Serious SIA Is Making 1.5mil loss on the daily basis

[scroobal]

I think people are not reading this properly. SIA still made profits for the fiscal year. As a group it profits dropped by 8.5% compared to last year. The losses were in regard to Q4. Companies are famous for announcing losses in a quarter just before they announce restructuring so that they can convince unions and workers that they need to restructure. No company in the world is going to invest in new planes to the tunes of millions if its operating model is fundamentally broken. Note that its pricing is still premium and its focus is mainline and not budget. It also has bench strength.

Qantas also went thru restructuring before it became profitable and unlike SIA it made losses in fiscal years. The competition is certainly from Gulf airlines and not the budget airlines. Cathay Pacific is also a well run airline and it too will stand the test of time. It too has an active union so the games will continue.

Please stop listening to moms and pops in this forum who have no clue about fundamentals about investing. Share prices going and up down is part and parcel of a functioning market. When the free float is wide, the price will always react because there so many uncle and aunties in the market half of them write rubbish. The Airline industry is notoriously volatile and margins are usually razor thin as nearly every country has to have national airline and therefore the market to compete for are in premium service, safety, newer efficient and fuel saving aircraft etc. Not the cheap budget stuff.

There are many things that have gone wrong in this country starting with the SAF which the scholars came from and things that they have touched , the civil service and statutory boards but some are still not contaminated.

SIA will be doomed if the scholars and Temasek gets actively involved in SIA. So far MOF has not allowed it.

 

[Debonerman]

Ho Ching will never let SIA fail. Even if she has to convince the PM to put all MOE, MOH, MOHA and MOD services under subsidiaries of Temasek.

 

[scroobal]

Its more like they will never let her touch it. In fact, she went into aviation business thinking she can teach SIA a few things. All failed and that includes Value Jet, Tiger, Scoot etc. In the end she had to hand over everything to SIA to fix. Bear in mind that Gerard Ee was removed as Tiger Chairman and Pillay brought to fix it and that included SIA taking over completely.

The only Singaporean aviation that succeeded is the rescue and takeover of Rex Airlines in Australia by 2 Singaporeans. Though it handles regional traffic it doing well. And it was led by a scholar who left Mindef to run his own business after 10 years.

Ho Ching will never let SIA fail. Even if she has to convince the PM to put all MOE, MOH, MOHA and MOD services under subsidiaries of Temasek.

 

[The_Hypocrite]

The problem is all GLCs are used to keep the scholars loyal to the regime...job for life and good pay..can't have the scholars go begging but the incompetent falls forward and bring the company down with them..this is the result. Look at SIA..it can remain on top because it's already established..it has huge gahmen support..n many take SIA cos good service standards etc..but all gone downhill due to incompetence at the top and ppl below are treated like shit...how to improve?

 

[ckmpd]

Ho Ching will never let SIA fail. Even if she has to convince the PM to put all MOE, MOH, MOHA and MOD services under subsidiaries of Temasek.

Dont think too highly of HC or LHL. NOL is just as important as SIA to SG. SG needs NOL and SIA for strategic reach. Look how TH mismanaged NOL, causing its demise. If not diligent, SIA can die too. TH cant do anything abt it if conditions are totally unfavourable

 

[ckmpd]

The problem is all GLCs are used to keep the scholars loyal to the regime...job for life and good pay..can't have the scholars go begging but the incompetent falls forward and bring the company down with them..this is the result. Look at SIA..it can remain on top because it's already established..it has huge gahmen support..n many take SIA cos good service standards etc..but all gone downhill due to incompetence at the top and ppl below are treated like shit...how to improve?

Yes. If SIA continues to fumble and not face its competitors actively, it will lose money. How many years can TH fund SIA if it bleeds continuously?

 

[scroobal]

Name me one scholar that created something new or turned things around. I can name numerous scholars that created a mess or abandoned what they were tasked to do but their pay never got hit just their ego. Look at MRT Kwek, NOL Ng or LTA Chew.

The problem is all GLCs are used to keep the scholars loyal to the regime...job for life and good pay..can't have the scholars go begging but the incompetent falls forward and bring the company down with them..this is the result. Look at SIA..it can remain on top because it's already established..it has huge gahmen support..n many take SIA cos good service standards etc..but all gone downhill due to incompetence at the top and ppl below are treated like shit...how to improve?

 

[frenchbriefs]

Well the assumption is that SIA will not go the way of NOL, Chartered Semiconductor ..........

If I were an investor in SIA I would find it very disturbing that they are making a loss when oil prices are so low.

The same thing has happened with Cathay Pacific.

Qantas is making profit.

Garuda Airline is making profit.

Emirates is making profit.

Many North American Airlines are making profit.

Costs too high for Hong Kong and Singapore? Land Costs? (having HQ offices in two of the most expensive cities in the world with highest real estate prices doesn't help).

