Sammyboy Moderators are all multi millionaires!

[tonychat]

They are in a small town and not in the 2 big cities. I cannot see myself sitting at the shop everyday and counting motorbikes
We love Sapa in the north. Thought of setting up shop there. The only thing that stop us is, there is no school for our future children in the mountains.

and this is exactly why you will NEVER be a millionaire. you don't have the right attitude. you want easy passive income. not willing to bust your balls off to make your million.

you are definitely 100% sinkie.

you're better off as a wage slave with a combined income of 8k/mth. with your current attitude, you will only meet with failure if you go overseas.

glad to know that someone uses the term sinkie correctly and bash someone so accurately.. keep it up!!!

 

[johnny333]

Hi, will take some time to read more on investing and on this website.

In short, if I want to slowly build some money for retirement, I should buy those stocks that are stable and has potential or even those blue chips? I understand that it is no stocks will have a label that says, "I am a potential stock", therefore alot of reading/research must be done on the company. Also, the "hunch" feeling plays an important part.


Can anyone comment if my above understanding is right?

I watch CNBC on a daily basis to keep up with the market news but be very careful of what some on the show recommend because many have their own agenda.

Important thing is to put in only what you can afford to lose. With this approach you won't feel like you have to sell everytime there's a dip in the market.

 

[johnny333]

Again Johnny thanks for all these wise words. I am not ready to get in yet however this should not stop me in opening an Etrade account now.

You're one lucky son of a gun . . . cheers

Actually I think you are luckier. You have a successful business that is stable & will give you an income stream. While I have to worry about market sentiments influenced by global problems like the Greek debt, Iran, etc.

There's no reason why people shouldn't dabble in the market. I know many busy people who do that. That's how I started & today I have a comfortable nest egg.

 

[Zatoichi]

There's no reason why people shouldn't dabble in the market.

I agree, but only if they can AFFORD to lose, which you aso said here:

Important thing is to put in only what you can afford to lose.

 

[johnny333]

I agree, but only if they can AFFORD to lose, which you aso said here:

When I dabble it is with funds I can afford to lose. The US markets is quite stable & there are companies which are unlikely to fail e.g. Microsoft, Qualcomm, Apple,...
The US is going through the worst recession in it's history & yet there arestill companies which are thriving.

There are some who think that many stocks are undervalued but who knows?

 

[Zatoichi]

When I dabble it is with funds I can afford to lose.

That's good! *thumbs up*

The US markets is quite stable & there are companies which are unlikely to fail e.g. Microsoft, Qualcomm, Apple,...
The US is going through the worst recession in it's history & yet there arestill companies which are thriving.

Yes, as long as there's no hyperinflation and only strong inflation in the money supply, strong companies can still remain strong and even if they weaken substantially, they can still "cook the books", so to speak, and things can still look "okay".

There are some who think that many stocks are undervalued but who knows?

Which is why it's still essentially a gamble! haha

Of course, companies can work hard and there could be other economic "fundamentals" which are "sound", but the simple reality that things COULD still go wrong causes the whole enterprise to essentially be a gamble... unless the company can afford to lose all its capital and even DOESN'T mind losing, in which case if it loses, it's like "donating" money to other people for whatever reason, and any revenue, let alone profit, would be a bonus! haha

 

[johnny333]

Which is why it's still essentially a gamble! haha

I know plenty of people who sold their Apple shares at around $100. You can imagine their frustration now If I was greedy I would have joined them & sold all my shares.

Apple has about 100 billion in cash & this cash pile is growing. Their products are still selling very well & there is still markets they haven't expanded into e.g. China, South America,..... There is also the rumoured Apple TV product that's coming. The valuation of this company still quite low when you compare it to other companies like Google. The recent price action saw the price go up to $548. There is also the prospect of an Apple dividen? I am confident that the price of AAPL will go up even more.

Even if I sold all my shares where would I put the money? Interest rates are so low. There's still alot of turmoil in the market. The Greece problem is still unresolved. I've heard that Portugal, etc is next.

Many don't realise that even if you have a million it's not all clear sailing because you have to start worrying about how to keeping it

 

[freedalas]

That's where the similarity ends. LKY is a genius. You're the opposite.

I'm glad that's where the similarity ends. I've have a conscience whereas LKY does not.

 

[Zatoichi]

I know plenty of people who sold their Apple shares at around $100. You can imagine their frustration now If I was greedy I would have joined them & sold all my shares.

I'm confused... do you mean if you were fearful, i.e. afraid that the price might have topped at $100 and dropped after that?
Because that was why those people sold at $100, i.e. they were afraid of a potential substantial drop in profit in the future, right?

