Serious Shooting oneself in the foot: PAP’s screw up of the reserve elections for EP

[bobby]

A brief history of the Elected Presidency

In the late 80s, Old Fart started putting into plans for a method to stymie and tekan any oppo party that might win a General Election. His inner thoughts were revealed in 2008/2009 when he admitted that "Many voters now tell us openly - "my family, three of us vote for you but two of us voted against you". Just to let you know we want an opposition voice and we don't want you to be so overwhelming. So in that case you may have a freak result and that worries me." In other words, a freak result might happen and the PAP might lose the election even if they win the popular vote. The recent US election shows how this can happen. He also contemplated military action in the event of a "freak" election. But later, this was determined to be not feasible and not reliable given that the majority of the SAF were conscript soldiers or reservist and cannot be counted on to shoot protesters in the streets if need be.

The idea bandied around became the reality with the passing of the amendments for the EP. The thought behind this was that even if the PAP lost the election, an elected president beholden to the PAP and in the pocket of the PAP can still obstruct the new govt with the new oversight powers their President will have over the national reserves and what not. As with most things that the idiots think up, this had unexpected consequences. The GRC system although hugely favouring the PAP also hugely rewarded the oppo party that wins by giving them 6 seats at one time. Likewise, after the close call in the last EP where Uncle Tony won by the slightest of margins, they now have to figure out how rig the EP so that their candidate wins. Hence we have the reserved elections and the mess we have today.

It is all about TCB...maybe we should re-name the elections after after him instead.

Let it all be known that after Sept 2017, all Malays will be eternally grateful to TCB....for 4 years at least.

 

[PTADER]

However, our 2 geniuses forgot 2 things:

1) They forgot to clearly word the law in terms of exact racial lineage needed to qualify for people in their own group. They simply assumed that a Malay candidate means that both the candidate’s parents are Malays and they are of the Muslim faith. They did not take into account candidates who were a mix race, but still look like Malays. Nor did they build into the law any mechanism on how to ascertain and determine what the race is in the event there is a confusion.

This is untrue. Just because you are unaware does not mean that this has been "forgotten", "they simply assumed" or that there is no "any mechanism" "built into the law" to cover this. Section 8F of the Presidential Elections Act unambiguously states this:

8F. —(1) A person desiring to be elected as President must submit a community declaration in the prescribed form to the Community Committee.

​

(2) A person making a community declaration must make one (and only one) of the following statements:

​

(a) that the person considers himself to be a member of the Chinese community, and wishes to apply for a community certificate stating that the person belongs to the Chinese community;

​

(b) that the person considers himself to be a member of the Malay community, and wishes to apply for a community certificate stating that the person belongs to the Malay community;

​

(c) that the person considers himself to be a member of the Indian or other minority communities, and wishes to apply for a community certificate stating that the person belongs to the Indian or other minority communities;

​

(d) that the person does not consider himself to be a member of the Chinese community, the Malay community, or the Indian or other minority communities.
​

They did not take into account candidates who were a mix race, but still look like Malays. Nor did they build into the law any mechanism on how to ascertain and determine what the race is in the event there is a confusion.

It is precisely because there are issues in the determination of "mix race" that there is a "mechanism" on how to ascertain and determine what the race of a presidential aspirant is "in the event there is a confusion". Sections 8A - 8F of the Presidential Elections Act (Cap 240A) covers this very clearly and extensively.

The problem with a whole lot of your write ups and essays is that they are erroneous or entirely wrong. This is because they are based on premises which, whether by wilful design or sheer ignorance, are entirely wrong or untrue. Try to brush up on this.

 

[PTADER]

As a result, you have what you have today. People openly questioning the ‘Malayness” of the prime candidates. Is Halimah a Malay? Not according to the records if you go with the father’s race. She would be Indian.Now the PAP has to direct the Presidential Selection Committee to rule on the suitability of the candidate based on whether they are accepted as Malays by their community, even though that is not what the law says. If Halimah is determined to be a Malay by virtue of her Mother’s side, is Vivian Balakrishnan a Chinese by virtue of his Mother’s side too? The international press has weight in on this too, with recent articles in SCMP. They are digging themselves into a bigger hole every day. Even other potential candidates controlled by the PAP, like Masagoes, are not 100% Malay. Masagoes being half arab himself.

