Proposed stops for KL-S'pore high-speed rail - Nusajaya in Johor

[FHBH12]

Much to learn about different train systems for Singapore-KL High Speed Rail: Lui

Singapore and Malaysia also need to discuss deeper the regulatory, structural and operational issues, Singapore Transport Minister Lui Tuck Yew says.

By Monica Kotwani, Channel NewsAsia
POSTED: 22 May 2015 00:04

CAZAUX: There is still much to learn about the different train systems that can be used for the Singapore-Kuala Lumpur high speed rail, said Transport Minister Lui Tuck Yew to Singapore media on the sidelines of President Tony Tan Keng Yam's visit to the Cazaux Air Base on Thursday (May 21).

Singapore and Malaysia need to discuss deeper the regulatory, structural and operational issues, he added.

Mr Lui, who is also the Second Minister for Defence, is part of a Singapore delegation accompanying Dr Tan for his week-long State Visit in France.

Earlier in the week, French President Francois Hollande said there are opportunities for both countries to collaborate, such as in developing the Singapore-Kuala Lumpur high speed rail. Mr Lui also experienced first-hand France's high-speed trains when he travelled to Bordeaux with President Tan on Wednesday.

He said neither Singapore nor Malaysia is at the stage of selecting which train system or company to go with, and the process has to be systematic.

“Before we decide on the eventual system, we have to jointly decide it. We have to jointly decide on the selection of tenderers, the system itself. But I think that will come much later, because there are many structural issues that we have to decide on first,” said Mr Lui. “It's actually quite a complicated project, with many different permutations and many different possibilities. So we have to step through this systematically with the Malaysians, get an agreement before we can even put out a tender into the market.”

Another possible area for collaboration was in urban mobility. Mr Hollande spoke about expanding Paris' electric car-sharing service, Autolib, to Singapore.

Last year, the Economic Development Board and the Land Transport Authority sought submissions of proposals for an electric car-sharing model in Singapore. Mr Lui said a number of companies have responded, including the Bollore Group, which operates Autolib.

"When I was in Paris, I had a short meeting with a few of their people, just to update each other on how it's progressing. I think it offers good possibilities, but EDB and LTA will have to evaluate on proposals they have received and hopefully sometime around the end of the year, we will be ready to see whether we can take another step forward,” Mr Lui said.

- CNA/dl

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/much-to-learn-about/1863726.html

 

[snowbird]

Much to learn about different train systems for Singapore-KL High Speed Rail: Lui

Singapore and Malaysia also need to discuss deeper the regulatory, structural and operational issues, Singapore Transport Minister Lui Tuck Yew says.

By Monica Kotwani, Channel NewsAsia
POSTED: 22 May 2015 00:04

CAZAUX: There is still much to learn about the different train systems that can be used for the Singapore-Kuala Lumpur high speed rail, said Transport Minister Lui Tuck Yew to Singapore media on the sidelines of President Tony Tan Keng Yam's visit to the Cazaux Air Base on Thursday (May 21).

Singapore and Malaysia need to discuss deeper the regulatory, structural and operational issues, he added.

Mr Lui, who is also the Second Minister for Defence, is part of a Singapore delegation accompanying Dr Tan for his week-long State Visit in France.

Earlier in the week, French President Francois Hollande said there are opportunities for both countries to collaborate, such as in developing the Singapore-Kuala Lumpur high speed rail. Mr Lui also experienced first-hand France's high-speed trains when he travelled to Bordeaux with President Tan on Wednesday.

He said neither Singapore nor Malaysia is at the stage of selecting which train system or company to go with, and the process has to be systematic.

“Before we decide on the eventual system, we have to jointly decide it. We have to jointly decide on the selection of tenderers, the system itself. But I think that will come much later, because there are many structural issues that we have to decide on first,” said Mr Lui. “It's actually quite a complicated project, with many different permutations and many different possibilities. So we have to step through this systematically with the Malaysians, get an agreement before we can even put out a tender into the market.”

Another possible area for collaboration was in urban mobility. Mr Hollande spoke about expanding Paris' electric car-sharing service, Autolib, to Singapore.

