My reason for saying that the son of a PR should only do voluntary NS, is because he did not choose to be born in Singapore, and it was perhaps only through chance that his parents had remained here.
============================================
NS: Bond way out for genuine emigrants?
THE plight of the Norwegian Bugge brothers was highlighted in The Straits Times ('Give up citizenship? Brothers must do NS first', Aug 25) and Mr O.M. Bugge (the father) has even written an account of his family's predicament in an online forum.
The Bugge brothers are sons of a Norwegian father and Singaporean mother and automatically became Singapore citizens when born here as per the law then. They spent much of their early childhood and adolescence in Norway and came back to Singapore after being away for 10 years. They then left again for good after their O levels and have been in Norway since. They served a 19-month-long national service (NS) in Norway and two of them subsequently became professional soldiers.
Singapore's Enlistment Act and immigration laws have put the brothers in an awkward Catch-22 situation. Although they had always intended to renounce Singapore citizenship, they were unable to do so until they were 21 years old and only after enlisting in Singapore's NS when they turned 16� years. They risk arrest if they visit their parents here.
Beside the Bugge brothers, there are other bona fide cases where the whole family unit has already migrated but the male children have to stay back to do their NS, only to renounce their citizenship when they turn 21. I believe in the necessity of NS - but only for Singaporeans and permanent residents who consider Singapore home.
For those caught in the bureaucratic web like the Bugge brothers, may I suggest the following:
In bona fide cases with clear evidence that the family has already uprooted from Singapore, or in complicated cases like that of the Bugge brothers, a bond of, say, $75,000 or half the combined income of the parents - whichever is higher - should be paid when the boy reaches enlistment age of 16� years. He will not do NS and, when he renounces his citizenship at 21 and has left for his new country, the money is returned and we have gained a friend.
(The sum of $75,000, or half the parents' income, was the amount paid as bond for pre-enlistees who were allowed to complete their university course overseas before NS. This is no longer allowed.)
However, if on reaching 21, the boy changes his mind about renunciation, the bond is forfeited and he has to do NS like everyone else. NS should be the proud duty of every Singaporean man, not a form of slavery for a soon-to-be former Singaporean.
Dr Huang Shoou Chyuan
Latest comments
sons of SG citizen born overseas (eg in the USA) becomes a citizen of (USA) as well as SG citizen. The son will then have to drop one of the citizenship when age 21...by then NS would have been completed
Posted by: bumibumi at Mon Sep 08 16:15:49 SGT 2008
the law says that son of PR born in SG must do NS..it is citizenship by birth
Posted by: bumibumi at Mon Sep 08 16:13:05 SGT 2008
I believe that a better solution to the sons of PR's doing NS, would in fact be for the son to only have voluntary NS. But for the son of the son, if he was a Singapore citizen, it could be compulsory.
Strange as it may sound, you might still have quite a few of the boys doing NS. I for one would probably recommend that my own son does it, not because I support NS, but because I believe that it would instil a certain degree of discipline and enforce his sense of belonging, as he would have endured the same as his friends and peers.
My reason for saying that the son of a PR should only do voluntary NS, is because he did not choose to be born in Singapore, and it was perhaps only through chance that his parents had remained here.
Voluntary NS would then free the parents to live wherever they wish without the inconvenience and expense of perhaps having to move back to Singapore at some stage just to let their son serve his NS had they moved to another country in the meantime.
Posted by: areng at Mon Sep 08 12:45:55 SGT 2008
I have a Malaysian relative in exactly the same situation as Mr Bungge's family. They did let their sons escape doing NS here. Their sons finished their NS. Both went overseas to study. One came back. The other acquired a foreign citizenship subsequently and he leter came back to work in Singapore as a foreigner, no problem.
Why couldn't the Norwegian family do the same, especially when they were happy enough to let their childfen come back to study in a local government school?
Don't talk about freedom of choice lah, when its more like milking the most out of both countries.
