The inside on LTA Train Debacle Cover-up

[50000]

The Price and Maths of LTA's Purchase of Trains

Let's do the Maths for LTA's purchase of the Trains from Kawasaki Consortium. Before that, we must understand that there are two types of trains in use in Singapore. The normal ones are 6 cabins/cars train while the other one is 4 cabins/cars train......

......It is very clear that SG LTA is really a sucker in this deal, paying MORE for a train with less cabins (one third less) with high defective rate!

Goh Meng Seng

They must have included a new COE category for trains.....

jokes aside...they will want high purchase price to justify price increases again to screw the 70%....

 

[virus]

Ownself check ownself n so massive fraud occur. AG chamber the barking dogs tiam tiam.CPIB CAD tiam tiam just because they were not under Hougang.

 

[Papsmearer]

Shouldn't LTA Engineers have gone to China to inspect the cabins before accepting them here , then finding defects ? Looks like everybody in government going auto on us.

You can write into the contract to have independent quality control stationed at the production plant during the construction. Or to regularly inspect the production line, or you can station your own engineers on your own payroll to be there too. But the best thing to do is thoroughly inspect it before acceptance. In this case, because the issue is with the aluminum alloy, it may not be possible to detect it anyway unless u did metallurgical tests on it.

 

[Papsmearer]

The certification is to be done by Kawasaki under the contract. Which does make sense as LTA is not an engineering body but more a regulatory body but this case proves that it is best done by an independent party which I am told is the case.

You are missing the whole point here.

Ask yourself the question of why SMRT is not the owner of the rolling stocks that it operates? Where in the world got this kind of sweetheart arrangement? LTA owns the trains and cars and buses, and absorbs the depreciation, wear and tear, and manufacturing defects while SMRT just operates them and earn the money? Bullshit. SInce SMRT is operating the trains, why can't they buy and own the trains themselves?. Let them go to the banks and borrow the money. Let them make the decision on what to buy and for how much. In this case, if the trains were ordered and owned by the SMRT, the shares would have gone down 20% by now. The BOD would be under a lot of pressure from non Stomachsick Investors and I guarantee you that Dessie Quack's backside would be very warm on the hotseat. Instead, the taxpayer is stuck with these bullshit trains, and SMRT is laughing and saying "Heng ah, we ask LTA to order and buy the trains, but we are not stuck with the defects."

 

[ckmpd]

You are missing the whole point here.

Ask yourself the question of why SMRT is not the owner of the rolling stocks that it operates? Where in the world got this kind of sweetheart arrangement? LTA owns the trains and cars and buses, and absorbs the depreciation, wear and tear, and manufacturing defects while SMRT just operates them and earn the money? Bullshit. SInce SMRT is operating the trains, why can't they buy and own the trains themselves?. Let them go to the banks and borrow the money. Let them make the decision on what to buy and for how much. In this case, if the trains were ordered and owned by the SMRT, the shares would have gone down 20% by now. The BOD would be under a lot of pressure from non Stomachsick Investors and I guarantee you that Dessie Quack's backside would be very warm on the hotseat. Instead, the taxpayer is stuck with these bullshit trains, and SMRT is laughing and saying "Heng ah, we ask LTA to order and buy the trains, but we are not stuck with the defects."

I think it is good to study whether SG shd nationalise the mrt system and run it on a cost recovery concept rather than to make profits from such an important and essential service

 

[Papsmearer]

I think it is good to study whether SG shd nationalise the mrt system and run it on a cost recovery concept rather than to make profits from such an important and essential service

The answer is that the existing system is duplicitous, inefficient, and wasteful. For such a small area, you have basically 3 entities involved. You have SMRT and SBS running both train lines and buses. Then you have LTA which buys and owns the buses and trains. Just one entity should operate all the bus services and all the train services and own their own bloody trains and buses, and this should be done by a nationalized or govt own company. But if they do this, then they lose 2 other BODs, 2 other senior management teams, and the ability to place their PAP prolumpars and ex SAF Scholar generals into this positions.