The market is also changing to low cost airlines.

We have seen examples of this type of companies before. When competitors are making money and they are making LOSSES. Something is very wrong.

SIA will not go the way of NOL?Airline industry are most likely to go the way of NOL,how many airlines have failed since the 50s lord knowns,they fail like popcorn.especially traditional modeled ones like SIA are running on razor thin margins....even if scoot or tiger succeeds i doubt they will be anything on the size and profitability of ryanair or jetstar.cause sinkies only know how to make everything expensive and run it in a subpar manner,like the SAF or SMRT,they dunno how to make things cheap affordable yet effective....u know cause in Singapore theres many monopolies and very little competition,our military is a overbloated fat fug,our taxi industry,telecoms are overgrown fat fugs,our transport systems and utilities are overgrown fat fugs,i would love to see PAP booted out and a little competition introduced to this island for once.our companies cannot face international pressures cause they are fat incompetent fugs.

 

[ckmpd]

Buy more? Better then FD rate of 1% I hear.

Yes, if you have plenty of money, can level down when price drops.

But the basic principle in equity trading is if the share price is fairly valued at $7, you dont want to pay $10 for it. Better to know the industry well and the company well to avoid getting burnt.

Japfa was trading at $1 and most people say good buy as it was going to declare dividend. Many investors went in despite call for caution. Dividend declared was 1c. after dividend was paid, share price dropped to 60c

 

[ckmpd]

SIA will not go the way of NOL?Airline industry are most likely to go the way of NOL,how many airlines have failed since the 50s lord knowns,they fail like popcorn.especially traditional modeled ones like SIA are running on razor thin margins....even if scoot or tiger succeeds i doubt they will be anything on the size and profitability of ryanair or jetstar.cause sinkies only know how to make everything expensive and run it in a subpar manner,like the SAF or SMRT,they dunno how to make things cheap affordable yet effective....u know cause in Singapore theres many monopolies and very little competition,our military is a overbloated fat fug,our taxi industry,telecoms are overgrown fat fugs,our transport systems and utilities are overgrown fat fugs,i would love to see PAP booted out and a little competition introduced to this island for once.our companies cannot face international pressures cause they are fat incompetent fugs.

Under LHL and the way TH is gambling with our money, anything can happen to SIA. Sem Marine and Keppel Corp are not safe too

 

[gatehousethetinkertailor]

The competition is certainly from Gulf airlines and not the budget airlines.

From personal experience, I still have no idea why people rate SQ - in comparison to the main Gulf carriers (Emirates, Etihad and Qatar) SQ has fallen behind so far in terms of service standards and quality of the planes. The flight experience is also very "singkified".

I know of many who typically raved about SQ until they travelled on one of the Gulf carriers - now they too have switched over especially since they realise what Gulf standards for business class is - and even those who fly economy swear by the Gulf carriers now.

Interestingly SQ played a major part in turnaround and relaunch of Qatar Airways during the crisis in 2008/2009.

 

[scroobal]

The battle between SIA. Cathay vs the Gulf airlines will be interesting. The gulf airlines have one distinct advantage - deep pockets. On the operating expensive side their staff are generally given staff quarters in good class condos which are given to the airlines by developers who are also state entity ( same owners ) at peppercorn rates. I suppose its the same complain that US and European airlines particularly Lufthansa levelled against SIA 3 decades ago.

From personal experience, I still have no idea why people rate SQ - in comparison to the main Gulf carriers (Emirates, Etihad and Qatar) SQ has fallen behind so far in terms of service standards and quality of the planes. The flight experience is also very "singkified".

I know of many who typically raved about SQ until they travelled on one of the Gulf carriers - now they too have switched over especially since they realise what Gulf standards for business class is - and even those who fly economy swear by the Gulf carriers now.

Interestingly SQ played a major part in turnaround and relaunch of Qatar Airways during the crisis in 2008/2009.

 

[gatehousethetinkertailor]

The battle between SIA. Cathay vs the Gulf airlines will be interesting. The gulf airlines have one distinct advantage - deep pockets. On the operating expensive side their staff are generally given staff quarters in good class condos which are given to the airlines by developers who are also state entity ( same owners ) at peppercorn rates. I suppose its the same complain that US and European airlines particularly Lufthansa levelled against SIA 3 decades ago.

Not strictly true because aircrew are charged for their living quarters - Emirates still has the best but Qatar's is not great (they are still working on building these) and Etihad is in the middle probably. Gulf airlines have deep pockets and access to national fuel reserves - they also do not hire their own citizens are flight crew so naturally there is a unique a diverse crew for each of these airlines - and they are definitely a breath of fresh air from Singapore girl's fascination/fixation for whitey....at least the only ones that get an kind of "special" treatment on the airlines are their own citizens (but even this is ebbing away because there have been outrageous incidents that no aspiring international airline can afford to get publicity on).

