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Singapore Bonds
- Thread starter Runifyouhaveto
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Re: Interesting Bond issues
Dear leader,
A RUN's friend used to teach at Mr roger's children's school. He told me vomit blood; rogers gave teachers a financial talk and this is his track record in the last 7-10 years.
- He wrote a book A bull in China
since the book was published, china's SSE never recovered till pre-2008 olympics level
- He told them farmers will drive Lamborghini soon.
Soft commodities crashed after that, those teachers who bought Olam and Noble locally lost more than 50%.
- He said, gold will super rally because of fiat-printing.
After that, Gold crashed 20-25% from 1600-1800 level.
Actually, the three famous time-tested gurus should be Mr buffett, Mr Li and Mr Soros, just that three of them adopted different styles.
Just follow these 3 gurus.
Dear leader,
A RUN's friend used to teach at Mr roger's children's school. He told me vomit blood; rogers gave teachers a financial talk and this is his track record in the last 7-10 years.
- He wrote a book A bull in China
since the book was published, china's SSE never recovered till pre-2008 olympics level
- He told them farmers will drive Lamborghini soon.
Soft commodities crashed after that, those teachers who bought Olam and Noble locally lost more than 50%.
- He said, gold will super rally because of fiat-printing.
After that, Gold crashed 20-25% from 1600-1800 level.
Actually, the three famous time-tested gurus should be Mr buffett, Mr Li and Mr Soros, just that three of them adopted different styles.
Just follow these 3 gurus.
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Re: Interesting Bond issues
yesterday, secondary market got an 4.25% issue from olam that i didn't even want to highlight. They used to give 6-8% for their bonds but now they give 4.25%pa for 5 years after being >50% temasek owned.
Effectively, nothing changed in the company, except ownership. Such pricing is like a good blue-chip company, hahahahaha, Noble issued 6% bonds a few weeks ago. I will choose Noble.
yesterday, secondary market got an 4.25% issue from olam that i didn't even want to highlight. They used to give 6-8% for their bonds but now they give 4.25%pa for 5 years after being >50% temasek owned.
Effectively, nothing changed in the company, except ownership. Such pricing is like a good blue-chip company, hahahahaha, Noble issued 6% bonds a few weeks ago. I will choose Noble.
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Re: Interesting Bond issues
he is a very experienced trader, learnt from him how he see things going around the world.
i went to his talk 2 years ago, he told the audience that he is not buying gold when it was at level 1700, 4 months later, gold crashed...
also that many bond managers will be out of job...
he is a very experienced trader, learnt from him how he see things going around the world.
i went to his talk 2 years ago, he told the audience that he is not buying gold when it was at level 1700, 4 months later, gold crashed...
also that many bond managers will be out of job...
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Re: Interesting Bond issues
TRADING ALERT!!! BIG OPPORTUNITY
Sure massively and crazily oversubscribed if yields are above 5.25%pa
http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/bre...-dollar-perpetual-capital-securities-20140721
Please wait for yields to be announced. Likely to be 250K per lot type.
TRADING ALERT!!! BIG OPPORTUNITY
Sure massively and crazily oversubscribed if yields are above 5.25%pa
http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/bre...-dollar-perpetual-capital-securities-20140721
Please wait for yields to be announced. Likely to be 250K per lot type.
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Re: Interesting Bond issues
Reference information:
Retail Market: Hyflux 6% appx 107 now (including accrued interests)
Secondary Market: Hyflux 5.75% appx 101.9 now (excluding accrued interests)
Nett yield about 4.7+% until first-call date in Jan 2017
Reference information:
Retail Market: Hyflux 6% appx 107 now (including accrued interests)
Secondary Market: Hyflux 5.75% appx 101.9 now (excluding accrued interests)
Nett yield about 4.7+% until first-call date in Jan 2017
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Re: Interesting Bond issues
http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/bre...-dollar-perpetual-capital-securities-20140721
this one must through bank RM?
http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/bre...-dollar-perpetual-capital-securities-20140721
this one must through bank RM?
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Re: Interesting Bond issues
http://www.todayonline.com/business/chinese-tycoon-adds-ireit-global-spore-portfolio
http://www.todayonline.com/business/chinese-tycoon-adds-ireit-global-spore-portfolio
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Re: Interesting Bond issues
Details are not available yet, probably as early as this afternoon. If it is a secondary market issue, you need to purchase through bank RM and top-tier remisiers in brokerages do handle secondary market issues.