Your claim (in red) is complete bollocks. The law, Section 8F of the Presidential Elections Act which I referred to the post preceding this post, states exactly that the Committee has to rule on this.

The Malay Community Committee certified HY as a "Malay" when she stood as a Jurong GRC Malay candidate (2001 & 2006) & Marsiling - YT GRC in 2015. Section 27C of the Parliamentary Elections Act (Chap 218), states this:

"27C.—(1) For the purposes of section 27A, there shall be established —

​

(a) a Malay Community Committee whose function shall be to determine whether a person desiring to be a candidate for any election in any constituency designated under section 8A(1)(b)(i) belongs to the Malay community..."
​

All three GRCs required the minority candidate to be a "Malay". No one like you made a fuss throughout these 17 years. Why now?

The banner below explains what and why this confected and self-righteous outrage are about, and where they are coming from. Right at this very moment, a parallel scenario is being played out in Malaysia.



Dr Mahathir bin Mohamad served as the fourth Prime Minister of Malaysia for 22 years as a "Malay". He was accepted as one. He has never been questioned by those like Najib (current PM), Zahid (current DPM) and those who served under him or UMNO. It is different now though. He is on the other side. So they are openly calling him an Indian as they play the race card. (For those who do not know the national language or understand the subtext in the banner, the significance of "a/l" is that it stands for "anak lelaki (son of)". This was/is the typical "son of" names given to Indians. Malays have "bin" for "son of".)

So opposition to Halimah is not because she is "not" a Malay, but because she is seen by her detractors as a "PAP approved" candidate. She is the convenient scapegoat for the ABP (anything but PAP) crowd.

What is illogical though is that TCB has been a PAP MP for 26 years (1980 -2006), was the only backbencher who served 10 years in the PAP Central Executive Committee, served as the first PAP Feedback Chief, was Chairman of the PAP GPC (Government Parliamentary Committee) on National Development and was Chairman of the PAP run Jurong East Town Council. He also served as director of government companies like the Singapore Mass Rapid Transit Corporation (MRTC), and was non-executive Chairman of Chuan Hup Holdings, even as he rebutted criticisms "there will always be criticism about MPs who sit on boards of companies" but "this flow of talent from public to private sector" is to be accepted because "We should see Singapore as one big organisation ready to take on the world".

In short, TCB is a PAP man. Through and through.

 

[eatshitndie]

springbok kena sexposed and sprung.

 

[sleaguepunter]

Ah Sai u r soo good to Singkies. I will think 80% n only Hougang remains in OPPO hands.

u see hougang ppl too up. Since the last eRection, the dynamic of hougang smc had change quite a bit. There at least a couple thousands new households moved into the smc since 2015 with another few hundreds on the way end of this year 2017 when kingsford waterbay condo TOP in nov 2017. estimating 3 eligible adults per household, that another 6000-8000 new voters to hougang smc original 22k eligible voters, all these ppl are unknown voting pattern. Then there a steady loss of WP support from ppl who move out or having their IC punch hole.

It important for Ah Huat to connect with the new residents in new hdb blocks at ave 3 (Dewcourt) and ave 5 (Meadows) which these 2 avenues are the main core support for WP come from. The district around upper serangoon view which consist mainly of condo dwellers and the 7-8 hdb blocks maybe lighting supporters. i hope i am wrong but Ah Huat/WP would face a tough fight for the smc seat if they take support from the smc for granted. :(

 

[eatshitndie]

u see hougang ppl too up. Since the last eRection, the dynamic of hougang smc had change quite a bit. There at least a couple thousands new households moved into the smc since 2015 with another few hundreds on the way end of this year 2017 when kingsford waterbay condo TOP in nov 2017. estimating 3 eligible adults per household, that another 6000-8000 new voters to hougang smc original 22k eligible voters, all these ppl are unknown voting pattern. Then there a steady loss of WP support from ppl who move out or having their IC punch hole.

