Serious Terrex 3 not built by locals!

[jinjiaho]

Who designed the Ultimax 100?

Ultimax low rio one after shooting for a short time non stop.

 

[Hans168]

Daniel Goh could not design a toilet if his life depended on it. SAR-80 was originally a Sterling design, by their chief engineer Frank Waters. Stirling at that time was famous for its Sterling Mk 4 9mm submachine gun. They decided to get into the 5.56mm game as that was the future universal NATO calibre. Their design was so crap that they decide not to pursue it and instead licensed with Armalite to build the AR-18 in their factory. Along came CIS who had capacity in its AR-15/M-16 factory, after having fulfilled the SAF's order. Because they could not sell the AR-15 to other countries due to the licensing agreement, they decided to look around for other weapons they could manufacture and sell overseas as well as sell to the SAF.

They decided to buy the Stirling design and call it the SAR-80. The design was crap. It was ergonomically bad, it was heavy and it was poorly made. Even the version with the folding stock was heavier then the AR-15. I was in the first unit to trial this weapon. The original idea was to issue the compact version (folding stock) to the Commandoes and to Armour. But it was decided to quickly kill the whole project because it was crap. Only 20,000 was ever build. The morons at CIS (might have been Whore Jinx by this time) should have asked themselves why if this design was so damn good would Sterling give up on it and instead get a license from Armalite for a totally different gun. In the end, Frank Waters was no Eugene Stoner, and we can chalk this up to yet another in a long series of CIS/ST blunders.

P.S. I forgot to mention to that one of the main reasons for CIS getting the STirling design was the cost. CIS was making the M-16 under license in those days for USD$540 per gun, part of the cost being the licensing fee for each gun. They were making the SAR-80 for $200 less, big difference if you intend to sell 200,000 to the SAF.

Carbine or CAR 15, a variant of M16 with round handguards, Al alloy telescopic buttstock beats SAR 60 hands down..... it was reverse engineered and hence no payment of royalty to Colts Industries........ They were used by commandos for a period

 

[Hans168]

Daniel Goh could not design a toilet if his life depended on it. SAR-80 was originally a Sterling design, by their chief engineer Frank Waters. Stirling at that time was famous for its Sterling Mk 4 9mm submachine gun. They decided to get into the 5.56mm game as that was the future universal NATO calibre. Their design was so crap that they decide not to pursue it and instead licensed with Armalite to build the AR-18 in their factory. Along came CIS who had capacity in its AR-15/M-16 factory, after having fulfilled the SAF's order. Because they could not sell the AR-15 to other countries due to the licensing agreement, they decided to look around for other weapons they could manufacture and sell overseas as well as sell to the SAF.

They decided to buy the Stirling design and call it the SAR-80. The design was crap. It was ergonomically bad, it was heavy and it was poorly made. Even the version with the folding stock was heavier then the AR-15. I was in the first unit to trial this weapon. The original idea was to issue the compact version (folding stock) to the Commandoes and to Armour. But it was decided to quickly kill the whole project because it was crap. Only 20,000 was ever build. The morons at CIS (might have been Whore Jinx by this time) should have asked themselves why if this design was so damn good would Sterling give up on it and instead get a license from Armalite for a totally different gun. In the end, Frank Waters was no Eugene Stoner, and we can chalk this up to yet another in a long series of CIS/ST blunders.

P.S. I forgot to mention to that one of the main reasons for CIS getting the STirling design was the cost. CIS was making the M-16 under license in those days for USD$540 per gun, part of the cost being the licensing fee for each gun. They were making the SAR-80 for $200 less, big difference if you intend to sell 200,000 to the SAF.

at that time Sterling factory was on sale for a song.............

 

[Hans168]

Volunteer army was conned by Phillip Yeo in buying 10k, where is the remainder???Scrap yard??

 

[Papsmearer]

i think sinkies are a failure even when it comes to entrepreneurship and business.how many world class businesses or companies have we build?or mncs with a global presence?the biggest company we have is singtel with a market cap of 60 bil,even then singtel only has a market presence or interest in regional countries.most of our big name singapore companies are state funded companies and most of them were derived from fundamental needs and already had a ready market in need of their services,things like transportation,banking,telecommunications,utilities,waste disposal,real estate etc etc.how many companies were derived from innovation or high tech industries that needs to stay ahead of the curve or are able to compete in the global markets?all we have are monopolies grown in a isolated cacoon,a insulated bubble.

but lucky the only saving redemption of singapore is chinks love money,otherwise we be a stinking shithole like indoland and mudland.

