectively the same as CSM but otherwise. Although I did say that CSM's credentials was in law, I didn't refer to his Rhodes scholarship. On his academic areas, you are right, but CSM may would know nuts about CFO work and accounting.

I think it is hard to say there was no long haul - CSM won, TWH did not. TWH was already in 2001 and was supposed to be in the disqualified Aljunied team, but could not round up his matters overseas to come back in time for nomination day. I always feel that it is right for those who lose to find their own source of income - eg. I have nothing against Cynthia Phua leaving for overseas study and return as a candidate, but think Penny Low otherwise.

If TWH had been another new face in 2011 and put in East Coast as team leader with JJ, I think the margin would have narrowed to at least 53-47 to 49.5-50.5.

no, it s not even about different level of expertise ....there is no comparison @ all.....career wise

SO TWH is CFO..... big deal??? CSM was dealmaker of the year and widely consulted by CIC and various exchanges around the world.......

no comparison @ alll .... there are so many CFO .... did TWH win CFO of the year ???? was he widly consulted by various govt around the world ???

you either dun have any ideas how highly regarded is show mao.... or you are a dumbfark

we wun get another CSM .... there is not even many people with his credential all over the world... @ all much less SIngapore....



Mitt ROmmey come pretty close.... this guy make like Hundred Millions easily and turn bankrupt companies into gold....

Mitt ROmmey is not a lawyer or CFO... he is business guy... why cant we compare across different career ???


I also dunno what the hell you are talking about Cynthia Phua... she went for Harvard Advanced Management Program //// it is a 2 month overprized course...

what holiday are you talking about she is back for goot./...

 

[Checker]

Something obvious... talent is important factor. How talent is defined by age may need to be re-thought. People living and being productive longer now, everywhere in the world. People all over the world run for political office in their 50s, 60s, 70s. Idea that a good political leader needs many years of experience in politics is probably not always true.

Going by their dragging TT out of retirement for PE, it may not really be that difficult to get somebody 60s or even older eg GY to return to do one more big risky project, especially after he's been well looked after. Or have someone 55 to take one more big risk, that if fails, will still have other big positions lined up for his 60s-70s. Also when the political contests are seen as exciting, challenging, of national significance given cock-ups in the news so often, more and more talented people may get off their backsides to participate - in ruling and opposition.

Perhaps Aljunied will see a contest of a team of veteran + younger folk, all of whom will be less afraid to risk and lose. May even send a strong signal that the kia-su age is over (for the ruling party and country). If they can look after their people well after losing, as only they have the network & resources to, this could ensure a stream of such willing strong challengers.

 

[Fook Seng]

Why so much talk about academic achievements and career success? To the electorate at large these are just the passports. More important is whether you are sincere and whether they like you.

 

[The_Hypocrite]

AMy is MOS, Halimah Yacob also popular, also MOS.....

Baey is also Popular...but MP

Thanks for the comment and this is my take:

on another point just wan to add that I think PAP Aljunied Team is more or less formed....

Teo Ser Fuck is fucked.... Ong Ye Kung will still be there.... Lim KeXin, Victor Lye... I dun think PM is stupid enough to put Phua Siok Gek Cynthia again... but you never know

All popular PAP MPs are retired off etc as they are there to make PAP look good, but no matter what the Oligarchs remain in control. Look at Tan Soo Khoon, Tan Cheng Bock, Wong Kai Yuen...all retired before their prime but LKY still there,,,so got logic or not?

If TCB became PM, PAP will be in a better position than now. But the Oligarchs are up to their tricks..want to make themselves and their cronies rich and richer and the people suffer. Look at their FT policies? Its to enrich their connected businesses and themselves and nothing to do with advancing the plight of Singaporeans...

 

[The_Hypocrite]

Halimah to me is not popular, she gave out the infamous No Chicken eat fish or something like that,,where got ear on the ground??

Teo Ser Luck, yeah luck to be MP...what is he good for? or what is his achievements?

Amy Khor, popular with Hong Kah North SMC that is why she win 70%. like TCB,,but will be retired off soon...too popular will displace LHL.

Wait maybe they will really put her in Aljunied,,than she loose, LHL will have one less thorn on his side.

I think LHL fears his popular MPs more than the opposition, its easier for LHL to be displaced by popular PAP MPs than for the PAP to loose the election..

what say u?

 

[brocoli]

Halimah to me is not popular, she gave out the infamous No Chicken eat fish or something like that,,where got ear on the ground??

Teo Ser Luck, yeah luck to be MP...what is he good for? or what is his achievements?

Amy Khor, popular with Hong Kah North SMC that is why she win 70%. like TCB,,but will be retired off soon...too popular will displace LHL.

Wait maybe they will really put her in Aljunied,,than she loose, LHL will have one less thorn on his side.

I think LHL fears his popular MPs more than the opposition, its easier for LHL to be displaced by popular PAP MPs than for the PAP to loose the election..

what say u?

the malays lub halimah dip dip ....

even ex-NSP abdul salim lub her dip dip