It important for Ah Huat to connect with the new residents in new hdb blocks at ave 3 (Dewcourt) and ave 5 (Meadows) which these 2 avenues are the main core support for WP come from. The district around upper serangoon view which consist mainly of condo dwellers and the 7-8 hdb blocks maybe lighting supporters. i hope i am wrong but Ah Huat/WP would face a tough fight for the smc seat if they take support from the smc for granted. :(

some hougangbang supporters move to sengkang, diluting the oppo core..

 

[The_Hypocrite]

u see hougang ppl too up. Since the last eRection, the dynamic of hougang smc had change quite a bit. There at least a couple thousands new households moved into the smc since 2015 with another few hundreds on the way end of this year 2017 when kingsford waterbay condo TOP in nov 2017. estimating 3 eligible adults per household, that another 6000-8000 new voters to hougang smc original 22k eligible voters, all these ppl are unknown voting pattern. Then there a steady loss of WP support from ppl who move out or having their IC punch hole.

It important for Ah Huat to connect with the new residents in new hdb blocks at ave 3 (Dewcourt) and ave 5 (Meadows) which these 2 avenues are the main core support for WP come from. The district around upper serangoon view which consist mainly of condo dwellers and the 7-8 hdb blocks maybe lighting supporters. i hope i am wrong but Ah Huat/WP would face a tough fight for the smc seat if they take support from the smc for granted. :(

Oh than ok..no OPPO seats in parleement. I hope it will happen..and I want it to happen..Singkies deserve the gahmen they vote for. They should be aware of the consequences of their vote. They should also get a taste of the old days with 100% Pappie dominance. I say this because I am sick of the typical so Singkies attitude of I vote pap but I hope opposition win...or I vote pap because I want my property to go up...they deserve the gahmen they vote for.

 

[Papsmearer]

This is untrue. Just because you are unaware does not mean that this has been "forgotten", "they simply assumed" or that there is no "any mechanism" "built into the law" to cover this. Section 8F of the Presidential Elections Act unambiguously states this:

8F. —(1) A person desiring to be elected as President must submit a community declaration in the prescribed form to the Community Committee.

​

(2) A person making a community declaration must make one (and only one) of the following statements:

​

(a) that the person considers himself to be a member of the Chinese community, and wishes to apply for a community certificate stating that the person belongs to the Chinese community;

​

(b) that the person considers himself to be a member of the Malay community, and wishes to apply for a community certificate stating that the person belongs to the Malay community;

​

(c) that the person considers himself to be a member of the Indian or other minority communities, and wishes to apply for a community certificate stating that the person belongs to the Indian or other minority communities;

​

(d) that the person does not consider himself to be a member of the Chinese community, the Malay community, or the Indian or other minority communities.
​

It is precisely because there are issues in the determination of "mix race" that there is a "mechanism" on how to ascertain and determine what the race of a presidential aspirant is "in the event there is a confusion". Sections 8A - 8F of the Presidential Elections Act (Cap 240A) covers this very clearly and extensively.

The problem with a whole lot of your write ups and essays is that they are erroneous or entirely wrong. This is because they are based on premises which, whether by wilful design or sheer ignorance, are entirely wrong or untrue. Try to brush up on this.

Of course, you are right. Of course, there is a clear cut way to determine Malayness by obtaining a community declaration issued by the Community Committee, saying that you belong to the Malay community.

Of course, since the 16 members of the Community Committee are all appointed by the Prime Minister, this declaration will be issued completely without bias or prejudice and will be a completely uninfluenced decision made by the Committee, regardless of what decision the PM wants.

Of course, all this fuss furore over the whole issue of the Malayness in the local and international media must be all misplaced like I was, because the mechanism you quoted above is so accurate and reliable and fair to the community.