Last year, the Economic Development Board and the Land Transport Authority sought submissions of proposals for an electric car-sharing model in Singapore. Mr Lui said a number of companies have responded, including the Bollore Group, which operates Autolib.

"When I was in Paris, I had a short meeting with a few of their people, just to update each other on how it's progressing. I think it offers good possibilities, but EDB and LTA will have to evaluate on proposals they have received and hopefully sometime around the end of the year, we will be ready to see whether we can take another step forward,” Mr Lui said.

- CNA/dl

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/much-to-learn-about/1863726.html

From what Mr Lui said, the possibility of starting on the HSR will be delayed much further because major issues like regulatory, structural and operational matters are still not settled 2 years later and after much discussion.
Only after these issues are settled than they can work on the planning, engineering detailing and the eventual system to use which may take another couple of years.
This is a political correct statement to say that the delay will probably be for a really long time.

Actually, I think SG is also not too keen to proceed with the project at this point in time when MY's political situation is quite unstable with a possibility of having a new PM anytime soon.
Whether the PM stays or having a new PM or maybe even having a new government may change everything.

 

[Vohkster]

"You mentioned operating model is too complex, let China take care."
- yes...outsource is very common model...dont have core competency...not inline with main business nature...need 3rd neutral party in between the politic...or whatever reason...outsource...china is one outsource partner...many other alternate choice if china too busy with spratlys.

"You mentioned investment n operating costs, China will take care."
- yes...financial loan, bond, share...unless financing approach these days....china can be the creditor....or many more out there...if china cant comprehend to handle one more matter than just spratlys.

"You say China can run the system for 25 years there is no risk to my or sg."
- yes...concession model or hybrid of that model...very common as well...china is potential but maybe not of national interest (or china too focus on spratlys until no eyesight for business deal)...cos a monopoly in one of the kind transport mode and route of the day....plenty locals entrepreneurship enterprise would spot the long term investment...

"Now who in the right mind would do such charity? Esp so for big brother China?"
- again what makes you think it's charity?


"You may be right to say I have no data to back up my wildest fantasy that China is aiming to be the regions Tai Kor. Look at how aggressive they have been at the spratlys islands. Look at how they have signed oil for RMB agreement with Russia. Even now the viets n Philippines are begging the U.S. to return to set up bases in their countries when not too long ago their govts passed laws to chase the buggers off their shores. The US had long maintained supremacy by controlling political , financial and military superiority in this region. Our Ah Tiong brothers are merely emulating their tried and tested formulas."
- by me mentioned China you have completely missed the points of business solution model practice everyday by institutions and enterprise everywhere. This whole block statement there is what uncle talk at kopitiam....deviate, anti constructive, pointless to the topic, full intend to push whatever direction just to make path ahead difficult and above all negativity without cause....nothing get done with negative ppl....

Chill bro. I get it you are in awe of China's vast reserves n tech know how. While you are still prostrated on the ground , do spend some time to think about it. If china was truly your one stop solution as you have so succinctly described, we wouldn't still be here having this conversation. There is a difference being negative and being cynical of which I am of the later. I don't believe in free lunches in this world. I believe that in life everything we do we have to strategize if we want certain outcomes in our plans. but there is much going around behind the scenes of which the signs are there and it's up to us to recognize n dot the lines to connect to see the big picture. But I guess It's good that people still have dreams and believe in a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

But I digress. I too hope that the HSR will meet its savior n the project gets done n dusted. we can then move on to better topics like watching paint dry.

 

[snowbird]

KTM since British colonial times has been running services on meter-gauge tracks. Meter gauge tracks were basically designed at least during those days for industrial use and in Malaysia’s case — to transport tin.

However we failed to modernize and completely neglected our rail services in favour of road transport and continued using these meter gauges even for our passenger services.

In most parts of the world passenger services started running on standard or broad gauge.

To achieve decent transit times between KL and Penang etc, double tracking on a meter gauge will be slow and clearly will not be competitive. Obviously this is a half measure as it seems the project is trying to avoid investing in rolling stock as would be the case if standard or broad gauge are adopted instead.