To me, the fact that you have been brave and patient enough to wait until now implies that you were hoping for an even higher price to sell at, so that would be true greed... otherwise, what would that be called?

Apple has about 100 billion in cash & this cash pile is growing.

Yes, I've read a bit about that, so I'm aware of their famous cash pile, which I'm also in awe of! haha
And that's also one of the main reasons that investors are so in love with Apple, which causes its stock price to keep going up! haha

I am confident that the price of AAPL will go up even more.

I'm also confident, but as I've said earlier, it depends a lot on NO hyperinflation.

Even if I sold all my shares where would I put the money?...
Many don't realise that even if you have a million it's not all clear sailing because you have to start worrying about how to keeping it

Is that a serious question? If yes, I'd already answered that in one of my recent posts in this thread, which you might have read on page 6:

...but if I were you, I would have realized ALL my profits in the stock market within the past couple of years since late 2009, and invested at least 70% of my cash savings in commodities, especially precious metals and oil, not just because the next really big bull market is in commodities (which is already underway, and probably halfway since the new millennium began), but because of my fear of really strong inflation, or even HYPERinflation, when cash will no longer be "king", but FOOD!!

Even gold and silver might not be "king" because they'll be used to buy food.

As for how to invest in precious metals, I'd recommend owning the physical metal itself and literally keeping it at home or even under your bed! haha

Which reminds me of why the USA (and its allies) is so powerful...
As the saying goes, "He who has the gold makes the rules."

According to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_gold_reserves#Officially_reported_gold_holdings
the USA's gold reserves is right at the top, and most of the top 50 countries on that list are its allies.
Which means that IF ALL paper currencies were to become worthless, all external debt ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt ) would go to near zero, and all forex reserves ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...s#List_of_states_by_foreign-exchange_reserves ) would consist ONLY of GOLD.
After that, there'll be some kind of currency reform, so whoever owns physical gold would benefit the most...

Of course, if there's war, that would be a different story, in which GUNS would be "king", i.e. whoever or whichever country (and its allies) has the strongest armed forces would survive.

 

[johnny333]

I'm confused... do you mean if you were fearful, i.e. afraid that the price might have topped at $100 and dropped after that?
Because that was why those people sold at $100, i.e. they were afraid of a potential substantial drop in profit in the future, right?

Many people are quick to sell because they believed the price has reached the top. While I think the prices will keep going up. Maybe that's why I'm more of an investor than a trader. If I pick a company to invest in, it is with expectations of the price going up & not down.

That's how I lost money investing in unit trusts in Spore. I could have sold at a profit but my mistake was treating it as a long term investment instead of a short term investment.

My more successful investments are long term e.g. Apple, IBM, Malaysian shares & my RRSP investments in Canada. They are more long term plays than short term investments.

When the time is right I will be gradually divest out of my investments. I will hold more cash & go into short term trading in ETFs. I don't think commodities is for me, it's too risky. I've been burned playing in the forex market

 

[axe168]

"Once the first million is achieved, the 2nd million comes easily."

Agree. Once you have achieved the 1 million marks, bankers will start knocking on your door inviting you to borrow more.. with more borrowing your 2nd million will come quickly !

 

[Froggy]

Actually I think you are luckier. You have a successful business that is stable & will give you an income stream. While I have to worry about market sentiments influenced by global problems like the Greek debt, Iran, etc.

There's no reason why people shouldn't dabble in the market. I know many busy people who do that. That's how I started & today I have a comfortable nest egg.

I am glad to have a stable business here. My business partners had run this business like a tight ship for the past 20 years although I joined only 7 years ago. Over the 20 years the business had gone through many crisis in this country, the many financial crisis since 97, political instabilities, coup, floods etc etc we had been able to weather them off very well with averaging growth of 33% over past 8 years so this is stability for us. I am lucky indeed but worked our ass off sometimes.

 

[Zatoichi]

Many people are quick to sell because they believed the price has reached the top.

In other words, such people are "bearish", regardless of whether they are selling at the top or at the bottom or anywhere in between.
Because a seller = a "bear" = a trader/investor who fears a drop in price causing a drop in profits or even a loss of a portion of his/her capital.
So if you had joined such sellers in selling some of your Apple shares at $100 some years ago, you wouldn't be greedy, but fearful, in my opinion...
That's what confused me when you said you would have been "greedy"...

If I pick a company to invest in, it is with expectations of the price going up & not down.

