Stallholders in row with Workers Party town council

[aurvandil]

I think you misunderstand my point. I agree fully on the need to provide subsidised rentals and other rates to keep hawker fare affordable. My point is why should the subsidies be coming from the TCs whose main source of income is from the S&C fees paid by HDB residents. This allows rich Singaporeans who live in pte property to free ride on the backs of poorer familes that live in HDB flats. Any subsidies to NEA hawker centres should come from the budget of NEA via taxes paid by all Singaporeans.

This has been long held principle as the residents need the hawkers rather than their other way around. Many hawkers can't make it if commercial rents are applied. Its a bit of give and take. Its political suicide if
hawker centre and markets are run along commercial lines. Since independence their representatives have been significant figures in CCC.

 

[scroobal]

Apologies. Agree with you. In fact that was the case when it came from HDB via MND. Yes, it serves the general public.

I think you misunderstand my point. I agree fully on the need to provide subsidised rentals and other rates to keep hawker fare affordable. My point is why should the subsidies be coming from the TCs whose main source of income is from the S&C fees paid by HDB residents. This allows rich Singaporeans who live in pte property to free ride on the backs of poorer familes that live in HDB flats. Any subsidies to NEA hawker centres should come from the budget of NEA via taxes paid by all Singaporeans.

 

[tanwahp]

My point is why should the subsidies be coming from the TCs whose main source of income is from the S&C fees paid by HDB residents. This allows rich Singaporeans who live in pte property to free ride on the backs of poorer familes that live in HDB flats. Any subsidies to NEA hawker centres should come from the budget of NEA via taxes paid by all Singaporeans.

That's a good point. Why should NEA push to the town council if they themselves are supposed to upkeep the hawker centre.

 

[winnipegjets]

That's a good point. Why should NEA push to the town council if they themselves are supposed to upkeep the hawker centre.

In their quest to mess up the opposition, the PAP didn't figure out the intricacies ...that's why we are left with this mess.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

The stallholders pay monthly S&C fees to the TC as well.

Goh Meng Seng

I think you misunderstand my point. I agree fully on the need to provide subsidised rentals and other rates to keep hawker fare affordable. My point is why should the subsidies be coming from the TCs whose main source of income is from the S&C fees paid by HDB residents. This allows rich Singaporeans who live in pte property to free ride on the backs of poorer familes that live in HDB flats. Any subsidies to NEA hawker centres should come from the budget of NEA via taxes paid by all Singaporeans.

 

[aurvandil]

According to WP, what the hawkers are paying is insufficient to cover the cost of cleaning the high places. WP is therefore asking for an increase. My hypothesis is that the PAP TCs were able to absorb these costs becauuse they were paying for these expenses out of the S&C fees collected from those living in HDB flats. As mentioned before, many of these hawker associations are a key part of the PAP grassroots machinery. This row erupted because after taking over the TCs, WP is putting a stop to such crony practices.

The stallholders pay monthly S&C fees to the TC as well.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Seee3]

According to WP, what the hawkers are paying is insufficient to cover the cost of cleaning the high places. WP is therefore asking for an increase. My hypothesis is that the PAP TCs were able to absorb these costs becauuse they were paying for these expenses out of the S&C fees collected from those living in HDB flats. As mentioned before, many of these hawker associations are a key part of the PAP grassroots machinery. This row erupted because after taking over the TCs, WP is putting a stop to such crony practices.

Sc/cc for cooked food stall is about $170 while 3-rm is about $60 and exe flat is about $85. Do you think it is a reasonable fee for the food stall?

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

I do not think this is the case. It is more like WP AHTC put up their contract terms very differently to do,it cheap.

Providing scaffolding is not that expensive considering the amount of money collected for the whole year. In fact, the TC could buy and keep the scaffolding for many other usage in terms of small repairs n maintenance, other than cleaning hawker centers.

Professional contractors should have the necessary equipment including scaffolding. Part n parcel of their contractual work. These are durable equipment. Most likely, the contractor they engaged lack professionalism.

Goh Meng Seng

According to WP, what the hawkers are paying is insufficient to cover the cost of cleaning the high places. WP is therefore asking for an increase. My hypothesis is that the PAP TCs were able to absorb these costs becauuse they were paying for these expenses out of the S&C fees collected from those living in HDB flats. As mentioned before, many of these hawker associations are a key part of the PAP grassroots machinery. This row erupted because after taking over the TCs, WP is putting a stop to such crony practices.

 

[Bigfuck]

Good making shit, finger licking good to himself again strikes again. Tries to talk like a pro in this business when understand nuts. A good politician is one who gets into parliament not make sour grape comments in the background. GMS is welcome to prove himself like the parrot man or Desmond Lim at the next elections. We will all know how good he is in the other spectrum of votes.

 

[winnipegjets]

The WP TC should ban the operations of the RCs and all the resident associations started by the PAP.

 

[Bigfuck]

The WP TC should ban the operations of the RCs and all the resident associations started by the PAP.

I am in full agreement.　Everyone else knows how to play this game.

 

[leetahbah]

It is more like WP AHTC put up their contract terms very differently to do,it cheap.

:

Most likely, the contractor they engaged lack professionalism.

Goh Meng Seng

The Workers Party Town Council engaged a contractor that is incapable of doing a complete job. They did not go through the terms of the contract carefully. If they had reviewed the contract to ensure that the cleaning includes the ceiling and ceiling fixtures, then there would be no issues for WP TC or the stallholders. It is then the contractor's responsibility to get the scaffolding equipment to clean the ceiling and ceiling fixtures, failing which the contractor is in breach of the contract.