Unrelated footnote - the CEO of Qatar Airways owns property on Sentosa and a couple of condos in Orchard too.

 

[johnny333]

From personal experience, I still have no idea why people rate SQ - in comparison to the main Gulf carriers (Emirates, Etihad and Qatar) SQ has fallen behind so far in terms of service standards and quality of the planes. The flight experience is also very "singkified".

I know of many who typically raved about SQ until they travelled on one of the Gulf carriers - now they too have switched over especially since they realise what Gulf standards for business class is - and even those who fly economy swear by the Gulf carriers now.

Interestingly SQ played a major part in turnaround and relaunch of Qatar Airways during the crisis in 2008/2009.

I used to fly often & didn't think SIA was that great. Their mileage points was not that generous compared to other airlines.

Back when SIA was doing well they had many bad habits e.g. penny pinching from it's business travelers by charging them for being slightly over their baggage allowance. Their flights was always more crowded than the other airlines & of course the pinkerton syndrome.

I've had more positive experiences when flying Emirates economy e.g they've upgraded me, when I missed a flight they just booked me on another flight without any hassles.

 

[scroobal]

I understand that Cabin Crew and Air crew are given company accommodation as part of their package. 2 bedroom apartments for cabin crew and these have full amenities, pool, gym, amenities etc. They are condo standard. Did I get it wrong.

Not strictly true because aircrew are charged for their living quarters - Emirates still has the best but Qatar's is not great (they are still working on building these) and Etihad is in the middle probably. Gulf airlines have deep pockets and access to national fuel reserves - they also do not hire their own citizens are flight crew so naturally there is a unique a diverse crew for each of these airlines - and they are definitely a breath of fresh air from Singapore girl's fascination/fixation for whitey....at least the only ones that get an kind of "special" treatment on the airlines are their own citizens (but even this is ebbing away because there have been outrageous incidents that no aspiring international airline can afford to get publicity on).

Unrelated footnote - the CEO of Qatar Airways owns property on Sentosa and a couple of condos in Orchard too.

 

[scroobal]

I understand that flight crew only pay if they give up on provided company accommodation and find their own place.

http://www.thenational.ae/business/industry-insights/aviation/etihad-on-residential-leasing-spree-in-abu-dhabi-as-staff-expands
Etihad on residential leasing spree in Abu Dhabi as staff expands
Shereen El Gazzar

March 17, 2014 Updated: March 18, 2014 09:24 AM


Related
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Etihad Airways a ‘fair employer’ when it comes to cabin crew rules
Etihad aims to raise $2 billion to finance aircraft deliveries
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Interactive: Etihad’s new destinations year by year
Topics: Emirates Airline Rent Etihad Airways
Etihad Airways is on the hunt for new apartments as it hires thousands of employees to serve its rapidly expanding network.

The Abu Dhabi carrier said in a newspaper advertisement that it was looking to lease residential apartments for up to four years.

It is seeking buildings with at least 28 apartments.

Etihad has been rapidly increasing its workforce as passenger growth through the capital accelerates.


By the end of last year, Etihad had 13,535 employees, up 27 per cent from 10,656 in 2012. Cities such as Abu Dhabi, Dubai and Doha are becoming central stages for world travel, as more passengers switch planes on long-haul routes, eating into the market share of more established hubs in Europe.

Craig Plumb, the head of research at Jones Lang LaSalle, said that the demand for apartments coming from Etihad was "good news" for the Abu Dhabi market.


"This will add more confidence in the rental sector and improve the sentiment in the market," he said. "There are a significant number of unoccupied apartments in Abu Dhabi. The announcement is positive because airlines take these apartments on a long-term basis."

Prime residential rents in Abu Dhabi were up by about 17 per cent last year, according to JLL.

Etihad’s rapid expansion mirrors that of the Dubai-based Emirates Airline, which has also been adding hundreds of new apartments and villas to accommodate cabin crew, pilots and engineers.


The carrier said last year that it was developing five residential towers in Silicon Oasis to accommodate hundreds of its staff.

Emirates leases and owns more than 12,000 apartments and villas in Dubai, making it one of the city’s largest landlords.

 

[gatehousethetinkertailor]

I understand that Cabin Crew and Air crew are given company accommodation as part of their package. 2 bedroom apartments for cabin crew and these have full amenities, pool, gym, amenities etc. They are condo standard. Did I get it wrong.

I believe it depends on the airline - typically two to an apartment but amenities vary depending on airline policy and availability of dwellings at that point in time. Each of these vary according to the Gulf country and the level of conservatism (Qatar ironically being the most conservative amongst the 3). Condo standards in the Gulf is nothing like what you expect in the West or SE Asia.

