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Singapore corruption ranking is a joke! says expat in Thailand

Debonerman

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Singapore corruption ranking is a joke
Published on November 25, 2009




I noticed recently that Thailand has slipped to 84th place in the worldwide graft index, but that fellow Asean member Singapore was ranked 3rd in the world and was the cleanest country in Asia.

Whilst the position of Thailand and that of Singapore as the cleanest country in Asia was to be expected, the fact that Singapore is ranked 3rd in the world struck me as somewhat surreal.


One of the main precursors for an open and incorrupt society, as I understand it, is a strong, independent and free press that is not afraid to undertake investigative journalism to expose wrongdoers so that they can be prosecuted and tried in fair and unbiased courts.


Singapore's press, however, is ranked 133 on a world scale of 175 for freedom, languishing beneath such paragons of virtue as Bangladesh, the Central African Republic, Cambodia and Nicaragua.


Given this fact, it is worrying that the Singaporean ruling family, the Lees, have won yet another big court settlement and that the target of their latest defamation suit was the well known and respected Far Eastern Economic Review, owned by the highly responsible "Dow Jones & Co, which wrote an article on Chee Soon Juan, an opposition party leader.


Where those who are the first line of defence in the fight against corruption are bound and gagged and live in constant fear of law suits on a whim, I doubt we are seeing anything that equates to a full and clear picture of the "cleanliness" of Singapore.


JOHN SYMONS


BANGKOK
 

TeeKee

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Somehow i seem to agree with John....

How did SGP get 3rd place in corruption free index....

Only God knows...:smile:
 

Char_Azn

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I just want to know, what makes this John guy an expert since the title claims that he is one.

2ndly if SG is corrupted but still ranked 3rd what does this imply. This is mean that pple who created this list are themselves corrupted?
 

Debonerman

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I just want to know, what makes this John guy an expert since the title claims that he is one.

2ndly if SG is corrupted but still ranked 3rd what does this imply. This is mean that pple who created this list are themselves corrupted?

Is that a rhetorical question!:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
 

jacobsgoh

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Everyone in leeapore is corrupted, lky's son's govt even bribed[with public money] its leeitizens with 'Freebies' near elections; and those suckers were too happy to care as to why they had it so good.
 

Char_Azn

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Is that a rhetorical question!:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

No, cause seriously I've never heard of this JOHN SYMONS guy so I think it's a pretty valid question. It's a very simple question, since the guy who started this thread claim that he is an expert, I would assume he knows more then I do about John Symons.

The guy's biggest argument is a lack of free press, however I can give you more then enough example that free press and low corruption does not go hand in hand. Taking away the fact that ranking the local press in the same league as Iraq and Cambodia is totally absurd, I have to admit that the local media is anything but free. Its definitely restricted to a large extent. .

Malaysia, Thailand, India, Taiwan, those countries definitely have a better Press ranking and why it is so is pretty much Justified. However, the corruption level of all these countries is also pretty obvious. So having a free press definitely does not = less Corruption.

If the guy has a problem with Free Press in SG, he should be writing about that, I don't think we can argue too much with that. However he tried to equate Free Press with Anti Corruption which as shown from the examples above isn't really true. Which is why I doubt the credibility of this guy here

So I'd like to ask this question again, what makes this JOHN SYMONS guy an expert?
 

angie

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Singapore's press, however, is ranked 133 on a world scale of 175 for freedom, languishing beneath such paragons of virtue as Bangladesh, the Central African Republic, Cambodia and Nicaragua.

<table width="100%"><tbody><tr><td>Freedom of the Press 2009 Global Rankings

</td> <td align="right"> 2009 Edition
</td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table class="frame_table" align="left" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td class="content_cell" style="padding-top: 0px;" align="left" valign="top"><style type="text/css"> thead tr td{ background-color:#000; color:#fff; font-weight:bold; } p{ margin:0; } </style>
Freedom of the Press 2009
Table of Global Press Freedom Rankings​
</td></tr></tbody></table>