Simply put you cannot run a train fast if your tracks are not broad enough for stability at high speeds. For you to achieve speed and stability you need standard or broad gauge.

Actually I was just thinking out loud as why didn't they consider to upgrade and modernised the current system instead of spending many times more to build a new line.
Yes, I'm aware that the current line from Woodlands to Butterworth is a metre guage line, hence the suggestion of upgrading and modernisation.
In UK, the rail network is so massive that when they had to choose between building new electrified broad guage lines or upgrading current system, the chose the latter because of the huge budget constraint and limited land for new line especially within the main cities especially London.
The Fast Train which are moving at 200km/hr in UK are actually running on standard guage and not on the broad guage rail for HSR.
In fact, in KL, several inter city lines were already modernised into double tracking and electrified with modern coaches running.
I was puzzled as why didn't they spend some money and time to investigate and study the implications and advantages, if any, for just modernising the system instead of constructing a brand new one.
Anyway, this is still MY's problem as the line is almost 90% on their side and SG still has to build that new terminal station/CIQ and that 20km of rail line.

 

[Vohkster]

Its already 2 years since the first joint announcement and millions$$ spent on feasibility studies, I'm very sure both since already have some idea on the sustainability of the HSR.
I am also quite certain the prelim results obtained were quite negative.
The link between SG and KL is already served by so many mode of transport - by air, rail, buses, road(driving & motorbike) and many options for each type.
Having the HSR is indeed a luxury and a new option to travel while without it makes little difference.

The HSR was projected as a national pride by both sides and it will be the last thing that both side wanted the system be operated on a concession model!
This is especially so for MY when employment of certain group of people is top priority, more so that the system will be employing tens of thousands from top executives to train drivers.
However, when 2 nations jointly runs the system, there will be many issues need to be sorted out and agreed upon and its no easy task especially when the HSR is about 90% in MY and 10% in SG.
China and also Japan had shown keen interest to develop and build the system for simple reason - provide vast employment opportunity in their home country and of cos also chance to show off their advance technologies overseas.
China just started the AIIB to provide loans to countries to improve their infrastructure and this HSR just came in timely.

Financing to build the HSR is only an one off investment, so what if both need to spend billions$$ after all, it can be amotised over the years or decades.
Its the operation and maintence cost that is worrying.
Once the projected ridership can't materialize or worse, way below projection, the books will be in the red all the way, month after month, years after years.
The Taiwan HSR had this experience - massive losses for years!
Both side can introduce tyrannical policies to discourage people from using other mode of transport and use the HSR like introducing higher toll hikes, reducing buses, levies, special taxes, etc.
Hence both sides have to be very cautious, spending money to build is not so much a problem but the running of the system could be a long term problem that cannot be stop unilaterally.

Lol. You worry too much brother. China is a one stop solution to all the above. If it's not profitable in the long term, I am sure China will be more than happy to disburse unlimited loans with no strings attached. We should follow the Greeks.

 

[snowbird]

Lol. You worry too much brother. China is a one stop solution to all the above. If it's not profitable in the long term, I am sure China will be more than happy to disburse unlimited loans with no strings attached. We should follow the Greeks.

But our neighbour is already fast becoming Greek!

 

[Funniman]

Got this from another website but take it with a large pinch of salt.

 

[snowbird]

With the revamp of the Malaysian Airlines, the new CEO however identified some of the things that help to bring the company down.
Beside an overly bloated staff strength, huge overtime claims as much as base pay, over-priced contracts and salaries...........with some senior executives earning more than RM100,000 p/m probably for cronies for doing nothing.
Over-priced contracts shows wide spread corruption at all levels.
What if they run and manage the future HSR with the same culture and the same way???
HORRORS!!!

http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/...-culprit-in-mas-financial-drain-says-new-boss

 

[westman]

Game over for HSR?

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/mobile/singapore/singapore-surprised-by/1927124.html

 

[xixxix]

Game over for HSR?

