Tang Dynasty people did not speak Mandarin !

[The_Hypocrite]

Thanks for the details.

白话 is the term used by non native Cantonese to describe Cantonese language

 

[Kinana]

Can you elaborate? Thank you.

Cantonese are yue tribes conquered by chinese n ended up sinonised, just like the Bai, Yi n manchurians in China today who look chinese n cant speak their language anymore

 

[Narong Wongwan]

Thanks for the details.

No idea why it's called white language though....

 

[Ash007]

Vietnam in Mandarin is 越南, yue-nan, south of yue, maybe that is a clue?

No...there were a large population of Cantonese living in what is known as cholon, aka Saigon & now Ho Chi Minh City...the vietnamese maybe incorporated some Cantonese into their spoken language..

 

[Froggy]

No idea why it's called white language though....

In China 白肉 means pork, hear alot of this in Xingjiang Muslim province, also don't know why.

 

[HTOLAS]

同乡！My father was Seiyup and my mother, Shun Tak. I understand some Seiyup and am ok with Shun Tak. When I visited my relatives in Malaysia over the CNY, it was so nice to hear some Seiyup being spoken among them.

As you said about the travel pattern of the Seiyup, my great-grandfather emigrated to Australia and built up a business which failed when my granddad took over. Long story short, they came over to SEA where my father was born and grew up.

Again, I'm glad for this thread. We may be far from perfect bearers of our forebears' languages, but let us at least not forget.

Seiyup or Taishanese..were the bulk of the people moving to North America...Australia...Seiyup has almost or completely died here, I have not heard Shun Tuck spoken for ages here..for the people of that generation have all died..even the "seiyup" people, if I am not mistaken, most of the "hong Tau Ping"..the women that worked in the construction industry in SINgapore were mostly "seiyup". My ancestors were from that region of Taishan, Gongzhou, I am the last of the "dinosaur" that can speak a little "seiyup", understand simple sentences..

 

[HTOLAS]

The influence was both ways. Some southern Chinese languages have grammatical structures that are closer to Vietnamese and Thai than with Mandarin. The same goes for vocabulary items; often the same words have different meanings.

No...there were a large population of Cantonese living in what is known as cholon, aka Saigon & now Ho Chi Minh City...the vietnamese maybe incorporated some Cantonese into their spoken language..

 

[moolightaffairs]

Bro this Yue tribes anything to do with Viets

yes, when Vietnam 越南 king asking permission from China Ming dynasty to claim sovereignty of Vietnam. He asked to name the country 南越 which means south of 越 which is in China. but 南越 already a name means southern part of 越. so Ming Emperor change the name to 越南 and the Vietnam king accepted it. that's how Vietnam 越南 comes about and not 南越 "namviet" .

 

[The_Hypocrite]

Another thing about hokkiens is they love criticising others..just to make themselves feel better. Also known as putting others down. Hokkeins are number 1 at that.

And to me hakkas are 'kan' like unscrupulous. That is the best exAMple of LKY. A person with no morals n maybe no heart as well. His humanity left him a long time ago. Hence the term vampire suits him well as he is alive due to his blood sucking activities. . Even the tin man is more humane than hik.

I doubt that's the hokkien stereotype.......calculative and stingy is more like LKY aka Hakka (sorrie if offend any bros).....
Hokkien in SEA might sound crude but original Taiwanese hokkien is also machiam poetry like Cantonese......
Me cantonese but all my best friends ex wife included is solid hokkien lang.

 

[Cosmos10]

Though I am not a Chinese. But i like to watch Teochew opera during those kampong days. May not really ustand wat they r saying/singing. But their high pitch tone sounds nice. Definitely sounds nicer than those beijing or mandarin opera, imo.

Never neglect or lost touch of ur own dialect. Be proud of where u come fm. Use or converse it at home. Pity most of the Chinese children nowadays. They cant even converse with their grand parents who cant speak Mandarin...

Hiya bro whoami, here is a little youtube Teochew opera for you to remember your nostalgic kampong days: Enjoy!