<table summary="" align="" border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="631"><thead><tr><td nowrap="nowrap" valign="bottom" width="92">
Rank 2009
</td> <td valign="bottom" width="220">
Country
</td> <td valign="bottom" width="118">
Rating
</td> <td valign="bottom" width="201">
Status
</td></tr></thead></table>
<table summary="" align="" border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="631"><tbody><tr><td rowspan="4" bgcolor="#cccccc" nowrap="nowrap" valign="bottom" width="92">
143​
142​
143​
144​
</td> <td valign="bottom" width="220">
Cameroon
</td> <td valign="bottom" width="118">
65​
</td> <td valign="bottom" width="201">
Not Free​
</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="bottom" width="220">
Malaysia
</td> <td valign="bottom" width="118">
65​
</td> <td valign="bottom" width="201">
Not Free​
</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="bottom" width="220">
Qatar
</td> <td valign="bottom" width="118">
65​
</td> <td valign="bottom" width="201">
Not Free​
</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="bottom" width="220">
Zambia
</td> <td valign="bottom" width="118">
65​
</td> <td valign="bottom" width="201">
Not Free​
</td></tr></tbody></table>

<table summary="" align="" border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="631"><tbody><tr><td rowspan="2" bgcolor="#cccccc" nowrap="nowrap" valign="bottom" width="92">
151​
152
</td> <td valign="bottom" width="220">
Armenia
</td> <td valign="bottom" width="118">
68​
</td> <td valign="bottom" width="201">
Not Free​
</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="bottom" width="220">
Singapore
</td> <td valign="bottom" width="118">
68​
</td> <td valign="bottom" width="201">
Not Free​
</td></tr></tbody></table>


.
 

Char_Azn

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
<table width="100%"><tbody><tr><td>Freedom of the Press 2009 Global Rankings

</td> <td align="right"> 2009 Edition
</td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table class="frame_table" align="left" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td class="content_cell" style="padding-top: 0px;" align="left" valign="top"><style type="text/css"> thead tr td{ background-color:#000; color:#fff; font-weight:bold; } p{ margin:0; } </style>
Freedom of the Press 2009
Table of Global Press Freedom Rankings​
</td></tr></tbody></table>



<table summary="" align="" border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="631"><thead><tr><td nowrap="nowrap" valign="bottom" width="92">
Rank 2009
</td> <td valign="bottom" width="220">
Country
</td> <td valign="bottom" width="118">
Rating
</td> <td valign="bottom" width="201">
Status
</td></tr></thead></table>
<table summary="" align="" border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="631"><tbody><tr><td rowspan="4" bgcolor="#cccccc" nowrap="nowrap" valign="bottom" width="92">
143​
142​
143​
144​
</td> <td valign="bottom" width="220">
Cameroon
</td> <td valign="bottom" width="118">
65​
</td> <td valign="bottom" width="201">
Not Free​
</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="bottom" width="220">
Malaysia
</td> <td valign="bottom" width="118">
65​
</td> <td valign="bottom" width="201">
Not Free​
</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="bottom" width="220">
Qatar
</td> <td valign="bottom" width="118">
65​
</td> <td valign="bottom" width="201">
Not Free​
</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="bottom" width="220">
Zambia
</td> <td valign="bottom" width="118">
65​
</td> <td valign="bottom" width="201">
Not Free​
</td></tr></tbody></table>

<table summary="" align="" border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="631"><tbody><tr><td rowspan="2" bgcolor="#cccccc" nowrap="nowrap" valign="bottom" width="92">
151​
152
</td> <td valign="bottom" width="220">
Armenia
</td> <td valign="bottom" width="118">
68​
</td> <td valign="bottom" width="201">
Not Free​
</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="bottom" width="220">
Singapore
</td> <td valign="bottom" width="118">
68​
</td> <td valign="bottom" width="201">
Not Free​
</td></tr></tbody></table>


.

And U left out
43 Taiwan Free
76 India Partly Free
And another one that I didn't put as an example earlier
96 Philippines Partly Free

All those are countries whose level of corruption are plain for all to see has a press freedom ranking many places above us

Like I stated earlier, we don't have a free press and I do agree that its a problem. However we are talking about corruption, having a free press does not = lower levels of corruption. Hell, Jamaica is ranked joint 14th in terms of Press Freedom ranking but anyone familiar with that place will tell you that corruption levels is worse then in MY and Thailand.
 

