Property News

[Tekkun]

Yep that's how we started, we also in manufacturing and buy sell factories in the recession bound 80s, factory no 24 also we buy, later sell also make money. Those are the glory days in the early to mid 90s.

The best years in Malaysia gone liao...in the early 2000s is the best. Even in London, the good days also passed 3 years ago liao. The trick now is to find a new hunting ground.

 

[sgcount]

Tekkun & xebay11,

Can tell you are both experienced property investors. May I ask your opinion on the outlook of Iskandar (Medini) condos in the next 5-10 years?

I have bought a condo in Medini. But my calculations as well as making a trip down to the area have convinced me that even 10 years later, I most likely will be making a loss on my investment.

The immediate fear is of course the lack of rental and future buyers. As I have no intention to stay there due to the inconvenience of traveling in and out of SG, I fear the idea of having my unit left vacant but I'm paying the monthly servicing fees and bank loan. And when I want to let go of the property, there is no buyer.

My loan calculation shows that within 5 years, if I cannot get any rental, the additional damage to my pocket will be more than a whopping S$50k. Even if I could get rental, very likely I will have to fork out a few hundred $ to top up. Given the huge oversupply of condos everywhere in JB and elsewhere in Iskandar, I also can't see how the property prices can rise much 10 years later.

What are your views? Please shoot them here. I prefer the real honest feelings. Rather have the pain coming now and decide on my next move than pretend there is no problem.

Appreciate it and thanks guys.

 

[Zelphon]

Is medini that bad?
Isn't Gleneagles Hospital just opened??

Well, i bough a unit at R&F and i am excited over its prospect despite all the doom and gloom..

 

[Tekkun]

Juz my 2cents,

Next 5-10yrs is not enough for Medini to hit Critical Mass. Unable sustain a population big enough for good occupant rates/buoyant resale market.
My humble opinion is Medini at 2025 will be decent but not Buzzing… Perhaps another 10yrs needed to reach critical Mass in 2035 Up…

If ur committed condo in Medini is giving u sleepless nights daily or lots of stress & doubts affecting your life,
cut loss & move on might not be a bad idea as your Health could be suffering which to me is worth so much more than Dollar & cents.

Hopefully those 2 Gurus u seek could advice u better.

Cheers

Sgcount, pls check your pm. Hopefully it could be of any help.

Good luck.

 

[FHBH12]

Please don't say can easily afford, my two cents like bullock cart wheels. Yes what you say sounds nice, timing is the key now.

JB landed properties require lots of renovation and maintenance to look good and live comfortably and safely. Thanks to proximity to SG, these costs are quite high.

Due to RM weakening and oversupply, my forecast is a JB property that is purchased now may not appreciate in the next few years.

If you are seriously considering one, you need to treat it as a consumption rather than investment item. After getting one, you might get jeered by those who don't appreciate a JB property.

JB property is simply not for investment at this point unless the developer offers a 10-20% cut on recent initial launch price to help you hedge against forex loss. Otherwise just wait for firesales next year.

Given your property portfolio and likely usage, a small condo might be the best choice if you are not keen to spend your weekend cleaning your landed property or cutting grasses.

 

[Investor888]

For ppple who have doubts about Medini, one thing for sure if that tenants, workers, new students and staff are forever entering the place to find job, work and place to study and live. Many reach Nusajaya with a job and staying in hotels while finding place.

My last stay at Jens ( my 20th time this year ) made me realise this place is booming slower than in the past but it is BOOMING while Singapore is degenerating by itself with the record new HDB new launches. Prices in Singapore are to remain subdued or dropped for at least the next 8-15 years

 

[Investor888]

I made less $200k Sing dollars when I first invested in my property. My thinking is the same as many "investors" here. They see a place empty, devoid of life 1-2 years after TOP and they gan cheong and sell. I used to be like that. I learnt heavy lesson when the unit I sold to a competitor went up in price by another $200k Sing dollars in just 3 years time. Till now I still cant get over it.

The best to look at your property and to do a reassessment is to do it 3 years AFTER TOP. in most instances here I see many poor or noob investors who are planning to sell just because the SPORE govt kept harping of the gloomy outlook. Lets not cheat ourselves here and leave political differences aside. Do you really think you can see POSITIVE and GOOD news about Iskandar in Straits Time? Why would SG govt push investors to Iskandar?