[video=youtube;bGG7YZ0SY2k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGG7YZ0SY2k[/video]

Since you said you are not a Chinese, I include a short synopsis here for you:

Mdm Qin with her 2 children came to the Imperial Capital to look for her husband Chen Shi Mei, the newly successful First Scholar. She discovered that her husband had abandoned her and their 2 children, and was then married to the Princess. He refused to acknowledge them, gave them money, and ordered them to go home and forget about him.

The GuangDong Teochew Opera Academy 2nd Company 广东潮剧院(二团) performed at the Lorong Koo Chai City-God Temple, Singapore 韮菜芭城隍庙 on 27th June 2010. Part of the Annual 100-day opera Birthday Observance Celebration of the City-God.

 

[Sideswipe]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Ji2-o3L-xoY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

i can't differentiate between hokkien and teochew songs.

 

[PUNISHER]

[video=youtube;W_is3mZuQvw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_is3mZuQvw&sns=em[/video]

 

[whoami]

Hiya bro whoami, here is a little youtube Teochew opera for you to remember your nostalgic kampong days: Enjoy!

Mdm Qin with her 2 children came to the Imperial Capital to look for her husband Chen Shi Mei, the newly successful First Scholar. She discovered that her husband had abandoned her and their 2 children, and was then married to the Princess. He refused to acknowledge them, gave them money, and ordered them to go home and forget about him.

Tks dude for tat video clip.

Following oso 1 of my favourites opera show..Mdm White Snake. But nothing beats watching such shows in the open padang/field. The sight of carts selling ngoh hian, steam ground nuts, drinks, etc....sure bring back fond memories of kampong opera ya..:p:(

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEc7uZLiopE&list=PL87AC159B1FF26897

 

[PUNISHER]

[video=youtube;jc5EYN56qmk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc5EYN56qmk&sns=em[/video]

 

[bluewolf]

HOKKIEN IS ONE OF THE FEW SURVIVING CHINESE LANGUAGES FROM THE TANG DYNASTY

If you're a Hokkien, do you know Hokkien is the Ancient Imperial Language of China - over 1,000 Years Ago.

If you're a HOKKIEN Take Note !!

You'll be Surprised. You have heard it. You, your parents, or grandparents may still be speaking this ancient, archaic language!

Yes, it's HOKKIEN (Fujian/Minnan Hua 福建话/闽南话)

Hokkien is:

1. The surviving language of the Tang Dynasty (唐朝, 618 - 907 A.D.), China 's Golden Age of Culture.

Note: The Hokkien we hear today may have "evolved" from its original form thousand of years ago, but it still retains the main elements of the Tang Dynasty Language.

2. Hokkiens are the surviving descendants of the Tang Dynasty -- When the Tang Dynasty collapsed, the people of the Tang Dynasty fled South and sought refuge in the Hokkien ( Fujian 福建省) province. Hence, Hokkien called themselves Tng-lang (唐人（比喻为唐朝子孙） Tang Ren or People of the Tang Dynasty) instead of Hua Lang (华人 Hua Ren).

3. Hokkien has 8 tones instead of Mandarin's 4. Linguists claim that ancient languages tend to have more complex tones.

4. Hokkien retains the ancient Chinese pronunciation of "K-sounding" endings (for instance, 学生 Hak Seng (student), 大学 Tua Ok (university), 读册 Thak Chek (read a book/study) -- the "k" sounding ending is not found in Mandarin.

5. The collection of the famous "Three Hundred Tang Dynasty Poems" (唐诗三百首) sound better when recited in Hokkien/Teochew if compared to Mandarin.

6. Consider this for a moment: Today, the Hokkien Nam Yim Ochestral performance still has its roots in ancient Tang dynasty music. Here's the proof: The formation of today Nam Yim ensemble is typically seen in ancient Tang dynasty paintings of musicians.