Debonerman

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Loyal
No, cause seriously I've never heard of this JOHN SYMONS guy so I think it's a pretty valid question. It's a very simple question, since the guy who started this thread claim that he is an expert, I would assume he knows more then I do about John Symons.

The guy's biggest argument is a lack of free press, however I can give you more then enough example that free press and low corruption does not go hand in hand. Taking away the fact that ranking the local press in the same league as Iraq and Cambodia is totally absurd, I have to admit that the local media is anything but free. Its definitely restricted to a large extent. .

Malaysia, Thailand, India, Taiwan, those countries definitely have a better Press ranking and why it is so is pretty much Justified. However, the corruption level of all these countries is also pretty obvious. So having a free press definitely does not = less Corruption.

If the guy has a problem with Free Press in SG, he should be writing about that, I don't think we can argue too much with that. However he tried to equate Free Press with Anti Corruption which as shown from the examples above isn't really true. Which is why I doubt the credibility of this guy here

So I'd like to ask this question again, what makes this JOHN SYMONS guy an expert?

Seriously, you remind me of everything PAP and by association, the apparatus of the Civil Service. Whenever cornered, will go through fine print for a reason by which they can present, as a final non negotiable conclusion on challenged issues, backed of course by the weight of the power of mandated governance.
Here we have a guy who so happen to be an outsider giving an opinion which gels with the perception of a not irrelevant percentage of our own citizens, and you throw a red herring by asking what makes him an expert. Must we have a doctorate to offer an opinion when we see something that's abnormal?
 

Char_Azn

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Asset
Seriously, you remind me of everything PAP and by association, the apparatus of the Civil Service. Whenever cornered, will go through fine print for a reason by which they can present, as a final non negotiable conclusion on challenged issues, backed of course by the weight of the power of mandated governance.
Here we have a guy who so happen to be an outsider giving an opinion which gels with the perception of a not irrelevant percentage of our own citizens, and you throw a red herring by asking what makes him an expert. Must we have a doctorate to offer an opinion when we see something that's abnormal?

I wasn't the one who claimed that he was an expert, you did, and since I have no idea who this guy is obviously I'm going to assume that U know more about him then me. The entire article that you post never mentioned him as an expert in the matter. Like I pointed out earlier, his argument is flawed which is why I question his creditibility. Doesn't matter whether he is a foreigner looking from the outside or someone from SG, a flawed argument is a flawed arguement. I've already proven that having a Free Press is not equal to less corruption. I'm no expert and I'll admit I'm not one but that person's argument is flawed and it's pretty plain for all to see

You claimed that this guy is an expert. I asked a very simple question, why do you claim that he is an expert. Is he a professor of some famous Uni that specialize in the study of corruption. Is he a member of some global, regional body that studies corruption? For someone to be an expert means that he is good in this field in this case, the study on global corruption. Doesn't matter if its PAP or SDP, when someone wants confirmation from an Expert, they get someone who has a good reputation in that particular field of study.

ex⋅pert
  /n., v. ˈɛkspɜrt; adj. ˈɛkspɜrt, ɪkˈspɜrt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [n., v. ek-spurt; adj. ek-spurt, ik-spurt] Show IPA
Use expert in a Sentence
See web results for expert
See images of expert
–noun
1. a person who has special skill or knowledge in some particular field; specialist; authority: a language expert.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/expert

So instead of trying to avoid my question and go about debating this forever, could you simply answer my question and tell us who this guy really is and what makes him an expert
 

Debonerman

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Notwithstanding my reputation in this forum, I'm not uncivilised. Care to clean your glasses? When did I say expert! The thread heading? Please take a look again.
 

Debonerman

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I would imagine you are hard at work going through fine print now.:smile::(Sigh, it's the same wherever one is at, when you deal with the PAP machinery, it's the same, the same, the same...........:wink::p:p:p
 

Papsmearer

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Generous Asset
No, cause seriously I've never heard of this JOHN SYMONS guy so I think it's a pretty valid question. It's a very simple question, since the guy who started this thread claim that he is an expert, I would assume he knows more then I do about John Symons.