Sadly in this internet age, whatever LKY has done ( brainwashing via SPH ) is no longer that effective. People drive to Iskandar to feel for themselves.

My clients from China went over to Iparc after some agents recommended him a semi detached 25 year leasehold left for S$3 million in Tuas. He go blown away when he reached this industrial near PTP because the selling price is FREEHOLD and can park 20 cars and bigger in space. The cost? S$600k. 5 times difference OMG! He snapped up two units for his rapid expansion. Savings of almost S$5 million.

Like many shrewd investors, he loved Iskandar. Everything is cheap and good. People are moving in and not moving out. Sadly, investors are moving out of Singapore.

 

[Investor888]

If the cost of staying and treatment at Medini Gleneagels is indeed that much cheaper than in Singapore, water finds it own level and Spore hospitals will be doomed. They should already have foreseen it, given the lousy amenties anda low class standard and super long waiting times. I cant forget the scene when I visited my mum in Tan Tock Seng and saw her lying on a bed ALONG THE CORRIDOR. Its like in Rwanda. Singapore is getting more and more low class.

The recent visit by Xi Jin Ping of China should make him feel like he is in another province of China as there are easily 1 million PRC in Singapore RIGHT NOW. Indeed, he is a happy man.

Is medini that bad?
Isn't Gleneagles Hospital just opened??

Well, i bough a unit at R&F and i am excited over its prospect despite all the doom and gloom..

 

[Tekkun]

I made less $200k Sing dollars when I first invested in my property. My thinking is the same as many "investors" here. They see a place empty, devoid of life 1-2 years after TOP and they gan cheong and sell. I used to be like that. I learnt heavy lesson when the unit I sold to a competitor went up in price by another $200k Sing dollars in just 3 years time. Till now I still cant get over it.

The best to look at your property and to do a reassessment is to do it 3 years AFTER TOP. in most instances here I see many poor or noob investors who are planning to sell just because the SPORE govt kept harping of the gloomy outlook. Lets not cheat ourselves here and leave political differences aside. Do you really think you can see POSITIVE and GOOD news about Iskandar in Straits Time? Why would SG govt push investors to Iskandar?

Sadly in this internet age, whatever LKY has done ( brainwashing via SPH ) is no longer that effective. People drive to Iskandar to feel for themselves.

My clients from China went over to Iparc after some agents recommended him a semi detached 25 year leasehold left for S$3 million in Tuas. He go blown away when he reached this industrial near PTP because the selling price is FREEHOLD and can park 20 cars and bigger in space. The cost? S$600k. 5 times difference OMG! He snapped up two units for his rapid expansion. Savings of almost S$5 million.

Like many shrewd investors, he loved Iskandar. Everything is cheap and good. People are moving in and not moving out. Sadly, investors are moving out of Singapore.

Essentially there are 2 type of investors in financial terms.

One is the type who has spare cash and buy into properties for mid or long term basis. This group is not bothered about short term uncertainties and able to weather the storms. The other type is the one who doesn't have enough and buy into properties for opportunistic gains. This group is most vulnerable and any small winds of change will impact them directly.

It is important to know that the fundamentals of these 2 group are entire different. Therefore the train of thoughts is very diverse and sometimes can lead to conflicts. One do not know where the other group is coming from.

My personal advice is:

If you cannot afford to lose, please do not get in. "Cannot to lose" here means borrowed downpayment. You cannot afford to lose this deposit as it will impact your persoanl life. It is russian roulette. Very dangerous and stressful. When panic hits us, it is useful to sit down and pen all the criteria and findings on paper. Humans get very confused when everything is stored in one big database brainwave wise. It is just spin round and round without rebooting. In the end, the cpu unit get frozen and you do not know what to do.

I remembered when Teega was launched, young buyers in the queue said, buy two and when it is completed, sell one and get the other one free. He actually bought 2 units. I had priority booking information emailed to me the night before launching and yet I did not buy. Reason is I could not get my choice unit. I do not buy for the sake of buying or buying out of greed. It is good to be planted firmly on the ground in this game.

