Singaporeans leaving Singapore: Are we the "villians"?

[Ash007]

Yup, only the "lower" quality Indians seem to be in Singapore. Half of my colleague in my department are originally from India and yet I don't see any issue with them. One of them even moved back from UK because he can't stand the weather in London.

There are 3 countries that fall in this boat - India, Philippines and China. The bubble burst around 2000 when qualifications and quality of work was found to be suspect. It has been a painful lesson for the world to learn that cheap is not after all good. US employers began canceling their work visas of these chaps based on cancellation of projects / workload rather than the contentious grounds of performance.

These same people began surfacing from 2003 in Singapore and getting employed because of their US employment and Singapore liberal stand on FTs. Because of their parochial habits, friends and relatives are also brought in. Really a sad story.

 

[neddy]

One's eyes begin to open when you come to know that the children of many members of the ruling party and the senior ranks of the civil service are living and working abroad. These are never reported or revealed in the press. You begin to question the concepts of nationality and loyalty when you realise that many are having dual citizenship or have PR status. Then you discover that these kids are given employment in overseas companies purchased by Temasek and GIC.

Its goes to show that people are playing in the global pond and happily claiming loyal Singaporeans.

The world is everyone's oyster, just make the best of it.

Even on the domestic flight from CAI to ALY (short for Alexandria, Egypt), I saw China people holding the Singapore RED passports. These people turned around when I speak Singlish lah, only to find that the only Singapore-born from the flight flashed a blue passport at Alex airport security.

Such is the mobility of humans.

Even Egyptians are complaining about their modern kids - similar compaints I hear from Singaporean and Aussie parents.

 

[scroobal]

Good example of the mobility of man and a hilarious one at that.

Even on the domestic flight from CAI to ALY (short for Alexandria, Egypt), I saw China people holding the Singapore RED passports. These people turned around when I speak Singlish lah, only to find that the only Singapore-born from the flight flashed a blue passport at Alex airport security.

 

[neddy]

Singaporeans leaving are those seeking employment, not enterprenuers type. The more these type of people leaving the better it is.

correction on my previous reply.

Singapore enterprenuers - how innovative are these people, or are they simply renter-seekers?

 

[axe168]

i think you got it wrong. It is the whole SG society that is addicted to cheap labour.

IN fact, i 'm all for minimum wage, raise it so that a local chap can earn a decent income for his family, instead of the pitiful $600 a month that is being offered.

But with minimum income that will also means that your chicken rice and wanton noodle is $7.50 a plate. Can you handle it?

Minimum wage will cause inflation to rise quickly. Pls consider..

I think it'll be better if the govt is giving away free health care & pension/welfare for our fellow sinkie mates. I'm sure some senior ministars or civil servants are already enjoying their pensions.. why not apply to the rest of the Singaporean ?

Sinkies do not wana have more kids due to uncertainty.. they dare not venture bcoz they have nothing to fall back, in the event of failure.. Creativity, innovation and R&D are at stake !

Health care, Pension and welfare provide safety nets for its ppl..

It will be rather unusual for PAPpies to "give".. they are likely to "take".. and gamble it away via investments :( even the town councils are gambling these days..

There is a saying.. "You can't change the soup, if you don't change the Cook !" I support the change (in leadership).

 

[neddy]

Minimum wage will cause inflation to rise quickly. Pls consider..

I think it'll be better if the govt is giving away free health care & pension/welfare for our fellow sinkie mates. I'm sure some senior ministars or civil servants are already enjoying their pensions.. why not apply to the rest of the Singaporean ?

There is a saying.. "You can't change the soup, if you don't change the Cook !" I support the change (in leadership).

..... The results of the various studies have shown that Minimum wages simply make Mcjobs disappear, eg lift attendents, greeters at emporiums.

New studies on America shows how cheap labor costs is depressing wages and making middle class America disappear. The proportion of labor component in low work positions is higher than executive position.

We have a situation where executive pays are ridiculous because there is no labor component and thus, no tangible measure of work unit - short term profit is now frowned as a proper measure.

The resulting large Ginti index dispredencies will bring us back to the dark industrial age.

 

[axe168]

..... The results of the various studies have shown that Minimum wages simply make Mcjobs disappear, eg lift attendents, greeters at emporiums.

New studies on America shows how cheap labor costs is depressing wages and making middle class America disappear. The proportion of labor component in low work positions is higher than executive position.

We have a situation where executive pays are ridiculous because there is no labor component and thus, no tangible measure of work unit - short term profit is now frowned as a proper measure.

The resulting large Ginti index dispredencies will bring us back to the dark industrial age.

So whats ya suggestion for a change ?

I am paying bloody $100/day/student, for 3 uni students.. $250 for a skilled china carpenter.. & $400 for electrician.. Last weekend I paid almost $2k for Sat and Sunday work. min wage is killing me.. Ouch !