Yes, that would be true greed, and that's what ALL investors, rich or not-so-rich and short-term or long-term, expect and hope because of greed! haha
But one thing for sure is that NO stock price can go up FOREVER.
Some CURRENT stocks might be around their all-time highs NOW, but that does not guarantee them to keep going up indefinitely.
And as the saying goes, it's "better to be safe than sorry"...

That's how I lost money investing in unit trusts in Spore. I could have sold at a profit but my mistake was treating it as a long term investment instead of a short term investment.

In my opinion, unit trusts are for ignorant investors; that's why they need to literally rely on, and trust, the fund managers of unit trusts to grow their wealth.

My more successful investments are long term e.g. Apple, IBM, Malaysian shares & my RRSP investments in Canada. They are more long term plays than short term investments.

In my opinion again, you were lucky to have been well advised in the beginning.

When the time is right I will be gradually divest out of my investments.

May I ask, what's the "right" time for you?
When the market turns really bearish because of some reason?
If yes, there's no guarantee that you can sell out at a profitable price; or even if you manage to be profitable, it would still be at a substantial loss from your previous unrealized profit...

I believe you should be aware of the saying (I can't remember whether it was by Warren Buffett or someone else...) that goes something like this:
"Be greedy (or bullish and buying) when everybody is fearful (or bearish and selling), but be fearful (or bearish and selling) when everybody is greedy (or bullish and buying)."

In my opinion, Apple is one such "bullish" stock, and there's no harm selling at least a quarter (if you think half is too much) of your Apple shares.
Once again, you have been warned!
Of course, if Apple really goes to around $750, which is what you hope for, then you're free to blame me for advising you to sell at around $500! haha
But at least you'll still have three-quarters of your current Apple shareholdings to sell at around $750!

I've been burned playing in the forex market

Me too! haha

But that's why I never recommended "playing" the forex market, i.e. the DERIVATIVES market, whether over-the-counter or futures.
It's the market where the most money can be made in the shortest period of time because it has the highest liquidity and volatility, but also the market where the most money can be lost if you bet in the wrong direction! haha

What I recommended was mainly owning PHYSICAL gold or silver bars that you can see and touch and hold in your hand and literally store under your bed!

For example, gold was trading at around US$300 per troy ounce in 2002.
It's now almost exactly 10 years later in 2012, and gold is trading well above US$1,500 per troy ounce (5 times or 400% gain), or nearly US$1,800 (6 times or 500% gain) in only 10 years! (Needless to say, it beats any fixed deposit in any currency in any country!)
And even that is not considered a bubble by many long-term investors in the precious metals market, who are predicting US$10,000-gold before the end of this decade, simply because of stagflation! Here's one such investor:

How High Can Gold Go Before Peaking - Gold Dow Jones Ratio Important Indicator
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article3753.html

But my personaly favourite is still silver! haha

...averaging growth of 33% over past 8 years so this is stability for us.

Wow! That's not just stability, it's a substantial growth of around ten times in eight years!
I mean, 1.33 ^ 8 = 9.79; is that roughly what you mean too?

 

[Froggy]

Wow! That's not just stability, it's a substantial growth of around ten times in eight years!
I mean, 1.33 ^ 8 = 9.79; is that roughly what you mean too?

Yes compare to just before I joined we're more than 8 times bigger and all thanks to good partnership as each one of us have our own strengths on each product and marketing skills and when combined it became a force to be reckoned with. Also amount us we have good understanding of each other and agreed to reinvest all our profits back into the business. We just draw salary and bonuses but of course pay ourselves comfortably and each family spend within our means. This is the secret to have good partnership and I guess it's very rare. Non of us had ever given pressure to each other bob asking for dividends etc.

 

[johnny333]

I am glad to have a stable business here. My business partners had run this business like a tight ship for the past 20 years although I joined only 7 years ago. Over the 20 years the business had gone through many crisis in this country, the many financial crisis since 97, political instabilities, coup, floods etc etc we had been able to weather them off very well with averaging growth of 33% over past 8 years so this is stability for us. I am lucky indeed but worked our ass off sometimes.

The financial crisis was a rough time for everyone. Just imagine seeing your savings go up in smoke. I blew my forex account(s) & it was sizeable, in the 100,000s,hoping that the market would turn. Of course you could make a fortune in 1 day if you got ithe market direction correct

Even Apple shares dropped to $110. Looking back we can all smile with relieve but it was bad that even the PAP had to guarantee ALL Spore deposits or risk a run in on the banks.

