The investment thread (Finally)

[snowbird]

Macau's casinos are not doing well after corruption crackdowns in China.

Casinos in this region are ALL not doing well after the start of crackdown on corruption in China.
Casinos in Macau and Singapore are all reporting sliding profits and dismay results.
Genting share prices had dropped sharply because of poor casino revenue in last 2 quarters!

 

[austin_hts]

Gambling, like prostituion, is a resilient industry. There are ups and downs, but one thing definite is that they are here to stay.. .... Huge market as China' s middle class continues to grow, and the rich becomes richer...

Casinos in this region are ALL not doing well after the start of crackdown on corruption in China.
Casinos in Macau and Singapore are all reporting sliding profits and dismay results.
Genting share prices had dropped sharply because of poor casino revenue in last 2 quarters!

 

[snowbird]

Gambling, like prostituion, is a resilient industry. There are ups and downs, but one thing definite is that they are here to stay.. .... Huge market as China' s middle class continues to grow, and the rich becomes richer...

But unfortunately, casinos' business cannot survive on "middle class" customers even if thousands come everyday into the casino halls, these "ikan bilis" gamblers can just perhaps pay for the rent.
Their target and main revenue are from those high rollers in the VIP rooms where millions change hands every minute.
Since the crackdown, these high rollers from China had somewhat disappeared and were felt in Macau and Singapore where big time mainland Chinese gamblers formed the bulk!
According to yesterday's ST, Macau businesses suffered a straight 8 months decline with about US$78 billion market value wiped out!

 

[malpaso]

A good read about residential property investment strategies

http://www.biggerpockets.com/renewsblog/2015/01/28/why-people-move-real-estate/

Key takeaways:
1. look into upgraders' markets
2. community creation is important
3. " in today’s market, being the upgrade people want to move into is a strong place to be."
4. accessibility is a strong point
5. consider retirement properties as ageing baby boomer numbers creep up

 

[austin_hts]

Hi, useful read...


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/video...ays-mainland-casino-penetration-below-2-video

Oct. 23 (Bloomberg) -- Sands China Ltd. Chief Executive Officer Edward Tracy talks about the company's business outlook. Sands China, the Macau casino operator controlled by billionaire Sheldon Adelson, said last week profit increased 3.3 percent as growth in mass-market gamblers partly made up for lower spending by high rollers.*


http://www.gamingzion.com/gamblingn...lers-will-define-the-asian-casino-market-4868

.....
The Economist reported that while high-rollers accounted for over 60 percent of Macau’s revenues in 2013, mass market gamblers brought in significantly higher profits. Why the gap between revenues and profits? VIPs spend a lot more money, but they are also very expensive to serve. The helicopter rides, comped hotel rooms and lavish feasts add up. By contrast, ordinary players provide their own transport and pay for their own room and board. While they spend less on an individual basis, the profit margin on their wager tends to be higher than that of high rollers. In short, it plays to market to the masses.

Expect the masses to keep massing

This trend will only keep growing. As China, South Korea, India and the Philippines continue to grow economically, more middle-class families and individuals will look for holiday destinations abroad. Casino hubs such as Macau are rich not only in gambling opportunities but in resort facilities as well. Just as how Las Vegas eventually made the transition from gambling-only city to an entertainment hub with something for everyone, Macau seems to be going down a similar path.*

But unfortunately, casinos' business cannot survive on "middle class" customers even if thousands come everyday into the casino halls, these "ikan bilis" gamblers can just perhaps pay for the rent.
Their target and main revenue are from those high rollers in the VIP rooms where millions change hands every minute.
Since the crackdown, these high rollers from China had somewhat disappeared and were felt in Macau and Singapore where big time mainland Chinese gamblers formed the bulk!
According to yesterday's ST, Macau businesses suffered a straight 8 months decline with about US$78 billion market value wiped out!

 

[snowbird]

Hi, useful read...


