Singapore Government against minimum wage

[singveld]

who idea is this minimum wages?

it will harm sinkies jobs not FT jobs.

FT can under the table pay back to boss part of salary to get the jobs, sinkies cannot, therefore have no jobs, it does not help singaporean.

 

[gohsanho]

Dont worry too many local got no job there will be social problem and ft have to be sacrified. If not there will be social unrest. So the problem will take care of by itself.

 

[phouse3]

People are really suffering from amnesia.

P1 Pass - > $7,000
P2 Pass - > $3,500
Q1 Pass - > $2,500
S Pass - > $1,800 ($50 levy only)

P1 Pass foreigners are likely to be talented people who can create jobs and value here.
P2 Pass foreigners can be mediocre/excess managers. Some countries export their unemployment here (eg, Japan, EU, America).
Q1 Pass foreigners are quite likely to be untalented workers here to take rather than create jobs.
S Pass foreigners are likely to be job-beggars from 3rd world economies.

In 2001 GE, the MIW said it understood our concerns over jobs. Hence, it raised the minimum salary of Q1 Pass from $2,200 to $2,500.

Post-GE, it cleverly created an S Pass with a min. salary of $1,800 only. Not only has the MIW rescinded on its words, the super low salary of $1,800 means foreign workers come in to compete at low levels.

With the MIW prosposing higher foreign workers levy, do not be surprised if some employers substitute some Work Permit workers with S Pass workers (up to the 5% quota).

Everything in Singapore is subjected to inflation indexing, including our CPF Min. Sum, Life Insurance, Medisave etc. It is perturbing that the min. salary of S Pass workers has not been raised since its inception in 2004. Housing, heathcare, utilities, hawker food prices have all catapulted but not foreign workers min. salary.

An Arts graduate's starting salary is $2,500. An Engineering graduate's is even higher at $2,800. The Q1 Pass workers are competing with them.

It's about time to raise S Pass min. salary by $700 and Q1/P1/P2 pass min. salary by $1,000 in conjunction with the proposal to raise the depressed wage of blue collar workers. The MIW should not be insulting the foreign "talents" with depressed salaries.

 

[silverfox@]

Minium wage for SINGAPOREANS, your Filipino maids salary should be peg to demand & supply.

We have to protect our won ricebowls, if your are paid $1,500 a month, you employ a msid for $1,500, does that make sense to you?

If can't afford a maid, then shouldn't go overbudget to hire 1.

Minimum wage set only for Singaporeans, will encourage even more people to go for Foreigners instead. We have been saying show the world that having minimum wage is not to exploit workers and give them human rights. If its only applied for Singaporeans and the rest of those like maids, road sweepers are peg to demand and supply, then its very hypocritical.

Peg to demand and supply in another way is telling people, I pay you what I can, and you should accept it.

 

[phouse3]

If can't afford a maid, then shouldn't go overbudget to hire 1.

Minimum wage set only for Singaporeans, will encourage even more people to go for Foreigners instead. We have been saying show the world that having minimum wage is not to exploit workers and give them human rights. If its only applied for Singaporeans and the rest of those like maids, road sweepers are peg to demand and supply, then its very hypocritical.

Peg to demand and supply in another way is telling people, I pay you what I can, and you should accept it.

"...a mandatory minimum wage would boost wages and morale. Workers who benefit from a mandated minimum wage will feel better and more fairly treated. This would help build goodwill towards the nation among transient foreign workers who will eventually return to their home countries." (Dr Hui Weng Tat)

Dr Hui is a labour economist but you are just an idiot. So will you please shut the fuck up!

 

[silverfox@]

The MIW should not be insulting the foreign "talents" with depressed salaries.

"...a mandatory minimum wage would boost wages and morale. Workers who benefit from a mandated minimum wage will feel better and more fairly treated. This would help build goodwill towards the nation among transient foreign workers who will eventually return to their home countries." (Dr Hui Weng Tat)

Dr Hui is a labour economist but you are just an idiot. So will you please shut the fuck up!