If you are looking for successful sinkie businessmen and entreprenuers, you cannot look for them in singapore. Most of them are doing very well and running sizeable companies out of singapore. I know quite a few successful sinkies owning companies in China, HKG, Jakarta, etc.. All quite rich and doing well. But hardly come back to singapore. The really good ones cannot be bothered to set up in singapore. why deal with red tape, PAP porlumpars and small market?

 

[Papsmearer]

Carbine or CAR 15, a variant of M16 with round handguards, Al alloy telescopic buttstock beats SAR 60 hands down..... it was reverse engineered and hence no payment of royalty to Colts Industries........ They were used by commandos for a period

Not true. I know this weapon very well. CAR-15 was bought in a small batch by the SAF as a second weapon for Commandoes and principal personal weapon for armour tankees only. It was for commandoes to be used for para drop operations and for tankees because of the compact size can fit in a tank easier. At that time, Uzi was contemplated because of the Jewish influence. But they decided that would be too much different ammo, Uzi using 9mm para and CAR-15 using the same 5.56mm as AR-15/M-16. The CAR-15 was not reversed engineered, I know this because the quality of the build was outstanding. In many cases better then the newer M4s that I have used. It was later developed into the M4 you see today. The main difference between the 2 is length. The CAR-15 being slightly shorter then the M4. The SAR-80 used a folding butt which was next to useless and very uncomfortable to use when opened up and fired. The CAR-15 telescopic butt was very comfortable, and you can comfortably fire from open or closed positions.

 

[Papsmearer]

at that time Sterling factory was on sale for a song.............

Really? I am not aware of that. CIS should have bought the whole company then. I believe they collapsed in 1989 and bought over by British Aerospace. But the problem was they made only the Sterling Mk 4 which was a great gun. But the world was switching to assault rifles and they did not have a product for that.

 

[Papsmearer]

Volunteer army was conned by Phillip Yeo in buying 10k, where is the remainder???Scrap yard??

10K what? SAR-80?

 

[Hans168]

10K what? SAR-80?

out of 20 000 rifles made, 10 000 sold to SDF or Singapore Defence Force ie group of clowns who volunteered as soldiers lik our MP Putucherry...
where is the balance of 10 000? in Afghanistan Or Myanmar Tribes?? OR written off inventory???

 

[Hans168]

Not true. I know this weapon very well. CAR-15 was bought in a small batch by the SAF as a second weapon for Commandoes and principal personal weapon for armour tankees only. It was for commandoes to be used for para drop operations and for tankees because of the compact size can fit in a tank easier. At that time, Uzi was contemplated because of the Jewish influence. But they decided that would be too much different ammo, Uzi using 9mm para and CAR-15 using the same 5.56mm as AR-15/M-16. The CAR-15 was not reversed engineered, I know this because the quality of the build was outstanding. In many cases better then the newer M4s that I have used. It was later developed into the M4 you see today. The main difference between the 2 is length. The CAR-15 being slightly shorter then the M4. The SAR-80 used a folding butt which was next to useless and very uncomfortable to use when opened up and fired. The CAR-15 telescopic butt was very comfortable, and you can comfortably fire from open or closed positions.

true
you must check with the correct person who is still alive today/////////////////////////////////////// LOL
I will PM you............there is OSA to watch out mate

 

[Hans168]

Really? I am not aware of that. CIS should have bought the whole company then. I believe they collapsed in 1989 and bought over by British Aerospace. But the problem was they made only the Sterling Mk 4 which was a great gun. But the world was switching to assault rifles and they did not have a product for that.

it was offered to GM CV Olsen who recommended to D Logistics Ong Kah Kok who din take the bait......th......
the factory was darn rundown as its days of glory was over with the credible sten gun///////////

 

[Pek Kim Lui]

Daniel Goh could not design a toilet if his life depended on it. SAR-80 was originally a Sterling design, by their chief engineer Frank Waters. Stirling at that time was famous for its Sterling Mk 4 9mm submachine gun. They decided to get into the 5.56mm game as that was the future universal NATO calibre. Their design was so crap that they decide not to pursue it and instead licensed with Armalite to build the AR-18 in their factory. Along came CIS who had capacity in its AR-15/M-16 factory, after having fulfilled the SAF's order. Because they could not sell the AR-15 to other countries due to the licensing agreement, they decided to look around for other weapons they could manufacture and sell overseas as well as sell to the SAF.