Of course, very simple, quick, and accurate methods like a DNA test coupled with a genealogy study cannot be an acceptable mechanism to determine one's Malayness, but a committee of 16 can far better do this.

Of course, any mechanism put into place to create the result that the PAP wants, must be a legitimate and proper method, and must be very lawful because all but 6 members in the Parliament passed it.

Congratulations, you have done the PAP proud. I have been found out to be a fraud. I shall go quietly into the night now.

 

[yellowarse]

they deserve the gahmen they vote for.

Cannot agree more.

Yes, over the years the PAP has sued, detained or exiled many credible opposition candidates out of contention ... Yes, elections in Singapore are rigged: the ED reports to PMO, gerrymandering, pork-barrelling, the GRC system ... Yes, the print and broadcast media is biased and state-controlled ...

But there are still a decent number of very credible oppo chaps fighting to get in: Lim Tean, CSJ, TJS, AYG, Jeannette Aruldoss-Chong, Leon Perera, Paul Tambyah, Yee Jenn Jong ... Why are the voters not voting for them?

Sinkies truly deserve the government they voted for.

 

[Papsmearer]

Your claim (in red) is complete bollocks. The law, Section 8F of the Presidential Elections Act which I referred to the post preceding this post, states exactly that the Committee has to rule on this.

The Malay Community Committee certified HY as a "Malay" when she stood as a Jurong GRC Malay candidate (2001 & 2006) & Marsiling - YT GRC in 2015. Section 27C of the Parliamentary Elections Act (Chap 218), states this:

"27C.—(1) For the purposes of section 27A, there shall be established —

​

(a) a Malay Community Committee whose function shall be to determine whether a person desiring to be a candidate for any election in any constituency designated under section 8A(1)(b)(i) belongs to the Malay community..."
​

All three GRCs required the minority candidate to be a "Malay". No one like you made a fuss throughout these 17 years. Why now?

The banner below explains what and why this confected and self-righteous outrage are about, and where they are coming from. Right at this very moment, a parallel scenario is being played out in Malaysia.

View attachment 31321

Dr Mahathir bin Mohamad served as the fourth Prime Minister of Malaysia for 22 years as a "Malay". He was accepted as one. He has never been questioned by those like Najib (current PM), Zahid (current DPM) and those who served under him or UMNO. It is different now though. He is on the other side. So they are openly calling him an Indian as they play the race card. (For those who do not know the national language or understand the subtext in the banner, the significance of "a/l" is that it stands for "anak lelaki (son of)". This was/is the typical "son of" names given to Indians. Malays have "bin" for "son of".)

So opposition to Halimah is not because she is "not" a Malay, but because she is seen by her detractors as a "PAP approved" candidate. She is the convenient scapegoat for the ABP (anything but PAP) crowd.

What is illogical though is that TCB has been a PAP MP for 26 years (1980 -2006), was the only backbencher who served 10 years in the PAP Central Executive Committee, served as the first PAP Feedback Chief, was Chairman of the PAP GPC (Government Parliamentary Committee) on National Development and was Chairman of the PAP run Jurong East Town Council. He also served as director of government companies like the Singapore Mass Rapid Transit Corporation (MRTC), and was non-executive Chairman of Chuan Hup Holdings, even as he rebutted criticisms "there will always be criticism about MPs who sit on boards of companies" but "this flow of talent from public to private sector" is to be accepted because "We should see Singapore as one big organisation ready to take on the world".

In short, TCB is a PAP man. Through and through.

Nice try, but Mahathir at the most is only 25% non Malay. Mahathir's paternal grandfather was an Indian Muslim who married a local Malay woman, so his father was half Malay half Indian. Mahathir's mother was 100% Malay. So gene wise he is 25% Indian and 75% Malay, compared with Halimah's 50-50. The law says that in the event of a 50-50 tie, the deciding factor becomes the race of the father, which in Halimah's case means she is an Indian. Got it?