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/video...ays-mainland-casino-penetration-below-2-video

Oct. 23 (Bloomberg) -- Sands China Ltd. Chief Executive Officer Edward Tracy talks about the company's business outlook. Sands China, the Macau casino operator controlled by billionaire Sheldon Adelson, said last week profit increased 3.3 percent as growth in mass-market gamblers partly made up for lower spending by high rollers.*


http://www.gamingzion.com/gamblingn...lers-will-define-the-asian-casino-market-4868

.....
The Economist reported that while high-rollers accounted for over 60 percent of Macau’s revenues in 2013, mass market gamblers brought in significantly higher profits. Why the gap between revenues and profits? VIPs spend a lot more money, but they are also very expensive to serve. The helicopter rides, comped hotel rooms and lavish feasts add up. By contrast, ordinary players provide their own transport and pay for their own room and board. While they spend less on an individual basis, the profit margin on their wager tends to be higher than that of high rollers. In short, it plays to market to the masses.

Expect the masses to keep massing

This trend will only keep growing. As China, South Korea, India and the Philippines continue to grow economically, more middle-class families and individuals will look for holiday destinations abroad. Casino hubs such as Macau are rich not only in gambling opportunities but in resort facilities as well. Just as how Las Vegas eventually made the transition from gambling-only city to an entertainment hub with something for everyone, Macau seems to be going down a similar path.*

Conflicting news reports but what I had quoted are more current!

Report dated 12 Nov 2014 :

TODAY reports: The thinning stream of high-rolling gamblers from China has led to a plunge in the earnings of the two Singapore integrated casino resorts, prompting MBS parent Las Vegas Sands to accuse its rival of resorting to desperate means to win market share.
The thinning stream of high-rolling gamblers from China has led to a plunge in the earnings of the two Singapore integrated casino resorts, prompting MBS parent Las Vegas Sands to accuse its rival of resorting to desperate means to win market share.

Genting Singapore yesterday reported that net profit had plunged to S$127.1 million in the third quarter ended Sept 30 from S$222.7 million in the corresponding period a year earlier as overall revenue fell 17 per cent to S$644.8 million. Gaming revenue slumped 21 per cent to S$477.3 million, Genting said, noting that the premium-player business underperformed in the period.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/business/mbs-lashes-out-as-casinos/1467376.html


Yesterday's news :


HONG KONG (AFP) - The world's gambling capital Macau saw another month of decline in casino revenues in January, figures showed Monday, as a corruption crackdown by the Chinese government continues to rein in big spenders.
Official figures published by the former Portuguese colony showed that gaming revenues fell 17.4 percent year-on-year to 23.75 billion patacas (S$4.02 billion) in January - cementing an eight month losing streak for the gambling hub. Revenues plunged a record 30.5 percent in December and 2.6 percent overall in 2014 - the first annual decline since figures were first released in 2002.
The slowdown has mostly been attributed to a high-profile corruption crackdown spearheaded by Chinese President Xi Jinping that has reined in high-rollers from the mainland.

See more at: http://www.straitstimes.com/archive...anti-graft-push-20150202#sthash.VrULPWcc.dpuf

 

[austin_hts]

Hi

I do not think the news are conflicting. Last year's decliine can be largely attributed to plunge in revenue from hgh-rollers. Mass market players conitnued to grow and provided support. Going forward, mass market will continue to grow steadily, share for this segment may increase. Contributions from high rollers remains important and may come back but will be volatile.

Conflicting news reports but what I had quoted are more current!

Report dated 12 Nov 2014 :

TODAY reports: The thinning stream of high-rolling gamblers from China has led to a plunge in the earnings of the two Singapore integrated casino resorts, prompting MBS parent Las Vegas Sands to accuse its rival of resorting to desperate means to win market share.
The thinning stream of high-rolling gamblers from China has led to a plunge in the earnings of the two Singapore integrated casino resorts, prompting MBS parent Las Vegas Sands to accuse its rival of resorting to desperate means to win market share.

Genting Singapore yesterday reported that net profit had plunged to S$127.1 million in the third quarter ended Sept 30 from S$222.7 million in the corresponding period a year earlier as overall revenue fell 17 per cent to S$644.8 million. Gaming revenue slumped 21 per cent to S$477.3 million, Genting said, noting that the premium-player business underperformed in the period.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/business/mbs-lashes-out-as-casinos/1467376.html


Yesterday's news :


HONG KONG (AFP) - The world's gambling capital Macau saw another month of decline in casino revenues in January, figures showed Monday, as a corruption crackdown by the Chinese government continues to rein in big spenders.
Official figures published by the former Portuguese colony showed that gaming revenues fell 17.4 percent year-on-year to 23.75 billion patacas (S$4.02 billion) in January - cementing an eight month losing streak for the gambling hub. Revenues plunged a record 30.5 percent in December and 2.6 percent overall in 2014 - the first annual decline since figures were first released in 2002.
The slowdown has mostly been attributed to a high-profile corruption crackdown spearheaded by Chinese President Xi Jinping that has reined in high-rollers from the mainland.