They decided to buy the Stirling design and call it the SAR-80. The design was crap. It was ergonomically bad, it was heavy and it was poorly made. Even the version with the folding stock was heavier then the AR-15. I was in the first unit to trial this weapon. The original idea was to issue the compact version (folding stock) to the Commandoes and to Armour. But it was decided to quickly kill the whole project because it was crap. Only 20,000 was ever build. The morons at CIS (might have been Whore Jinx by this time) should have asked themselves why if this design was so damn good would Sterling give up on it and instead get a license from Armalite for a totally different gun. In the end, Frank Waters was no Eugene Stoner, and we can chalk this up to yet another in a long series of CIS/ST blunders.

P.S. I forgot to mention to that one of the main reasons for CIS getting the STirling design was the cost. CIS was making the M-16 under license in those days for USD$540 per gun, part of the cost being the licensing fee for each gun. They were making the SAR-80 for $200 less, big difference if you intend to sell 200,000 to the SAF.

Dr Daniel Goh has an agenda in telling the know-nots that he was the designer of the Planet of the Ape rifle...... SAR 80
The same bluffs which got him promoted many times like those clowns behind the Bionix which NO country in the world wants to buy............ even free

 

[Pek Kim Lui]

Not true. I know this weapon very well. CAR-15 was bought in a small batch by the SAF as a second weapon for Commandoes and principal personal weapon for armour tankees only. It was for commandoes to be used for para drop operations and for tankees because of the compact size can fit in a tank easier. At that time, Uzi was contemplated because of the Jewish influence. But they decided that would be too much different ammo, Uzi using 9mm para and CAR-15 using the same 5.56mm as AR-15/M-16. The CAR-15 was not reversed engineered, I know this because the quality of the build was outstanding. In many cases better then the newer M4s that I have used. It was later developed into the M4 you see today. The main difference between the 2 is length. The CAR-15 being slightly shorter then the M4. The SAR-80 used a folding butt which was next to useless and very uncomfortable to use when opened up and fired. The CAR-15 telescopic butt was very comfortable, and you can comfortably fire from open or closed positions.

M4 does not hv neoprene rubber shoe at the butt end......... whereas CAR 15 ala CIS has................................... why?

 

[Pek Kim Lui]

Daniel Goh could not design a toilet if his life depended on it. SAR-80 was originally a Sterling design, by their chief engineer Frank Waters. Stirling at that time was famous for its Sterling Mk 4 9mm submachine gun. They decided to get into the 5.56mm game as that was the future universal NATO calibre. Their design was so crap that they decide not to pursue it and instead licensed with Armalite to build the AR-18 in their factory. Along came CIS who had capacity in its AR-15/M-16 factory, after having fulfilled the SAF's order. Because they could not sell the AR-15 to other countries due to the licensing agreement, they decided to look around for other weapons they could manufacture and sell overseas as well as sell to the SAF.

They decided to buy the Stirling design and call it the SAR-80. The design was crap. It was ergonomically bad, it was heavy and it was poorly made. Even the version with the folding stock was heavier then the AR-15. I was in the first unit to trial this weapon. The original idea was to issue the compact version (folding stock) to the Commandoes and to Armour. But it was decided to quickly kill the whole project because it was crap. Only 20,000 was ever build. The morons at CIS (might have been Whore Jinx by this time) should have asked themselves why if this design was so damn good would Sterling give up on it and instead get a license from Armalite for a totally different gun. In the end, Frank Waters was no Eugene Stoner, and we can chalk this up to yet another in a long series of CIS/ST blunders.

