'Revelations' from SDP EGM last night

[metalmickey]

Agree that opposition unity is not something abstract and unreachable.

Problem is: are our opposition leaders and supporters willing to put aside their 'beggar thy neighbour' mentality and come together for the greater good – to oust a tyrannical government?

Are our voters mature enough to want to see and support an opposition alliance? Or do they prefer bickering over 'my dad's bigger than your dad'?

My observations are rather pessimistic: we are not ready for unity. So let the battle begin in GE2016 and let the fittest survive. If it means that only 1 or 2 opposition parties will survive to face the behemoth incumbent, so be it.

No, I meant that the prospect that opposition will gain 1/3 of the seats is not something abstract and unreachable. It is closer than a lot of people realise. When that happens, "opposition unity" will be a much bigger issue than it is today.

There is one form of "opposition unity" that exists. Low Thia Khiang has managed to unite his party by imposing a fairly strict discipline. In fact I suspect that his own experience in doing so makes him think that it is probably not his problem to try to unite the factions that lie outside of his party - why should I crack my heads for them? Let the most talented people from the opposition cross over to my party if they wish.

The really big issue is that right now, the opposition parties are in a big bind. There is the old guard. They have paid their dues, but because they joined the parties at a time when the selection criteria was not strict, maybe they're not good leaders. Then there is the new guard, teeming with ideas (but also with a lot of dumb but idealistic people mixed in). I predict that the power struggles will get worse, especially now that the situation is changing so fast that a lot of opposition party people have to assume responsibilities they never dreamed of previously.

 

[yellowarse]

i would think his current political awareness came from learning from others and his own previous experience against the pap.

I think the capacity for shrewdness is inborn. Experience sharpens and hones it. If you're born a gong kia, no amount of experience will make you shrewd. We have seen village idiots like that.

 

[yellowarse]

No, I meant that the prospect that opposition will gain 1/3 of the seats is not something abstract and unreachable. It is closer than a lot of people realise. When that happens, "opposition unity" will be a much bigger issue than it is today.

Got you. I think without some kind of an alliance – including or excluding WP – 1/3 of the seats is at least 3 GEs away, maybe longer. Call me a pessimist, but I'm actually a realist. Remember, the PAP keeps shifting the goalposts and tilting the playing field. There may come a time when the whole of Singapore will be divided into 4 giant GRCs.

With an alliance, even a loose one, it can be done in 2016. And a coalition in 2021.

We have been screwed for 50 years. You want your kids to be screwed for another 50 years?

 

[sleaguepunter]

Agree that opposition unity is not something abstract and unreachable.

Problem is: are our opposition leaders and supporters willing to put aside their 'beggar thy neighbour' mentality and come together for the greater good – to oust a tyrannical government?

Are our voters mature enough to want to see and support an opposition alliance? Or do they prefer bickering over 'my dad's bigger than your dad'?

My observations are rather pessimistic: we are not ready for unity. So let the battle begin in GE2016 and let the fittest survive. If it means that only 1 or 2 opposition parties will survive to face the behemoth incumbent, so be it.

personally, i dun agree the current pie sharing system used by all the APs. chope seat system is nuts as it prevent a better party from contesting in an area "chope" by a smaller party who had no hope of winning. just like west coast where RP received a low vote count, and now with the talent drain in RP, wont it be better for a better party to take over and let RP close shop forever. same with SDA, 30% support only, no chance of winning, so next better player shd take over and give the electorates a better choice.

 

[billisnotathome]

Dear Yellow

I have wished for the SDP to be a bit more like the WP and the WP needing some degree of professionalism as put forth by the SDP,

Chee's flaw, fatal flaw is IMHO listening to the wrong sort of people, surrounding yourself with NGO activists and ISA detainees entails creating the sort of liberal echo chamber resulting in the present debacle,

WP needs the SDP base, but SDP needs the WP base and both need some of the PAP voters, If u want 50.1 it means moving to the centre always has and always will, If you are to far left for the electorate then u are to far left and no amount of professional spin will help or change that.

That poor chap sees the example of the win by the WP and wants that for himself but it entails doing certain things in a certain manner which contradicts the core beliefs of himself and his group and its hard to unprogramme ones internal software.

Michelle is now busy selling hammer, temple dinners, and doing MPS with the WP, She will soon find herself two years before the next GE knocking on every door in a targeted constituency burning weekend notes and weekday notes. Ever wondered why all new recruits are put through such a screening process ?

My hope for the SDP is not CSJ but VW, PT and AGY for they have less of the baggage and angst n hopefully more of the clear calculation needed to prosper in politics in singapore


Locke

Another top fucking post bro. People need to start getting real and exercise some rational thinking. Priority number one, get yourself electable. Everything else, including the much fabled 'opposition unity', comes second.

 

[sleaguepunter]

I think the capacity for shrewdness is inborn. Experience sharpens and hones it. If you're born a gong kia, no amount of experience will make you shrewd. We have seen village idiots like that.

if dr chee a "gong kia" (your word not mine), then wont it better to kick dr chee upstair and leave the post of gen-sec to a better qualified candidate. he remind me of mao, a great political fighter but lousy politician.

 

[metalmickey]

personally, i dun agree the current pie sharing system used by all the APs. chope seat system is nuts as it prevent a better party from contesting in an area "chope" by a smaller party who had no hope of winning. just like west coast where RP received a low vote count, and now with the talent drain in RP, wont it be better for a better party to take over and let RP close shop forever. same with SDA, 30% support only, no chance of winning, so next better player shd take over and give the electorates a better choice.

That's the problem with first past the post. The pie sharing system is something that you cannot avoid because it is so important to avoid 3 corner fights. Unfortunately the "chope seat" system means how many parties get to compete in how many constituencies becomes something that takes place at party politics, rather than having democratic input from the people. That is why so many countries with first past the post quite tulan the system.