If you set a minimum wage of $1600 to all Singaporeans, but choose to pay your household foreign maid $400 a month, you call this minimum wage? Or selective minimum wage?

And please stop being a hypocrite

 

[phouse3]

If you set a minimum wage of $1600 to all Singaporeans, but choose to pay your household foreign maid $400 a month, you call this minimum wage? Or selective minimum wage?

And please stop being a hypocrite

Have you read the article by Dr Hui? If not, please cut it out and frame it on your wall for easy reference.

Did he mention anything about exempting maids? We are fighting for minimum wage. If the government is not agreeable, there is no point in talking about other things which requires further debate.

It was RP that talked about exemptions, exemptions and more exemptions. Many months ago, YPAP Facebook has a field day slamming RP. Go google for it.

In another thread, you even provided a link from Wikipedia showing a diagram. In that diagram, a single horizontal line was drawn to represent a single minimum wage. It shows that you don't even know what you have been mumbling all along. Even after showing you the diagram is wrong, you quote even more irrelevant junks from Wikipedia relating to the same diagram. And you can go on and on despite so many people urging you to stop.

 

[ChaoPappyPoodle]

If you set a minimum wage of $1600 to all Singaporeans, but choose to pay your household foreign maid $400 a month, you call this minimum wage? Or selective minimum wage?

And please stop being a hypocrite

You still dare to come around and twist and turn and lie and show all how deceitful you are?

Minimum wage is set for a reason. Which industry, for part-time or full-time workers, how much per hour, for how long, what are the other supporting legislative procedures put into place to support the motive for implementing minimum are just a few of the questions and issues to be resolved.

Ordinarily, maids and industries with a large percentage of foreign workers from 3rd world countries are not part of a minimum wage plan.

Minimum wages are to allow indigenous workers a salary that will allow them to earn a decent living to allow them to have a livelihood throughout their lifetime.

Maids and as such, migrant workers are here temporarily and even without minimum wage, they do earn sufficiently to remit sufficient money for their families back home.

Having said that, maids here can and should be paid more. The fascist PAP regime sucks out $320 per month from each maid and does close to nothing to ensure that maids and even migrant workers are taken care of humanely and are not exploited by their agents back home, here or by their employers here.

 

[ChaoPappyPoodle]

Have you read the article by Dr Hui? If not, please cut it out and frame it on your wall for easy reference.

Don't worry about this PAPdog idiot! He spews absolute garbage most of the time and gladly sucks it all back in because without doing so, he is afraid that he will have nothing to regurgitate when it comes time for him to spew more garbage.

Exemptions are almost always necessary especially when migrant workers are concerned. As long as we know the motive for having a minimum wage programme in Singapore or anywhere else, we will be on the right track.

Fascist PAP regimes will not implement such programmes because it allows lower income to be less desperate to listen to propaganda from the state machineries.

Virtues of fascism and minimum wage are at a tangent to each other. The PAP is a fascist regime.

 

[Agoraphobic]

You've now all seen the writing on the wall.

"SURVIVAL OF THE CHEAPEST."

Now submit your quotes and offers.

Cheers!

 

[Kid278]

If you set a minimum wage of $1600 to all Singaporeans, but choose to pay your household foreign maid $400 a month, you call this minimum wage? Or selective minimum wage?

And please stop being a hypocrite

You're obviously very confused. Foreign maids are domestic workers, no challenge on them having a minimum wage but factor in the levy charges, lodging accommodations, meals and other necessities before you make your arguments.

 

[silverfox@]

Ordinarily, maids and industries with a large percentage of foreign workers from 3rd world countries are not part of a minimum wage plan.

Now let me ask you then, why are Maids and industries with large percentage of foreign workers from 3rd world needed and are not going be part of minimum wage plan, if you are PUSHING FOR MINIMUM WAGE? Singaporean is 上等人？

Please ask those who have a maid at home why they need a maid? So they can concentrate on their career and bring home more dough for their family. Without a maid, you think those who rely on a maid will be able to be 100% focus on their work and spend as much time on work than with family? Without a maid, they got to spend time, managing their homes and kids.

