Regulators Refusing to Act - Hyflux & Noble Group's Decline

[JustLikeThis]

Good morning, I refer to this earlier post from the friend who first highlighted that the proof-of-claims was fishy.
https://www.sammyboy.com/threads/hy...egulators-refusing-to-act.258403/post-2853044
He is a former legal counsel with one of the parties involved. This is a cut & paste of a whatsapp warning from him this morning.

..........it is just numbers manipulation, Ernst assumed total claims from project disruptions, so unsecured bankers get about 25% back. In actual fact, if there is no claim from project disruptions, colleague told me that unsecured bankers just need to lose 25%, and can get back up to 75% (likely 60-75%). Ernst has also gently asked DBS corporate bankers if DBS can consider using the nominee account votes to give the support. Brother, this is unheard of.........​

I draw the following conclusions:

1. Apparently, Hyflux added contingency liabilities, termed "project disruption" above, to dilute the retail votes. This was what common sense told us last week, when we realized that the proposal can't be bothered with us (eg. 3% cash back deal).

2. The friend explained that intentionally or not, our media was fooled to believe that unsecured bankers get back only about 25% (24.7% mentioned in the press). His sources explained to him that if all projects are completed, then unsecured bankers can get about 60-75%, vs our miserable compensation. This is very scheming and misleading. Almost all bankers will support such a sweet deal at the expense of retail investors and EY manipulated the voting eligibility by adding contingency liabilities.

3. DBS's nominee accounts has massive Hyflux exposures because they offered leverage on Hyflux Preference & Perpetuals, along with those brought with SRS and CPF. With large loan exposures to Hyflux, it is in DBS corporate bankers' interests that the restructuring will give them 60-75% money back, EY is shrewd to recommend DBS vote in favor of the restructuring using the Preference & Perpetual votes that received no instruction from clients. Usually bankers will abstain from voting if no instructions given, but it is also technically legal for DBS to vote in the best of their judgement to recover monies from bankrupted Hyflux investors who bought with leverage; getting 3% cash back and some worthless shares is better than nothing if Hyflux liquidates.

With these, I shall end with the following article titled,"How Hyflux was taken advantage by almost everyone"
http://investmoolah.blogspot.com/2019/02/why-hyflux-was-taken-advantage-by.html

I shared ten days ago that bankers can get as much as 60-75% back if there is lower or no contingency claims. Imagining adding half a billion worth of Perpetual bonds in this "class" and the bankers will be getting significantly less than 60% back; giving the likelihood that more bankers will also vote NO and ruin EY's evil plans.

Today's Straits Times verified my claim:
Source - https://www.straitstimes.com/business/hyflux-retail-investors-want-fairer-share-of-assets-sias
If the contingent claimants drop all claims against Hyflux and forgo their entitlement under the plan, the unsecured creditors' recovery will jump to 80 per cent. 80%%%%%% Of course bankers will vote YES.

In projects, it is not uncommon to have delays but delays don't trigger contingency claims. Contingency Claims is for UNCOMPLETED projects (highly unlikely), not delayed projects. In fact, if projects can be completed, Olivia and her team get a massive payout which can be higher than the $27m allocated for all perpetual and preference sharesholders.

 

[JustLikeThis]

Uncle ah, you talking to imaginary friend is it? How you get all these friends and leaks?

Not imaginary friends. Nothing fake from me in this thread. The truth (about the bad deals) hurts, so some people might find it hard to stomach. Olivia lied about many things. Please read this thread again, I am just giving warnings from my sources. You should doubt Olivia, not me. She did the same to the founding members of Hyflux/Hydrochem. She is doing these to us too now. Seniors in Nanyang University alumni know her deeds.

Olivia Lum wasn't really the founder of Hydrochem (Hyflux). It was the Nanyang University professor and some students. The professor got cancer and she took over company and kicked out the other founding students. There were a lot of hypocrisy during that period. This woman is not that great, she just stole the power in Hyflux and glory. Today, she is doing the same again.