 

[jw5]

The main reason is that most sinkies are impressionable and easily manipulated, while some suffer from delusions of grandeur.

But there are still a decent number of very credible oppo chaps fighting to get in: Lim Tean, CSJ, TJS, AYG, Jeannette Aruldoss-Chong, Leon Perera, Paul Tambyah, Yee Jenn Jong ... Why are the voters not voting for them?

 

[tanwahtiu]

Starting to get the idea. Find pure malay in the 1% is like find a smart ass among the asses or donkey among donkies

 

[PTADER]

Of course, you are right. Of course, there is a clear cut way to determine Malayness by obtaining a community declaration issued by the Community Committee, saying that you belong to the Malay community.

Of course, since the 16 members of the Community Committee are all appointed by the Prime Minister, this declaration will be issued completely without bias or prejudice and will be a completely uninfluenced decision made by the Committee, regardless of what decision the PM wants.

Of course, all this fuss furore over the whole issue of the Malayness in the local and international media must be all misplaced like I was, because the mechanism you quoted above is so accurate and reliable and fair to the community.

Of course, very simple, quick, and accurate methods like a DNA test coupled with a genealogy study cannot be an acceptable mechanism to determine one's Malayness, but a committee of 16 can far better do this.

Of course, any mechanism put into place to create the result that the PAP wants, must be a legitimate and proper method, and must be very lawful because all but 6 members in the Parliament passed it.

Cut out the bullshit and exaggerations. There's some debate in the local media sparked on by the likes of you. Unless you consider that one-two write ups by the Press Trust of India, Al Riyadh and ANN Asia Network which simply reported this issue as a matter of simple news and not as the "furore" you claimed, there's not much interest in, and most certainly zero "furore" in the "international media" over this issue.

So what is the best course of action for the determination of a "Malay", "Chinese" or "Indian"? A "genealogy test"??? When you yourself stated in your very first post in this thread you started that "they did not take into account candidates who were a mix race, but still look like Malays"???

How will your favoured "genealogy test" proved that which is already known, i.e. that HY is a "mix race" of Indian and Malay? What comes next after the "genealogy test" proves that she is indeed an Indian-Malay "mix race"? A Sammyboy forum poll of 15+ "non-bias" people like you? Or by detractors who were nowhere to be found when HY lived her life as a Malay, and was declared a Malay by the MCC four times in 17 years between 2001 to 2015?

Are you so ignorant that you are unable to see the obvious, i.e. that CSJ, the SDP and its Malay candidate, Mohd Isa, would have objected, protested and seized on HY's certified status as a "Malay" candidate in Jurong GRC in 2001 if it was indeed an issue?

Are you so blinded by your ego that you are unable to see the obvious, i.e. that CSJ, the SDP and its Malay candidate, Damanhuri Abas Isa, would have objected, protested and seized on HY's certified status as a "Malay" candidate in Marsiling - YT GRC in 2015?

Congratulations, you have done the PAP proud. I have been found out to be a fraud. I shall go quietly into the night now.

You are not a "fraud". Rather, you are simply careless and miserably sloppy. By careless and sloppy, I am not referring to typos, grammar or misspellings. These are non issues. I am referring to readily available facts which you fail to check before writing or posting. This affects the quality of your writings which are otherwise very readable if not for their glaring mistakes. Your recent claim that GCT is no longer an MP is an example of how careless and sloppy you can be. As I said, you need to brush up on this.

 

[PTADER]

Nice try, but Mahathir at the most is only 25% non Malay. Mahathir's paternal grandfather was an Indian Muslim who married a local Malay woman, so his father was half Malay half Indian. Mahathir's mother was 100% Malay. So gene wise he is 25% Indian and 75% Malay, compared with Halimah's 50-50. The law says that in the event of a 50-50 tie, the deciding factor becomes the race of the father, which in Halimah's case means she is an Indian. Got it?

Show me "the law which says that in the event of a 50-50 tie, the deciding factor becomes the race of the father"?