The guy's biggest argument is a lack of free press, however I can give you more then enough example that free press and low corruption does not go hand in hand. Taking away the fact that ranking the local press in the same league as Iraq and Cambodia is totally absurd, I have to admit that the local media is anything but free. Its definitely restricted to a large extent. .

Malaysia, Thailand, India, Taiwan, those countries definitely have a better Press ranking and why it is so is pretty much Justified. However, the corruption level of all these countries is also pretty obvious. So having a free press definitely does not = less Corruption.

If the guy has a problem with Free Press in SG, he should be writing about that, I don't think we can argue too much with that. However he tried to equate Free Press with Anti Corruption which as shown from the examples above isn't really true. Which is why I doubt the credibility of this guy here

So I'd like to ask this question again, what makes this JOHN SYMONS guy an expert?

Truly, your fucked up logic is symptomatic of most moronic sinkies. If you don't have a free press, than your corruption is not exposed. If your corruption is not exposed, than stupid orgs. that publish the graft index THINK THERE IS NO CORRUPTION. Get it? These orgs. do not go and investigate personally to see if there is graft. they just go with whatever the survey says for that country. But if the people of the country say there is no corruption, it does not mean there is non, it just means the press either covers it up or does no investigation.

For example, India has lots of corruption. How do we know this? Because their press reported and expose them. Therefore, they are not in the top 10 in this index. U just look around and even thru the PAP controlled media, you can tell corruption exists. eg. the 3 police officers convicted recently, PM and MM getting large discounts on their luxury flat purchases, Durai, Renci, etc. And these are only the ones that are reported, its a tip of the iceberg. We have not even talked about all the HDB conveyancing contracts that Lee and Lee gets, why no PAP elite or minister has ever agreed to disclose their asets or net worth, etc.

The truest test is that if you say that you have no corruption, than reveal everything. All the top level US politicians have to reveal their tax filings every year, reveal their assets, and than pur their assets into a blind trust to avoid conflict of interests and corruption. If the PAP is so clean, than they should have nothing to fear.
 

TeeKee

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So having a free press definitely does not = less Corruption.

actually having more free press, the perception of corruption will increase...hence the drop in the rankings.

so corruption doesn't really exist in North Korea..

it is important that to accurately perceive the corruption levels of any countries, free press must exist..this is one simple pre-condition for the index to stand up to scrutiny..
 

TeeKee

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The truest test is that if you say that you have no corruption, than reveal everything. All the top level US politicians have to reveal their tax filings every year, reveal their assets, and than pur their assets into a blind trust to avoid conflict of interests and corruption. If the PAP is so clean, than they should have nothing to fear.

beri hard to catch those MIWs for corruption, because Lau Lee already lee-galized corruption by paying themselves millions....

but if oppositions can take over the gabramen roles, and have 2/3rd majority....i think they can subpena and indict Lau Lee for privatising taxpayers monies...
 

Papsmearer

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beri hard to catch those MIWs for corruption, because Lau Lee already lee-galized corruption by paying themselves millions....

but if oppositions can take over the gabramen roles, and have 2/3rd majority....i think they can subpena and indict Lau Lee for privatising taxpayers monies...

That is why the PAP will never give up power, even if the oppo really wins the election, they will put the army on the streets and pull a coup. If they lose power, all their abuses and corruption will be exposed. And they will be jailed of better still shot like in China.
 

kensington

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Fuck this angmoh expat. He is probably not good enough for Singapore, hence has to sell his soul to the Thai.

He will use this exchange as an mitigation of how he should be allowed in the kingdom


Constantine Phaulkon used this tactic !!!!
 

Char_Azn

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Notwithstanding my reputation in this forum, I'm not uncivilised. Care to clean your glasses? When did I say expert! The thread heading? Please take a look again.

Since I can't prove now whether you changed the title. I'll just admit that I'm blind and apologize. I'm sorry for misreading the title Must have been the late night football messing with my eyes

however it still does not change the fact that the guy's argument is flawed
 
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