PAP incorporated Nanyang University into NUS in early 1980s. NUS had never really had really successful "incubator business" but the Nanyang University professor and his students were having breakthrough with water technology in late 1980s. Olivia was not even the pioneer batch or founding members, she was "pure" NUS. This women was scheming and took the opportunity when the professor had to exit because of his cancer.

NUS was desperate to have some achievement and water technology will get into Lee Kuan Yew's good books. It was something that NUS tried to

 

[JustLikeThis]

I am not hopeful. Known a couple of them whom despite this mess, they will fuck pap but when come to voting, will also vote pap.

I am just doing what I can here. I tried my best.

 

[Focus]

Bloomberg - Singapore Says Unable to Intervene in 'Commercial' Hyflux Matter
2019-03-01 04:04:09.592 GMT

By David Yong
[Bloomberg] - Singapore's authorities are unable to intervene in Hyflux's debt reorganization, saying the process is a commercial matter, according to a joint statement from the city-state's monetary authority and the Ministry of the Environment and Water Resources.

"As you are aware, all investments carry risks. Businesses can come under financial stress and are not immune to defaults," the statement state.

 

[rushifa666]

City Harvest's followers are still supporting City Harvest. They never asked for their money back.

There is no asking. This isnt a scam. You know the rules and risks. The only concern here is fucked up regulators

 

[JustLikeThis]

There is no asking. This isnt a scam. You know the rules and risks. The only concern here is fucked up regulators

Yes, regulators digging their own graves. SGX is unregulated like a cowboy town.

The collapse of O&M counters, noble, hyflux wiped off multi-billions worth of savings. The proposed debt written-off for Hyflux is equivalent to the current market cap of Starhub. Let's put things in perspective, it is almost 3 times of Sgx's trading volume for today.

and can we find a local reporter who can feature the following headline,
"Hyflux Unsecured Bankers can get up to 80% back while Retail Investors stuck with a 3-10% recovery"

 

[Filloz]

Not imaginary friends. Nothing fake from me in this thread. The truth (about the bad deals) hurts, so some people might find it hard to stomach. Olivia lied about many things. Please read this thread again, I am just giving warnings from my sources. You should doubt Olivia, not me. She did the same to the founding members of Hyflux/Hydrochem. She is doing these to us too now. Seniors in Nanyang University alumni know her deeds.

Olivia Lum wasn't really the founder of Hydrochem (Hyflux). It was the Nanyang University professor and some students. The professor got cancer and she took over company and kicked out the other founding students. There were a lot of hypocrisy during that period. This woman is not that great, she just stole the power in Hyflux and glory. Today, she is doing the same again.

PAP incorporated Nanyang University into NUS in early 1980s. NUS had never really had really successful "incubator business" but the Nanyang University professor and his students were having breakthrough with water technology in late 1980s. Olivia was not even the pioneer batch or founding members, she was "pure" NUS. This women was scheming and took the opportunity when the professor had to exit because of his cancer.

NUS was desperate to have some achievement and water technology will get into Lee Kuan Yew's good books. It was something that NUS tried to

Uncle ah, i prove to you that you are biased ok?

In this post,
https://www.sammyboy.com/threads/hy...egulators-refusing-to-act.258403/post-2867459
you quoted this website.
http://www.hnworth.com/article/2019...de-spare-a-thought-for-vickers-hyflux-and-sgx

The same author, the same article shared our concerns, but you never highlight that he mentioned that the restructuring vote was super unfair to MTN bond holders. He highlighted that MTN bondholders accepted the 4% coupons in return for lower risks, and deserved to be paid fully, before the perps and prefs get a single cents. THIS IS BUSINESS LAW. THIS IS THE RULE.

"Senior bondholders will get paid less because subordinated debt holders will need to paid too which is a lesson in bond restructuring as opposed to company liquidation. We can bet they would be feeling the most irate given they had accepted lower coupons of 4+% percent for years against the 6% that subordinated bond holders were paid and totaling those up, maybe they could have gone for the riskier perpetual bond bet for less investment quantum?"