Of course, Bank RM can definitely serve you. When the information is released we need the following variables to determine if it is worth our $$$. Let's discuss it before the terms are out.
1. Yield
Current nett yield of Hyflux 5.75% is 4.75%+. Therefore i believe the yield will be between 4.75 to 5.75 = appx 5.25 area. I will give it a miss if the yield of the new issue is below 5.1%
2. Cumulative or Non-Cumulative
RUN will never buy perpetual securities of even top companies (except banks). if they are non-cumulatives. Cumulative = if they don't pay you interest this year, they still got to pay the owed amount next year. Only banks issue non-cumulative tier-1 perpetual securities
3. Penalty for failure to redeem on first-call date.
Please note that perpetual securities can be perpetual = they don't have to redeem back, just keep paying you interest. Therefore it is better if there are self-imposed penalty for failure to redeem on first-call date.
Please discuss with your bank RM, RUN is not a professional.
Details are not available yet, probably as early as this afternoon. If it is a secondary market issue, you need to purchase through bank RM and top-tier remisiers in brokerages do handle secondary market issues.
Of course, Bank RM can definitely serve you. When the information is released we need the following variables to determine if it is worth our $$$. Let's discuss it before the terms are out.
1. Yield
Current nett yield of Hyflux 5.75% is 4.75%+. Therefore i believe the yield will be between 4.75 to 5.75 = appx 5.25 area. I will give it a miss if the yield of the new issue is below 5.1%
2. Cumulative or Non-Cumulative
RUN will never buy perpetual securities of even top companies (except banks). if they are non-cumulatives. Cumulative = if they don't pay you interest this year, they still got to pay the owed amount next year. Only banks issue non-cumulative tier-1 perpetual securities
3. Penalty for failure to redeem on first-call date.
Please note that perpetual securities can be perpetual = they don't have to redeem back, just keep paying you interest. Therefore it is better if there are self-imposed penalty for failure to redeem on first-call date.
Please discuss with your bank RM, RUN is not a professional.
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Re: Interesting Bond issues
I have other REITs, not interested in yields. RUN buy REITs for capital gain.
In US Context, 8% yield = junk bond = high risk of capital loss.
REITs is like a hybrid bond = yield not guarantee + non-redemption + capital gain/loss
In all fairness, you should be rewarded with higher (non-guaranteed) yields for taking the risk to buy REITs.
Today Halycon Agri issues 6.75% bonds too, but i avoided mentioning, making first strong recommendation here for Hyflux instead. 6.75 vs 8% in your case/question.
I have other REITs, not interested in yields. RUN buy REITs for capital gain.
In US Context, 8% yield = junk bond = high risk of capital loss.
REITs is like a hybrid bond = yield not guarantee + non-redemption + capital gain/loss
In all fairness, you should be rewarded with higher (non-guaranteed) yields for taking the risk to buy REITs.
Today Halycon Agri issues 6.75% bonds too, but i avoided mentioning, making first strong recommendation here for Hyflux instead. 6.75 vs 8% in your case/question.
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Re: Interesting Bond issues
Run, reits for capital gains, can you elaborate. My thoughts is your normal stocks does that while reits gives yield.
Run, reits for capital gains, can you elaborate. My thoughts is your normal stocks does that while reits gives yield.
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Re: Interesting Bond issues
pardon my english.
To me Reits, is like a hybrid-Bond or hybrid equity. Hybrid = half/half
Reits wanna behave like bonds, give u yields but not guaranteed
Reits wanna behave like equity, give you capital gain/loss, 10-20% upside/downside per annum is the norm. So there is an element of betting in Reits for capital gains/losses.
I have reits too.
If interest rates are low = buy reits.
If interest rates are surging, avoid reits.
pardon my english.
To me Reits, is like a hybrid-Bond or hybrid equity. Hybrid = half/half
Reits wanna behave like bonds, give u yields but not guaranteed
Reits wanna behave like equity, give you capital gain/loss, 10-20% upside/downside per annum is the norm. So there is an element of betting in Reits for capital gains/losses.
I have reits too.
If interest rates are low = buy reits.