P.S. I forgot to mention to that one of the main reasons for CIS getting the STirling design was the cost. CIS was making the M-16 under license in those days for USD$540 per gun, part of the cost being the licensing fee for each gun. They were making the SAR-80 for $200 less, big difference if you intend to sell 200,000 to the SAF.

the cost drivers were M16 uses lots of Al alloy forgings vs SAR 80 using scrap iron metal sheets held together by TIG weldings
I am sure the barrel geometries are very close as they use same group of machines to cut them........ incl gundrilling and rifling

 

[Papsmearer]

Dr Daniel Goh has an agenda in telling the know-nots that he was the designer of the Planet of the Ape rifle...... SAR 80
The same bluffs which got him promoted many times like those clowns behind the Bionix which NO country in the world wants to buy............ even free

I thought that the SAR-80 was Lai Chun Loong's baby? Why he let Goh go around and bluff like that? Even at that time, they also represented to the SAF that they "designed it" and was local, but everyone knew it was a Stirling design. This SAR-80 and Bionix and even Terrex is symptomatic of what happened to the SAF under the PAP. Namely, the SAF is being told what they need, even though they are the customers and should be making the rules. Its the tail wagging the dog. In the case of the Bionix, after spending all the money on R & D, they force SAF to lan lan buy it, even though they are much better IFVs out there. This rule does seem to apply to the RSAF. They can have the best toys in the world to play with, the SAF has the toys they are told to play with. 2 very diffrent things.

Anyway, its good to chat with someone with the inside scoop like yourself.

 

[Papsmearer]

out of 20 000 rifles made, 10 000 sold to SDF or Singapore Defence Force ie group of clowns who volunteered as soldiers lik our MP Putucherry...
where is the balance of 10 000? in Afghanistan Or Myanmar Tribes?? OR written off inventory???

My understanding is that the first 20,000 as not accepted into frontline SAF service. Heard it was then issued to units like Marine Police, ammo dump guards and what not. An additional 80,000 - 100,000 manufactured and sold to war zone countries like SOmalia, Croatia, Slovenia, Sri Lanka, ETC. The difference between the domestic and export versions appear to be that the singapore issued version had the speckled finish on it. the surface of the weapon was rough, like someone someone had put some compound on it. The export version had a smooth black finish. Those who have fired or were issued with the SAR -80 will know what I am talking about.

 

[Papsmearer]

it was offered to GM CV Olsen who recommended to D Logistics Ong Kah Kok who din take the bait......th......
the factory was darn rundown as its days of glory was over with the credible sten gun///////////

Is it true that Olsen got called into Goh Keng Swee's office one day and was given a doorknob from a HDB flat and told to start making them in the CIS facilities? LOL. GKS logic being if you can make bullets and rifles, you sure as hell can make door knobs.

 

[Papsmearer]

M4 does not hv neoprene rubber shoe at the butt end......... whereas CAR 15 ala CIS has................................... why?

Why indeed? there is someone here who knows the reason. LOL.

 

[Papsmearer]

the cost drivers were M16 uses lots of Al alloy forgings vs SAR 80 using scrap iron metal sheets held together by TIG weldings
I am sure the barrel geometries are very close as they use same group of machines to cut them........ incl gundrilling and rifling

Yes, the main selling point was its cheapness. It was designed from the outset by Sterling to be cheap to make and hence low selling price. That would make sense that they use the M16 barrel.

what about the SR88? I have never used it, but understand its much improved from the SAR 80. Why was it not sold to the SAF, and adopted as standard issue weapon?

 

[Hans168]

I thought that the SAR-80 was Lai Chun Loong's baby? Why he let Goh go around and bluff like that? Even at that time, they also represented to the SAF that they "designed it" and was local, but everyone knew it was a Stirling design. This SAR-80 and Bionix and even Terrex is symptomatic of what happened to the SAF under the PAP. Namely, the SAF is being told what they need, even though they are the customers and should be making the rules. Its the tail wagging the dog. In the case of the Bionix, after spending all the money on R & D, they force SAF to lan lan buy it, even though they are much better IFVs out there. This rule does seem to apply to the RSAF. They can have the best toys in the world to play with, the SAF has the toys they are told to play with. 2 very diffrent things.

Anyway, its good to chat with someone with the inside scoop like yourself.

Lai Chun Loong the sex maniac was studying for his MBA in UCLA
CV Olsen was the GM who is Daniel Goh's godfather as they are from UK so to speak,,,,,,,,, so Daniel can lie as long as he swears God Saves the Queen......