 

[IR123]

Minimum wage will cause inflation to rise quickly.


There is a saying.. "You can't change the soup, if you don't change the Cook !" I support the change (in leadership).

You are right.

Those who supported minimum wage have probably not understood that fact.



I too support a change in leadership.

It is just that the alternative leaders are just too useless.

For this case, the only solution is boil your own soup and not rely on the leaders.

 

[fishbuff]

So whats ya suggestion for a change ?

I am paying bloody $100/day/student, for 3 uni students.. $250 for a skilled china carpenter.. & $400 for electrician.. Last weekend I paid almost $2k for Sat and Sunday work. min wage is killing me.. Ouch !

when the tradies see us (asians), first thing that comes to their mind is how to fleece us thinking we are gullible carrot heads. i got one vietnamese handyman refusing to itemsize the stuff that i want him to do and insist on lumpsum charging at $10k, not to mention about lying about the condition of the bathroom when in fact there is nothing wrong with it. they just want to rip us off.

tradies and agents are damn dodgy here.

 

[chewed]

Minimum wage will cause inflation to rise quickly. Pls consider..

I think it'll be better if the govt is giving away free health care & pension/welfare for our fellow sinkie mates. I'm sure some senior ministars or civil servants are already enjoying their pensions.. why not apply to the rest of the Singaporean ?

Sinkies do not wana have more kids due to uncertainty.. they dare not venture bcoz they have nothing to fall back, in the event of failure.. Creativity, innovation and R&D are at stake !

Health care, Pension and welfare provide safety nets for its ppl..

It will be rather unusual for PAPpies to "give".. they are likely to "take".. and gamble it away via investments :( even the town councils are gambling these days..

There is a saying.. "You can't change the soup, if you don't change the Cook !" I support the change (in leadership).

Axe,

yes, minimum wage will cause iunflation. But it's better to bite the bullet in the short term then to let this mess drag on. The longer we continue to artificially be "wage competitive" the more harm it's doing to SG and the economy.

 

[chewed]

You are right.

Those who supported minimum wage have probably not understood that fact.



I too support a change in leadership.

It is just that the alternative leaders are just too useless.

For this case, the only solution is boil your own soup and not rely on the leaders.

not understand the facts?

i think you really need to look at every angle. SG have been "competitive" due to this artifically suppressed low wage. We have been so addicted to this cheap wage that we have to import half a million of foreign workers to solve our needs cos simply, these low paying jobs can't feed a SG family.

and the SG government has just admitted last week that what ever economy growth we had in 2009 is due to the foreign workers. You still think we should go down this path?

and the best part is, i don't care cos i'm out of here. I only pity my friends who are stuck here.

 

[eatshitndie]

not understand the facts?

i think you really need to look at every angle. SG have been "competitive" due to this artifically suppressed low wage. We have been so addicted to this cheap wage that we have to import half a million of foreign workers to solve our needs cos simply, these low paying jobs can't feed a SG family.

and the SG government has just admitted last week that what ever economy growth we had in 2009 is due to the foreign workers. You still think we should go down this path?

and the best part is, i don't care cos i'm out of here. I only pity my friends who are stuck here.

by sticking with importation of cheap labor and the low wage mantra, it's another way of saying sg continues to value low level manufacturing and high value construction projects, which mean she will not meet her growth targets alone with her oft-mentioned strategy of going after the higher value chain in the tech sector. in other words, she failed in her quest to abandon low productivity segments of industry to move on to higher ground. importation of cheap labor via an extremely liberal immigration policy will only prolong the bad habit and the pain. ultimately, mnc's and potential investors looking to set up plants in sg will move on to greener, cheaper pastures. no promises of wage suppression will keep them around for long. it's a dog eat dog world out there, and sg just doesn't have the critical mass and cheap land to continue following the same tired modus operandi. she's on crack and she can't kick the habit.

 

[chewed]

by sticking with importation of cheap labor and the low wage mantra, it's another way of saying sg continues to value low level manufacturing and high value construction projects, which mean she will not meet her growth targets alone with her oft-mentioned strategy of going after the higher value chain in the tech sector. in other words, she failed in her quest to abandon low productivity segments of industry to move on to higher ground. importation of cheap labor via an extremely liberal immigration policy will only prolong the bad habit and the pain. ultimately, mnc's and potential investors looking to set up plants in sg will move on to greener, cheaper pastures. no promises of wage suppression will keep them around for long. it's a dog eat dog world out there, and sg just doesn't have the critical mass and cheap land to continue following the same tired modus operandi. she's on crack and she can't kick the habit.

eat,

exactly. now we hear LHL saying SG economy needs to transform etc all the BS. It's too late. The train has left the station!