I understand that flight crew only pay if they give up on provided company accommodation and find their own place.

http://www.thenational.ae/business/industry-insights/aviation/etihad-on-residential-leasing-spree-in-abu-dhabi-as-staff-expands
Etihad on residential leasing spree in Abu Dhabi as staff expands
Shereen El Gazzar

March 17, 2014 Updated: March 18, 2014 09:24 AM


Related
Etihad Airways a ‘fair employer’ when it comes to cabin crew rules
Etihad Airways a ‘fair employer’ when it comes to cabin crew rules
Etihad aims to raise $2 billion to finance aircraft deliveries
Executive travel: How Etihad Airways is overcoming jet lag
Property contracts in Dubai to be made mandatory
Interactive: Etihad’s new destinations year by year
Topics: Emirates Airline Rent Etihad Airways
Etihad Airways is on the hunt for new apartments as it hires thousands of employees to serve its rapidly expanding network.

The Abu Dhabi carrier said in a newspaper advertisement that it was looking to lease residential apartments for up to four years.

It is seeking buildings with at least 28 apartments.

Etihad has been rapidly increasing its workforce as passenger growth through the capital accelerates.


By the end of last year, Etihad had 13,535 employees, up 27 per cent from 10,656 in 2012. Cities such as Abu Dhabi, Dubai and Doha are becoming central stages for world travel, as more passengers switch planes on long-haul routes, eating into the market share of more established hubs in Europe.

Craig Plumb, the head of research at Jones Lang LaSalle, said that the demand for apartments coming from Etihad was "good news" for the Abu Dhabi market.


"This will add more confidence in the rental sector and improve the sentiment in the market," he said. "There are a significant number of unoccupied apartments in Abu Dhabi. The announcement is positive because airlines take these apartments on a long-term basis."

Prime residential rents in Abu Dhabi were up by about 17 per cent last year, according to JLL.

Etihad’s rapid expansion mirrors that of the Dubai-based Emirates Airline, which has also been adding hundreds of new apartments and villas to accommodate cabin crew, pilots and engineers.


The carrier said last year that it was developing five residential towers in Silicon Oasis to accommodate hundreds of its staff.

Emirates leases and owns more than 12,000 apartments and villas in Dubai, making it one of the city’s largest landlords.

Between the 3 Etihad has the weakest network coverage, Emirates the widest and best established but Qatar is the most aggressive with expansion and market creep. In the same vein crew packages have not been consistent. As with typical construction timelines in the Gulf (except Dubai perhaps) add additional 5-10 years for any construction project deadline.

So as far I am aware crew are still charged for accommodation but the policy make have evolved based on completion of their own complexes - but is you read the article nowhere does it state that Etihad will be accommodating their crew for free in these apartments. They may be charged a nominally lower rate but it is still a rental deduction in their monthly paycheck (or at least it was as far as I know).

 

[nayr69sg]

Singapore's problem is expensive real estate. Operating costs eg rental is too high.

However, high real estate prices helps fund GIC. Sale of that $1 billion + land in Stirling Road is a way to get some money to keep entities like SIA alive.

However, selling land seems to me like a way to pass the bug on. Developer pays. Then sinkies pay. In the end it is the same thing right? Sinkies sucked dry to give GIC money.

Eventually the real estate market in Singapore will crash. It is a matter of when.

 

[eatshitndie]

I believe it depends on the airline - typically two to an apartment but amenities vary depending on airline policy and availability of dwellings at that point in time. Each of these vary according to the Gulf country and the level of conservatism (Qatar ironically being the most conservative amongst the 3). Condo standards in the Gulf is nothing like what you expect in the West or SE Asia.




Between the 3 Etihad has the weakest network coverage, Emirates the widest and best established but Qatar is the most aggressive with expansion and market creep. In the same vein crew packages have not been consistent. As with typical construction timelines in the Gulf (except Dubai perhaps) add additional 5-10 years for any construction project deadline.

So as far I am aware crew are still charged for accommodation but the policy make have evolved based on completion of their own complexes - but is you read the article nowhere does it state that Etihad will be accommodating their crew for free in these apartments. They may be charged a nominally lower rate but it is still a rental deduction in their monthly paycheck (or at least it was as far as I know).

united provide dormitories near airport hubs such as chicago, sfo, frankfurt for graduates of both cabin and cockpit training who are domiciled in their respective hubs, but they are like hotels for temporary or short stays and layovers, not long term. crew rates for these temporary domiciles are subsidized, not free. airline domicile, unlike the legal definition, refers to the home "base" or hub the crew is assigned to. they can apply for transfer to another domicile in another city after 6 months, depending on seniority and availability of opening or vacancy at target domicile. base or domicile supervisor job is available if you wish to meet many grannies assigned to domiciles away from their actual homes. many are married but available, having attained mba status on own volition.

 

[johnny333]

Was watching the movie iron man & in that movie SIA stood for Stark Industries in the New York Stock Exchange