Posted by: silaterangy at Mon Sep 08 12:06:53 SGT 2008
#8
Quote:
Their status as Dual Citizens only came up much later, after returning to singapore and applying for Student Passes so they could get into schools here.
Your clarification cleared some points but raised more questions on others.
How did they end up with Singapore pink ICs after applying for Student Passes? If they had pink ICs, they won't need student passes.
Student passes are for foreigners who are not PRs, and do not have a Dependant Pass.
http://comment.straitstimes.com/show...t=13302&page=8
#79
Quote:
When we returned to Singapore in 1990 they were still regarded as foreigners and could not get a place in Government Schools.
Not automatically, but they could apply if they had student pass or dependant pass.
Quote:
After several months of applying for Student Passes they were finally accepted as dual citizens, with a right to remain and study in Singapore until 21. They were given pink I/C but NOT asked to give up their Norwegian citizenship.
How on earth were they issued pink ICs if your family did not apply for it?
And how could the family missed the crucial point that getting the pink ICs for them means they will be obliged to do NS in Singapore?
Quote:
As soon as possible thereafter they were enrolled in Private Schools.
After all the trouble about Student Pass and pink ICs and not getting a place in government school, they are enrolled in private schools instead?
Quote:
as that did not cut any ice with MINDEF we applied for deferment for him to complete his study in Norway, which was granted.
So you applied for deferment when told Singapore NS was required anyway.
Quote:
Dual citizenship for adults are only allowed in special circumstances by both countries.
Maybe for Norway, but not for Singapore.
Mr Bugge, you have given a lot of information but show nothing to indicate why your children should not be subjected to their Singapore NS obligations.
Your mention of applying for deferment actually indicate you were trying to play around the rules and pull a fast one.
It seems like these kids were exclusively Norweigian citizens until you applied Singapore pink ICs for them - for reasons beyond understanding. Initially, it seemed like it was to get to a government school, but they ended up being enrolled in private schools instead.
Such muddleness is astonishing. Whatever mess is there today for you is your own making.
Posted by: coolbeagle at Mon Sep 08 12:06:46 SGT 2008
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============================================
NS: Bond way out for genuine emigrants?
THE plight of the Norwegian Bugge brothers was highlighted in The Straits Times ('Give up citizenship? Brothers must do NS first', Aug 25) and Mr O.M. Bugge (the father) has even written an account of his family's predicament in an online forum.
The Bugge brothers are sons of a Norwegian father and Singaporean mother and automatically became Singapore citizens when born here as per the law then. They spent much of their early childhood and adolescence in Norway and came back to Singapore after being away for 10 years. They then left again for good after their O levels and have been in Norway since. They served a 19-month-long national service (NS) in Norway and two of them subsequently became professional soldiers.
Singapore's Enlistment Act and immigration laws have put the brothers in an awkward Catch-22 situation. Although they had always intended to renounce Singapore citizenship, they were unable to do so until they were 21 years old and only after enlisting in Singapore's NS when they turned 16� years. They risk arrest if they visit their parents here.
Beside the Bugge brothers, there are other bona fide cases where the whole family unit has already migrated but the male children have to stay back to do their NS, only to renounce their citizenship when they turn 21. I believe in the necessity of NS - but only for Singaporeans and permanent residents who consider Singapore home.
For those caught in the bureaucratic web like the Bugge brothers, may I suggest the following:
In bona fide cases with clear evidence that the family has already uprooted from Singapore, or in complicated cases like that of the Bugge brothers, a bond of, say, $75,000 or half the combined income of the parents - whichever is higher - should be paid when the boy reaches enlistment age of 16� years. He will not do NS and, when he renounces his citizenship at 21 and has left for his new country, the money is returned and we have gained a friend.
(The sum of $75,000, or half the parents' income, was the amount paid as bond for pre-enlistees who were allowed to complete their university course overseas before NS. This is no longer allowed.)
However, if on reaching 21, the boy changes his mind about renunciation, the bond is forfeited and he has to do NS like everyone else. NS should be the proud duty of every Singaporean man, not a form of slavery for a soon-to-be former Singaporean.