 

[yellowarse]

I have wished for the SDP to be a bit more like the WP and the WP needing some degree of professionalism as put forth by the SDP

I can drink to that.

For one, I think SDP should learn how to walk the ground, do the grassroots thing, engage the folks. All the people-centric policies and socialist vision don't mean a thing if people in the heartland don't see you, don't know you and don't know what you stand for. They only vote for you if they know you and like you.

 

[yellowarse]

if dr chee a "gong kia" (your word not mine), then wont it better to kick dr chee upstair and leave the post of gen-sec to a better qualified candidate. he remind me of mao, a great political fighter but lousy politician.

I'm more in favour of a gradual succession plan, say over the next 5 to 6 years. A sudden change won't be good for morale.

 

[scroobal]

I have to agree with Yellowarse on his assessment. Of all the political parties, SDP has the slickest machine on so many fronts. You can only achieve that with a man with strong qualities.

Unfortunately he completely lacks the most important attribute and therefore completely hopeless or impotent for the field that he is participating in. That is political acumen and the mind to lead a political party. This has nothing to do with determination, drive or vision. All these traits are of little use to him.

SDP has wasted 20 years. He should move on to an NGO or lead an interest group.

 

[scroobal]

I have to disagree. Time for him step down. But I know he won't and the good ones will leave. Morale would not be factor for the remaining.

I'm more in favour of a gradual succession plan, say over the next 5 to 6 years. A sudden change won't be good for morale.

 

[wwabbit]

Another vision is: let's sit down and talk. You take this area, I take this place, he take that area. Together we deny PAP a 2/3 majority. If we get a simple 50% + 1 majority, we form a coalition govt.

This has already been happening for the past few GEs.
Didn't work out perfectly though, considering we ended up with a whiny little girl crying about her beloved Moulmein Kalling on a blog.

 

[SgParent]

Re: Chee Is Merely Testing The Water

Even if WP wins an additional SMC, what can they do ? They did nothing but endorsing PAP's policies and to second their salaries instead. Sometimes, I wonder which side you are in.

Just to confirm, is WP going to kick out more and more White Scums, some even Minstars?

If so, then I'm not complaining.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Scroobal,

You have been fooled by this WP IB Fred Tan's work... haha...

Goh Meng Seng

Actually its seems be a natural response to what Chee has been doing. I am sure the CEC of any party would have reacted in this manner.

 

[Hawkeye1819]

Scroobal,

You have been fooled by this WP IB Fred Tan's work... haha...

Goh Meng Seng

Yes goh meng seng is correct.

The posting by Fred tan and Ravi poolmani is a work of fiction.

That was not what happened

 

[metalmickey]

Yes goh meng seng is correct.

The posting by Fred tan and Ravi poolmani is a work of fiction.

That was not what happened

I don't know which one is more disturbing, the fact that it did happen or the fact that it didn't happen. You mean Chee Soon Juan pulled off all this shit and he had the support of the whole SDP all this while? That is a really really bad reflection of SDP.

At least we know that Ang Yong Guan didn't quit SDP - or did he?

 

[metalmickey]

Got you. I think without some kind of an alliance – including or excluding WP – 1/3 of the seats is at least 3 GEs away, maybe longer. Call me a pessimist, but I'm actually a realist. Remember, the PAP keeps shifting the goalposts and tilting the playing field. There may come a time when the whole of Singapore will be divided into 4 giant GRCs.

With an alliance, even a loose one, it can be done in 2016. And a coalition in 2021.

We have been screwed for 50 years. You want your kids to be screwed for another 50 years?

Singapore will never have a GRC more than 6 people. If it happens, then there will be a popular uprising. Perhaps a popular uprising is already under way, in slow motion.

The single biggest factor determining the way that Singaporeans vote is how upset people are with the PAP, not anything positive like the performance of the opposition parties. PAP losing 1/3 of the seats could be as early as 2016, because it can be achieved with 46, 47% of the popular vote.

It is not whether the opposition parties want to form an alliance. They will be forced to form alliances, whether they like it or not. Some people say that the PAP losing power ASAP is a good thing. I'm not sure about that. The opposition will have to learn very very quickly.

 

[scroobal]

For the way this was conducted by CSJ, I would have expected sensible CEC members to react in the way thar was described and that it is what I actually stated in the posy.

If that is not how CEC played, I am now not only disappointed with CSJ but the whole CEC. It certainly reflects poorly of them.

Yes goh meng seng is correct.

The posting by Fred tan and Ravi poolmani is a work of fiction.

That was not what happened

 

[yellowarse]

For the way this was conducted by CSJ, I would have expected sensible CEC members to react in the way thar was described and that it is what I actually stated in the posy.

If that is not how CEC played, I am now not only disappointed with CSJ but the whole CEC. It certainly reflects poorly of them.

From what I heard, the CEC did react to strong feedback from its supporters and grassroots workers about negative sentiments on the ground. Hence the eleventh hour pullout. CSJ himself acknowledged the PR disaster.

But Ravi's report about threatened resignations, no-confidence vote, near-mayhem etc is largely fictitious, to be taken with a bucket of salt. Probably the ghost-written work of the PAP or WP IB.

 

[Fook Seng]

From what I heard, the CEC did react to strong feedback from its supporters and grassroots workers about negative sentiments on the ground. Hence the eleventh hour pullout. CSJ himself acknowledged the PR disaster.

But Ravi's report about threatened resignations, no-confidence vote, near-mayhem etc is largely fictitious, to be taken with a bucket of salt. Probably the ghost-written work of the PAP or WP IB.

By the way is Ravi really an Indian?