Chitchat The facts behind the Laju Incident

[steffychun]

It was not ISD per se, it was the 3 personalities involved - Tay Seow Huah, Yoong and Nathan. Yoong was the odd one. LKY took his cue from Tay who was Perm Sec.

but wasn't Tay both ISD and SID head? So back to my question: Which was the favoured agency for LKY?

 

[scroobal]

It serves too different purposes. Politically domestic intelligence is the singular most important asset for any country. External intelligence is additional asset if it brings in the bacon. Tay was an outsider where ISD was concerned and I am sure they kept things away from him and it was not a surprise that it was handed back to the experts with in a short of time.

but wasn't Tay both ISD and SID head? So back to my question: Which was the favoured agency for LKY?

 

[steffychun]

It serves too different purposes. Politically domestic intelligence is the singular most important asset for any country. External intelligence is additional asset if it brings in the bacon. Tay was an outsider where ISD was concerned and I am sure they kept things away from him and it was not a surprise that it was handed back to the experts with in a short of time.

But Tay had the ear of LKY? Not Nathan? Or which top civil servant?

 

[GoldenDragon]

The rivalry again erupted during the Official Secret Trial that included Tharman, Manu Bhaskaran, Patrick Daniel and company. Manu comes from a very modest background and a PSC OMS. He was posted to ISD as an analyst but SID poached him and and a lot of tension was created as a result. Manu after completing his bond went to the private sector but has risen quite substantially while in SID. During the trial ISD senior honchos testified in camera and Manu background came into contention and it became apparent the betrayal was never forgiven. As this portion of the trail was held in camera, it was not reported.

In the mid-90s, another battle took place. Traitors were detected in SID and Tony Tan, as minister of Defence, tried to contain the incident by wanting SID to investigate their own!

WKS die die wanted ISD to take over investigations and succeeded in convincing GCT that SID should not investigate their own.

The rest is history. Several detained under ISA.

 

[scroobal]

With so many generals that let lose early in mid career, one has to worry, thus sinecures in the GLCs. The offshoot of the SID compromise is creation of the coordinating role in PMO like UK and OZ. Mindef also increased MSD's remit to overlap SID. The offical excuse for the compromise - "no one expected the Malaysians to throw so much money". It's either sex or money, nothing new.

In the mid-90s, another battle took place. Traitors were detected in SID and Tony Tan, as minister of Defence, tried to contain the incident by wanting SID to investigate their own!

WKS die die wanted ISD to take over investigations and succeeded in convincing GCT that SID should not investigate their own.

The rest is history. Several detained under ISA.

 

[red amoeba]

very interesting...

a. nathan is known to speak japanese and supposedly to be close to Japan since WW2. So why he was not trusted but Lee during the negotiations / face off with the terrorists?
b. the 13 singaporeans as guarntors, why need so many for 4 terrorists? With commandos in the midst, do they have intention to get rid of the terrorists during mid-flight or something? JAL plane, etc, are we sure none of them are Singaporeans ? The cabin crew, etc - none of them Singaporeans and thus the need for commandos to safeguard their safety?
c. So, instead of the hardline stance, we did give in to terrorist demands? Or did Japan squeezed our balls to give in in order to safeguard their interests in Kuwait?

 

[scroobal]

Japan was the primary target from word go. Japan was the biggest importer of oil in this part of the World and Bukom did the refining. They wanted to disrupt the flow of oil to Japan. When they did not succeed and go caught in the Laju, the initial negotiations asked for N.Korea to act as intermediary for their safe passage out. N.Korean did not want to engage. Followed by the Japanese ambassador in Singapore who also refused. Then the Japanese embassy in Kuwait was seized to increase leverage and it worked.

Japan flew its govt officials to Singapore and all for all intents and purposes took over the negotiations especially with the Kuwaits. The Kuwaitis refused initially to allow the proposed plane flight to Kuwait but subsequently relented.

As all hijackers spoke Arabic with Japanese also speaking English, they brought in 2 arabic interpreters especially as the one of the Arab was rather hyper. At no time, did Nathan talk to the hijackers in Japanese. He only met them in the VIP section in Paya Lebar Airport after they were disarmed by Tee Tua Bah at the Airport.

The plan required all 4 hijackers to find a passage out of Singapore as the lever was the seized embassy in Kuwait. The 4 commandoes were bodyguards at best for the unarmed terrorists.

In those days, the stance of non-negotiating with terrorists was not an accepted doctrine. Planes were regular hijacked.

My sense is that out of the 13, Tee Tua Bah, maybe one or two others and the 2 arabic interpreters were probably needed by the terrorists as they dealt with them directly over a period of time and they held on to the word provided by the 3. The others probably went for the joyride. The actually replacement hostages were the 2 govt officials and the 12 JAL Crew. Sadly the local press failed to mention this as well as the fact the negotiations were completely taken over by the Japanese Govt.

I have no qualms about how the whole thing evolved and the Japanese taking over as it seemed sensible. What I have issues is the misrepresentation of facts, claiming glory etc.

The fact that the Kuwait Govt had no idea that 13 Singaporeans were on board when the plane landed says it all. Hijackers and the 2 Japanese govt officials went out of the plane together while the Singaporeans remained on board.

very interesting...

a. nathan is known to speak japanese and supposedly to be close to Japan since WW2. So why he was not trusted but Lee during the negotiations / face off with the terrorists?
b. the 13 singaporeans as guarntors, why need so many for 4 terrorists? With commandos in the midst, do they have intention to get rid of the terrorists during mid-flight or something? JAL plane, etc, are we sure none of them are Singaporeans ? The cabin crew, etc - none of them Singaporeans and thus the need for commandos to safeguard their safety?
c. So, instead of the hardline stance, we did give in to terrorist demands? Or did Japan squeezed our balls to give in in order to safeguard their interests in Kuwait?

 

[steffychun]

In the mid-90s, another battle took place. Traitors were detected in SID and Tony Tan, as minister of Defence, tried to contain the incident by wanting SID to investigate their own!

WKS die die wanted ISD to take over investigations and succeeded in convincing GCT that SID should not investigate their own.

The rest is history. Several detained under ISA.

SID officials corrupt? Why they never run away?

 

[steffychun]

A bit off topic: If you read Tim Huxley's defending the Lion City (very pro PAP but well) SID failed in an intelligence stint in Australia. SID officers were caught or something. Who was directing that op?

Page 89 in the book

 

[steffychun]

http://www.straitstimes.com/singapo...hers-including-the-late-s-r-nathan-presidents

Dr Tan urged them to embrace their responsibility to become exceptional public service officers and embody the values of public service, like the late President S R Nathan.

"He truly embodied the values of public service, placing country before self even to the point of quite literally risking his life, during the Laju hijacking incident. He was a fearless defender of Singapore's interests abroad, and a passionate nation-builder at home, patiently weaving the fabric of a caring and cohesive society," said Dr Tan.

***

Wah, thne NSmen dont sacrifice leh?

 

[Bigfuck]

SID and ISD are variations of the same thing. Stupid, Idiot, Dumb and Idiot, Stupid, Dumb.

 

[gongkia]

SID and ISD are variations of the same thing. Stupid, Idiot, Dumb and Idiot, Stupid, Dumb.

They are not the same. SID is the intelligence arm, whereas ISD is the internal security arm.

 

[Bigfuck]

They are not the same. SID is the intelligence arm, whereas ISD is the internal security arm.

That is the nice official definition. The result is the same Stupid, Idiot, Dumb and Idiot, Stupid, Dumb. Talking them to the sky does not change the fact.