The next thing I am going to ask you is if there is a minimum wage, will Singaporeans want to be a household maid? If there is a minimum wage, will Singaporeans want to be a construction worker? Or even a rubbish cleaner? These are the jobs being filled up with Foreign workers. And everyone is avoiding this aspect entirely pushing for minimum wages at the other end. Precisely, no Singaporeans want these jobs, that's why Foreign workers are chosen.

Why? (You should know the answer)
-Low pay
-Low Esteem
-Not a prestigious job.

How much wages will a Local accept to be a household maid, construction worker, rubbish cleaner? And you think will anyone then employ them with their new increased minimum wage?

Of course your argument will be these group of industries should not even part of a minimum wage plan.
This is the appalling part. You guys want the best of everything and yet at the expense of these foreign workers and keep coming here saying you are fighting for basic human rights.

If you want fight for something, be fair to everyone. If you know you cannot be fair, then don't fight for it on the pretext of basic human rights.

Fighting for eg $1600 minimum wage and try applying this minimum wage to household maid at $1600 per month, Send back all the filipinos, burmese, indon maids and leave this $1600 household maid job to local Singaporeans. Any takers?

We can press for minimum wage, press to send back all these foreigners so that jobs can be created only for Singaporeans. The problem is any takers?

No takers? Nevermind lor, bring down the minimum wage for this specific industry so foreign workers will take up and Singaporeans will employ.
This is the contradicting move you are having

Selective industries and people.

Of course I know you will say this to drive your point and say the money that household maids make are sufficient money for them to send home to have a better life for their family.
And then you ask those poor workers in Singapore, and the money they make are not SUFFICIENT. So that's why people press for minimum wage

This is your reason of justifying why minimum wage is fought for selective people

Having said that, maids here can and should be paid more. The fascist PAP regime sucks out $320 per month from each maid and does close to nothing to ensure that maids and even migrant workers are taken care of humanely and are not exploited by their agents back home, here or by their employers here.

Earlier you have written they are not part of the minimum wage plan and already treating them like unimportant, here you are asking the PAP regime to ensure they are well taken care of. How hypocrite.

And to phouse3, I hope the next time you can tell everybody here what is your suggested minimum wage when you said before even $6.80/hr as minimum wage is NOT ENOUGH.

 

[silverfox@]

You're obviously very confused. Foreign maids are domestic workers, no challenge on them having a minimum wage but factor in the levy charges, lodging accommodations, meals and other necessities before you make your arguments.

I thought there were people complaining Foreigners taking the jobs of Locals?

Just send back all these foreign maids, set the minimum wage and open this maid job market only to Locals, then you come and tell us why don't locals be household maids.

And please don't talk about factoring lodging, levy, meals, and necessities. It makes me even more sick when I hear this. You are trying to justify paying household maids couple of hundreds a month is absolutely justifiable just because she sleeps in your house, you provide food for her, buy toiletries for her. Pls apply this self-righteousness of yours regardless of nationality and occupation

 

[loloba]

Minimum wage for Singaporeans - our concern is not minimum wage for maids.

Surely Lee Yi Shan is not giving workfare to foreign maids and by the way at the moment maids are paid $280 - 350 depending from which contry they are from. Why are you raising the maid's wages to $1,600 per month.

 

[silverfox@]

Minimum wage for Singaporeans - our concern is not minimum wage for maids.

Surely Lee Yi Shan is not giving workfare to foreign maids and by the way at the moment maids are paid $280 - 350 depending from which contry they are from. Why are you raising the maid's wages to $1,600 per month.

Aren't we talking about minimum wages? YOU mean maids should be exempted? Likewise some industries shunned by locals and instead using foreign workers must also be exempted from minimum wage?

These are all the cans of worms being opened when pressing on minimum wages. And I can guarantee you many people (in fact all) would not want to have minimum wage on household maids.

The day (if example minimum wage is $1600) is set and certain industries are exempted from this minimum wage, it will look so foolish on us.

