The CPF Mystery that has befuddled the Nation

[winnipegjets]

What about rolex submariner?

What lah? You asking for the skies?

 

[winnipegjets]

You have raised some good points here.

If you don't mind me asking, how you would turn what you have discussed into rallying points for opposition candidates?

Tell sinkees that they can't afford to retire thanks to the PAP CPF policies.

 

[JHolmesJr]

What lah? You asking for the skies?

Do you know how much it costs rolex to make it? Ask them and theyll tell you to fook off.

Same with cpf....you can ask abt the returns or complain how low they are....but you have no right to know how your money is being invested.

 

[GoldenDragon]

The only way to get answers is to kick them out in 2016. Be prepared for the hard truth. Will have many cases of heart attack. Good business for hospitals and private ambulances. Undertakers too. Many 'lobangs' in Mandai will be filled up. Have you book your niche yet?

 

[Sinkie]

The only way to get answers is to kick them out in 2016. Be prepared for the hard truth. Will have many cases of heart attack. Good business for hospitals and private ambulances. Undertakers too. Many 'lobangs' in Mandai will be filled up. Have you book your niche yet?

No need answers lah.....just want our CPF money back..........I did not give anyone permission to use my CPF money for anything.

 

[winnipegjets]

The only way to get answers is to kick them out in 2016. Be prepared for the hard truth. Will have many cases of heart attack. Good business for hospitals and private ambulances. Undertakers too. Many 'lobangs' in Mandai will be filled up. Have you book your niche yet?

Forensic auditors will be in huge demand too as the new government will need a team of them to comb through the books.
There will also be demand for mercenaries in case the SAF goes AWOL.
Finally, we might have to bring in foreign judges to overseas the local ones to ensure that they do not favour the PAP.

 

[winnipegjets]

Do you know how much it costs rolex to make it? Ask them and theyll tell you to fook off.

Same with cpf....you can ask abt the returns or complain how low they are....but you have no right to know how your money is being invested.

The CPF is your money ...you are paid a meagre 2.5 percent interest on that ...every year, inflation eats up the savings ...when you get your hands on it eventually, your $300k is worth only $150k.
That's the problem ....inflation and poor returns is making us poor.
Just pay us the 7 percent return annually or better still, give us a pension equivalent to 50 percent of the best 5 years payable at age 60.

 

[chonburifc]

Chee Bye Smelly Stinkees, get your facts right! CPF money don't belong to Stinkees. This is call Citizen Protection Fee. Pay protection fee got ask refund one? Smelly Stinkees should be gased!

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

The short answer is that I doubt if the PAP themselves know what is the actual return. You can calculate the actual returns, but its very time consuming.

I used to do such things on MS Excel. Multiple input of funds, and multiple withdrawal of funds, compute net return. Except this time the transactions (inputs plus withdrawals over decade-long periods) runs into the millions, so this old style computational macros may be too slow even more modern computing speeds. Nonetheless the algo I used can be easily adapted into a software program (if I could do it in MS Excel of all things, any half-baked programmer could easily write a decent program to do what it did) and then run on a state of the art server.

It will probably take not 52 man years but probably 52 hours or even 52 minutes to cum up with the answer.

 

[scroobal]

Tracking returns for investment funds placed with MAS, Temasek and GIC is no different to funds placed in any private investment funds or even from a savings account in a local bank. There are plethora of softwares that do this. Private Banking clients can even gets daily statements showing their interest earned on daily basis. Fund management companies in many countries are required by regulators must provide statements, clearly must display returns, fees charged etc. Thus these softwares have been built to meet the regulations.

 

[scroobal]

Its the difference that we want to know. They have to return to MAS first. MAS then to MOF.

I thought the more pertinent question is where is the difference disappearing to. Is it with GIC/Temasek? Or does it flow back to MOF? Or does it, as Roy suggest, flow to ...

 

[scroobal]

From 1974 to Feb 1986 - CPF rate for ordinary account was 6.50%
In Jun 99 - it was 4.41%
Since Jul 99 - it has been 2.5%

Temasek returns from 1974 to 2013 - 16%
GIC 20 years - 6,5% until 2013

So what happened? Who got smart?