 

[Tekkun]

An engine in a factory failed.
The owners tried one expert after another, but none of them could figure how to fix the engine.
Then they brought in an old man who had been fixing engines since he was young.
He carried a large bag of tools with him, and when he arrived, he immediately went to work.
He inspected the engine very carefully, top to bottom.
Two of the owners were there, watching this man, hoping he would know what to do.
After looking things over, the old man reached into his bag and pulled out a small hammer.
He gently tapped something.
Instantly, the engine lurched into life.
He carefully put his hammer away.
The engine was fixed!
A week later, the owners received a bill from the old man for RM 10,000.
"What?!" the owners exclaimed. "He hardly did anything!"
So they wrote the old man a note saying, "Please send us an itemized bill."
The man sent a bill that read:
Tapping with a hammer.. ....... . RM 2/-
Knowing where to tap.......... RM 9,998/-
Effort is important, but knowing where to make an effort in your life, makes all the difference.
"Life doesn't change in ONE MINUTE, but taking decision after thinking for ONE MINUTE can change life."

 

[Frodo]

An engine in a factory failed.
The owners tried one expert after another, but none of them could figure how to fix the engine.
Then they brought in an old man who had been fixing engines since he was young.
He carried a large bag of tools with him, and when he arrived, he immediately went to work.
He inspected the engine very carefully, top to bottom.
Two of the owners were there, watching this man, hoping he would know what to do.
After looking things over, the old man reached into his bag and pulled out a small hammer.
He gently tapped something.
Instantly, the engine lurched into life.
He carefully put his hammer away.
The engine was fixed!
A week later, the owners received a bill from the old man for RM 10,000.
"What?!" the owners exclaimed. "He hardly did anything!"
So they wrote the old man a note saying, "Please send us an itemized bill."
The man sent a bill that read:
Tapping with a hammer.. ....... . RM 2/-
Knowing where to tap.......... RM 9,998/-
Effort is important, but knowing where to make an effort in your life, makes all the difference.
"Life doesn't change in ONE MINUTE, but taking decision after thinking for ONE MINUTE can change life."

Very funny!

 

[Frodo]

Absolutely even now me and my wife don't see my kids except meal times. All of them in their own rooms. Don't get a big house. You will end up as a house slave just like myself and I go up to the empty 3rd floor maybe twice a month. Slowly slowly the kids will leave home. And why did I get such a house? One word. GREED.

For us is getting more bang for your bucks, buying the biggest and new unit possible with the lowest price possible just above the minimum sum, and with as much freebies thrown in as possible.

 

[Frodo]

Try a 7 rooms 7 toilets unit and you will know what I mean by greed.

I would love a 7 room property.

 

[Frodo]

Please don't say can easily afford, my two cents like bullock cart wheels. Yes what you say sounds nice, timing is the key now.

Wah, $2.6m still say 2 cents? In comparison my wheels are mouse wheels....

 

[Frodo]

Like I say, recession is the best time to make money in properties.

Provided also got money to make money, ya?

 

[Frodo]

JB landed properties require lots of renovation and maintenance to look good and live comfortably and safely. Thanks to proximity to SG, these costs are quite high.

Due to RM weakening and oversupply, my forecast is a JB property that is purchased now may not appreciate in the next few years.

If you are seriously considering one, you need to treat it as a consumption rather than investment item. After getting one, you might get jeered by those who don't appreciate a JB property.

JB property is simply not for investment at this point unless the developer offers a 10-20% cut on recent initial launch price to help you hedge against forex loss. Otherwise just wait for firesales next year.

Given your property portfolio and likely usage, a small condo might be the best choice if you are not keen to spend your weekend cleaning your landed property or cutting grasses.

Heard that Green Haven condo giving up to 30% rebate....anyone can verify?

 

[Tekkun]

You no need declare so fast. I am sure yr home minister got a lot.

 

[Frodo]

Essentially there are 2 type of investors in financial terms.

One is the type who has spare cash and buy into properties for mid or long term basis. This group is not bothered about short term uncertainties and able to weather the storms. The other type is the one who doesn't have enough and buy into properties for opportunistic gains. This group is most vulnerable and any small winds of change will impact them directly.

It is important to know that the fundamentals of these 2 group are entire different. Therefore the train of thoughts is very diverse and sometimes can lead to conflicts. One do not know where the other group is coming from.