I have already pointed out to you the existence of Sections 8A - 8F of the Presidential Elections Act (Cap 240A) which deals with all these race issues for presidential aspirants. Try to read up on this before you spout more nonsense.

This is another one of your problem. Besides not bothering to check your facts, you will try to defend what you say to the hilt with even more outrageous claims when your glaring and obvious errors are pointed out. Learn to be humble and accept that you can be wrong.

 

[yellowarse]

Show me "the law which says that in the event of a 50-50 tie, the deciding factor becomes the race of the father"?

And have you shown me where in the Women's Charter does it say that a marriage solemnized between two members of the opposite sex, i.e. legal at the time of union, becomes void if one spouse undergoes a sex change after marriage?

Rich, isn't it, seeing that you're demanding the same of Papsmearer. Papsmearer might be a little careless with the law, but you tried to defend your (indefensible) stand to the hilt by inventing your own law – which is downright dishonest, and a lot worse than being careless.

Or are you stalking Papsmearer and picking on him because he called you a 'homophobic bigot'? That's vindictiveness for you.

There, I pushed the wrong buttons again, so I'll take my leave.

 

[Sideswipe]

think if your identity card stated what race, then you are that race, and no other one by law. HY shouldn't be allowed to contest the general elections as a Malay candidate if her IC stated Indian race. at the least she should change her race to Malay on IC long ago.

 

[JHolmesJr]

she needs to take a dna test at ancestry.com

period.

 

[The_Hypocrite]

The main reason is that most sinkies are impressionable and easily manipulated, while some suffer from delusions of grandeur.

I view them as ignorant and unaware of consequences.

 

[Papsmearer]

Cut out the bullshit and exaggerations. There's some debate in the local media sparked on by the likes of you. Unless you consider that one-two write ups by the Press Trust of India, Al Riyadh and ANN Asia Network which simply reported this issue as a matter of simple news and not as the "furore" you claimed, there's not much interest in, and most certainly zero "furore" in the "international media" over this issue.

.

Of course, you are right, no furore in the international press,, must have been only local coverage started by people like me. BTW, i did a very quick google search and already found an article on it from South China Morning Post, definitely a more reputable publication then the SHit times or any of those above news outlet you mention.

http://www.scmp.com/week-asia/politics/article/2104516/singapore-how-malay-malay

Or how about this from an Aussie Institute?

http://www.internationalaffairs.org.au/ao-blog-post/singapore-elected-presidency-under-fire/

How about Yahoo? Are they a worthless news outlet too?

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/changes-to-elected-presidency-are-pretext-to-080110553.html

Ok, I am tired now of doing your work. If you think the international press did not take notice, then of course, you must be right. No matter how many examples I bring up, PAP porlumpars like u can believe what u want.

 

[scroobal]

He is branding Ptader of all people a PAP porlumpar. Are you ok with that. I have had more battles with Ptader than any one else in this forum and for the longest time. Not once did I label him a PAP supporter. I have misquoted him, did a couple of dirties which I am not proud of but never ever labelled the guy a PAP sycophant. He has provided lots of insight on the nonsense the PAP has done over the years just like and others and not once did he deviate when it come to the PAP. Lets be fair here.

Emotions run high on well known social issues and sometimes we all get carried away.

When it comes to substance and the articulation of it, no one comes close to Ptader, yourself and select few. Good to see both of you back in the trenches.

And have you shown me where in the Women's Charter does it say that a marriage solemnized between two members of the opposite sex, i.e. legal at the time of union, becomes void if one spouse undergoes a sex change after marriage?

Rich, isn't it, seeing that you're demanding the same of Papsmearer. Papsmearer might be a little careless with the law, but you tried to defend your (indefensible) stand to the hilt by inventing your own law – which is downright dishonest, and a lot worse than being careless.

Or are you stalking Papsmearer and picking on him because he called you a 'homophobic bigot'? That's vindictiveness for you.

There, I pushed the wrong buttons again, so I'll take my leave.