If they weren't so self-serving, and bite the bullet in the 90s, maybe SG economy still have a chance.

when the old fart still said we need MNC for FDI in June 09, as the way forward, i knew SG will have no chance.

 

[Ash007]

Actually, I've been hearing the PaPees talk about "transforming" the economy since growing up, not just from LHL. Petrochemical, biotech, electronics, service, banking, finance "HUB". How many "HUB" this, "HUB" that, have you heard the ruling party said? I'm just not too sure how successful these "initiative" were, remember they wanted Singapore to be an R&D "Hub" ? I'm not too sure how many still view Singapore as being successful in these, or if it was covered up by the MSM by not mentioning it. It is interesting how the government changes its mindset from becoming one "HUB" to the next. I think its suppose to be the entertainment "HUB" now, with the casinos, F1, theme parks.

eat,

exactly. now we hear LHL saying SG economy needs to transform etc all the BS. It's too late. The train has left the station!

If they weren't so self-serving, and bite the bullet in the 90s, maybe SG economy still have a chance.

when the old fart still said we need MNC for FDI in June 09, as the way forward, i knew SG will have no chance.

 

[eatshitndie]

eat,

exactly. now we hear LHL saying SG economy needs to transform etc all the BS. It's too late. The train has left the station!

If they weren't so self-serving, and bite the bullet in the 90s, maybe SG economy still have a chance.

when the old fart still said we need MNC for FDI in June 09, as the way forward, i knew SG will have no chance.

many who have left to set up shop overseas saw this years, if not a couple of decades, ago. however, it benefits those who plan on setting up sweat shops in sg. it's dog eat dog out there afterall.

 

[scroobal]

The whole thing is built around the single desire to seek double digit and aggressive GDP growth. Its the measurement of success. I agree with Chewed that unless we bite the minimum wage bullet, bear the short term pains, nothing fundamental will result. Minimum wage is not a single solution but it signal a mindset change and force much needed productivity increases, and the rest will be dragged along.

by sticking with importation of cheap labor and the low wage mantra, it's another way of saying sg continues to value low level manufacturing and high value construction projects, which mean she will not meet her growth targets alone with her oft-mentioned strategy of going after the higher value chain in the tech sector. .

 

[eatshitndie]

The whole thing is built around the single desire to seek double digit and aggressive GDP growth. Its the measurement of success. I agree with Chewed that unless we bite the minimum wage bullet, bear the short term pains, nothing fundamental will result. Minimum wage is not a single solution but it signal a mindset change and force much needed productivity increases, and the rest will be dragged along.

please empathize with these supreme leaders. it's a very difficult job to maintain high gdp growth in a challenging economy, especially when one's already out-of-this-world civil service renumeration and performance package is tied to such a kpi. between country and cash, most of these supreme beings opt for cash.

 

[chewed]

The whole thing is built around the single desire to seek double digit and aggressive GDP growth. Its the measurement of success. I agree with Chewed that unless we bite the minimum wage bullet, bear the short term pains, nothing fundamental will result. Minimum wage is not a single solution but it signal a mindset change and force much needed productivity increases, and the rest will be dragged along.

scroobal,

yes, mimimum wage is not the magic silver bullet. The whole idea is to change the mindset of sinkies about value of things.

thing is all the years of complaining about the bad service or the lack of it in SG is due to the lack of minimum wage, plus the 10% service charge that the restaurant owners happily pocket. if we revert to the tipping system or simply just put it in law the service charge goes to the service staff, you can count on it improving overnight

 

[neddy]

scroobal,

yes, mimimum wage is not the magic silver bullet. The whole idea is to change the mindset of sinkies about value of things.

We need to put a sensible value to the unit of labour cost.

Unfortunately, with globalisation, it is possible to cut labour cost to the cheapest country, without consideration of sufficiency for subsitence living.

blue-collar Americans have taken a paycut since 1973, they are the inventors of phrases such as "My take-home pay is unable to bring me home"

My Egyptian friend's wife would rather quit her government job because the govt pension she receive is higher than her current pay, after deducting transport cost.

 

[axe168]

You are right.

Those who supported minimum wage have probably not understood that fact.



I too support a change in leadership.

It is just that the alternative leaders are just too useless.

For this case, the only solution is boil your own soup and not rely on the leaders.

Perhaps you got the whole thing wrong.. we should have a benevolent government, not a money generating govt.. if they are generating profits, they should return $$$ to its people.. rather than gamble it away and claim "above board decision" or global crisis, instead of admitting on mistakes.

On one hand, they collect GST (to help the poor).. on the other hand, they humiliate those who approached them for help.. resulting few committing suicide.. causing chaos to public transport.

If the govt advocates them to boil their own soup, they should do likewise.. instead of relying on tax payers money for their million dollars salary.. agree ?

Pls send a strong message to your master