See more at: http://www.straitstimes.com/archive...anti-graft-push-20150202#sthash.VrULPWcc.dpuf

 

[RedsYNWA]

Hi

I do not think the news are conflicting. Last year's decliine can be largely attributed to plunge in revenue from hgh-rollers. Mass market players conitnued to grow and provided support. Going forward, mass market will continue to grow steadily, share for this segment may increase. Contributions from high rollers remains important and may come back but will be volatile.

Furthermore, I think an impt point is that the 'under-performance' is quite relative. These 2 casinos remain far and away, the most profitable in the world, in spite of their 'under-performance'.

 

[wolverine23]

To keep Johor property long term or sell for 20% profit?

 

[enjoylife77]

Anyone hold casino stock ?

 

[snowbird]

To keep Johor property long term or sell for 20% profit?

If for self use, keep.
If for investment and financially well off, keep.
If for quick gain and after legal fees and RPGT can still get 20% net, sell and take the money!

 

[AsusGuy]

To keep Johor property long term or sell for 20% profit?

Maybe if the location is good, just keep it.

 

[wolverine23]

Thanks... but maybe hope it becomes a big thing in future... 200% gain? )

If for self use, keep.
If for investment and financially well off, keep.
If for quick gain and after legal fees and RPGT can still get 20% net, sell and take the money!

 

[snowbird]

Thanks... but maybe hope it becomes a big thing in future... 200% gain? )

When in future?
Prices had already kind of peaked and likely to plateau for a while.
You want to wait till the tens of thousand units under construction all TOP and the market is full of resale with prices starting to soften and becomes a buyers' market!
Your decision anyway.

 

[sgcount]

My Malaysian friend told me the outlook on Iskandar is actually not positive even in the next 10-15 years, especially for those who have bought high-rise condos. Rental is generally very weak or non-existent also.

You either got to wait very long to see how it goes (wait till when? Really don't know) or buy for your own stay. It is not wise to buy for investment. Of course, this is only based on the current sentiments and data presented. Unless the amenities can be built fast enough or the Msian govt can be more efficient (?!!!), the optimism on Iskandar is just not there. Expect high vacancy upon completion of many of the projects.

 

[Frodo]

My Malaysian friend told me the outlook on Iskandar is actually not positive even in the next 10-15 years, especially for those who have bought high-rise condos. Rental is generally very weak or non-existent also.

You either got to wait very long to see how it goes (wait till when? Really don't know) or buy for your own stay. It is not wise to buy for investment. Of course, this is only based on the current sentiments and data presented. Unless the amenities can be built fast enough or the Msian govt can be more efficient (?!!!), the optimism on Iskandar is just not there. Expect high vacancy upon completion of many of the projects.

I think generally is true....and depends on where the condos are located....better placed condos should see more more living than the dead.

 

[Relaxman]

I think generally is true....and depends on where the condos are located....better placed condos should see more more living than the dead.

This is not only the problem of condos' owners. Even landed properties share the same fate.Price of Horizon hills houses see a sharp drop in sub sale units. Eco World having problem selling their Eco Tropics terrace houses. Setia Eco Cascadia house owners also suffer the same fate as many wanted to let go their units before VP.

 

[Frodo]

This is not only the problem of condos' owners. Even landed properties share the same fate.Price of Horizon hills houses see a sharp drop in sub sale units. Eco World having problem selling their Eco Tropics terrace houses. Setia Eco Cascadia house owners also suffer the same fate as many wanted to let go their units before VP.

Hmmm....I did visit a friend at HH landed properties next the condominium...pretty much deserted, not much renovation works going on....not sure all sold no one move in, or not sold and nobody want

 

[Relaxman]

Hmmm....I did visit a friend at HH landed properties next the condominium...pretty much deserted, not much renovation works going on....not sure all sold no one move in, or not sold and nobody want

Both..... mostly just a bunch of flippers waiting for the right time to let go just like at SEC.

 

[mmmm00]

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