 

[eatshitndie]

You can write into the contract to have independent quality control stationed at the production plant during the construction. Or to regularly inspect the production line, or you can station your own engineers on your own payroll to be there too. But the best thing to do is thoroughly inspect it before acceptance. In this case, because the issue is with the aluminum alloy, it may not be possible to detect it anyway unless u did metallurgical tests on it.

yes, it's extremely difficult to pinpoint defective source material in the supply chain if main supplier has a historically "trusted" supply chain relationship with a wrought aluminum plant which provides rolled sheets or alloy material. not only a metallurgical test and or material analysis via electron microscope is required but also a process inspection is necessary to pinpoint how impurities get in the finished material. my suspicion is improper heat treatment or annealing somewhere has gone wrong especially with aluminum as the base material. you seem to know metallurgy quite well.

 

[CoffeeAhSoh]

Wahhhhh... this thread is hot ahhhh !!!

long time no see hundreds of viewers

 

[Annunaki]

Kaw need to sharpen his samurai sword to prepare for hara kiri

In the meantime this thread is giving multiple orgasm to ah Kua ROy Ngerng and making him very wet

 

[scroobal]

Yet another update

Notice that Minister Transport Khaw Boon Wan has been exceptionally quiet. This is the man also came to the fore when he began his political career in MOH, Min of national development and then Transport. Remember he was critical of cluster pricing in MOH, then made critical comments about housing, commented about Brompton bikes etc.

This is the first time he has not spoken. Its the 3rd day. Word is that he has no confidence on briefing given to him over there the last 2 days. He wants more explanations and does not want to face another blowback.

 

[scroobal]

I do agree the arrangement does not work and lends itself to finger pointing rather than accepting responsibility. It be like the London Underground which is owned by the Public Sector so there is single accountability. In the case of the Underground, there were previous attempts to tender key operations but these have been brought in-house for cost reasons.

You are missing the whole point here.

Ask yourself the question of why SMRT is not the owner of the rolling stocks that it operates? Where in the world got this kind of sweetheart arrangement? LTA owns the trains and cars and buses, and absorbs the depreciation, wear and tear, and manufacturing defects while SMRT just operates them and earn the money? Bullshit. SInce SMRT is operating the trains, why can't they buy and own the trains themselves?. Let them go to the banks and borrow the money. Let them make the decision on what to buy and for how much. In this case, if the trains were ordered and owned by the SMRT, the shares would have gone down 20% by now. The BOD would be under a lot of pressure from non Stomachsick Investors and I guarantee you that Dessie Quack's backside would be very warm on the hotseat. Instead, the taxpayer is stuck with these bullshit trains, and SMRT is laughing and saying "Heng ah, we ask LTA to order and buy the trains, but we are not stuck with the defects."

 

[po2wq]

... Notice that Minister Transport Khaw Boon Wan has been exceptionally quiet. This is the man also came to the fore when he began his political career in MOH, Min of national development and then Transport. Remember he was critical of cluster pricing in MOH, then made critical comments about housing, commented about Brompton bikes etc ...

bcoz tis din happen in a place called aljunied ... otherwise u can bet dat burger wud haf jumped out double quik wif 2 guns blazing ...

 

[halsey02]

I do agree the arrangement does not work and lends itself to finger pointing rather than accepting responsibility. It be like the London Underground which is owned by the Public Sector so there is single accountability. In the case of the Underground, there were previous attempts to tender key operations but these have been brought in-house for cost reasons.

Divine providence had just issued a warning to these people, in striking down a swift flyer in Heng Swee Keat, only he & the Lord, knows what he was punished for, in getting a stroke, but didn't die yet.

Cow$8...is busy preparing his speech, & his speech writers are working feverishly over time, to find the best excuse to exonerate cow$8 to commit harakiri....for a person, who dare open his mouth to others, must be able to walk the talk, or divine providence will hold him accountable & award him with a heart failure.

 

[po2wq]

... This is the first time he has not spoken. Its the 3rd day ...

stil waiting 4 new milestones 2 b achieved ...

u nid 2 announce ze gud news 1st ...

bad news u leave dem last n juz mention in passing ...

 

[ginbitchy]

Divine providence had just issued a warning to these people, in striking down a swift flyer in Heng Swee Keat, only he & the Lord, knows what he was punished for, in getting a stroke, but didn't die yet.