If your business survived it should survive anything

 

[Froggy]

If your business survived it should survive anything

Thanks for the encouragement. We're doing our best but it seems we want to do more and more and more, new challenges becomes addictive now.

 

[johnny333]

In other words, such people are "bearish",........?

I try to keep things simple, I don't like to use those terms like bulls, bears, ....maybe that's why I'm having trouble learning to trade in options. There's plenty of terminology to digest. :o

I've got an arbitrary target of $750 before I will consider selling because I don't need the cash & the shares appear to be doing well. May seem like a half baked way of investing but I do keep up with what Apple is doing on a daily basis. With a strong product line I have a good feeling about the shares Even if the price of the share prices stagnate I will have made a decent profit.

I got involved with unit trusts 20+ years ago. I was following the crowd of newbie investors:p. It took 10 years before I realized that it was better to invest elsewhere. However I did take a shotgun approach investing in the 3 markets at about the same time: US, Malaysian & Spore market. Over time I scaled back on my Spore investments because of the higher costs. Today I have zero investments in Spore except for the CPF investment scheme. I sold off all my Spore investments just before the beginning of the financial crisis. Unfortunately I put most of it into the forex market:p

I've got over 20+ years of experience losing my own money. I can understand why people are reluctant to give financial advise to friends because they will lose friends that way. I don't trust the so called "experts" because I'm a suspicious Sporean The true experts are quietly making $$$ & you may meet them in the various financial forums. They don't go around with a name card from some financial instituition.

No one expected gold to reach these lofty levels. If only I had invested the money I lost in the forex market into Apple, Gold, Citi,.... IF, IF, IF... As an investor you just have to take your loses & move on. For those who are risk aversive they can stick their funds in the bank but with the inflation in Spore you are losing $$. Or better still if you can afford to invest in properties it's the simplest form of investment.

 

[johnny333]

Thanks for the encouragement. We're doing our best but it seems we want to do more and more and more, new challenges becomes addictive now.

What encouragement It is envy You are out there enjoying life while I have to listen to LKY's hard truths

 

[king_of_abalone]

7 figure is million dollars (you go to school before?), i bet he include his over inflated house price. i bet he own the bank a lot of money too.

Sam where are you?

Your moderator doesn't know the difference between "own" and "owe"!

Mai sia sway leh!

 

[Zatoichi]

...we have good understanding of each other and agreed to reinvest all our profits back into the business. We just draw salary and bonuses but of course pay ourselves comfortably and each family spend within our means.

Yes, I like your business philosophy too! *thumbs up*

But my business philosophy for myself and for anyone else still includes LUCK as the FOUNDATION...
Whether we like it or not, even if we don't agree at first, everyone who's HONEST will eventually have to accept the reality that despite all the hard work and intelligence and knowledge, luck still played not just an important role, but even a FUNDAMENTAL role when all the important factors are considered, even if it seems that hard work took up more TIME...

... it seems we want to do more and more and more, new challenges becomes addictive now.

"do more and more and more"
= higher and higher and higher COSTS
= higher and higher and higher RISKS
= bigger and bigger and bigger PROFITS
OR = bigger and bigger and bigger LOSSES

So, be careful...

Even Apple shares dropped to $110.

According to the chart here: http://www.google.com/finance?q=apple
it seems the low was $82.33 in January 2009, just 3 years ago.
So those friends of yours who sold at $100+ in 2007 or 2008, could/might have bought back in at below $100 in early 2009...

May seem like a half baked way of investing....

Haha, even you yourself think your investing strategy is "half baked" and yet you still want to continue with it?
So now, besides receiving warnings from other people, you are also subconsciously warning yourself! haha

With a strong product line I have a good feeling about the shares

So do I!
But "feelings" can't always be trusted, right?

I've got over 20+ years of experience losing my own money.

No wonder you are a "loser"! haha
Fortunately, your Apple shareholdings are "saving" you for now...

I don't trust the so called "experts" because I'm a suspicious Sporean

Neither do I, especially all those CNBC "experts"!

The true experts are quietly making $$$ & you may meet them in the various financial forums. They don't go around with a name card from some financial instituition.

There's one expert I trust a lot: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Schiff
And my favourite one-stop website about the worldwide economy and the financial markets (especially the U.S. economy and markets) is: http://www.financialsense.com/

No one expected gold to reach these lofty levels.

Except those who understood inflation in the money supply!

Or better still if you can afford to invest in properties it's the simplest form of investment.

No, it isn't...
The simplest form of investment is a simple fixed deposit.
But the simplest (and safest) form of highly-profitable investment is the purchasing of physical gold and silver bars, and storing them under your bed!