Dr Huang Shoou Chyuan
Latest comments
sons of SG citizen born overseas (eg in the USA) becomes a citizen of (USA) as well as SG citizen. The son will then have to drop one of the citizenship when age 21...by then NS would have been completed
Posted by: bumibumi at Mon Sep 08 16:15:49 SGT 2008
the law says that son of PR born in SG must do NS..it is citizenship by birth
Posted by: bumibumi at Mon Sep 08 16:13:05 SGT 2008
I believe that a better solution to the sons of PR's doing NS, would in fact be for the son to only have voluntary NS. But for the son of the son, if he was a Singapore citizen, it could be compulsory.
Strange as it may sound, you might still have quite a few of the boys doing NS. I for one would probably recommend that my own son does it, not because I support NS, but because I believe that it would instil a certain degree of discipline and enforce his sense of belonging, as he would have endured the same as his friends and peers.
My reason for saying that the son of a PR should only do voluntary NS, is because he did not choose to be born in Singapore, and it was perhaps only through chance that his parents had remained here.
Voluntary NS would then free the parents to live wherever they wish without the inconvenience and expense of perhaps having to move back to Singapore at some stage just to let their son serve his NS had they moved to another country in the meantime.
Posted by: areng at Mon Sep 08 12:45:55 SGT 2008
I have a Malaysian relative in exactly the same situation as Mr Bungge's family. They did let their sons escape doing NS here. Their sons finished their NS. Both went overseas to study. One came back. The other acquired a foreign citizenship subsequently and he leter came back to work in Singapore as a foreigner, no problem.
Why couldn't the Norwegian family do the same, especially when they were happy enough to let their childfen come back to study in a local government school?
Don't talk about freedom of choice lah, when its more like milking the most out of both countries.
Posted by: silaterangy at Mon Sep 08 12:06:53 SGT 2008
#8
Quote:
Their status as Dual Citizens only came up much later, after returning to singapore and applying for Student Passes so they could get into schools here.
Your clarification cleared some points but raised more questions on others.
How did they end up with Singapore pink ICs after applying for Student Passes? If they had pink ICs, they won't need student passes.
Student passes are for foreigners who are not PRs, and do not have a Dependant Pass.
http://comment.straitstimes.com/show...t=13302&page=8
#79
Quote:
When we returned to Singapore in 1990 they were still regarded as foreigners and could not get a place in Government Schools.
Not automatically, but they could apply if they had student pass or dependant pass.
Quote:
After several months of applying for Student Passes they were finally accepted as dual citizens, with a right to remain and study in Singapore until 21. They were given pink I/C but NOT asked to give up their Norwegian citizenship.
How on earth were they issued pink ICs if your family did not apply for it?
And how could the family missed the crucial point that getting the pink ICs for them means they will be obliged to do NS in Singapore?
Quote:
As soon as possible thereafter they were enrolled in Private Schools.
After all the trouble about Student Pass and pink ICs and not getting a place in government school, they are enrolled in private schools instead?
Quote:
as that did not cut any ice with MINDEF we applied for deferment for him to complete his study in Norway, which was granted.
So you applied for deferment when told Singapore NS was required anyway.
Quote:
Dual citizenship for adults are only allowed in special circumstances by both countries.
Maybe for Norway, but not for Singapore.
Mr Bugge, you have given a lot of information but show nothing to indicate why your children should not be subjected to their Singapore NS obligations.
Your mention of applying for deferment actually indicate you were trying to play around the rules and pull a fast one.
It seems like these kids were exclusively Norweigian citizens until you applied Singapore pink ICs for them - for reasons beyond understanding. Initially, it seemed like it was to get to a government school, but they ended up being enrolled in private schools instead.
Such muddleness is astonishing. Whatever mess is there today for you is your own making.
Posted by: coolbeagle at Mon Sep 08 12:06:46 SGT 2008
Warning: Any user who posts offensive or irrelevant comments will be banned from this Discussion Board.
» View all (12) comments
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