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

Tracking returns for investment funds placed with MAS, Temasek and GIC is no different to funds placed in any private investment funds or even from a savings account in a local bank. There are plethora of softwares that do this. Private Banking clients can even gets daily statements showing their interest earned on daily basis. Fund management companies in many countries are required by regulators must provide statements, clearly must display returns, fees charged etc. Thus these softwares have been built to meet the regulations.

Agree. This is definitely not rocket science.

The only thing it takes is for CPF, MOF, MAS, GIC & Temasek to come together and come up with a consolidated statement of cash inflow and cash outflow. Cash outflow in this case also includes bond repayment with interest, and that sort of thing. Then use that to compute net returns. You don't have to tell us the consolidated statement of in and out flows. Just tell us the net returns - honestly.

Not hard.

 

[Leongsam]

.............so which one cost more...........

That's a very complicated question. :p

The best answer is "it depends".

 

[aurvandil]

Fairly sure that the difference,whatever it may be, is not flowing in this way. A significant portion of it appears to be be "disappearing" like MH370.

Its the difference that we want to know. They have to return to MAS first. MAS then to MOF.

 

[Liquigas]

Actually people are less concern with the returns than how much they are allowed to withdraw at age 55. So what if CPF returns is 8% pa but if the MS is increasing at an alarming rate then it is going to affect the withdrawal amount. My former colleague who turned 55 few months ago was only able to withdraw $5K eventhough he has close to $130K in his CPF account. This is because he cannot meet the MS of $148K (to be increased to $155K come July). For a someone who has toiled for 30 years waiting to collect his retirement funds this is something that is hard to bear ...

 

[Yanzi]

Do you know how much it costs rolex to make it? Ask them and theyll tell you to fook off.

Same with cpf....you can ask abt the returns or complain how low they are....but you have no right to know how your money is being invested.

The CPF is your money ...you are paid a meagre 2.5 percent interest on that ...every year, inflation eats up the savings ...when you get your hands on it eventually, your $300k is worth only $150k.
That's the problem ....inflation and poor returns is making us poor.
Just pay us the 7 percent return annually or better still, give us a pension equivalent to 50 percent of the best 5 years payable at age 60.

Why talk about Rolex? Rolex is not yours until you bought it.

CPF is YOUR MONEY.

Good reply. Up you.

 

[Yanzi]

Actually people are less concern with the returns than how much they are allowed to withdraw at age 55. So what if CPF returns is 8% pa but if the MS is increasing at an alarming rate then it is going to affect the withdrawal amount. My former colleague who turned 55 few months ago was only able to withdraw $5K eventhough he has close to $130K in his CPF account. This is because he cannot meet the MS of $148K (to be increased to $155K come July). For a someone who has toiled for 30 years waiting to collect his retirement funds this is something that is hard to bear ...

Are you aware that you could doubled your money in 10 years if your money is being compounded at a rate of 7%?

If it can be doubled, will you have any problem with meeting the current minimum sum?

 

[kukubird58]

it does not flow back to MOF. It remains with the 3 agencies MAS, temasek and GIC. Other than MAS, the CPF money allocated to Temasek and GIC are largely illiquid. If MOF requires money from Temasek or GIC, these agencies would have to liquidate their holdings in one or more of the companies they own.............. therefore, it does not flow back to MOF.

Its the difference that we want to know. They have to return to MAS first. MAS then to MOF.

hahaha....as usual, 1 of the 2 serial bullshitters is lying again....

 

[winnipegjets]

Actually people are less concern with the returns than how much they are allowed to withdraw at age 55. So what if CPF returns is 8% pa but if the MS is increasing at an alarming rate then it is going to affect the withdrawal amount. My former colleague who turned 55 few months ago was only able to withdraw $5K eventhough he has close to $130K in his CPF account. This is because he cannot meet the MS of $148K (to be increased to $155K come July). For a someone who has toiled for 30 years waiting to collect his retirement funds this is something that is hard to bear ...

The PAP has brainwashed us with the idea that the CPF approach is the best way for retirement savings. That's totally bs.

With the pool of funds, the CPF can easily invest the money to generate at least a long term average of 10 percent to provide pension for all sinkees.

That's what sinkees should demand.