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/mobile/singapore/singapore-surprised-by/1927124.html

Sigh... Malaysia really is not a place for investment... Good luck Country Garden and R&F...

 

[Manhattan]

Sigh... Malaysia really is not a place for investment... Good luck Country Garden and R&F...

Agree. Especially for foreign developer, easily taken in by the 'official' news and invest blindly. Look at R&F, commit so much based on rts news...haiz.
Japanese developer looks smarter, partner with local big player. Even that, they look see look see for 2 years before committing. Local big player will tell you cannot depend on the gov for the infra, that's why they develop township, everything including the drains under their control. Some local developer even build their own transport system like the BRT.

 

[snowbird]

Game over for HSR?

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/mobile/singapore/singapore-surprised-by/1927124.html

Please take note that in MY, anyone can make any announcement on anything.
In the report, that was not exactly an announcement but rather that CEO of Ministry of Transport expressing his personal view and preferance for the termination point for the HSR in MY's side.
Anything on bilateral agreement cannot be decided by him and announce by him, he takes order from his Minister or PM.
But the HSR is further and further away with the rapid sliding of the RM.

 

[sgcount]

Don't really have good feeling about the way the MY side is playing the game. With it, and the weakening RM, I see Iskandar declining also. HSR and RTS are game changers. Now it looks to me that RTS is as good as scrapped, while HSR is just a dream.

A colleague asked me: "Why are you Singaporeans so bullish about Iskandar? It'll flop. Or rather, even if you're optimistic, it'll take donkey years to even move slightly. You should know how the way MY politicians work. HSR? Haha... maybe it won't even be ready in 2030!"

My colleague is a Malaysian.

 

[RedsYNWA]

Well if one reads the news articles in totality, it seems that Lui Tuck Yew is making a mountain out of a molehill, and using the SG media to cover his ass, in typical SAF pattern. Much ado about nothing from what I read. No wonder Lui has been taken out of MFA and into MINDEF, which probably suits him better.

 

[Tekkun]

Agreed.
Anyone can say anything and even the Sultan is commenting on his preference on RTS. But these are just preferences.
Sometimes people say things for political brownie points. That's how Malaysian politics work.
These projects are under Federal jurisdictions. Only Putrajaya and Singapore can decide, no one else.

 

[freekazoid]

Agree. Especially for foreign developer, easily taken in by the 'official' news and invest blindly. Look at R&F, commit so much based on rts news...haiz.
Japanese developer looks smarter, partner with local big player. Even that, they look see look see for 2 years before committing. Local big player will tell you cannot depend on the gov for the infra, that's why they develop township, everything including the drains under their control. Some local developer even build their own transport system like the BRT.

This great comment....invest in product and product maker.

Dont invest based on gov....when crazy gov dudes say this and that....we enjoy the show. Life will be so boring without msian politic entertainment

 

[RedsYNWA]

"Singapore has proposed that the domestic transit HSR service, which will stop at the six stations in between Singapore and KL, be operated separately from the express non-stop HSR services between KL and Singapore, MOT said. This will give Malaysia autonomy over the domestic transit services to serve its domestic needs, it added. - See more at: http://news.asiaone.com/news/singapore/malaysias-transport-agency-says-ceo-misquoted-high-speed-rail#sthash.jua2SmI5.dpuf"

What are they smoking over at MOT?? MY would be a fool if it were to agree to terminate the non-express service at Nusajaya. Then how to expect the Seremban, Malacca, Bau Pahat pple etc to cross over to SG? Lui Tuck Yew makes for an extremely naive 2nd Minister for Foreign Affairs!

 

[Ambulance]

halo ft kia jiu hu pi pi tan singapo lui si boh

 

[Rocka]

Game over for HSR?

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/mobile/singapore/singapore-surprised-by/1927124.html

Not too fast... here comes the sandiwara... as usual this SPAD guy denied it and said he was miss-quoted..
http://news.asiaone.com/news/singapore/end-high-speed-rail-jb-kl-agency-says-it-was-misquoted

That is why as I said before, the HSR and RTS threads can be closed down as nothing 'tangible' news worth to consider really seriously.