MTN BONDHOLDERS REJECT AND VOTE NO.
This restructuring broke the rules of bonds. You don't pretend you don't understand ok?

We have the majority in numbers under the Senior Unsecured Creditor Class. Notesholders call the shot. Our Accredited Investors (AI) are there in numbers to SAY NO to give HYFLUX and everyone will be at our mercy.

 

[Filloz]

ATTENTION NOTEHOLDERS!!! - PLEASE READ AND SHARE. WE HAVE HOPE.

As long as all Hyflux noteholders vote "No" , we can make bankers beg us to support because we have the numbers in Senior Class. We call the shots, according to our representative lawyer. He said we have a high chance to recover 100% if we stay united. If we say no, nothing can proceed.

As long as we stay as a team and reject, everyone will pacify us and give us back 100% + penalty interests. I am serious. Our Akin Gump lawyers had briefed those who attended. We dominate the votes in unsecured class. Bankers can continue to enjoy their banking relationship with Hyflux, but we just want our 100% back. It is really possible. Don't fall to SIAS's and Hyflux's lies and accept the haircuts. We need not settle for 25%.

PLEASE PASS THE MESSAGE. Many information in the media are merely speaking from the retail investors perspective. Do not fall for it.

 

[FuckOttoke]

LOL

how much hyflux 6% did he buy ?

 

[Filloz]

ATTENTION NOTEHOLDERS!!! - PLEASE READ AND SHARE. WE HAVE HOPE.

SIAS made public plead for us to support in the media yesterday. Do not fall for the lies in the media. We have about 200-300 of us. There are less than 100 bank and other unsecured creditors. We should trust our lawyers instead of SIAS.

There are so little of us, nobody in Singapore will care about us. We are majority in numbers but not in claim values, just a few hundred millions. Bankers just need to shed a bit of their claims and excess payouts from unmaterialized contingency liabilities, and we will get 100% back + interests. Our lawyer said Bankers will still get a fat payout, they will certainly agree to buy our support. The press & SIAS didn't tell you this. Our lawyers said SIAS is just there for show.

Our lawyers stand on our side. We cannot trust anyone in Singapore, trust our logic and senses. We do not need anyone to pity us and give us a few percent more because we have the strongest grounds to get everything back. The past one year has been very crazy and ALL 3 bonds were just 3 to 18 months from maturity.

We just need to stay united and reject. Our total claim values are not high, just 10-15% of total debts (including contingency liabilities), they will pacify us.

 

[rushifa666]

My god there are million dollar investors in hylux. They are not going to cave. Its the retarded middle class peasants that will. Dont get robbed

 

[Filloz]

That's Olivia, the scammer. Her accounts & valuations were faked.

LOL

how much hyflux 6% did he buy ?

 

[Filloz]

My god there are million dollar investors in hylux. They are not going to cave. Its the retarded middle class peasants that will. Dont get robbed

you mean the bondholders? Brother, in the first place we accepted 4.2%, 4.25%, 4.6% coupon instead of perps and prefs 6% because we wanted lower risk.

News just tell us to accept 25% and write off 75%. Our lawyer already explained that everything is favourable to us for full reimbursement, why no such guidance in the media?

Now this country only care about Olivia and retail investors. Since when the media talk about us noteholder? Some of us on the verge of bankruptcy.

 

[Filloz]

They will not care that 200-300 Singaporeans (noteholders) die.

We are 300! Don't die without a fight.
In actual fact, we have the best odds to get everything back. We stay united, nobody needs to die.

 

[FuckOttoke]

They will not care that 200-300 Singaporeans (noteholders) die.

We are 300! Don't die without a fight.
In actual fact, we have the best odds to get everything back. We stay united, nobody needs to die.

LOL

you didn't watch that movie ?

all 300 uplorry .

only the translator/traitor Ephialtes (Olivia?) survive .