More Astonishingly:
Although not genetically-related, Hokkiens, Koreans and Japanese share many similar words (which are different from Mandarin). Example: News - 新闻 Shim Bun, World - 世界 Se Kai in Japanese)

That's because Hokkien was the official language of the powerful Tang Dynasty whose influence and language spread to Japan and Korea (just like Latin – where many words were borrowed by the English, French, Italian, etc).


To all 49 Million Hokkien Speakers:

Be Proud of Your Ancient Hokkien Heritage & Language! Speak it Loud and Clear. Teach Your Future Generation this Imperial Language, Less it Fades Away. Be Proud Children of the Tang Emperors.

To all Mandarin-speaking friends out there -- do not look down on your other Chinese friends who do not speak Mandarin – whom you guys fondly refer to as "Bananas". In fact, they are speaking a language which is much more ancient & linguistically complicated than Mandarin.

Keep in mind that Mandarin is just:

1. A Northern Chinese dialect 北方话 (heavily influenced by non-Han Chinese) that was elevated to the status of National Language by Sun Yat Sen (孙中山，原名孙逸仙) for the sake of China’s national unity.

2. Mandarin was never spoken by your proud, imperial Tang Dynasty ancestors. It was probably spoken by the Northern (Non-Han 北方民族) Jurchen (女真族), Mongols (蒙古族) and Manchu (满族(女真族的后代)) minority. Start speaking the language of your ancestors today.

All unsubstantiated statements... People who fled the north to seek refuge in the southern provinces are called..... Hakkas. Hokkiens are the indigenous people of the provinces.

Japanese and Koreans are even more similar to Hakka, and many Japanese are actually descendents of Chinese and Korean immigrants. So they are genetically related.

 

[Qantas]

Teochew nang. Ka ki nang

[video=youtube;x60ZWyzulw8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x60ZWyzulw8[/video]

Teochew nang, kar chng ang ang rhymes better

 

[Sinkie]

This is a great thread. Wish it goes on and on and better still, stickie it.

I like to know the details of why Thailand so many Teochews, both speak like kuniangs also.
How Malays are descended from Yunnan, migrate to Taiwan and then down to Indonesia and Malaysia and Phillipines.

How Australia aborigines look like Orang Asli.

How come Hakka houses are round.

Why Red Indians are actually red in color, no kidding.

Why people of Yunnan has the story of the great flood and why chinese characters contain 8 people on a boat, etc.

Very colorful history. Beats talking about the Aryan-Indus civilization, which is nothing compared to all these.

 

[wuqi256]

I am Hokkien but seems i speak more Teochew than Hokkien these days as most of my father relatives are Teochew.
Maybe some of these links may help:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Chinese

Ming Dynasty language used by officials:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICJtNEUrUiY

Middle (using Li Bai's poem as an illustration)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVw9iyq59zo

Even older (Sounds a bit Vietnamese):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bqt3_02lxGo

This may be useful:
中古漢語語音教程
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djTrdguRzOI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NKIT-EOfSU
Once heard that the term came about as Vietnam was the place that the Qin emperor banished folks/merchants to the lands south of the State of Yue but i may well be wrong.

 

[wuqi256]

If not for the Xinhai revolution and the subsequent turbulent changes in China, for many, this would probably still be the national anthem:

Original
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wc9PEJMFeR4

Midi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yb1sI2sErI8

巩金瓯

原文

鞏金甌
承天幬
民物欣鳧藻
喜同袍
清時幸遭
真熙皞
帝國蒼穹保
天高高
海滔滔

語譯
國土如金甌鞏固，
受天覆庇。
民眾萬物如野鴨嬉於水藻般欣悅。
喜見同袍
有幸遇著太平時世，
真是和樂自得。
帝國蒙上蒼保佑。
青天高高在上，
大海翻騰不息

 

[Capano2121]

Hi TS,

Thank you very much... With your education u-tube vcd. I now know that the 8 tones for hokkien is "kan ni lao bu a chao chee by"... very educational indeed!!

The correct 8 tones for hokkien should be "GAN POA LIN LAO BU CHAO CHEE BYE"!