My personal advice is:

If you cannot afford to lose, please do not get in. "Cannot to lose" here means borrowed downpayment. You cannot afford to lose this deposit as it will impact your persoanl life. It is russian roulette. Very dangerous and stressful. When panic hits us, it is useful to sit down and pen all the criteria and findings on paper. Humans get very confused when everything is stored in one big database brainwave wise. It is just spin round and round without rebooting. In the end, the cpu unit get frozen and you do not know what to do.

I remembered when Teega was launched, young buyers in the queue said, buy two and when it is completed, sell one and get the other one free. He actually bought 2 units. I had priority booking information emailed to me the night before launching and yet I did not buy. Reason is I could not get my choice unit. I do not buy for the sake of buying or buying out of greed. It is good to be planted firmly on the ground in this game.

I don't fit the investor profile, and also don't have any down payment money to throw...so we bought a condo unit that gave 20% rebate and with 80% bank loan we did not pay anything upfront other than the booking fee that is refundable.

 

[sgcount]

Juz my 2cents,

Next 5-10yrs is not enough for Medini to hit Critical Mass. Unable sustain a population big enough for good occupant rates/buoyant resale market.
My humble opinion is Medini at 2025 will be decent but not Buzzing… Perhaps another 10yrs needed to reach critical Mass in 2035 Up…

If ur committed condo in Medini is giving u sleepless nights daily or lots of stress & doubts affecting your life,
cut loss & move on might not be a bad idea as your Health could be suffering which to me is worth so much more than Dollar & cents.

Hopefully those 2 Gurus u seek could advice u better.

Cheers

This was exactly how I think now. But I was too rash before buying and didn't consider this. I thought with all the plans coming up in Medini, how can it fail in terms of having demand for rental and selling it away in future? What I failed to realize among many factors are: Medini has too much land, it will take a long time for everything to complete building, and worst of all, the supply of condos is far too high compared to the demand.

Yes, maybe 2035 and beyond... we might see Medini only moving. But I think that's too long a time line for any investment to make sense. Beyond 4 years, it's hard to predict what will happen. At 10 years, it's likely purely speculation. Anything beyond that is just taking a very huge risk as anything can happen. There could be no overall gain and it's still a question if the property can be disposed of if needed.

 

[sgcount]

Essentially there are 2 type of investors in financial terms.

One is the type who has spare cash and buy into properties for mid or long term basis. This group is not bothered about short term uncertainties and able to weather the storms. The other type is the one who doesn't have enough and buy into properties for opportunistic gains. This group is most vulnerable and any small winds of change will impact them directly.

It is important to know that the fundamentals of these 2 group are entire different. Therefore the train of thoughts is very diverse and sometimes can lead to conflicts. One do not know where the other group is coming from.

My personal advice is:

If you cannot afford to lose, please do not get in. "Cannot to lose" here means borrowed downpayment. You cannot afford to lose this deposit as it will impact your persoanl life. It is russian roulette. Very dangerous and stressful. When panic hits us, it is useful to sit down and pen all the criteria and findings on paper. Humans get very confused when everything is stored in one big database brainwave wise. It is just spin round and round without rebooting. In the end, the cpu unit get frozen and you do not know what to do.

I remembered when Teega was launched, young buyers in the queue said, buy two and when it is completed, sell one and get the other one free. He actually bought 2 units. I had priority booking information emailed to me the night before launching and yet I did not buy. Reason is I could not get my choice unit. I do not buy for the sake of buying or buying out of greed. It is good to be planted firmly on the ground in this game.

This is a good observation on the 2 groups. But I think there is a middle group which I belong to. Those that can afford to pay the monthly instalment and hold on to the property for as long as possible but yet not rich to the point of writing off the Iskandar property as a bad investment (which the 1st group can due to their higher financial wealth).

I'm in the position now of question if it makes sense any more to hold on to the property and pay my monthly bank loan+condo maintenance fees of S$1300 when I'm not staying there and in the worst case scenario, when there is no tenant at all for the next many years to come.

If I can summarise, based on what I've learnt so far, buying Iskandar properties (especially condos) is safe only if buyers wants to live in them or they have enough money to not feel the pinch in case they lose a few hundred thousand dollars. For investment, it is usually a No-no or unless one is willing to take on very high risks.