 

[JustLikeThis]

ATTENTION NOTEHOLDERS!!! - PLEASE READ AND SHARE. WE HAVE HOPE.

SIAS made public plead for us to support in the media yesterday. Do not fall for the lies in the media. We have about 200-300 of us. There are less than 100 bank and other unsecured creditors. We should trust our lawyers instead of SIAS.

There are so little of us, nobody in Singapore will care about us. We are majority in numbers but not in claim values, just a few hundred millions. Bankers just need to shed a bit of their claims and excess payouts from unmaterialized contingency liabilities, and we will get 100% back + interests. Our lawyer said Bankers will still get a fat payout, they will certainly agree to buy our support. The press & SIAS didn't tell you this. Our lawyers said SIAS is just there for show.

Our lawyers stand on our side. We cannot trust anyone in Singapore, trust our logic and senses. We do not need anyone to pity us and give us a few percent more because we have the strongest grounds to get everything back. The past one year has been very crazy and ALL 3 bonds were just 3 to 18 months from maturity.

We just need to stay united and reject. Our total claim values are not high, just 10-15% of total debts (including contingency liabilities), they will pacify us.

Hyflux just announced that they lost $1.15 billion in the last FY. Noteholders, perps and pref have different objectives but at least our positions for NO vote should be the same at this moment. No reason to be bitter.

 

[JustLikeThis]

My god there are million dollar investors in hylux. They are not going to cave. Its the retarded middle class peasants that will. Dont get robbed

This is the objective of this thread. Even someone pointed out that Police Co-op suffered losses in Hyflux.

Why no action taken? The results tonight revealed that past accounts were cooked.

 

[JustLikeThis]

Uncle ah, i prove to you that you are biased ok?

In this post,
https://www.sammyboy.com/threads/hy...egulators-refusing-to-act.258403/post-2867459
you quoted this website.
http://www.hnworth.com/article/2019...de-spare-a-thought-for-vickers-hyflux-and-sgx

The same author, the same article shared our concerns, but you never highlight that he mentioned that the restructuring vote was super unfair to MTN bond holders. He highlighted that MTN bondholders accepted the 4% coupons in return for lower risks, and deserved to be paid fully, before the perps and prefs get a single cents. THIS IS BUSINESS LAW. THIS IS THE RULE.

"Senior bondholders will get paid less because subordinated debt holders will need to paid too which is a lesson in bond restructuring as opposed to company liquidation. We can bet they would be feeling the most irate given they had accepted lower coupons of 4+% percent for years against the 6% that subordinated bond holders were paid and totaling those up, maybe they could have gone for the riskier perpetual bond bet for less investment quantum?"

MTN BONDHOLDERS REJECT AND VOTE NO.
This restructuring broke the rules of bonds. You don't pretend you don't understand ok?

We have the majority in numbers under the Senior Unsecured Creditor Class. Notesholders call the shot. Our Accredited Investors (AI) are there in numbers to SAY NO to give HYFLUX and everyone will be at our mercy.

You really misunderstood me. I admit that I am a retail investor, not note holders.

But do you know that there are also many who bought in excess of hundreds of thousands in the 6% preference shares and perpetual bonds. The exposures of the note holders and retail investors are all huge. Lives ruined.

 

[JustLikeThis]

Bloomberg - Singapore Says Unable to Intervene in 'Commercial' Hyflux Matter
2019-03-01 04:04:09.592 GMT

By David Yong
[Bloomberg] - Singapore's authorities are unable to intervene in Hyflux's debt reorganization, saying the process is a commercial matter, according to a joint statement from the city-state's monetary authority and the Ministry of the Environment and Water Resources.

"As you are aware, all investments carry risks. Businesses can come under financial stress and are not immune to defaults," the statement state.

Empower shared the full reply earlier. Please see below.

Regulators telling retail investors that you lose money is your business.
You buy with your eyes wide open.

Dare to tell us no case even when there's so much false accounting involved.

 

[JustLikeThis]