 

[winnipegjets]

The Workers Party Town Council engaged a contractor that is incapable of doing a complete job. They did not go through the terms of the contract carefully. If they had reviewed the contract to ensure that the cleaning includes the ceiling and ceiling fixtures, then there would be no issues for WP TC or the stallholders. It is then the contractor's responsibility to get the scaffolding equipment to clean the ceiling and ceiling fixtures, failing which the contractor is in breach of the contract.

If the contractor is kah kee nan to the WP, then this problem can be easily resolved.

 

[leetahbah]

If the contractor is kah kee nan to the WP, then this problem can be easily resolved.

That, regardless of their kah kee nan, does not change the fact that the Workers Party Town Council did not go through the terms of the contract carefully to ensure that the cleaning includes the ceiling and ceiling fixtures.

 

[aurvandil]

As mentioned by Scroo, the rental and other fees paid by hawkers in NEA hawker centres is way below market rates. The rationale for the subsidies is to keep hawker fare affordable. NEA provides subsidies via lower rental. These subsidies are borne by all Singapore tax payers. The maintainence and upkeep of the hawker centres are done by the TCs. The subsidies therefore come from the S&C of HDB residents.

If the hawkers think it is too expensive, they can always approach the TCs as a group and take over the cleaning and maintainence of the hawker centres. The fact that this is not done is because the rates they are currently paying are too low to make it commercially viable for them to do it themselves.

Sc/cc for cooked food stall is about $170 while 3-rm is about $60 and exe flat is about $85. Do you think it is a reasonable fee for the food stall?

 

[aurvandil]

A contract minus the cleaning of high places would naturally be cheaper. The fundamental question however is if it is fair for the cleaning and maintainence of NEA hawker centres to be subsidised by the S&C of HDB residents while the rich living in pte property get to freeload.

I do not think this is the case. It is more like WP AHTC put up their contract terms very differently to do,it cheap.

Providing scaffolding is not that expensive considering the amount of money collected for the whole year. In fact, the TC could buy and keep the scaffolding for many other usage in terms of small repairs n maintenance, other than cleaning hawker centers.

Professional contractors should have the necessary equipment including scaffolding. Part n parcel of their contractual work. These are durable equipment. Most likely, the contractor they engaged lack professionalism.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

According to the report, there are two conflicting information. One is that they wanted the hawkers to provide the scaffolding, second is that they will not clean above 2.5m.

But according to HG's experience, the first one more likely. Thus, it is just the scaffolding provision. Thus, it can be concluded that it is a matter of professionalism. Scaffolding is not some SPECIAL equipment that cost too much. As stated, even the TC can provide it.

The S&C charges each hawkers pay is not low at all. It is typically higher or double of a typical 3 room flat. This has been pointed out by someone here. The washing is scheduled for 5 days every 6 months, the cost is most probably more to the hawkers who have to stop doing business and suffer a loss revenue and income. Thus, such small matter of scaffolding is a big hoohaa to them. Apparently, the problem here is unprofessional handling of the whole issue.

I do not think there is any cross subsidy of residents to the hawker centre. Even if there are, it is really minimum.

I suspect this issue is a matter of penny wise, pound foolish.

Goh Meng Seng

A contract minus the cleaning of high places would naturally be cheaper. The fundamental question however is if it is fair for the cleaning and maintainence of NEA hawker centres to be subsidised by the S&C of HDB residents while the rich living in pte property get to freeload.

 

[aurvandil]

In terms of man hours deployed per stall/flat, it would appear that the cook food stalls is very much higher than just double that of a 3 room flat.

The S&C charges each hawkers pay is not low at all. It is typically higher or double of a typical 3 room flat. ...

I do not think there is any cross subsidy of residents to the hawker centre. Even if there are, it is really minimum.

 

[IamTiong]

According to the report, there are two conflicting information. One is that they wanted the hawkers to provide the scaffolding, second is that they will not clean above 2.5m.

But according to HG's experience, the first one more likely. Thus, it is just the scaffolding provision. Thus, it can be concluded that it is a matter of professionalism. Scaffolding is not some SPECIAL equipment that cost too much. As stated, even the TC can provide it.

The S&C charges each hawkers pay is not low at all. It is typically higher or double of a typical 3 room flat. This has been pointed out by someone here. The washing is scheduled for 5 days every 6 months, the cost is most probably more to the hawkers who have to stop doing business and suffer a loss revenue and income. Thus, such small matter of scaffolding is a big hoohaa to them. Apparently, the problem here is unprofessional handling of the whole issue.

I do not think there is any cross subsidy of residents to the hawker centre. Even if there are, it is really minimum.

I suspect this issue is a matter of penny wise, pound foolish.

Goh Meng Seng

Maybe becos the MP is malay? So offend the stall owners

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Not really. If you observe, most hawker centres are near the refuse collection station. i.e. reduction in man hour. Besides, the S&C only cover rubbish collection, the hawkers pay for their own cleaners within the hawker centre to collect plates and such.

If the bi-annual cleaning is scheduled for 5 days, I do not think it should exclude the exhaust pipes. The contract itself will and must put up this simple fact that it is a 5 days job. If so, there is basically little or no "extra-costing" in terms of labour needed.

Thus, the conclusion is that the contractor or AHTC is just giving a stupid excuse to do just a day work to skive. Even if the scaffolding is an issue, they should communicate with the hawkers but apparently it was not done. It just shows plain unprofessional work attitude. They are supposed to provide "services and solutions" but in the end, what they have provided is just plain blame pushing and shifting. It is really an irony to their name.

Goh Meng Seng

In terms of man hours deployed per stall/flat, it would appear that the cook food stalls is very much higher than just double that of a 3 room flat.