 

[Kid278]

And please don't talk about factoring lodging, levy, meals, and necessities. It makes me even more sick when I hear this. You are trying to justify paying household maids couple of hundreds a month is absolutely justifiable just because she sleeps in your house, you provide food for her, buy toiletries for her. Pls apply this self-righteousness of yours regardless of nationality and occupation

You're sick because you are confused and unable to rationalize.

I'm not justifying anything, I am just being pragmatic. Minimum wage is to stop exploitation of workers and when introduced it'll be a mandate. Employers can pay more, they cannot pay less.

Maids are domestic workers, in house workers where employers has to pay levy, provide lodging, meals and other necessities. They have the right to challenge such expenses to offset their cost to make it affordable.

 

[ChaoPappyPoodle]

....

Why and how can you be such an idiot? To you it seems that minimum wage is just a word. To others, they see it as a way to redistribute the country's income across as many sectors as possible.

Migrant workers, including maids by logic do not require minimum wages here because they do not need to own homes and oftentimes, their lodging are already taken care of by their employers.

Singaporeans on the other hand have to live here and ideally they have an opportunity to own homes. Does this make sense to you why minimum wage shouldn't cover migrant workers or industries with migrant workers?

Now you are behaving like a typical communist with your equal wages for all mantra. You are quite laughable.

While we do not have to include migrant workers within any minimum wage programme, they should be paid and taken care of humanely. Why do you have a problem with this?

 

[ChaoPappyPoodle]

Aren't we talking about minimum wages? YOU mean maids should be exempted? Likewise some industries shunned by locals and instead using foreign workers must also be exempted from minimum wage?

These are all the cans of worms being opened when pressing on minimum wages. And I can guarantee you many people (in fact all) would not want to have minimum wage on household maids.

The day (if example minimum wage is $1600) is set and certain industries are exempted from this minimum wage, it will look so foolish on us.

I believe that you will do yourself a favour and everyone else if you went away for a few days and read on the rationale and reasons for minimum wage before coming back to post.

Thank you.

 

[silverfox@]

I believe that you will do yourself a favour and everyone else if you went away for a few days and read on the rationale and reasons for minimum wage before coming back to post.

Thank you.

Doing you a favour? You have to tell that to kid278. :p If he tells me I should stay away and not post, I will bring up what he said before on Freedom of Speech.

 

[silverfox@]

You're sick because you are confused and unable to rationalize.

I'm not justifying anything, I am just being pragmatic. Minimum wage is to stop exploitation of workers and when introduced it'll be a mandate. Employers can pay more, they cannot pay less.

Maids are domestic workers, in house workers where employers has to pay levy, provide lodging, meals and other necessities. They have the right to challenge such expenses to offset their cost to make it affordable.

If you want to talk about providing levy, lodging, meals and necessities, what about those foreign workers who are working in restaurants? They are also provided meals, lodging, and the best thing is employers are also paying levy to the govt. It's not only domestic maids having all these, but also other industries.

Minimum wage is argued for the sake of workers who are earning low pay and most of these workers are in these situations. Not those white collared workers.

1 end we keep blabbering about how Foreigners are taking away jobs of locals, to prove your point, you tell us household maids should be paid less just because of these "extra expenses". Since having these "extra expenses" amounts to high cost, why not use all these money to get the locals instead?

Because 2 reasons,
1. Locals do not want to be household maids
2. Even if you add in these extra expenses into salary, Locals still think the pay is not good enough for them.

It's not only on household maids but also on jobs which require foreign workers.

Like I told you already, I am not against Minimum wage or for Minimum wage. But what I am showing is if there is Minimum wage what kind of issues we will still see. And what kind of message are we showing if we say having Minimum wage is to stop exploiting workers, but on the other hand we are using "multi extra expenses" as a reason to continue paying foreign workers low pay just because they are domestic workers and have a lower standard of living back home in their country.

Raising up Minimum wage is more than just giving it a go. All factors must be considered carefully. Try telling the world, Minimum wage only for locals and foreigners are still subjected to low pay.