If interest rates are surging, avoid reits.
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Re: Interesting Bond issues
HYFLUX SGD PERP NC2
Lot Size: 250K type
Yield: High-4 (maybe about 4.7 - 4.9%pa)
Duration: 2 years
Step-Up interests after first-call date: Yes, very high
Yields: Cumulative + Compounding
Most prob, books-building close today
HYFLUX SGD PERP NC2
Lot Size: 250K type
Yield: High-4 (maybe about 4.7 - 4.9%pa)
Duration: 2 years
Step-Up interests after first-call date: Yes, very high
Yields: Cumulative + Compounding
Most prob, books-building close today
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Re: Interesting Bond issues
Quick thoughts............
Yield is below 5%, RUN is disappointed. But to be fair, the duration is ultra-short (2 years), so it is fair. Shorter-duration = lower risk = lower yield. If they don't redeem the self imposed penalty will likely be >7%.
Suitable for who?
- Very suitable for gamblers who take a two-years bond financing (fixed-rate about 2%) to own this "high-4%" bond.
- Suitable for those who thinks that property/equity will be cheaper 2 years later and wanna park money in fixed-income instruments. Such investors believe that hyflux will rather redeem than pay you >7% after 2 years
- Quite suitable for those who likes to flip bonds (buy & sell repeatedly). In the event bond market big crash, a short duration of 2 years, means that your capital loss are lower (eg 95-100 range) because hyflux hints about buying back at 100 (self-imposed penalty 2-years later)
- Not suitable for those who perceives hyflux as risky because this is perpetual bond = you cannot sue them for not redeeming back.
Quick thoughts............
Yield is below 5%, RUN is disappointed. But to be fair, the duration is ultra-short (2 years), so it is fair. Shorter-duration = lower risk = lower yield. If they don't redeem the self imposed penalty will likely be >7%.
Suitable for who?
- Very suitable for gamblers who take a two-years bond financing (fixed-rate about 2%) to own this "high-4%" bond.
- Suitable for those who thinks that property/equity will be cheaper 2 years later and wanna park money in fixed-income instruments. Such investors believe that hyflux will rather redeem than pay you >7% after 2 years
- Quite suitable for those who likes to flip bonds (buy & sell repeatedly). In the event bond market big crash, a short duration of 2 years, means that your capital loss are lower (eg 95-100 range) because hyflux hints about buying back at 100 (self-imposed penalty 2-years later)
- Not suitable for those who perceives hyflux as risky because this is perpetual bond = you cannot sue them for not redeeming back.
Last edited:
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Re: Interesting Bond issues
Information: www.netroadshow.com
password: Hyflux2014
Current Books-building
Hyflux: appx $300m
Halycon: appx $600m
market whisper: substantial interest from private clients
I believe it is due to bond-financing. Easy to peg back-to-back against 2 years-fixed rates due to its short tenor.
Information: www.netroadshow.com
password: Hyflux2014
Current Books-building
Hyflux: appx $300m
Halycon: appx $600m
market whisper: substantial interest from private clients
I believe it is due to bond-financing. Easy to peg back-to-back against 2 years-fixed rates due to its short tenor.
Last edited:
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Re: Interesting Bond issues
MAS said it is also considering rating all investment products, and making it a requirement that these ratings are disclosed to potential investors.
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/business/singapore/mas-proposes/1274908.html
MAS said it is also considering rating all investment products, and making it a requirement that these ratings are disclosed to potential investors.
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/business/singapore/mas-proposes/1274908.html
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Re: Interesting Bond issues
You cannot artificially inflate a market using quantitative easing forever. A market built on artificial stimulus must eventually collapse.
I believe we are in a new secular bull but there is a nasty correction lying ahead possibly within this year.
You cannot artificially inflate a market using quantitative easing forever. A market built on artificial stimulus must eventually collapse.
I believe we are in a new secular bull but there is a nasty correction lying ahead possibly within this year.
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Re: Interesting Bond issues
How Should Bond Investors Anticipate Rising Interest Rates?
https://sg.finance.yahoo.com/news/bond-investors-anticipate-rising-interest-164219326.html
How Should Bond Investors Anticipate Rising Interest Rates?
https://sg.finance.yahoo.com/news/bond-investors-anticipate-rising-interest-164219326.html
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