Cow$8...is busy preparing his speech, & his speech writers are working feverishly over time, to find the best excuse to exonerate cow$8 to commit harakiri....for a person, who dare open his mouth to others, must be able to walk the talk, or divine providence will hold him accountable & award him with a heart failure.

Not another chapter on Liang Shan Bo and Zhu Ying Tai, okay ?

buay tahan liao.

 

[Papsmearer]

yes, it's extremely difficult to pinpoint defective source material in the supply chain if main supplier has a historically "trusted" supply chain relationship with a wrought aluminum plant which provides rolled sheets or alloy material. not only a metallurgical test and or material analysis via electron microscope is required but also a process inspection is necessary to pinpoint how impurities get in the finished material. my suspicion is improper heat treatment or annealing somewhere has gone wrong especially with aluminum as the base material. you seem to know metallurgy quite well.

SIgh, unfortunately in my business, we deal with China suppliers all the time. Even the so called independent and certified QC companies that many western MNCs use in China, I also don't trust at all. I heard their auditors and inpectors can be bought off by the client, and they then confirm false info to you. I am not an engineer by training, but It can be written into the contract that this testing be done. My understanding from my dealings in that when any metal comes into the SCR Sifang factory for use in their trains, they have to be tested. Whether its steel for the wheels, or aluminum alloy as in this case, it has to be tested to confirm that the supplier shipped them according to the specs required by CSR Sifang. And lets face it, such a large train manufacturer is a major user of metals.

Samples should have been taken when the steel and aluminum rolls come into the factory. LTA should specify access to these samples themselves and conduct independent tests on them. Or at the very lease request to see the CSR test results. Only 3 possible scenarios here.

a) CSR SIfang did no such testing, in which case all their products all over the world are suspect. No one will order from them for such negligence.
b)The samples were tested, but did not meet the metallurgical specs, but CSR ok them for use in the manufacture. Either someone was bribed to accept them or some hanky panky going on.
c) CSR tested them, found that the batch was unacceptable, but decided to accept them anyway because of time constraints. THey might then have falsified the tests to make it look as though the batch was acceptable for use.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Further update last night.

Its looks like a case of heavy omission by the authorities in their press clarifications. Here is the latest.

1 Ministry of Communication and Information will coordinate all media related matters for this case. More like less that come out is better.

2. HK MTR have contacted LTA seeking details of the defects. HK MTR have launched their own probe as they too have ordered trains from Sifang.

3. There were heavy bracing work done on the bolsters using brackets and these were done in Bishan depot by Sifang technicians supervised by Kawasaki and certified by an independent german company as a temporary measure.

4. The source remains firm that the whole train has been sent back as the entire construction integrity is suspect as defects and cracks are not confined to bolster. The bolsters are modular in nature and can be easily replaced if it was just the case of the bolster. We will actually getting a new train which some cannibalised parts from the old trains is used.

LTA or Ministry of Transport still cannot explain why the whole train is being sent back and why new car bodies will be installed if it is just the bolster.

If there were really brackets installed on the bolsters, then apparently LTA is lying again! They claim that there were no brackets installed!

They have to be exposed! Can you get any photo evidence?

Goh Meng Seng

 

[krafty]

shucks! all smrt wants is make money from commuters irregardless of safety concern.

my scout in LTA, whatsapp me below info.:

[21:22, 7/7/2016]The train design and parts from japan. Assembly and some parts and body from china. Becos cheaper
[21:23, 7/7/2016]Last time train order from euro & japan very expensive result in high costs

 

[genetics]

Up for more......

 

[scroobal]

Have reached out. The reply is to ask the Govt to release the entire set of reports regarding C151A from the German company that did the testing before and after repairs. There are photos in it. The company's name is TUV Rheinland. They have offices in HK and Shanghai.

If LTA and the Govt have nothing to hide release of the report should be readily acceded to. There is nothing classified in it.

If there were really brackets installed on the bolsters, then apparently LTA is lying again! They claim that there were no brackets installed!

They have to be exposed! Can you get any photo evidence?

Goh Meng Seng